UPDATED FOR 2024. Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following from a reader who we’ll refer to as “Tanya” about her experience of trying to expose the sociopath.
I was 35 when I met my sociopath — we’ll call him Dave. I was in a top twenty graduate business program — a magnet for narcissists and sociopaths, by the way! A culture that so prizes appearances, financial accumulation, and power must seem irresistible to people with those disorders.
Dave seemed so great at first — attentive, interesting, intelligent, open, honest, fun. My friends warned that he was too flirty — but I only took that as a sign that he was desirable and, hey, I won him over when others had failed.
We were off and on for a few months — the usual drama of dating a pure sociopath took its toll right away. He did very scary things early on, like drink and drive, show up at my door in the middle of the night, call a dozen times a night, etc. etc. In the alcoholic daze that is your typical business school culture, his behavior didn’t stand out as much as it might in real life — but it really should have at the time.
He’s engaged
Finally we broke it off completely. Then one night I got a call from him — he was in Brazil on holiday (he lived there for a few years before coming to Business School) and he was calling to tell me that he was engaged to a girl he’d met there. He put her on the phone so that she could be reassured that he was no longer involved with me. I thought it was crazy, but in my own attempts to CONTROL the crazy (always the first mistake), I took it upon myself to tell his friends at school about the call. I framed it like “Congratulate Dave! He tells me he’s engaged!” He was furious with me when he came back and his friends no doubt thought I was insane.
Later, his “fiance” called me a few times trying to find him. I “googled” her name on my computer — again in an attempt to control the crazy— and found that he had been emailing her from my computer during the time we were dating. Then I found emails he had sent to a sex tourism site called Club Hombre. Over the previous two or three years, he had posted HUNDREDS of emails to this site, explaining his sexual exploits with prostitutes all over the world. His “fiance” was a prostitute. On the boards, he talked a lot about having unprotected sex with prostitutes in Rio and Turkey (both high HIV areas).
I reported what happened
I was so petrified. I went to the school clinic and explained my situation. The nurse told me that I had a one in thirty two chance of having HIV and I had to wait a week for test results to come back (thankfully, negative). During that week I went to my school counselor (a 27 year old kid new on the job) and tried to explain my situation. I brought in print-outs of the postings Dave had made to the sex site, and a note from the clinic explaining the risks he had exposed me to. I wanted to somehow get this guy on record before he put other women in our school at risk, even if it meant humiliating myself. The counselor was skeptical. He asked me if I wanted to file a restraining order and I said “no.” I thought that would only make things worse.
As per procedure, he had to bring Dave in as well. When he asked Dave if HE wanted to file a restraining order, Dave said “yes!” So, as a reward for my efforts to work within the system, I got a restraining order filed against ME for harassing DAVE. One of the worst days of my life.
Can’t control the crazy
That was three years ago, and I still definitely bear the scars of the experience. I try to put the details out of my mind and, even as I read this, I can’t believe it happened.
I do my best to not fault myself for getting involved in the first place. As so many others on your site have said, I was behaving normally in an abnormal situation. What I DO fault myself for is trying to CONTROL the crazy. Every time I tried to control it and expose the sociopath, I only made things worse for myself. The true trauma wasn’t the stuff that happened between me and him, but the stuff that happened when I tried to expose him to others. It was so awful to see how easily sociopaths can bend the system to their will. Before then, I believed I lived in a just, fair world and that I could trust the system to protect me when I needed it. After Dave, I know now that I have to protect MYSELF.
When I’m philosophical about it, I just think that it’s only human to want to believe that we live in an ordered, just world. We want to believe it so much that we ignore the disorder and unfairness RIGHT IN FRONT OF US, and this blind spot is where the sociopath functions. I’m so thankful that I emerged with much less damage than some others. I only wish that there was a way to constructively deal with this — to raise awareness about sociopathy in the same way that people raise awareness about cancer or drug abuse.
Thank you again for your site — it was cathartic to share my story.
Learn more: How to report your abuser’s crimes so the police take you seriously
Lovefraud originally posted this story on Dec. 16, 2009.
How the messages we hear all our lives keep us vulnerable to sociopaths
Tanya
Yes I really relate to that experience. I went through a phase of actually following him on-line and watching what he was doing! (chatting explicitly to other women in a sleazy sexual way duh!!) He is foreign and does not speak my language but good old me translated it all with the help of google translate!
I think the forum was a prostitute haven where they exchange support and tips etc. It chilled my blood and I actually had to stop myself from getting more and more shocked by reading through it every evening. It was actually affecting my recovery. I don’t do it anymore.
I have 5 months no contact. No following him. I won’t allow myself bring him to court. He is far too sleazy, dangerous and I feel it in my belly he could turn the tables on me, and frankly my life is more precious than getting even with that moron. I was driven demented from trying to control crazy, I could feel my sanity slipping down the drain as the obsession to expose him took hold. I resisted the temptation.
Now something different is happening…..as I wake up each day, less scared than before , I feel closer and closer to an amazing thing and that is I ESCAPED! ….and I’m grateful! I can’t feel full on happy yet, but I can smell it around the corner IF I manage to let go let go….He is not worthy of my exposing him, in all likelihood it might help him…and I don’t want to lift one finger for him again!
I just hope he does not sense my freedom and that I am feeling happier, more dignified….because if he came back I would be frightened. I think sufficiently to tell him the 3 words I have left for him “GO TO HELL”
Thanks Tanya
First ”“ thank you for sharing your story. I fully understand the pain you endured trying to “out” the psychopath. But three years out and much shame later, I do not agree with your conclusion.
It is not moral to expose someone to deadly diseases. By cheating on you- he was repeatedly pulling a trigger, playing with your life, your fertility and definitely your sanity. There’s something wrong with counselors who ask the perp if they want to file a restraining order against the victim. The naïve counselor is to blame, not you.
Is it worth it to expose the psycho? Not always, but that decision is up to the victim. Sometimes it’s better to lose your home, money and reputation to save your life and sanity. But sometimes, with legal help, we can protect our assets and out a psycho.
We do not know what our story teaches others, how it effects what they do in the future. Staying silent at all costs, out of fear of the psycho sometimes is wise, but not always. The key is responding in the manner we want, after serious reflection and review of our particular situation.
Others disbelief and shaming of us, is a reflection of their ignorance about psychopathy- that’s all.
That said, I do believe no contact makes them suffer unlike most any other punishment.
http://holywatersalt.blogspot.com/search/label/no%20contact
Dear Tanya,
I was just discussing with a professional (mental health( yesterday about what happens to “whistle blowers” who try to point out that there is someone in a group (ususally a P) doing bad things that can and do IMPACT BADLY on other people’s lives.
You took the high road and did what any HONEST PERSON would do, and YOU GOT PUNISHED FOR BEING HONEST. Both my mental health professional and I (retired advnaced practice nurse( have both STOOOD UP–only to get knocked down, we have also occsaionally stood up and helped, but more times we have realized that it isn’t any use setting ourseves up to be burned at the stake like Joan of Arc.
I have been watching a series on TV called the “Good wife” a middle aged attorney (just starting out in her career as a junion associate at a big firm with lots of ETHICAL issues. Her P husband was a big state attorney who had an affiar publicly revealed, and also convicted of kick backs and is in prison.
The show is good and I like it because of the ETHICAL questions that come up and the RESULTS, which are not always “winners” for the good guys, and not always losers either, but a GOOD show I thiink.
I think most of us have struggled with the “to out him” or “No0 to out?” Well, I UNSUCCESSFULLY outed a few, and got punished for doing it. But at the same time I didn’t always stand up to be counterd, I am not frustrated about any of this any more, I did the best I coujld do at tyhe time I did it so I am not beating myself up about those choices in the past. I am trying to be more understanding of those that don’t choose to out one, but I do know that all it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing.
Thankyou for sharing your story … that must have been so horrible to live through.
It is a tricky question whether to out them or not. Usually they only let the mask slip in front of one person so everyone else thinks they are marvellous and wonderful! When you add to that the crazy behaviours we end up exhibiting after prolonged contact with them and the character assasination they perpetrate on us to friends it’s no surprise that people don;t believe what we say. The other factor is people don;t want to believe we have wolves in our midst – it ruins their carefully constructed worldview – we only have to look at how rape victims are perceived to have confirmation of Just World Theory.
Perhaps in the end no contact speaks louder than any lecture we could give on sociopathy – the fact that we stay far from evil might give people an indication that something is amiss. Who knows?
I tried to out him to a neighbour we both knew and he put his hands up and said “I don;t want to know the details” – nice! He also said the P had said things about me but wouldn;t disclose what they were – I wanted to shout at him “This is not a normal breakup and you can;t trust a word he says – he’s sick!” But what is the point?
It’s hard enough to recover from the pain of it without making another rod for my own back. Stephen Covey talks about limiting your efforts to your own Circle of Influence – those who are receptive to what you have to say rather than the brainwashed gimps associated with the P. I will educate in other ways and to people who actually are open to understanding – to do otherwise would be a repeat of the relationship – a futile exercise in banging my head against a wall and getting nowhere!
Have a fab day everyone and laugh at least twenty times today!~
“What I DO fault myself for is trying to CONTROL the crazy. Every time I tried to control it and expose him, I only made things worse for myself. The true trauma wasn’t the stuff that happened between me and him, but the stuff that happened when I tried to expose him to others. It was so awful to see how easily sociopaths can bend the system to their will. Before then, I believed I lived in a just, fair world and that I could trust the system to protect me when I needed it. After Dave, I know now that I have to protect MYSELF.”
This is what I’ve found as well. My situation wasn’t even half as bad as yours, but I learned the same lesson.
Never try to out a cluster B. Just go no contact. They will still attach your character a bit, but that’s nothing compared to what they do if they feel threatened by you.
We aren’t like them, and we aren’t able to employ the same depraved tactics they are. Better to just walk away.
I so understand this. I have been labeled a trouble maker, because I want to make sure my ex s/p doesn’t use his government job any more as a feeding ground for other women.
I only fell prey to him because I believed every one at work what a faithful husband he’d been to his first wife who passed away… only to find out he’d had at any given time, half the women under his authority either in bed with him, or on the way.
I was away for a little over a year on a rotation at work, and now I am looking at going back in January.
I’m going back into an environment that already broke me emotionally before. To a place where the person who abused me and knows what buttons to push, has a position of honor. To a place where the boss who I used to think of like family, has made it clear he thinks I imagined the abuse. To a place the place where the CIO told me it was my own fault because I trusted what my co-workers said of him instead of my own gut feelings. To a place that I have been threatened more then once and by more then one person, that I could lose my job if I foolishly enlighten my co-workers gross misconceptions of him so they do not repeat their mistakes of the past with me and put some other poor soul in harms way.
Let’s not forget the co-worker that I caught him red handed with when we were still dating, and is now hostile towards me because she thinks I broke her up with him by tattling on them. And btw, I even got in trouble for telling on them, though he was her lead worker, and it was against rules!
My attempts to help myself seem to all come out at a dead end, and I have no power in and of myself to change the outcome. It makes me feel like a sitting duck… like a victim all over again.
I am very scared. I am scared, and for good reason. But even telling myself to just hide in my cubical and not say a word to any one, isn’t convincing. I know myself too well. One day someone will come up and ask how I’m feeling, and I will tell them that and much more. It’s a bomb waiting to go off.
This is probably one of the most important issues I am dealing with right now. Do I out him or not?!?! I’ve stayed strong with the no contact and do believe it’s the best way to go, but still feel this need to out him. I am the only one that got close enough to know the ugly truth of him. All the drugs, the promiscuity. Maybe his wife would like to know that he sits at home sometimes and drinks and snorts lines until he has to pick his 9 year olds up from school! Or where he keeps the cocaine in the house…in his cufflink boxes. Maybe she would like to know about the 19 year old he was cheating on me with..(he’s 41.) Or any of the other girls that I found out about after the fact. Maybe his parents would like to know the truth about their golden child?? Maybe his ramp managing job at LAX would like to know that he comes to work high all the time. God there are so many things that I know I could destroy him with. And he would deserve it. I so want to out him. This man put my health at risk! This man lied and manipulated. This man puts his kids and the lives of passengers at risk! Why shouldn’t I out him????? He doesn’t care about me or anybody else, why should I pretend that I don’t know what I know and bite my tongue? I bit my tongue for 4 years! Look where it got me. But the only thing I worry about is him coming after me if I call his wife and tell her the truth. I guess that’s the only reason I’ve kept quiet. I don’t think my life is worth ratting him out. Believe me, I’ve given this much thought. It drives me to the edge of insanity sometimes. Everyone says, karma will get him!! Well maybe I’M his karma!!!! Anyone ever thought of that?? Maybe I’m the one that’s supposed to put him in his place. I’ve given this much thought. I have ways of outing him that would keep me safe. Or that would not make him suspect it was me. We used to take an annual vacation to Miama every spring. Well, we had already booked our condo for the upcoming year. I know he will still go. Probably have another woman in the bed that we once shared. But I know that a week in Miami is a week fueled with cocaine. I’d like to call his work annonymously, this upcoming March, and tell them that I know that this man who is going to baord the plane, who is also their employee, is going to be high as a kite. And if you have any doubts?? Have him pee in a cup. He’s your employee right?? You have every right to ask him to if you suspect anything. I can guarantee that it will come back positive! But I would only be able to tell them what I know if they can GUARANTEE me that they will keep my side of the story annonymous and deny that someone ratted him out. I think this is the only way I can out him for anything without him thinking I had anything to do with it. Then he’ll lose his job and maybe his world will finally come crashing down. He’ll lose his job, have to explain to the family why, and good luck getting another job once you’ve been fired for drug use! I just don’t think it’s fair that he continues to live his life and put other people’s in jeopardy. And he’ll continue to. He deosn’t have a conscious. He deserves what he gets. I’m working on me right now and that’s all that’s important. But I can’t get over this desire and urge to out him. Maybe it will pass by the time March comes around. Or maybe I’ll just chicken out. But I do feel that his work should be notified. This man is operating the ramp for a major airline completely drugged up and sometimes going for days without sleeping. Would you want to get on a plane that was under his control??? I’m trying to figure out if I’m doing the right thing or just trying to get revenge. I guess that’s something that I will have to figure out for myself.
And from the orignial post…. “I only wish that there was a way to constructively deal with this to raise awareness about sociopathy in the same way that people raise awareness about cancer or drug abuse.”
I couldn’t agree with this more. This personality type needs to be exposed and maybe if people were aware before they got involved, and some of us wouldn’t be where we are now. I think my sister and some friends are sick of hearing about the dangers of a sociopath. They roll their eyes at me and look at me like I’m nutts. But they just don’t know!! I just repsond that they don’t understand what I’ve been through and hopefully they don’t ever have to experience what I’ve been through. They just don’t get it that it’s not your run of the mill, didn’t work out, end of a relationship and move on…lol…if it were only that simple. So thank you for this post today.
Hi Amber,
I’ve wrestled with this issue also–to out him or not…I tried a “mini-outing” and it completely backfired…he is a clinical psychologist and I made the mistake of trying to talk confidentially with a casual friend of his (and I thought mine also) also a psychologist.
Result? I was labeled crazy and projecting etc etc…and he went ballistic.
What I wrestle with now is knowing he’s gay and the last 3 wives do not know that…should I tell them? Probably not, but for #3 she might get some insight into why he never wanted to have sex with her. (she’s the only one who lives in CA, the only 1 I know how to contact)
He never wanted sex with me, except in the beginning of the relationship. He blamed me for our lack of sex life, even after admitting he’s gay. lol
He’s moved across country now and is on Match and eHarmony looking for a new relationship. I hope the women he meets are somehow more savvy and don’t follow through on a relationship.
He’s a textbook N/P dressed in transpersonal psychology. Too much stuff happened to even begin to recount. I feel lucky he did not kill me as he threatened to.
I’m in the process of just letting it go. Maybe Ps don’t really care all that much if their life crashes down–it’s a false construct anyway and they can create another one, and blame you for whatever happened…if that makes sense? He’ll find a way to make you the perp and him the victim.
They don’t care what they have to say or do as long as it gets them what they want and need. The ends always justify the means.
My sister is world famous with a high profile and is a total P. It’s strange but I think some people need a guru and she’s great at filling that need…while destroying and intimidating everyone who might possibly criticize her. It’s kind of stunning–I wonder if someone will one day put the pieces together and say the Emperor has no clothes…but no, not so far…maybe not ever.
I agree this personality type needs to be exposed but do please consider yourself first. The chances people will believe you might be smaller than you (and I) hope.
It’s difficult seeing my sister pop up on TV all the time, etc but I’ve learned to let it go. I can’t save her victims (her children and countless others without her power). She needs me to be squashed down and I refuse to live that way. I am not wealthy as she is (multi-millionaire) in fact I am quite poor. But as they say, “living well is the best revenge” and in my case it’s true….I am creating a life I enjoy, which will drive her up the wall…If I ever achieved anything she’d go nuts…and try (again) to destroy me…we have no contact and it’s for the best. She is so into her image she’s lost contact with reality…for example, telling me she’d “lived in the UK for 2 years.” Well….I was there in the UK and it was 4 months. I got a chill when she said that about the 2 years—doesn’t she know who to lie to and who to not lie to? Or has she incorporated this lie into her personal history and can’t tell the truth from her creation/persona? No idea. (and 1 example of hundreds–I read what she writes about her background and laugh now—total fabrication for dazzling effect)
Live and let live. My motto—still working on it.
Best to you, and please put yourself first. You know you aren’t crazy, you know what happened. It’s great to be validated, but sometimes it’s enough that we know what happened, we know the truth, and we can move on. And here on Lovefraud, you *are* validated and we do believe you!
Anytime that I have outted a predator, or bad actor.. it has come back to haunt me and even to harm me. But I have always prevailed in the long run and, at times, even able to witness how they did get ‘theirs’…but at the time, it almost crushed me to stand up to them.. because they will do whatever it is that they can and are able to do to get back at anyone who shows them for what they are or stands up to them.. from little to big… I have learned to limit exposure and to always be in protective mode.. I recently had a former minister try to mess me over on a business situation.. it is just amazing what is going on in the world these days…
A friend recently told me that I have the strength of 10 men because my heart is pure… and that is something for us all to hold onto…
Know the truth in your heart, release the need to wonder why that they treated you how they did.. just know what was really done.. and move on..
Hi Tanya, Elizabeth and fellow survivors.
I had a very similar experience to yours and I understand your frustration. I do not regret exposing the sociopath I had to deal with, however. Regrettably people in positions of authority are not always trained to handle situations like these. Your school counsellor sounds very incompetent!!
But usually sociopaths don’t only con women and as time goes by their lies become more and more difficult to sustain – it is always good to plant the seed of doubt, even if in the process some people may think for a while you’re the crazy one, eventually it will all add up when they realise they are also victims. One day he might for instance borrow money from one of the people in your class and not return it, show his agressive side, etc…It is probably safer to talk first to people who know you well; and also those who know him well enough – not the potential accomplices or “enablers” – because a lot of people will have spotted weird things already, even if they had given him the benefit of the doubt so far. That’s my experience anyway. At the end of the day, bar one very incompetent person, most people believed me. It is better to try and get witnesses on your side, print out evidence etc. Try and stay rational and in control. The more emotional you are, the easier it will be for the sociopath to make others believe you’re the crazy one.
To Elizabeth: I agree in a way; but at the same time I wonder about one thing: for those of us who have been manipulated by a sociopath, is it possible that they keep manipulating us afterwards by creating that fear we have that they will always win? Are they really that powerful? They usually don’t have such a good track record. If you have witnesses and evidence and a good lawyer it is unlikely that they can turn a court against you. If in doubt get legal advice and find out exactly what the claims he could make against you would be worth. Be vigilant, of course, but don’t allow him to keep scaring you.