By | March 22, 2012 41 Comments

LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: This is the time for me to learn who I am

Editor’s Note: Lovefraud received the following email from a reader whom we’ll call “Adelade.”

Since the collapse of my second marriage, I have learned more than I would ever have wanted to know about sociopathy and their source targets – better known as, “victims.” At one point, I had believed that my second marriage was stable, trust-based, and supportive, but I have recounted the years and the stunning discoveries that I made about my ex, and the symptoms (or, Red Flags) were all there, though they were more subtle and the absence of physical abuse, helped to frame the ex’s facade.

Through some very strong counseling, I was able to identify that “inner child” that I’d heard so much talk about. I had always believed that the “inner child” was that core of us that was joyous, innocent, and so forth – a positive aspect of our lives. This is not so. The “inner child” is that part of my development that had been so neglected, so criticized, and so damaged that I developed into a perfect co-dependent victim. Nearly all of my choices throughout my lifetime were based upon the damages that were sustained by that child in development.

Depths of betrayal

When I discovered the depths of betrayal that my second ex had perpetrated, I had enough backbone and common sense to realize that there would be no salvaging of this union. I was able to recognize that he had compartmentalized very disturbing and alarming aspects of his personality to such a degree that nobody (including me) could have pegged him for being the ultra-deviant that he is.

Further investigation of my finances uncovered extensive draining of my personal and individual investments down to zero, and this information only resulted AFTER he left. My suspicions had always been aroused, but his manipulations and deceptions were so subtle and effective that I was simply shocked to learn the truth of what had happened to my investments. While we were married, the ex would assure me that my assets were “safe” and “tied up in real estate,” and he would become exceedingly defensive if I ever questioned him about where my money had disappeared to. He would vociferously throw my queries back into my face by responding, “I’m NOT your EX!”

Okay, he wasn’t my ex. I trusted him, on every level. Yet, there was always something lacking, even though I believed our relationship to be honest, supportive, and “healthy.” He didn’t beat me. He didn’t tell me that I was worthless. He didn’t threaten me at gunpoint. He was just seemed relatively introverted and suspicious of other people, including his own family members. In my mind, no abuse meant no problems. But there were problems. He did not demonstrate support of my accomplishments and achievements. He didn’t attend my graduation. He didn’t attend my Honors Ceremony. My triumphs were downplayed and he always had a plausible excuse for not being there to share in my bright moments.

He openly disdained women, which was something that I didn’t understand at the time. When I once asked him if he had ever read any female authors, he replied (and, I quote), “I just don’t think that women have much to say.” Later, when he read “To Kill A Mockingbird” upon my suggestion, he asked me if Harper Lee had written any other books because “he” had written such a great story. I had remembered his view of female authors, and I took great relish in saying, “Well, SHE won a Pulitzer Prize for that work and it was the only thing that she ever needed to write.” He was floored, to say the least, that Harper Lee had been a female author with her one and only work earning a Pulitzer. In retrospect, I can pinpoint various “red flags” that directly substantiated his intense hatred of women, especially accomplished women. The imagery that he found to be sexually stimulating demeaned women through rape, torture, genital mutilation, murder, and necrophilia.

I stopped blaming myself

Hindsight is always, 20/20, and I tried beating myself up about missing the clues. I’ve stopped blaming and shaming myself for his betrayals because he was one of these types that would be defined as a Case Study in the psychological world. He made deliberate choices to deceive and compartmentalize what he truly is. My physician, counselor, family, and friends, have all mentioned that they thought that these types of situations were only found on CSI or other crime shows – my situation is something that just blew their minds because it was so warped and they each knew the victim of something that couldn’t possibly exist outside of a scripted crime drama.

There’s a lot of discussion about shame and blame, and I think it’s a moral and emotional imperative that those of us who have been victimized by a sociopath need to be kinder to ourselves. “Should have”¦” is a game that begins with the deliberate, calculating, and malicious machinations of the sociopath. To let go of that shame and blame takes a lot of hard work, self-talk, and strong counseling (IMHO). No matter how much we read and absorb about sociopathy, our personal experiences forego all of the literature and we must soothe our damaged souls in order for those horrific wounds to begin closing up. Those wounds will always be visible, but they will heal over and be a reminder to us of what we survived, and what we need to look out for in every relationship, whether platonic, romantic, work-related, etc.

The “love” that the sociopath took from me and ground into the dirt is now devoted to my own self, my family, and my friends. I have made a conscious decision that I will not ever entertain another partnership for the rest of my life. Sure, I’ll have men who are friends and mentors – I do not have a beef with men. I know that women can be sociopaths just as easily as men can, and nearly all of my relationships have to remain superficial for the foreseeable future. My energies must be devoted to me and my healing, before I open up that door of trust again. And, as for sex ”¦ the fact that I had lived with, made love to, and slept beside an individual for almost 15 years that finds violence, torture, and murder of women to be of sexual interest has shaken my own views of my personal sexuality down to its core.

My time

This is my time. This is time for me to learn who I am, who I was meant to be, and take steps to become the person that I want to be and to not base my emergence upon what I think that others want me to be. Whatever the ex did is not my concern, with the exception of the financial resources that he took from me. I am the keeper of my own boundaries and healing. “Understanding” what makes a sociopath behave the way that they choose will not – will not – ever change what’s been done, nor will it prevent someone else from being victimized by my ex. I must simply recognize and accept is that there are some very bad people in the world and that they typically follow a generalized pattern of behaviors. What I must now learn to do effectively is identify the signs of sociopathy and run like hell from anyone who fits the profile, no matter whom they might be.

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Although it sounds like he did you a favor, which is also true in my case, towards once and for all identifying why it is that we would have let someone like this into our life in the first place, the pain of betrayal is just numbing.

Whether it’s millions that they steal from you or thousands, the devastation feels the same if it’s all that you had. This orchestration that goes on in the background while they’re crawling in bed with you every night as if everything is hunky-dory, you just can’t begin to understand the effect that has on every aspect of your life unless you experience it firsthand.

I was so focused on his philandering throughout the “relationshit,” yet that was near the bottom of the list of what I dealt with in my healing process. It was my own self and my intuition that I had a difficult time trusting much more so than trusting others. The horrible feeling of not being able to trust others pales in comparison to the lack of trust you find within yourself after they systematically strip that away from you.

There are too many success stories of people that have recovered in time and have gone on to rebuild their lives and have healthy relationships. So I’ve focused on trying to be kind to myself knowing that I am not stupid and knowing that even trained psychiatrists and psychologists were duped by him. Focusing on “Why me? Why me? Why me?” was getting me nowhere.

Why me? Because I’m a good person and a very intelligent person, which is precisely what they prey on. Stupid people are no challenge to them. Bad people do not interest them because they remind them of themselves, and they hate themselves. The smarter you are, the more interested they become. The sweeter you are, the more driven they are to steal that from you. They are far more interested in robbing you of those things than anything financial.

What fun would it be for monsters with the skill in manipulation that they’ve crafted and honed their entire lives to dupe someone that is unintelligent? We all know that they get bored easily. So I now consider it flattering that he chose you because it is the best and most intelligent people that they are fascinated by.

My heart will never be the same, but maybe that’s a blessing in disguise. My heart when I met him was vulnerable. I believed there was good in everyone even though I was well aware of history dictating that is not the case. He made me smarter. He made me stronger. His plan was foiled. And that is what helps me to forge ahead for the first time in my life accepting nothing but the best for myself. I’ve been married. I’ve had children. I don’t know if another relationship is in the cards for me, but I know that a healthy relationship with myself is. And that’s something I’ve never had before. So I thank him for giving me the opportunity I might otherwise have never been presented with, and that is the opportunity to love myself and focus on myself rather than coddling and nurturing others. It’s my time, and anyone that has a problem with that can bite me. : )

28 years in and 3 years out and I feel much the same way as both of you. One of my problems is that I still live close to the narcissistic father and emotionally repressed mother who who set me such a bad example when it came to looking after my own interests but I can’t leave them because they are so old and frail and I love them.

But I am learning to love myself also and to do what I want to do. Expressing myself creatively is key to this. Some days are better than others; today your story has uplifted me. Thank you.

Ox Drover

Dear Adelade,

Thanks for a wonderful article and welcome to LoveFraud. It is obvious from your article that you are “one of us” those who are HEALING and GROWING and becoming stronger each day!

Thanks for your very nice article and glad to have you aboard!


you say “one of us?”


SO much energy is devoted in the attempt to sort out what motivated the spath(s) that I’ve ended up neglecting my own needs. Spaths are the way that they are because they just ARE.

My thing used to be that I could “forgive” or process my experiences if I could only “understand” why they did the things to other people that they did. Now, I really don’t care what psychiatric and medical opinion is. They do things because they CAN, and that’s it.

Here’s to “my time” and healing! TOWANDA!!!!


Hi Adelade,

Your letter hit very close to my heart this morning. The divorce was just finalized 02/07/12 after 4 years of a battle.
After 22 years of marriage , it took me a divorce to discover who he really was. Yes – he had an affair early on but I thought all of us could be susceptible and this was my second marriage. He was never mean, never abusive, never hit me – he was in fact quite charming and everybody’s buddy.

He was a bit selfish at times, distant, inattentive to me and the kids – all in the name of working hard.

Time and divorce revealed he was a serial cheater – neighbor who he is now with again, internet site hookups, go-go girls, even a family member. Financially – he was playing with a house of cards. It looked like he owned 3 homes and 2 businesses – most of it done behind my back. He used my paycheck so he could advance himself while I paid the bills .

So now, there is not much of anything left. Marital home is up for sale now because me and the kids can’t keep living next to his Skank girlfriend – it will likely sell at a loss. It WAS once paid for but he refinanced and lost all the money.

House number 2 – I will move the kids into it but it is right around the corner with huge outstanding mortgage for my age. However, the kids want to finish their schooling with their friends and they have been through enough. I just hope I can mentally deal with being there after he has lived there 4 years with Skank in and out every night.

Financially, -well I have to start over at 55 with an 18 yr old girl and 13 yr old boy. The sociopath is 4 weeks late in support and I don’t much expect things will ever change.

I need to find myself too – so much anger right now for the outcome of loving too much – I need to get back to counseling but those dollars are now going for my daughter’s counseling . She has almost no contact with her father and has judged him a true Narcissist/Sociopath. Living with him for 14 years has set her on her career path – counseling/psychology.

I pray I recover who i was meant to be – that muy children recover from their losses and my choices .

He has ruined so many lives – and bounces along even today as if he will rise again – and maybe he will.

Maybe he will go off with his beloved Skank, rebuild and live happily ever after. What he did to me and the kids certainly doesn’t seem to effect him at all.


Newlife08, I’m right with ya, babe.

With regard to your exspath’s delinquency, you can file (depending upon your State) a “Motion for Show Cause” without an attorney. At that time, you can ask the Judge to enforce direct deduction from his payroll to be paid through the Surrogate’s Office.

You will find yourself, as we all will. Emerging from these horrific experiences requires far more work than just “surviving” them, I think. Well, for me, anyway. And, meeting pitfall after pitfall through this ugly process is the most difficult challenge of all, for me. One minute, I’m doing okay. The next minute, I’m looking at a new snag in the legal process, and it’s mind-boggling.

And, Newlife08, get that “happily ever after” with his newest victim business out of your head – these human casements are incapable of experiencing true happiness. They only experience self-satisfaction at the misery they create. They are not “human,” by any stretch of the imagination, because they do not – cannot – will not – FEEL. The woman that he is now with, and the women that he has been with throughout the marriage, were victims just as much as you and your children were – they were used up and cast aside just like a snotrag.

Spath Island! Put them all together, shake them up, and let them sort it out so the rest of us can just move along and heal!

Ox Drover

Dear Newlife,

Glad to hear from you again and to know you finally got your divorce. The support will always be late, that’s his way of getting to you. You might petition to have it paid through the courts, I did that with mine and got my check every week.

You and your kids WILL recover, just keep putting one foot in front of the other and you will do it. I promise you. Good to hear from you again. Keep in touch, it does help to vent here! (((hugs))) and God bless.


Thanks , Oxy. I’ve been reading all along – never left LF. Just haven’t had much to contribute.

He is supposed to send the support through the courts – he’s just pushing the limits as I expected he would. Garnishment won’t work because he is self-employed.

I have some more moves to make to protect a little property we have to sell off- I have to find a way to prevent him from tapping into the equity for a loan and draining the last bit of money we have to divide. I suspect he will try to drain it and walk away from it. He could care less if the banks chase him. If he did this he would walk away with more than he would by selling, screw me out of even a dime and let the bank chase him. Pretty much what he has done to everything we supposedly owned.

Too bad Matt isn’t around – he was so good with this stuff !

Ox Drover

I’m sorry you got screwed so badly NewLife, and I know it isn’t much comfort to hear “they do it to all of us!” LOL Just focus on yourself and your children. How are they doing emotionally about him and his Skank? That’s the biggest thing they hurt for us is our children. Keep your faith! (((hugs))))


Morning, Oxy !

The kids are each going through their own misery brought on by N-dad. Daughter 18 is graduating HS and getting ready for the community college here in town. She will go there the first 2 years and transfer to a state university after. It’s a pretty good savings for 2 yrs and all I can do on my own. I have to get a roof over their heads first and land on our feet – then I can revisit the next 2 yrs of college for her. Of course, she did not get to visit colleges like her other friends and have more choices of where she would attend. I also need to get her a car but I’m waiting for her to land a part-time job. It breaks my heart that all the reasons I worked so hard over the years for my kids’ future don’t matter anymore. She is seeing my counselor for awhile now for a mix of issues from our family life over the years. He’s an N specialist and wonderful with her.

My son 13 struggles with what is going to happen to his dad. Mostly where will he live when the houses sell. He doesn’t want him to go to an apartment or too far away.
And I Fear moving too far in time- although I need to for my sanity – because that may push my son right to live with dad. I couldn’t handle that – it’s hard enough when he picks up the N’s habits now.

Son is also afraid his dad will move in with Skank and my son does NOT want to be there for parenting time.

I’m not sure dad will consider our son’s feelings at all.
You know, Oxy – what rattles me most is trying to understand why I feel so bad for how things have wound up for N – he did all this himself- made decisions without me- and yet I feel bad at times when I look at him and what he has done to even his own life. What the hell is wrong with me? Oh I do hate him too but why shed tears over his fate? There is a sadness – deep – that comes up sometimes like I tried to save him from drowning and just couldn’t. Yet – he took us all down with him. I can’t sort it all out on my own.

Ox Drover

New life, your feeling of sadness that you couldn’t save him from drowning and he took you down with him is so true of many of us.

I tried to save my son Patrick from ruining his life, from getting a criminal conviction record, from going to jail, all the things that he was doing to himself.

I wanted to open up his head and pour in my love and the “right words” to keep him from doing these things to himself, to us.

But we can’t save them from themselves. It is impossible.

I read ann article in the paper this morning about a 2 year old who fell into a pool and drown and they found her 65 year old grandmother in there drowned as well, the grandmother couldn’t swim, but she threw herself in the pool in a futile attempt to save the baby.

We are like that grandmother, throwing ourselves into the pool but we can’t save them.

Because we loved them we want the best for them, and somehow we have come to believe deep down that we are responsible for them, but we are NOT, they are NOT babies, and even if they were, once they are drowned there is no use iin throwing ourselves into the pool to drown with them.


I believe that it is imperative for the children to have as much information as is needed to educate them about the sociopathology of the other parent,

It can not come from mom because there is too much he said she said. It has to come from an expert who can explain to them that their tender feelings will be used against them and that they too will be betrayed of they continue to invest in a relationship with a spath parent.

Its dangerous to them to allow them to think daddy’s ok when he isn’t.

And it is very hard.

But the truth is always safer harbor than fantasy. And IMHO, I’d rather explain that than take risks or face the “Why didn’t you tell me” question later on.

The truth needs to be told in age appropriate language and re told at each level of development because the children have to re process it over and over.

They have seen and heard too much not to be given the opportunity to know what is true.


I knew it was time to end the marriage when my daughter was 14 and asked me why I still tried to make everything normal. As I learned about narcissism and sociopathy I shared some of it but she already had a sense of the dynamic -just not the diagnosis.

For this reason, she sees a counselor who specializes because he knows our story and can more readily help her.

My son is much more protective of his dad but even so he is able to see his dad’s crazy ways.

He often says he can be a jerk but he loves him of course -“he’s my dad”. Son is the golden child with dad as our daughter does not deal with him – only as absolutely needed which isn’t much. He hurt her too deeply and by nature she has little tolerance of his ways.It is difficult to watch how dad needs our son for attention and praise. And naturally, our son is in awe of his talents and abilities -although he reconizes there is not much follow through on projects and promises.

The hard part of divorce is handing over your kids for parenting time and not being able to protect them anymore or even know what goes on.

Ox Drover

Silvermoon your take on things is so good and I am so glad you are here to share them with others. (((hugs)))


I took my kid to a counselor and we talked about what a narcissist / spath / alcoholic is and how to stafe safe around one specifically.

I made sure that kid had a cell phone and knew how to use it.

When my son was older, it was his decision not to go back and he could make it stick.

The only place where he was promised help and didn’t get it has been through the school system. They SUCK! They don’t care about your kid, they care about their jobs. And they take sides. Be very careful in dealing with them. Best way is through and attorney. They listen to lawyers!

Ox Drover

Newlife, I have had many many people tell me, “she’s your motherrrrrr you can’t stay mad at her….” or “he’s your SONNNNNN you can’t give up on him, where there’s life there’s hope”

If I had a dollar for every time someone has said one of those two things to me….I’d be REALLY rich! But DNA doesn’t buy anything with me in the way of a relationship these days.

I’ve had people say “the Bible says to honor your parents” well, yes, it does say that, and I HONOR them by becoming the kind of person which/who would bring honor on anyone who was their parent. It just so happens sadly that I can’t honor myself by interacting with the DNA donors.

Just as my adopted son is the SON OF MY HEART, and my DNA sons are not in my life because even though they have half my DNA they have no love for me in their hearts.



I can’t imagine the heartbreak you have endured yet show so much love and care here. My relationship with my kids has suffered because of him. I hope someday the kids will understand what I lived through too with their dad – the loneliness, all the work around the house, full time job, bank, laundry, baths, bottles – all of it. It wasn’t ever easy to be a robot and smile. Then the depression that came with all the unraveling of just what narcissism/sociopathy is – the relief to find it wasn’t just me and the grief there was nothing I could do to change any of it.

All followed by the financial deceit and devastation , discovering all the unknown affairs and such ….this was all MY private hell they couldn’t understand.

Now is the fight to rebuild and more strength is needed….so tired of being strong.

I pray my kids grow into healthy adults-even with the scars – that genetics or learned behaviors don’t take over either one of them.

My mom was Borderline/narcissistic which made a lot of my exN seem acceptable. It took me years before I was able to tell her to be nicer when she wanted something from me. Years to set some boundaries -sometimes it worked and sometimes not.

The has definitely not been the love and life I had always prayed for – like most of us here – I wanted only the opposite – to love, have a family , some happiness along the way.



I happened to log on today and see your name pop up. After the 4 years of hell you’ve been through, I’m glad to see that you finally have some certainty in your life and can begin to plan for your future. If there’s one thing I learned after my S-ex and then being out of work for a year, it’s the not knowing that kills you. Facts, no matter how bad, you can work with, because at least those facts are certainties.

Over the 4 years I’ve been on this site I’ve followed your story and marvelled at how you kept pushing forward. You’re a strong woman, obviously. Also, you’ve got 2 kids who are clearly resilient and take after you. I think your daughter is going to do okay. The fact of the matter is, a lot more people than you think are doing the community college route – a big driver for this is that it seems that most everybody is going to have to go on to grad school anyhow. So, saving money up front is where more and more people are. The fact that a lot of kids don’t realize is that student loans are essentially liens on your brain – every dollar you don’t have to pay back later on gives you more options.

As for the house, yeah, it is more debt than you want at this stage of your life. I’m the same age as you, and when I moved to DC I ended up taking on a mortgage that was 3 times the size I had before. It bothered me until I finally realized that I probably was not going to spend the rest of my life here and by the time I go to sell that I’ll get a decent price for this place. The thing that works in your favor is that it will be YOUR decision if and when you sell. And you will have the certainty that once the house is in your name, you S-ex can’t pull anymore fast ones on you.

And I think your son over time is goingn to come out of this okay. He isn’t blind where his father is concerned. And I suspect over time that he’s going to wake up more and more to what his father is all about. Since we know that S’s are notorious for not keeping their word, I can almost guarantee that over time he’ll start to disappoint your son – cancelling get togethers, showing up late, not showing up at all — and your son will realize that if he invests a lot of energy in his father, he’ll just end up disappointed.

I just finished my 2 year probation at my new job. A fact. I wake up in the morning and no longer worry about the “what-ifs”. There are no guarantees on the future, but, at least I am the one in the driver’s seat as far as my life is concerned and don’t have to deal with that never ending craziness caused by my S-ex.

Look at it another way – at least you don’t have to run a Portugese barbeque with him.

Good luck on your newlife.



Just noticed your concern about your S-ex draining off assets. Have you considered filing your own liens against the properties? That way if any lender comes along and sees you recorded interest, the lender knows that he will have to stand in line behind you. Hence, no money for the S-ex. Or, if you think he’s going to jack you around on selling, go into court and get an order of judicial partition. Basically, this order requires the property be sold and the proceeds split. Again, once that order is out there, a lender will be very reluctant to allow any kind of remortgaging – they’ll only want to make a loan to the future buyer. I’ll shake my head and see what other ideas may fall out.

Ox Drover

Matt, thank you buddy from the bottom of my heart! That is the kind of information that the rest of us can’t give and you can!
Good to see you and glad to know your job is going well. A two year probationary period! WOW that’s serious investment of time!

Same oh, same oh, around here!



OMG- did you see where I wrote too bad MATT isn’t around ?

I did a little research on clouding the property titles by filing a LIS PENDES. But the divorce attorney doesn’t feel comfortable in the real estate end so I have to consult a real estate attorney.

Can I really file a lien ? I thought they were to collect money owed as in a loan or unpaid bill. I have to do something because I just don’t feel he will wait for the BBQ to be sold. Right now there is $290,000 against the place but if he comes up with 15,000 the whole $105,000.00 goes away on the 2nd lien. He could also get a statement that he only owes 112,000.00 on the first mortgage – thereby leaving a nice chunk of equity to borrow against. The divorce calls for the property to be sold and split – I just have to be sure he doesn’t drain it first.

Matt – can’t thank you enough for your advice- you are a charm. I am so glad to hear such a difference in your writing – settled, content, moved on and making things happen. Can it really be 2 years since you went to your new job? -and in you drop just when you were crossing my mind !!


Congrats on the end of the ‘era’……now onto the next…..cleanup!!!
You’ll do fine…’ve come this far, you’ll do just fine.
Your’e tenacious and gutsy……make YOUR OWN decisions and do what’s best for you and the jr’s.
I’m pleased to hear you’ve moved past the final stage…..and into the next.
DAMN GIRL…’ve fought so hard, whata ya gonna do when it’s ALL said and done…..with all your extra time?!?!



Newlife08, you have shown incredible courage – I’ve been on this site for about 3 years and this is finally coming to some type of close for you.

I wish I could help you with the real estate issue. I’m in a similar situation with the exception of having paid for property with private funds – my own money. At this moment, the exspath fought to make any type of support payment and has effectively, neatly, and cleanly walked away from every joint AND individual financial obligation, including the vehicle that he insisted we purchase a year ago. I’m driving that vehicle and the one that he’s driving has been paid for out of my private funds, as well. I am now facing repossession assignment on Monday which I had agonized over since the day that he left and I learned just how deep into arrears he had allowed us to fall.

So, here’s where I am, now. If the vehicle is repossessed, I cannot control that – I don’t have the money to bring the account up to date or even make a token payment to keep the bank at bay. So what? This is going to pan out the way that it is – I’ve done everything I could from borrowing money to make payment to talking to collection agents, and nothing is going to stop this train from wrecking unless a miracle happens and the exspath suddenly grows a conscience! LOLOLOLOL And, that is simply not going to happen.

I have had to dig down, deep, and see some sort of humor in all of this, and it is a real challenge. But, here’s the truth of it: no matter what, I’m not going to die from this, I’ll be free of the exspath sicko forever, and other people out there have (and, ARE) experienced much, much worse. Thank GOD that we didn’t have children together!!!! Had there been children involved, I can easily see this going on for years and years.

And, I suppose that this whole thing has really demonstrated to me that the exspath did not ever, ever, ever “care” about me or “love” me, by any stretch of the imagination and is, in fact, a full-bore sociopath. Nobody who has an ounce of conscience or remorse would allow such a situation to develop and cause another human being to suffer in this way and then whine and bitch about their ex-partner working full-time. How’s a person going to find and keep a job without transportation? LOLOLOL So, this is the absolute truth: he is a sociopath, he did not care about or love me, and he wants to see me as uncomfortable as possible. And, that’s it. That’s all there is to it, and I either accept the truth and move on, or I can roll over and let this THING break my spirit.

Newlife08, OxD, Silvermoon, and everyone else….we share on this forum, we vent on this forum, and we lay out our greatest fears and the experiences that we’ve endured. But, we also provide courage to one another, hope, and faith that we’re going to be okay. We’ll be changed and things will never be the same, but we’re going to be okay. And, I thank you all for that from the bottom of my heart.


Ox Drover


In spite of your “bad situation” you are seeing comfort in knowing you are going to be “OKAY” and you will be OKAY, because you think you will be and so you will continue to strive to be OKAY. God bless!


OxD, thank you – I’m struggling with this and it looks as if the exspath is going to walk away from what he did without so much as a finger being shaken at him for being such a bad boy.

UGH!!! But, I still have to laugh – he can keep his “gimp suits” and there will come a day when the cops show up to one of his expensive BDSM gatherings because someone was seriously injured or killed.

Oh, brother……….


Wow I want to say thank you. My planned future was robbed and a couple years with my kid stolen that Ill never get back, but I didnt lose everything. He didnt steal $ from me, didnt have to I gave him everything but he did steal everything else. I have finally seen the bright side of my situation and thats that my credit is still in tact, I still have a bit of savings and I didnt lose my home. He cost me a lot and so did the recovery time but I see it could be so much worse. I really needed that right now, thank you.

Ox Drover

1newday, you got out with your life and your home, that’s a lot more than many people get out with. Doesn’t mean you didn’t lose a lot, but you gained a LESSON….so be grateful and thank your Higher Power that you found your way to Love Fraud and know you’re not alone! Have a great day!



Ribht off the top of my head, I would take every receipt that you have for anything you paid for in connection with the property and file a lien for that. Taxes? Check. Oil or gas or electricity to keep the property running? Check. Repairmen? Check. All justifiable expenses that he, as half owner of the property should have been paying. Also, how about looking into the court applying a “constructive trust” over the property? Since he’s already late on the first child support payment, you might be able to get the lawyer to buy the argument that if you don’t secure the equity in the property, you kids will never see a penny. Also, how about getting a restraining order on your ex that prohibits him from doing anything to the property unless you agree to it? That would stop him in his tracks from taking a nickel out. BTW: on any property that is going to be sold and to which you have been contributing to the costs, maintenance, mortgage payments, taxes, etc during the course of your marriage, I would gather every single receipt and put it against the payoff balances – get yourself reimbursed for every cost that your S-ex should have been paying.

Again, I’ll roll the marbles in my brain around and see what else I can come up with.




BTW: I agree completely with ErinB. This is the clean up phase and it will be over soon enough. This is also the phase where you can actually start to plan for your own future. I know one of the things at this moment that his driving you is guilt about your daughter having to live at home for school for a couple of years. Howeverf, this is also the moment where you can’t let your guilt get hold of you. If you’ve been neglecting payments into your retirement, that’s got to step to the front of the line. In other words, you’ve got to pay yourself first. If you’re concerned about liquidity and are eligible, put money into a Roth IRA or 401(k) – there is no penalty for withdrawing the funds since you’ve already paid taxes on them.


I can’t believe someone else has put into words, what I have been dealing with all my life.

“The “inner child” is that part of my development that had been so neglected, so criticized, and so damaged that I developed into a perfect co-dependent victim.”

I have tried in vain to explain this to people. No one gets it. I am always told, “The past is the past, forgive your parents & get over it.” Or some variation of that theme.

I can see now, that my entire life has been a string of one psycho/socio path after another. The sperm donor left when I was 3, and my mother (possibly drove him away with this) did nothing but rage constantly at me. My first friendship in a new town ended in betrayal – I was probably 8 years old. Every significant relationship in my life, almost without fail, has brought one betrayal after another. And it still never fails to hurt just as bad as the first time.

Those who betrayed me, may or may not have all been spaths, but the point is still the same. I have been, and still am, an easy target. I was destined to be the punching bag for whatever social context I found myself in. I could literally fill a book with examples, but my god, what a depressing book that would be!

I believe that I was taught not to expect anything out of life, and my current situation right now, is a reflection of that lesson.

I am working every single day to change that. I do have an amazing, kind, gentle spirited boyfriend now, who wants to see me get stronger. I finally caught a break!


Hi Blackheart2008,

“I have tried in vain to explain this to people. No one gets it. I am always told, “The past is the past, forgive your parents & get over it.” Or some variation of that theme. ”

Oh, we get it, we get it! Anyone who does not get it, I’ve found that it’s best not to try to explain it more than once cuz they’ll probably never get it & that frustrates us & invalidates us. I think some of the things we need most is to be validated, heard and understood.

“I believe that I was taught not to expect anything out of life, and my current situation right now, is a reflection of that lesson. ”
Oh, I get it, me too!

Good to hear you have a nice BF now.



Sorry to read about your s-ex and his skank. I’m sure you know he hasn’t changed and he will treat the skank the same as he treated you.

Hugs go out to you, what strength and courage you have. I am inspired by the strength I hear in your voice.



My spath showed up at my office last week – I’m still reeling from the experience. It helps to come here to LF.


OXY, Matt, Erin, Truthspeak, Athena and others:

I thank you for all your support ….it’s tough times right now cleaning up the house to sell and dealing with the mess he left behind.

I never ask him for anything – NEVER. I made the mistake of asking him to help move some heavy furniture from upstairs to downstairs. When my daughter broke her ankle past August , I had to move her bedroom to a space on the first floor because she couldn’t get up 11 stairs to her room.
She had major surgery bolting and plating the two major ankle bones back together. She had another one in November to remove the biggest bolt. She is still in therapy and stairs give her a fit 7 months later. In addition, if you remember , she had scoliosis and surgery for that – rods and bolts to straighten her spine. At 18 she has daily pain.

So to expect her to help me move her furniture downstairs would be a lot and my son is 13 , although strong as an ox.

The house is going to be on the market April 1 and her makeshift set-up doesn’t show very well . I needed to get her room organized now – also because she likely will never want to navigate the stairs for quite awhile.

I got a scathing e-mail this morning to NEVER ask him again for help. How he tried being friends and making a smooth transition for all of us – OMG – I don’t know whether to laugh or cry – it’s absolutely ridiculous what he wrote .

He says he will no longer be a convenience to me – he is UNAVAILABLE except for the children’s sake.

Dear Lord – help me understand more – the depths of this illness has no bounds. If I showed this to my daughter she would be hysterical and ask what else is new – but it would also still hurt I think to see even more evidence of his craziness.

Well, we moved the dresser yesterday ourselves because I KNEW he wasn’t going to bother. We struggled but got it in place . I have more heavy stuff to get out of the house but it will have to wait. I’m not going to risk our welfare on stuff that is way too heavy and cumbersome.

So good to come here and vent – and warn others of what to expect. My God – what a fine line between loving someone too much and wishing they would drop off a cliff. I am so frustrated with their ability to throw everything onto the other person. All their guilt, shame, plain B/S – we get is smeared all over us.

Ox Drover

Newlife, what projection, what venom! It is almost funny it is so off the wall.

Maybe you could get some of Junior’s big buddies to come help move the furniture. Surely he has 2-3 large friends his age! Worse come to worse, just hire a couple of guys for an hour or two, it shouldn’t be too expensive. Don’t hurt yourself!



Go ahead and laugh. Its so stupid its funny. Its a spathic twitter fit.

If I was without other resources, I’d ask the listing agent if they could help me find help.

A staging company is all about that stuff. And since the house is on the market almost, its all about staging.

Call the realtor if you are using one. Your life may be much improved by getting a real job done anyway.

Don’t risk your welfare or the opportunity to get your home in best shape to sell.

You won’t miss the idiot….


Newlife08, what a jaggov! I would print out that outrageous email and give a copy of it to my attorney – assisting in moving the furniture WOULD have been “cooperating” for the sakes of the children!

I can only say that I thank Whomever Is In Charge that I didn’t produce offspring with the exspath.

We DO have our personal issues “smeared all over us” by the spath – no truer words have been typed! But, I have to believe that we – each one of us – has the “cleanser” in our own possession that will wipe away the slime that the spaths leave behind. I don’t want to give that rat-bastid ANY more of myself than he already took.

I very much appreciate everyone’s input in the past couple of days – this is not to say that the input isn’t always insightful and helpful to me, but just about every post, comment, article, and story has a direct impact on me, personally. Once again, thank you all…..


Clair, you’re right about that – best not to bother. My dad sat by for years while I was abused. He didn’t intercept, didn’t validate my feelings, didn’t protect me. I am now free of my abusive mother – no contact in 1.5 years – i have zero regrets – still some anger at my dad – but he doesn’t get it. I’ve given up trying to explain.

Ox Drover

Athena, trying to explain something like that to your dad is going to be impossible, he “has ears and heareth not, eyes and is blind” as Jesus said. He is in total denial….he has to be. If he accepted what he has allowed he could probably not live with himself, so he is BLIND to it, or his responsibility to put a stop to it.

He is hoodwinked and totally unable to comprehend. He is a dupe.

I’m glad you are NC with your egg donor, and that you are starting to recover. Having some anger issues is natural and expected, but just feel these, and work on these and on getting the bitterness out of your heart toward her, accepting that she is what she is, and it isn’t your fault. You didn’t have the kind of nurturing mother that we all deserve, but “life ain’t fair” so get on with living the life that you make for yourself. Enjoying the life that you can have if you don’t waste it being bitter at her.

Loving ourselves, and letting go of our expectation that we are loved by those we wish loved us helps us to grow in spite of not having those expectations fulfilled.

Loving ourselves! One day at a time!


I so very badly want to emerge from these experiences – I really do. I still have moments when I allow myself, “I wonder if he even thinks about me, at all?” I know the answer, and it may be hurtful, but it’s truthful: he will never lose a moment’s sleep over what he’s done.

Giving in to the hopelessness of the situation is very, very tempting – give in, give up, and dissolve into a helpless pile of goo. Well, if I do that, then the exspath WINS. And, dammit, he’s NOT going to win! I’m gonna win, and I’m gonna do it to the best of my ability.

ONCE AGAIN……Donna, thank you for this site.

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