UPDATED FOR 2024. Last week, Lovefraud posted a letter from “Cybil,” I did not choose this guy. Here’s more of her experience about “things people say.”
I’ll call this, “Things people say, part II.” This is the other one that bugs me: “You’re paranoid.” I always have a good 24 hours of self-doubt before I realize they’re the ones that are nuts, not me. I know a lot more about what crazy stuff is out there in the world than your average, never-tangled-with-a-sociopath human does.
I just went to a seminar of a national expert on how domestic violence leads to murder, especially for women. Over and over he said, “Trust your instinct.” He told the audience to take women seriously when they have these stories (like those on this blog) and that if she is a co-worker you should elevate these stories to security for everyone’s safety because it could easily become a workplace shooting.
Paranoid
But continually I have had people in my life say I am paranoid since my ex came into my life. HE used to tell me I was paranoid. Crazy. Hysterical. Depressed. I wasn’t. I was living in a psychological and physical war zone. People who survive sociopaths have survived wars. The people on the blog are war-buddies.
The funny part is watching how the people who told me I was paranoid act when their blinders fall off. Like my parents, every few weeks another blinder falls off. When the death threats came in, they were in shock and they never said, “You told us so,” but they started taking things a bit more seriously and realized that when they told me I was paranoid that he was going to kill me (Well, yes, he hit you, he lied to you, he had an arrest record, but he’d never kill you. He’d get in trouble. He’s not that stupid), they were wrong. The sad part is watching them go back into denial as the “living with death threats” thing starts to become routine.
A strange event happened the other day. I called the police. My parents say: You know that was just a random thing that happened. You’re paranoid.
Really?
Responsibility
I am going to start telling people in my life, you are not allowed to tell me I’m paranoid or that I chose this guy. Not only is it horribly deflating, it goes to the heart of what I am healing from and getting stronger by.
When people tell me “You chose him,” they are telling me I have to take more responsibility, but taking more than my share of responsibility for what happened is what kept me in the bad relationship longer than I should have been. Because I started to believe it was my fault, because he told me it was my fault. If I could just fix me, then maybe he wouldn’t have to get so crazy and mean. It took me several years of dangerous experimenting with every “me” I could be, to realize it wasn’t ME. Yeah, I don’t have a problem taking responsibility and I don’t need help taking more.
When people tell me “You’re paranoid,” they are really questioning my instinct and telling me not to listen to it. I am a year and a half out from living with an abuser and a gaslighter; I am largely over the hyper-alert period. I know what I feel. Doubting that was also what kept me in the bad place: Maybe he is telling the truth, maybe he did do that for my own good, maybe I am being too judgmental, maybe I should give him another chance. Not doubting my instinct to walk out that last time was what let me walk out!!!!
I’m not going back there. Not even in a mental sense.
Learn more: Beyond betrayal — how to recover from the trauma
Lovefraud originally posted this story on Nov. 27, 2010.
The sociopathic MO in three easy steps
I don’t know, Sky. There’s a lot of anger in that post. And it’s clear, well-reasoned anger. But the part that’s painful, I think, is the feeling of helplessness.
Anger is a spur to action. To do something to eliminate the problem. The kind of acting out you did as a teenager sounds more like a form of communication, a way to get attention to the fact that you were unhappy or had grievances. That’s not what I’m talking about.
I’m talking about reacting to a threat. First in your mind and body, then doing something about it. Maybe the word “anger” itself is confusing. Anger is the emotional equivalent of the word “no.”
And it’s a good thing. Natural. Self-protective. The souce of power to control our lives.
It is not about getting out of control. Nor is it about acting out old unresolved feelings. Although old, unresolved feeling can leave us saturated with un-acted-upon anger that causes us to feel anger that is way out of proportion to small things that happen to us.
This is about identifying problems or obstacles, and then taking care of them.
In describing what happened with that woman, you said, “But it went right by me at first, I was uncomfortable but confused.”
That is anger. It didn’t go by you. You felt it, but you weren’t certain what was causing it. That’s normal. Then when you got a little more information (“Island Angel”), you understood your reaction better. It came down to “no.”
How you handled it from then on is just how you took action. If your style is to withdraw first and think about what to do, it doesn’t diminish the fact that you were focussed on the problem and working on it. She was a threat. You took your time, talked to people, and decided how to get rid of her.
This is what I’m talking about.
When don’t or can’t take action — like the business with the government — you start suffering from unresolved anger. You’re still in threat-mode. Talking about it, like you are here, can help release some of the energy. But ultimately, you either need to do something or decide that it doesn’t really matter.
I realize that’s hard to accept. Especially for people who have been seriously harmed, like the victims of Bernard Madoff or people who have lost their houses. But if you’re angry, doing something about it is important. Maybe writing letters to Congress, joining a political movement, fighting the bank, looking for class action suits you can join. That’s what this anger requires from you. Your nervous system is telling you it feels threatened and it wants you to do something. Eventually, you will take enough action that your nervous system says enough, I want to get on with the rest of my life. And you will decide the threat is no longer so important, compared to other things you could be doing.
This is what I believe. And it’s how I live. If I don’t like something, I do something about it. I think about what I’m going to do. I don’t pull out my sword and start chopping people’s heads off. But I look for ways to take action, because I trust the wisdom of my nervous system. If it says I should be doing something to take care of myself, I listen to what it’s concerned about, and I look for ways to take care of the problem.
Right now I’m involved in fighting several things that are happening in Congress. I write letters. I send a few dollars to support people who are organizing the resistance. I send letters to people who feel the same way, so they know when to take action. It’s small, but individual action adds up. I’m doing it because I feel threatened. And if those bills pass, despite my best efforts, then I’ll start trying to figure out how to get around them, so they don’t affect my life. Who knows where this will lead for me — maybe new business opportunities in the future, new friends, more political action, more knowledge about something to make my life better. Action creates knowledge, experience and more opportunity.
Okay back to work. I hope some of this makes sense.
Kathy
Kathy, great post! I also like your suggestions about how we do (or do not) do things about resolving the fear and anger we feel about how our world is going, how our country is going.
It used to be very frightening and anxiety producing to me to realize I had so little REAL control over the government, yet, I vote, and I do as you said, I write letters and express my opinions to others etc. so I AM really doing as much as I am (at this time) capable of giving energy to, but I think the difference NOW is that, I do what I can do, and don’t expect myself to fix the country’s problems all by myself or FEEL LIKE A FAILURE BECAUSE I CAN’T.
I think that “feeling like a failure” part was a big part of my problem, the perceiving myself as “If I can’t stop all drunk driving on the highways, I’m a failure” or “get rid of all crooked officials” etc. So,, none of us can do it all, and none of us should feel responsible for doing it all—I am only ONE but I CAN do what ONE can do.
Even Mother Theresa didn’t comfort every dying pauper in the world, but she helped those she could directly and indirectly. That is what we can do, we can’t comfort every victim or teach every person about psychopaths, but we can comfort the ones we can and teach the ones we can, and leave something for the rest of the world to work on as well. If that makes any sense.
I am just viewing myself now as more a success at the things I am ABLE to do and not viewing myself as a failure for not being able to make the world/universe a perfect place. LOL
Kathy and Oxy,
I started to post and it became a big rambling preachy post where ME and I came out. Yes, there are 2 sides to my personality. I’M really tough and can take on the world but ME is a big whiny baby.
So anyway, I’ll maybe work on that reply and post it later, when it starts to make more sense. The more I typed, the more I answered my own questions. Thanks for entertaining my rambling thoughts on anger and boundaries, it has opened my eyes to seeing that I have more issues to consider.
Lately, I’ve been going through a melt down regarding my parents. They’ve been on my mind because I have always handled their bookkeeping and finances for both business and personal. Since “All the Evil Happened” to paraphrase from “The girl with the dragon tattoo”, I have dropped the ball numerous times and can hardly keep up. I’ve been doing the same tiny bit of bookkeeping for 20 years but suddenly I freeze when I even look at quickbooks. I can’t bear to do the work and it’s getting harder and harder. I think it’s because I am reasonably happy as long as I don’t have to think about them. I’m not sure, I almost feel like panicking when I think about my parents. My exP, well I laugh about him, though he is revolting. But my parents give me the creeps. I can’t cut ties because they have my 4 remaining cats. At this point, I can’t take them back, my place is too small and there are coyotes out here.
It feels like my PTSD is just flaring up and I can’t figure out why, nothing has changed. Are these things cyclical?
One Step,
you said, “can you find a therapist to help you make some boundaries?”
I can’t afford any therapy, if I could I would go. God knows I need it. But your question made me think: how does one do that? Like one LF poster was saying, that her spath would cross boundaries and when asked why, he said, “well you never told me not to do that.” In other words, she was supposed to come up with every possible boundary that a spath might cross and make a list? The boundaries that get past me are the subtle abuses. I didn’t even know what a backhanded complement was until I read about it here on LF. Still not sure I would recognize it if I heard one.
I also wanted to mention that one the ways you can tell that the TSA is a sociopathic organization is because while they are rubbing their hands between your thighs, they are told to say, “I’ll keep going until I meet resistance”. Truer words were never spoken by a spath. Like you said, One Step,”They sure like to tell us what they’re up to, dont they?”
No, you say.
(Him) Why? What’s the matter? You didn’t mind it last week. How am I supposed to know how to treat you, if you keep changing your mind? You’re acting crazy. Did you see your therapist this week?
(You) I said, no. I don’t have to justify myself to you. When I say no, that means back off. I don’t like it right now.
(Him) Well, gee. What about me? How am I supposed to feel about this?
(You) How did this suddenly become about you? This is about me. My feelings. I told you to stop doing that to me. I don’t like it.
(Him) Well you better tell me what else you don’t like, so I don’t make any more mistakes.
(You) Again, how did this get to be about you? Why do I have to tell you anything like that? I don’t see how it serves me at all. Suppose you write your little rule book about me, and then I decide I’m not in the mood to play by those rules. What happens then?
(Him) Well, that would be really unfair. I think it would mean that you are cruel and dishonest.
(You) Well, isn’t that clever of you. So you’ve gotten from me telling you to stop something to an excuse for making me a bad guy anytime I don’t behave like a robot. Suppose I have PMS. Or I’m tired from work. Or I’m distracted by something I need to discuss with my best friend. Or maybe I’m just bored with the same old thing all the time. Why do you want rules for everything? What’s wrong with you?
(Him) What are you trying to put this on me? We’re talking about your problems. You’re the one that’s so touchy. And you never answered my question about seeing your therapist. I think you’re acting hysterical. I’m really worried about you. Maybe you need some antidepressents.
(You) No. Read my lips. No. No, I didn’t like what you’re doing. No, I don’t like your idea for a rule book. No, I’m not interested in your evaluation of my mental health. In fact, I feel a migraine coming on just thinking about it all.
(Him) Well, you’re not much fun tonight.
(You) Hmm. What do you think you should do about that?
(Him) I don’t have time to think about this right now. I just remembered I was supposed to be somewhere a half hour ago. But I’m coming back tomorrow and I think you owe me an explanation for your behavior.
(You) Sorry, I’m busy. The girls are throwing me a graduation party at the Power Is Not a Four-Letter Word Club. And then I’m going hang-gliding with my mother. Maybe you should try calling Dr. Phil.
Dear Skylar,
That was me that told FAD (fight another day) that reference from a book called “Run with the Horseman” about a kid who wasn’t a bad kid but they couldn’t think of enough things to tell him NOT to do. (He had lit the farts of a mule and scared her nearly to death and she had trampled down his grandfather’s cotton crop in her efforts to run away!) WHO would think to tell a kid “Now don’t you go lighting the mule’s farts while you are plowing with her!?” LOL ROTFLMAO
I think I understand your developing PHOBIA about your parents and the books you keep for them–believe it or not I developed a phobia about listening to an telephone answering machine messages after my husband was killed. I couldn’t make myself listen to the messages and I am NOT to this day SURE WHY? I still ALMOST never listen to my voice mails for whatever is the same reason I guess.
Is it possible that you feel “held hostage” by them taking care of your other cats? You’d like to tell them to buzz off but you feel like you can’t without putting your cats at risk? I’m reading between the lines here so I can be waaaay off but just a thought.
Sometimes I think those rambling posts that we almost make to OURSELVES are some of the most enlightening to us if not to others.
Yes, to answer your questions, these things are cyclical and roller coaster and up and down…and we fix one thing in ourselves and then it seems another thing we need to work on becomes obvious. Sometimes I get so tired of finding new things about myself to fix I want to scream—I quit smoking, a big fix, and got that done with and now I’m having to lose weight and cut my salt intake down to zilch, so what else is there left to fix!? LOL Next and then the next thing, boundaries, then deal with this and deal with that thing…but I really do realize I have made a lot of progress…and still more to go…but working on it.
I’ve seen a great deal of progress in you too, and like I told One the other day, she is “starting to sound SANE” and so are YOU! ((((Hugs)))) This past week or two it has been EB’s turn to be “in the barrel” (remember that old joke!? If not I’ll tell it, let me know) and we each have our turn in the barrel, we each have our turn at being “this week’s crazeeeee person” but we start to sound more and more SANE and spent less and less time as the “crazeee person” we came here as.
BTW I am reading the “girl with the dragon tattoo” and have the two other books to read after I finish that.
A “backhanded compliment” is like saying “You’re not too ugly for a fat girl” LOL or “You can tell a girl her face will stop TIME, or you can tell her it will STOP A CLOCK!” (and they don’t mean the same thing LOL)
Sky, I think your SELF AWARENESS is growing by leaps and bounds and in the end that self-awareness is what leads us to be able to set goals and to make changes that are positive. (and that is MEANT TO COMPLIMENT YOU NOT BACKHANDEDLY!
Kim, I see that you posted here yesterday, {Wed.,} so I assume you have moved in to your cottage, and are hooked up to the Net?
You said youd give me your postal address, so I cn post the prints to you.
Have you changed your mind, re all this? If so thats totally cool, its just Id like to know, as I have them in the envelope, stamped, and ready to send to you.
Can you let me know whats going on?
Thanks!
Love,
Gemxx
Hi, Kim, I didn’t even see your post, I must have missed it scrolling down, until I saw Gem post to you!
How is your new home? I hope you are settling in and feeling at home there now, making it yours.
BTW I love your literary references! (((hugs))))
i am going to go off and read this long list of replies today…juicy!
Kathy and I posted over each other and I didn’t see her dialog until just now and it is GREAT!!!!! LOL Kathy you need to write a play! You’ve got the dialog part down pat!
Thanks, Oxy. I’m still working on finishing that project but just dropped in to be inspired again by Skylar’s writing about doing boundaries. I just want to wisk her away to the Hawk Intensive weekend seminar listening to your gut and ignoring (or shooting) anything that argues with it.
And Oxy, I just want to say that you are my role model for courage in helping. I can’t tell you how many times watching you has helped me find the nerve to talk. And I think that there’s no way to know how far your words, my words and all the helping on this blog have gone out into the world, giving people comfort and courage, then they pass it on, waves of people getting better and stronger that we’ll never know about.
There is no small action. It’s not the size that matters but the energy and intention behind it. We’re getting better and making the world better as we do.
Is that cool or what?
Namaste, sweetie —
Kathy