UPDATED FOR 2024. Last week, Lovefraud posted a letter from “Cybil,” I did not choose this guy. Here’s more of her experience about “things people say.”
I’ll call this, “Things people say, part II.” This is the other one that bugs me: “You’re paranoid.” I always have a good 24 hours of self-doubt before I realize they’re the ones that are nuts, not me. I know a lot more about what crazy stuff is out there in the world than your average, never-tangled-with-a-sociopath human does.
I just went to a seminar of a national expert on how domestic violence leads to murder, especially for women. Over and over he said, “Trust your instinct.” He told the audience to take women seriously when they have these stories (like those on this blog) and that if she is a co-worker you should elevate these stories to security for everyone’s safety because it could easily become a workplace shooting.
Paranoid
But continually I have had people in my life say I am paranoid since my ex came into my life. HE used to tell me I was paranoid. Crazy. Hysterical. Depressed. I wasn’t. I was living in a psychological and physical war zone. People who survive sociopaths have survived wars. The people on the blog are war-buddies.
The funny part is watching how the people who told me I was paranoid act when their blinders fall off. Like my parents, every few weeks another blinder falls off. When the death threats came in, they were in shock and they never said, “You told us so,” but they started taking things a bit more seriously and realized that when they told me I was paranoid that he was going to kill me (Well, yes, he hit you, he lied to you, he had an arrest record, but he’d never kill you. He’d get in trouble. He’s not that stupid), they were wrong. The sad part is watching them go back into denial as the “living with death threats” thing starts to become routine.
A strange event happened the other day. I called the police. My parents say: You know that was just a random thing that happened. You’re paranoid.
Really?
Responsibility
I am going to start telling people in my life, you are not allowed to tell me I’m paranoid or that I chose this guy. Not only is it horribly deflating, it goes to the heart of what I am healing from and getting stronger by.
When people tell me “You chose him,” they are telling me I have to take more responsibility, but taking more than my share of responsibility for what happened is what kept me in the bad relationship longer than I should have been. Because I started to believe it was my fault, because he told me it was my fault. If I could just fix me, then maybe he wouldn’t have to get so crazy and mean. It took me several years of dangerous experimenting with every “me” I could be, to realize it wasn’t ME. Yeah, I don’t have a problem taking responsibility and I don’t need help taking more.
When people tell me “You’re paranoid,” they are really questioning my instinct and telling me not to listen to it. I am a year and a half out from living with an abuser and a gaslighter; I am largely over the hyper-alert period. I know what I feel. Doubting that was also what kept me in the bad place: Maybe he is telling the truth, maybe he did do that for my own good, maybe I am being too judgmental, maybe I should give him another chance. Not doubting my instinct to walk out that last time was what let me walk out!!!!
I’m not going back there. Not even in a mental sense.
Learn more: Beyond betrayal — how to recover from the trauma
Lovefraud originally posted this story on Nov. 27, 2010.
The sociopathic MO in three easy steps
Kathy, Dr. Eric Berne, in his book “Games people play” gave many great examples of just such dialogs as you did…REFUSING TO PLAY THE GAME, and to the psychopaths “the game” is what it is all about.
Here’s one that I am paraphrasing from the book. Man comes home and says “Where are my cuff links?” That APPEARs to be a straight forward adult to adult question, asking for information. BUT it is a HOOK to start a fight. She can either pick up the hook or refuse the hook.
Him: where are my cufflinks?
her: They are on your dresser, dear, where you left them.
End of conversation no problem.
Now, he says the SAME WORDS “where are my cuff links” but in a DIFFERENT TONE OF VOICE, which signals he is wanting to start a fight so here we go:
Him: (snide voice) where are my cuff links? (meaning, you are a lousy house keeper where did you put them this time, bitch?”
Her: she can RESPOND to the WORDS, or to the implied tone of voice of “let’s fight” so if she says “I don’t know, but I’ll help you look” or “I saw them on your dresser” there IS NO FIGHT, BUT if she responds to the UNDERTONE then the fight is on and they forget about the cuff links.
Her. (responding to the nasty tone and going with the gamey fight) “I don’t know where they are jerkface, if you would put your stuff where it belongs you wouldn’t always be expecting me to keep up with your stuff>..”
The fight is on!
So EVEN IF they are wanting a fight, we can SIDE STEP it, or avoid it or just REFUSE to engage.
Her responding to the nasty tone of voide and implied message: “You sound tense, did you have a bad day?” or “Your voice sounds like you don’t want to go to the fancy party tonight where you will have to wear your cuff links.” or any number of different things but NOT engaging in the fighting.
Another good one is simply to say “You sound really stressed now, I think we should discuss this subject some other time when we are both not stressed out”
and of course there are millions of variations on it.
I do suggest that folks who are learning to set boundaries read Erick Berne’s “Games people play:” it is written in a simple way, and is quite funny actually and I sure saw myself involved in lots of games, in the enabling, and in the various other “games’ and the THREE positions of ” victim, rescuer, and persecutor” and the odd part is that he makes the point (and I agree with him) that we all play ALL of the various roles in turn if we engage in GAMES which many (most?) of us have I think.
Another example is the man comes home drunk (he’s the persecutor at that point) his wife meets him at the door (she’s the victim because he spent all the rent money) and then she starts in on him biatching (now he is the victim and she’s the persecutor) and she biatches at him until he finally gets a gut full and slaps her (change roles again) then she calls the cops andn the cop shows up and arrests him (so the cop is the rescuer) and now the arrested drunk is the victim, and the wife pressing charges is the persecutor, then the next morning, she goes down and hocks her wedding ring (rescuer role) to get bail monery for him (now she brings him home she’s the rescuer to his victim) then she starts biatching at him (he’s now the victim and she’s the persecutor) he gets a gut full and slaps her (change roles again) and so on and on and on and ON!
Like musical chairs VICTIM-RESCUER-PERSECUTOR round and round it goes, where it stops—-is when we quit playing the games, set boundaries and enforce them,, and take responsibility for ourselves and no one else.
Sure, it’s hard to let someone lose their job because they get drunk and hung over and don’t show up to work, but calling “John’s” job and lying to his boss is ENABLING/RESCUING him but it isn’t doing him any good, because HE needs to have the consequences of his bad choices. Then invariably the rescuer gets mad at the bad guy for making the bad choices and “making” her clean up the mess….when the real solution is for her NOT TO CLEAN UP THE MESS, let him lie in the mess he made…of course if you are married to him and rent to pay and kids to feed it seems like you are trapped into “rescuing” him or fixing his messes. I felt trapped or obligated to fix the messes for my sons, I THOUGHT I wasn’t enabling them, but darned if I wasn’t in DENIAL about my own roles in the problems.
Sure, I had “good” excuses “I don’t want him to ruin his life before he gets sense enough to know what he is doing.” DUH!~ that was a good one, sounded good anyway, didn’t it?
LOL ROTFLMAO Yea it sounded good to me at the time too…but it wasn’t a “good excuse” just an EXCUSE….for not letting him suffer the consequences of his behavior….and the thing is that with a psychopath, he wasn’t going to learn from that consequence, but maybe if he hadn’t been a P he might have.
The thing is though, would have saved ME a lot of grief by me not feeling obligated and responsible for HIS CONSEQUENCES. That was the one it would have helped ME. Too soon old, too late smart! But I’m getting smarter by the day! LOL Learning by experiencing my OWN CONSEQUENCES of pain when I try to enable others. You can teach a flat worm if you shock it enough times with painful electrical stimuli. I’m almost that smart! LOL
Kathy, “say Hallelulah sista’ put yer hand on the radio and if you don’t have a radio, any electrical appliance will do…and BTW send your donation to Sista Oxy at Box 555, Anytown, USA” LOL
Skylar, I think Kathy’s “preaching” is right on (and I think you are about to “join the ‘church’ of the P-free” and learn to set some boundaries. LOL Yea, sista!!! LOL) I definitely know how you feel about “people pleasing” and it is hard when we first start to say NO THAT IS NOT WORKING FOR ME! (to use Kathy’s phrase from the past!) Glad she is back to give us all some of the “Gospel of P-free!”
Skylar, I am embarrassed. You got to the point so quickly; I didn’t need to waste all those words.
I understand your desire to be nice and make people happy. We all feel that way. It’s more rewarding to bond and maintain your extended family relationships than to play tough games of self-defense. Especially with people who will do anything to win.
My recent experience is that the need to pull on the psychic armor is infrequent. And if I take care of things that bother me as they happen, the rest of my life is pretty clear sailing. It’s when I don’t take care of violations or abuse, that the feelings of resentment or helplessness drag on, coloring my perception of my life.
I don’t know if this was always true, but you seem to describe yourself in worse terms than you’re actually doing. You seem sharp, responsive and capable. I haven’t been around much and don’t know your life. But that’s just my impression from what I’ve been reading.
You know, if you make an effort, you can train yourself to become more aware of the body signals. I did this in my mid-thirties, really paying attention to my solar plexus, because I was so out of touch with my emotions that it would take me forever to respond to things. I’m still not the fastest kid on the block, but I’ve become more familiar with things like the clutch in the gut (violation), the heart ache thing (disappointment and grief), the throat closing (shut up and get the hell out of here), the tension headache (stop trying to control things and take a time out).
And the other big thing that’s shown up relatively lately since I’ve done all this work on myself is the “brown out.” My whole system just gets into something like stubborn mule mode and refuses to go on or participate. It’s startlingto me, because I used to be able to force myself to do anything, no matter how tired or overwhelmed or how much I didn’t want to do it.
I suspect that it’s just a normal level of resistance that other people take for granted. But like you, I had a very high tolerance level for abuse, including self-abuse. I’ve been through ulcers, high blood pressure, various other stress-related afflictions and a few periods of clinical depression, because of it. Now, apparently, my system is taking another tack. It’s just putting it’s foot down and refusing. I can’t focus. I get sleepy. The funny thing is, if I stop doing whatever is causing this, and go do something I want to do, I’m fine.
I wanted to change my life when I started working on myself. I didn’t anticipate that it was going to happen this way. But in my slow-to-respond way, I’m discovering that something in me is going to change my life, whether my conscious mind is on board or not. I’m cutting down on my workload. Telling people I’m not well or not available. Getting more serious about my relationship standards. I’ve bought a travel trailer and I’m looking for a tow vehicle now. And without really thinking about what I was doing, I stopped paying my mortgage a few months ago and I’m looking at a foreclosure on this big expensive property that I love, but is impossible for me to maintain.
And please, whoever reads this, don’t give me any sympathy or advice. I don’t need it. There a watcher part of me that’s observing all of this, helping me find the things that I want to and can control and the things that I just can’t control. And I’m letting it play out. There’s a plan here, even if I’m not exactly clear about it all.
So that’s my story today. Back to work —
Kathy
Kathleen Hello =) I tried to email you I may have your addy wrong could you please send it to me mine is the same Thanks!
No sympathy from me, Kathleen. You are simplyfying your life. I see you visiting all the national parks, walking in the rain forest, climbing mountains and enjoying the sunset on an ocean shore, somewhere. It sounds wonderful. And no baggage or financial worrys. No more headaches.
God speed.
Thanks for the support, Kim, it feels good.
Spirit40, forward the letter to me again, but put “lovefraud” in the subject line. I’ll create a rule in my inbox to make sure it doesn’t go into my junk file.
Kathy!!!! RV!!!! GREAT!!! TOWANDA!!!! Simplify!!! Yea!!! Oh, yes!!! I can so identify! After I got home and parked the RV (I bought a shelter roof for it to keep hail off it) I knew I would never let it go! It was my ESCAPE POD. I have several friends who have started living full time in their RVs and it is a great simplification for sure.
Some learning curve in taking care of the critter, but still a simplicity over a larger house, and so convenient, no “house work” and lower utility bills etc.
I’ve been reading about these people who are mega-simplifying by cutting down the things they own to 100 items even counting their tooth brushes! I’m not ready to go that far, but I am cutting DOWN and simplifying, so I definitely understand your choice and applaud your choice! I think with our economy going the way it is that more and more people (IF THEY ARE SMART) will be doing the same thing. So great!!! Proud of you! I can’t divest myself of this “beast” (the farm) until after my egg donor passes away but that is exactly what I am planning to do–down size!!!
Kathleen – my body is doing the same thing. has been for the whole last year.
i have some other challenges – the chemical sensitivities, but it’s so much more than that – it is resistance with a capital R. i am starting to like it. it does require a big shift in identity, though, and that is challenging.
I do find as i get older, that i have so much more experience to draw on; and, consequently, although I might now be able to remember things at times, I work smarter. The big R is not as difficult as it could be.
I don’t trust my mind/ memory, and it causes me a lot of stress. I need to find ways of handling the stress, and part of that might be learning more about organizing my notes and files, etc. I really want to see a neuropsychologist, and I will ask my otherwise useless physician for a rereferral – i don’t need to keep suffering and trying to adapt on my own, when there are professionals out there who could help me.
I had an event today – there were a lot of political players involved, and a couple of partners with conflicting interests. There have been some rough spots in the planning process, but today went off beautifully, not a single hitch. My confidence is up, and I made a good impression with my bosses and for the organization. slight exhale. and back at it. the stakes keep going up, but I have made it through 4 events with them now, and am making them some money.
Oxy — what does towanda mean?
Velveeta – did you see the movie fried green tomatoes? There is a scene, where Kathy Bates, who is discovering her backbone (and perhaps going a tiny bit overboard as we are want to do with new boundaries), rams her car into the car of someone who tries to steal her parking space at the mall (or walmart…can’t remember).
We use it here when we show/ grow our backbones, score one against sociopathy, learn about or take good care of ourselves.