UPDATED FOR 2024. Last week, Lovefraud posted a letter from “Cybil,” I did not choose this guy. Here’s more of her experience about “things people say.”
I’ll call this, “Things people say, part II.” This is the other one that bugs me: “You’re paranoid.” I always have a good 24 hours of self-doubt before I realize they’re the ones that are nuts, not me. I know a lot more about what crazy stuff is out there in the world than your average, never-tangled-with-a-sociopath human does.
I just went to a seminar of a national expert on how domestic violence leads to murder, especially for women. Over and over he said, “Trust your instinct.” He told the audience to take women seriously when they have these stories (like those on this blog) and that if she is a co-worker you should elevate these stories to security for everyone’s safety because it could easily become a workplace shooting.
Paranoid
But continually I have had people in my life say I am paranoid since my ex came into my life. HE used to tell me I was paranoid. Crazy. Hysterical. Depressed. I wasn’t. I was living in a psychological and physical war zone. People who survive sociopaths have survived wars. The people on the blog are war-buddies.
The funny part is watching how the people who told me I was paranoid act when their blinders fall off. Like my parents, every few weeks another blinder falls off. When the death threats came in, they were in shock and they never said, “You told us so,” but they started taking things a bit more seriously and realized that when they told me I was paranoid that he was going to kill me (Well, yes, he hit you, he lied to you, he had an arrest record, but he’d never kill you. He’d get in trouble. He’s not that stupid), they were wrong. The sad part is watching them go back into denial as the “living with death threats” thing starts to become routine.
A strange event happened the other day. I called the police. My parents say: You know that was just a random thing that happened. You’re paranoid.
Really?
Responsibility
I am going to start telling people in my life, you are not allowed to tell me I’m paranoid or that I chose this guy. Not only is it horribly deflating, it goes to the heart of what I am healing from and getting stronger by.
When people tell me “You chose him,” they are telling me I have to take more responsibility, but taking more than my share of responsibility for what happened is what kept me in the bad relationship longer than I should have been. Because I started to believe it was my fault, because he told me it was my fault. If I could just fix me, then maybe he wouldn’t have to get so crazy and mean. It took me several years of dangerous experimenting with every “me” I could be, to realize it wasn’t ME. Yeah, I don’t have a problem taking responsibility and I don’t need help taking more.
When people tell me “You’re paranoid,” they are really questioning my instinct and telling me not to listen to it. I am a year and a half out from living with an abuser and a gaslighter; I am largely over the hyper-alert period. I know what I feel. Doubting that was also what kept me in the bad place: Maybe he is telling the truth, maybe he did do that for my own good, maybe I am being too judgmental, maybe I should give him another chance. Not doubting my instinct to walk out that last time was what let me walk out!!!!
I’m not going back there. Not even in a mental sense.
Learn more: Beyond betrayal — how to recover from the trauma
Lovefraud originally posted this story on Nov. 27, 2010.
The sociopathic MO in three easy steps
One,-Ive totally lost the plot here! Ive lost the original blog I sent you,{re my FB page} I did go back twice and checked it, its now open to everyone,{it says} on all files a nd pics and folders. So you should be able to access the file with my portraits in it.Good Luck!!
Love,
Gem.XX
Oxy,
yeah, selective memory. when I wanted to kill myself because the exP was using psychological warfare on me (PsyOPs), I remember thinking, “gee, I only feel this way around you, hmmm… is that a clue? Your ex-gf killed herself, hmmm… is that a clue?” and I realized that he was the problem. Thank God for selective memory at that time, because in fact, MY PARENTS had made me feel like killing myself at age 15. Instead, I ran away. This really speaks to a wtf moment. WHAT kind of relationship makes you want to die? HELLO!? BUT I had forgotten about it for years…and thank God that I did, because, in the state I was in, it would have clouded the issue and I would not have beeen able to see that there can be more than ONE sociopath in your life at that point.
Sky, sweetheart, you almost had me in tears!Your last few posts have been awesome! I agree with Oxy, you are coming on so fast!! About that doll, how I wish I could buy one for you!
And give it to that little girl who was deprived of it, so young!
{{HUGS< and Blessings!}}
Mama gem.XX
Hi Gem. Did you get my E-mail on Friday? If not, I’m doing something wrong and will need to ask for help.(yuck. I don’t like to.)
I read your above post, and sense from it that you did not get it. I’m sorry, Gem. Please don’t take it personally, I just don’t get technology and I find it kind of frustrating. Believe me, it has nothing to do with you.
Oh, and Gem, I’d love to see your paintings…how can I access the whole FB thing?
Skylar and One-step, your conversation above about relationships with parents brought to mind two things, from my own child-hood.
I don’t think my parents were cruel or unkind to me, or meant to stunt me for any malicious reason, although I do think they each had there own issues. For example:
My mom never seemed to respond to my success storys. If I had done something that I was proud of, or if I had succeded at something, or even if I seemed to be content and happy, she was kind of indifferent or distracted or something. On the other hand, if I was unhappy, or feeling upset, or hurt, or if I was in some kind of trouble, or I was worried about something, she was always present and available…as she should have been as my mother.
And, whenever anyone asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up and I answered various things, there was always an objection from one or both of my parents…there was always a reason why that wasn’t a good choice.
I wanted to be a ballerina…no, my Mom said…it’s a hell of a life, you work yourself to death, and you can’t do it forever, you get old. Okay, I’ll be a teacher. No. my mom said, you’ll learn to dis-like children. Well, I decided I wanted to be a police sketch artist. No my dad said. We have no use for them here, in this small town…you’d have to move away. And so on….
Now why would they do that?
Did those things contribute to my problems with identity? With dependancy issues? With fears of being successfull?
Probably. Did they know they were hurting me? No. I don’t think so, but they had issues surrounding envy and dependancy as well.
I understand the sadness, because I feel sad when I think of my parents, too.
I think you both have said that you are interested in the idea of scape-goating and are studying up a bit on it. I can’t seem to post the link but I read a great essay on line, entitled , “The dynamics of Scape-goating in Small Groups”. Google it if you are interested. It’s very good and a lot can be gleaned from it, even though I think its talking specifically about small therapy groups. It helped me see the dynamic clearly when I was dealing with my daughter and son-in Law.
Kathy, I had to go back to what you wrote earlier and re-read all your posts. Stuff about anger and boundaries and whether this is about what is happening now or stuff that happened in the past.
I like who my parents are now, but they’re different from what I saw growing up. So when I do the exercise, watching them on TV, I would have to do it twice. One for now and one for 30-40 years ago. Then you said to pay attention to what I feel. I feel WTF?
It wasn’t just the doll that they took, from first grade on, they would also force me to do her homework, whenever she demanded it. She used the pity ploy saying it was too hard. I ended up doing her senior thesis in college! Of course by that time I was so thoroughly trained that I just volunteered when she looked overwhelmed. She got an A- and a note:”did you write this?” In my defense, I thought that if I read the book “Don Quixote” and wrote her a paper with real insight, that she would LEARN something. LOL. Right. She has no interest in anything except money. She has said so many times.
I suspect that what is keeping them being nice to me is their fear that I will air the dirty laundry to our many relatives. Everyone who knows us pretty much sees the veneer of middle class success. (only a few know about the brother in the basement) I’m pretty good at communicating my thoughts and despite being a bit of a loner, people gravitate toward me and I have no problem bonding with long lost cousins or even strangers. When my sister was suspended from the high school drill team for spreading gossip, I came to her defense with a scathing letter to the coach, chastising him for lacking empathy. (It was a Catholic high school) The words made the secretary cry. My parents were so impressed, they kept the letter and mailed a copy to an uncle who kept it for 20 + years and one day brought it back to me asked me if I could still write that well. They fear that if put my mind to it, I can rip off their masks to the family. I don’t want to do that. I want them to want to do that. I also don’t want to write them off if they can be saved – if they are willing to do the work to see how to fix themselves. My father is less narcissistic than he used to be and I’ve explained narcissism to my mother. She gets it, sees it and points it out in my sis, bro and dad, but not in herself. So there is hope, but not much.
In the end, I want closure one way or another. I want them to know what it will take for us to have a relationship. If they can step up, then fine, otherwise they can know that I can’t love them. I’m tired of seeing their puppy dog faces. My exP was doing that too, whenever I saw him.
But you are saying, I think, that this is not about them. It’s about my ability to let go of them or any other bad people and to become my own authority and to self comfort. Yes, that would be ideal and I want that regardless of how this turns out. It’s part of growing up. I’m 45 in a few weeks. It’s time.
Kathy, It took me a while to respond and I’m not sure why I couldn’t get the words out. Maybe I don’t want to acknowledge what I already know is true I need to eject baggage.
My horoscope for the month begins: This is a month perfect for fixing things in your life that are not working. This is an unlikely time to find a peaceful period to decide what you’d like to change, what to leave, and what to bring in the New Year, but it is the perfect time to do so. During most of this month, you will be in an enormously reflective mood. …. It seems you need to clear out certain outworn elements of your life – people, feelings, possessions, and obligations – that you feel no longer have the meaning they once did for you.
My horoscope has been right on for the last 1.5 years. It predicted changes of earth shaking proportions for 2 years. Every aspect of my life has turned upside down since the spath’s mask came off. I’ve got 6 months to go.
Thank you Gem, for the doll. I think if you guys all knew my address, I would find a plethora of dolls arriving, unexpectedly! (((hugs))) thanks for empathizing. It seems stupid, but I’m hung up on my dolls ruined hair! LOL.
Kim,
Narcissist parents do sabotage their children. They don’t want the child to do or have more than they did.
I have a very sad story that illustrates that.
One of my best friends in highschool, R, was molested as a child by her step dad. I only found out last year.
At age 14 she was the sweetest most compassionate, naive, innocent person. At 17 she moved in with drug dealers and got addicted. She had a baby with her BF but they split up and he raised the baby. Neither he nor I could stand her because of her cocaine addiction and I lost track of her for 20 years. She had 4 more babies and they were all taken by CPS. I saw her last year and she is a meth addict with no teeth. She had been a beautiful blonde model as a teenager. Somehow her 16 yo daughter, W, has been living with her for a couple of years. They smoke pot and drink together. I met W’s bf last summer. He is 42. W lives with him and HIS MOM, during the summer. R should be able to see that this is a pedophile and stop it. W will end up pregnant with low self-esteem, and follow in her mom’s footsteps. Whether conciously, or unconciously, that is what R wants. She wants her daughter to be miserable because that makes her less miserable. I never thought of R as a narcissist. She was so sweet. How did this happen?
BTW, dynamics of scapegoating keeps coming up as an article you have to pay for. Any way to read it for free?
Dear Sky,
I can’t find the exact quote in Kathy’s postings yesterday but she said about “wanting your parents to be something they aren’t…” I think that is my feeling toward the egg donor…I wanted her to be my idea of what a “mother” should be, but she is NOT and CANNOT BE that person, and for me to expect her to be that person is not right or fair on my part either. Any more “fair” for her to want me to be what SHE wants me to be.
I don’t what to be the person she wants as a daughter…I’m not that person. I will not allow her to use me or abuse me and that upsets her. But by the same token, she isn’t going to be the kind, loving, compassionate and caring mother that I want either.
That being the case, we need to each go our separate ways.
I have quit grieving over the fact that she cannot be what I want in a mother. Is it her “fault?” (shrugging shoulders here) I dunn’a know if it is or not but does mean that she doesn’t meet my needs for an adult relationship with a mother. I can survive not having that relationship, and I will survive not having that relationship, but thinking I had it when I didn’t made me sad, but I won’t stay sad forever. I can meet my own needs as an adult. It gets better if we look at it minus the emotional feeling of loss and injury. Takes time too.
Yes, Skylar. address is:
htp://www.orgdyn.com/team_mirror/scapegoating.pdf