UPDATED FOR 2024. Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following from a reader who we’ll refer to as “Tanya” about her experience of trying to expose the sociopath.
I was 35 when I met my sociopath — we’ll call him Dave. I was in a top twenty graduate business program — a magnet for narcissists and sociopaths, by the way! A culture that so prizes appearances, financial accumulation, and power must seem irresistible to people with those disorders.
Dave seemed so great at first — attentive, interesting, intelligent, open, honest, fun. My friends warned that he was too flirty — but I only took that as a sign that he was desirable and, hey, I won him over when others had failed.
We were off and on for a few months — the usual drama of dating a pure sociopath took its toll right away. He did very scary things early on, like drink and drive, show up at my door in the middle of the night, call a dozen times a night, etc. etc. In the alcoholic daze that is your typical business school culture, his behavior didn’t stand out as much as it might in real life — but it really should have at the time.
He’s engaged
Finally we broke it off completely. Then one night I got a call from him — he was in Brazil on holiday (he lived there for a few years before coming to Business School) and he was calling to tell me that he was engaged to a girl he’d met there. He put her on the phone so that she could be reassured that he was no longer involved with me. I thought it was crazy, but in my own attempts to CONTROL the crazy (always the first mistake), I took it upon myself to tell his friends at school about the call. I framed it like “Congratulate Dave! He tells me he’s engaged!” He was furious with me when he came back and his friends no doubt thought I was insane.
Later, his “fiance” called me a few times trying to find him. I “googled” her name on my computer — again in an attempt to control the crazy— and found that he had been emailing her from my computer during the time we were dating. Then I found emails he had sent to a sex tourism site called Club Hombre. Over the previous two or three years, he had posted HUNDREDS of emails to this site, explaining his sexual exploits with prostitutes all over the world. His “fiance” was a prostitute. On the boards, he talked a lot about having unprotected sex with prostitutes in Rio and Turkey (both high HIV areas).
I reported what happened
I was so petrified. I went to the school clinic and explained my situation. The nurse told me that I had a one in thirty two chance of having HIV and I had to wait a week for test results to come back (thankfully, negative). During that week I went to my school counselor (a 27 year old kid new on the job) and tried to explain my situation. I brought in print-outs of the postings Dave had made to the sex site, and a note from the clinic explaining the risks he had exposed me to. I wanted to somehow get this guy on record before he put other women in our school at risk, even if it meant humiliating myself. The counselor was skeptical. He asked me if I wanted to file a restraining order and I said “no.” I thought that would only make things worse.
As per procedure, he had to bring Dave in as well. When he asked Dave if HE wanted to file a restraining order, Dave said “yes!” So, as a reward for my efforts to work within the system, I got a restraining order filed against ME for harassing DAVE. One of the worst days of my life.
Can’t control the crazy
That was three years ago, and I still definitely bear the scars of the experience. I try to put the details out of my mind and, even as I read this, I can’t believe it happened.
I do my best to not fault myself for getting involved in the first place. As so many others on your site have said, I was behaving normally in an abnormal situation. What I DO fault myself for is trying to CONTROL the crazy. Every time I tried to control it and expose the sociopath, I only made things worse for myself. The true trauma wasn’t the stuff that happened between me and him, but the stuff that happened when I tried to expose him to others. It was so awful to see how easily sociopaths can bend the system to their will. Before then, I believed I lived in a just, fair world and that I could trust the system to protect me when I needed it. After Dave, I know now that I have to protect MYSELF.
When I’m philosophical about it, I just think that it’s only human to want to believe that we live in an ordered, just world. We want to believe it so much that we ignore the disorder and unfairness RIGHT IN FRONT OF US, and this blind spot is where the sociopath functions. I’m so thankful that I emerged with much less damage than some others. I only wish that there was a way to constructively deal with this — to raise awareness about sociopathy in the same way that people raise awareness about cancer or drug abuse.
Thank you again for your site — it was cathartic to share my story.
Learn more: How to report your abuser’s crimes so the police take you seriously
Lovefraud originally posted this story on Dec. 16, 2009.
How the messages we hear all our lives keep us vulnerable to sociopaths
EB suggested in another thread not using the terms ‘sociopathy’ or ‘psychopathy’ initially but instead tantalising people with the term ‘Cluster B’s’. Then they ask “What’s that?” and you can start explaining. I think this is a great strategy as people I have mentioned sociopathy or psychopathy to … well I get the impression they think I am exaggerating or being a bit of a drama queen – nothing could be further from the truth! He’s every bit as dangerous as the title connotes.
And Eileen I believe they are capable of anything – they can win anyone over, putting on such a show about how good and helpful they are and how they were done so badly by us crazy women! I think they do know about the time bomb they plant in our brains – I think it gives them great pleasure to know we continue to suffer after the relationship is over. I have become very bland in my dealings with the P – we are still sorting out legalities so have to remain in limited contact for now – two line emails mostly. I don’t let him know if I suffer and I don’t make out my life is great either. It’s none of his business – he had plenty of chances to be a big part of my life and screwed up every single one – therefore he is now nothing to me. It took me many years of agony to get this detached from him and reading here at the site really helped me to get to this point.
I have no doubt his friends feel sorry for him having to put up with such a bitch as myself – if only they knew the true story they wouldn’t be so quick to pity, but then again invoking pity is one of his major skills – he should really put it on his CV!
CA Mom – your ex was a psychologist?! Why the heck aren’t professions like this screening people as a mandatory element in application? I think we should be screening for mental health in vocations like teaching, counselling, psychology, social work etc – these people do untold damage to vulnerable folk. It just baffles me that our current screening for mental health is merely the absence of any long term diagnosed condition or a long stay in a psych ward.
Plenty of Ps fly well under the radar and can charm the birds from the trees. We should have mandatory screening for professions linked to helping people at a minimum. Would you want your elderly relative cared for by a P in a retirement home? I certainly wouldn’t. Imagine the power they could weild over those who are weakened in any way – most of us have already experienced it – fortunately for us we are able to limp away on our own. Anyone can drum up good character references but this doesn’t mean mental health by any stretch of the imagination!
I hope I see this in my lifetime – we have turned education into a purchasable commodity – if you have the money you can train in any career regardless if you are fit mentally and emotionally or not – that’s crazy!
Hello all, a delicate issue for sure. I would say that “outing” is fair game, and makes sense, ONLY if there is a good chance of saving someone else the agony of being burnt by the P, or there is some other positive outcome for yourself. Otherwise, it just feeds into their drama, and ends up being”all about them” and they can trumpet their victim status to great effect.
Time will tell in my case, as he is going through the divorce courts with me. Only teeny weeny problem is, if I hang tough and we go to trial he will be outing himself. : ) : ) because, the gov’s tax people look at these cases (which become part of the public record). In his case, he is openly admitting a potential multi-million $ tax debt, and the court records state (through my application) that he moved us out of the country to avoid it. Aaaawww…. will he out himself?
Reminds me of the story about how to catch a live monkey. Put out a vase shaped jar with a narrow neck and put some peanuts in the bottom. Chain the jar to the ground. The monkey will put his hand in and grab the peanuts, and refuse to let go. Of course his “hand” won’t come out of the jar because he is holding a fist. I am told they will sooner starve to death than let go and move on. Well that is just the kind of greed I am dealing with. Mindless, self defeating, putrid greed.
CAMom, mine turned out to be gay as well. Most macho, straight, straight straight appearances not withstanding. And yes he blamed me for our shitty sex life too. NEVER touched me unless he wanted sex…and what there was of it was totally perfunctionary, unconnected, mechanical and empty. No wonder I didn’t much care for it (after the honeymoon wore off).
I wonder if the ones that are gay and masquarading as straight do it (have affairs, marriages etc with women) because A) they hate themselves, B) they hate women?
Probably both. I used to occaisionally make a sarcastic joke that my ex P would calculate his net worth every morning before getting out of bed. Now I realize what a huge clue that should have been. It is probably the only remotely “real” thing about himself that he can rely on. Everything else is lies.
I cannot imagine all the wasted energy that goes into keeping all those lies afloat, or the vigilence it takes to keep building up new ones. He hasn’t even introduced his sons to the woman he now lives with, probably to save himself the effort, and reduce the risk of being exposed. Who knows what new lies he is gaming now. (aside from having found salvation in “the catholic church, ouch).
Amber, in your case, where the safety of a great many people may be put at risk, I understand you genuine concerns.
Perhaps there is a way to email his employer, anonomously, from an internet cafe, lets say. At least you will have done your level best to protect others from his reckless indifference. Just a thought.
Peace and love to all.
Dear Tanya,
Thank you so much for sharing your story. I TOTALLY relate to this. I’ve sat in the same seat you have when it comes to being punished for being honest. Ox, I liked what you had to say about this as well. I tried a thousand times to give others a “heads-up” on what this person was and was called a liar for being honest. It’s going to take what it takes for others to really SEE and HEAR just as it did for each of us.
I am watching others be used now by my Ex. P and I’ve stepped out of the picture. I was blamed for everything this idiot did by others and I CHOSE to take the high road of honesty. I STILL take the high road and for those who cannot yet see my ex P for what he really is, they will at some point. He was, and is, a master at twisting whatever I said or did to make himself come out looking like the victim. WHEN he WAS busted, he would play the “I know I made a little mistake and I’m so sorry I hurt anyone.” followed, of course, by an ocean of tears. I quit buying this ages ago, but others haven’t. The only thing I can do is pray for them, even while not particularly liking them at this point, that they will see him for what he really is before he’s taken them for all they’re worth.
Tanya, you brought up a wonderful topic with your story. Honestly, I’ve gotten to the point where it stings far more from those who believe him than from he himself. I KNOW where he’s coming from. They don’t. Yet, it still hurts at times. I am still going to take that high road and I know that for me, keeping silent right now is the best thing I can do for ME. I can’t help them, but I can help me. In the meantime, there are days I want to scream because I KNOW the truth and yet putting it into words would only come back on me.
I also know some will NEVER get the truth, but I have to say I agree with whomever mentioned the phrase, “cluster B’s”. That could very well be an opening to an educational conversation with others.
Hugs to all,
Cat
Dear Cat,
I think we have to learn these things, and to listen to our guts about it, when we are ready to learn. They are so GOOD AT FLATTERY that people fall for it–God knows I DID! Oh, yes, I fell for the flattery, my egg donor fell for the flattery, and HATED MY TRUTH (which was NOT flattery) so you know, if you question their judgment of falling for the flattery, it is almost like you are telling them the OPPOSITE OF FLATTERY in that you are telling them that the P is a liar, they are NOT the best thing sinice sliced bread and they DO NOT WANT TO HEAR THE TRUTH.
So, just as we fell for the flattery and had to learn THE HARD WAY, so will they, Unfortunately, many humans (including me) don’t always learn FROM OTHERS MISTAKES. LOL The invalidate your experience jor accuse you of ulterior motives in order not to have to hear the truth. As Jesus said, they have ears but hear not, they have eyes but see not! Yep, that is it!
Going no contact isn’t about fear, it’s about returning the highest possible quality of life ASAP. It’s also about not wasting time convincing people of the obvious.
OxDrover said: “if you question their judgment of falling for the flattery, it is almost like you are telling them the OPPOSITE OF FLATTERY in that you are telling them that the P is a liar, they are NOT the best thing sinice sliced bread and they DO NOT WANT TO HEAR THE TRUTH.”
If everyone in the world woke up tomorrow and started claiming the sky was green, would you bother to contradict them? If you woke up one morning and realized the sky was green, would you continue to claim it was green even though it still looked blue to everyone else? Why bother? Don’t you have better things to do with your time? Do you really want to become socially isolated over a matter so trivial?
People either know how to recognize cluster B personality disorders, or they don’t. If they don’t know what they’re dealing with, it’s at least in part because they don’t want to know. They’re not going to thank you for ripping their rose colored glasses off and exposing their delicate sight to the the merciless sting of unfiltered daylight. They’ll see this as an assault, and perhaps they’re right.
If you don’t have things to do, people to see and places to go that have nothing to do with the cluster B, it’s time to find them.
I read everyone post and that has been a heavy on my heart, I want to out him so bad I can taste it. I know that he’s back living with his ex wife Used me until all my money is gone and didn’t give me back a red penny then left. Funny because he still was trying to portray like he was alone. He’s the biggest liar on this earth, he text me an told the reason I turning on him is because I let the devil in my space I told him that is the only truth he ever told me since I met him Dec 2008 because he is the devil nobody with a good intentions can take from a mother and her children and leave her for broke nobody with empathy. Its like I just want to tell people about the type of person he is I often wonder do his ex wife know what kind of man he is, if she do how in the hell can she be with this person I wonder has he told her what he has done to me, I feel like such a fool for stepping aside an letting the devil in my space because I wanted to be love and cared for!
Conley, maybe I’m confused are you saying that people want to out the S’s because they don’t have things to do with there own time?
Hello all – I have come back after a few weeks break because it is so overwhelming emotionally for me to deal with this. I spent four days with my mom over Thanksgiving, and came back to find a serious problem. I came back and read a thread – fairly recent but I can’t remember which one – where Oxy and several other told stories of what they had been through and was jusy completely bawling and a total mess by the time I got to the end of it, and decided that I needed to just lighten up for a while because it is just so difficult to deal with.
As I know Pollyannamore has posted on this I have had fibromyalgia for 20 years and it doesn’t get any easier, especially in the areas of sleep, concentration, and memory. I came back and of course could neither remember my login name or password! Obviously, I have now solved this little problem!
I need advice because I am now in a difficult situation that I thought was fairly safe. I packed up everything almost 2 years ago and moved back to my hometown. I decided that I did not currently have the financial resources to get my own place, so I looked for a roommate. I tried to find the most stable situation I could find, and ended up moving in with a woman who
1) lived in the community her whole life
2) had owned and been in the same home 20 years
3) had a grown daughter out of college, a nice young lady
4) her home was nice and clean and taken care of
5) was about my age – 51 (I am 53)
6) had experienced some chronic illness of her own
I was so proud of myself – I had found a safe place and with someone who it seemed I got along very well with. Her daughter ended up living here for 8 months until she found a good job. This was back in August.
Long story short I take pain meds – try not to during the day if possible but cannot sleep AT ALL without pain and sleep meds.
I kept noticing the amounts of my meds would not seem right. I would call the pharmacist saying they must have made an error. My pharmacist told me – “Is there any chance that someone could be stealing your meds?” and I said no, I don’t think so. Part of it has to do with my memory problems and not being sure I did not make a mistake myself.
I also told my physician – he said this stuff is worth money – you need to get a lock box. Well a couple of moths ago I did.
When 3 people lived here there was no way of knowing which one might be taking it. Now, four months later, apparently only ONE can be taking it. This woman has a very charming personality and I really thought she was trustworthy – heck, I know where she lives, works, goes to church, and who she hangs out with. There are no strangers entering the house, in fact almost no one.
I got my meds before T-day and was careful to count what I had. Locked everything up in my little box, took one key with, and buried the other key in a bronze container full of makeup.
Came back after T-day, pulled my lockbox out, and it was OPEN, and almost exactly half of my monthly meds were gone.
I know you guys in the health care system will not be surprised at this, but I called my mom and she said that is outrageous and brazen – she must have found the key. She said carry both keys with you and all your meds with you, which I am but I do not like the idea. It feels more vulnerable than leaving it “safe” at home.
First I got angry. The next day I called a friend and asked if she could recommend a lawyer. My financial situation is somewhat better than it was a year ago, enough to get a small apt. myself, and have my stuff shipped down from storage. This woman had been a realtor in the past, and said she had to do a credit check on me by law. I gave her some financial information. What – she’s going to disappear tomorrow!? Not likely. I fully intend to cover my ass.
My mom says she’s delusional, and is worried about me. I said Mom this is an inconvenience, but nothing you should worry about. I am not feeling so strong now. I fully intend to do or say NOTHING until I have made evry arrangement and have my own place to live. My problem is I cannot even pretend to like her anymore – what the hell does she expect?
She acts like everything is fine and dandy. SHe must really think I am an idiot by now – she doesn’t think I am going to notice? She took HALF – over 30 pills. And when I think of all the times in the last year I was short on meds and the suffering I go through when that happens. Now I am feeling all the stress of having to live a lie. I cannot behave in the same way, because stress makes my illness worse, and makes it difficult to do what I need to do. I am probably bedridden 3 or 4 days a week from fatigue, pain, or both, and only one or 2 days a week look fairly normal and can go out and do things.
Anyway, I saw the subject of this post and said – hmmmmm, what do these ladies and gents have to say. She is really a horrible person – but I cannot say that it was ever very obvious to me. She has never appeared to be high or using. It’s just now that I am SURE of what I suspected, there was a weekday she did not go to work and slept most of the day. I decided I am going to have a real good look at her. I was in the kitchen reading the paper and she came in looking dazed and disoriented, and babbling a bit. I stood up to talk to her so I could look her right in the eyes. They were dilated more than mine. I know a nurse would be able to tell better than me – my mom worked in a hospital for 30 years and they have had staff caught using etc.
It takes energy I don’t really have to act normal in this situation. I do NOT want to confront her, and worry what will happen when she can’t get a new supply (which I will refill today). But she can’t possibly think I don’t know?? Or can she?? I pretty much made up my mind that I have nothing to gain by confronting her. I am upset because I really had no clue. I barely even believe it now.
I will go to the lawyer and tell her this woman has financial information. That concerns me, because that part will not be over when I leave. When I am out, I will tell her that I have done so and she better not mess with me. I will feel good on that day, but I ain’t feelin so very good now.
I have just been avoiding her and not saying much – but that’s the norm most of the time anyway. I am afraid of repercussions, like you have stated so well in the above posts.
At least I will be able to get out, but not soon enough for me.
I now know not to tell ANYONE what I take or why I take it. I wish I didn’t have to take it because it is a pain in the ass, but I have to be realistic.
I have a pretty long way to go, I think. Physically it will be extremely difficult to move, which is why I avoided it for so long. I have pinched nerves and stenosis in my neck, so getting groceries or doing laundry can cause a flareup of migraine-like pain during which I can hardly move. This happens once a week. I have had nerve blocks but am going to see a neurologist because I will probably need surgery of some kind.
I was not sure if I was up to it. She has pushed me into this decision, which might be a good thing overall. But it is very scary. Is it possible that she could pick the lock on the lockbox? I cannot afford to find out. I just think if she had found the key, like my mom says, wouldn’t she have locked it back? I think she may have picked it somehow. If you picked it obviously there would be no way to lock it up again.
Any advice on how to handle this person would be appreciated. In the meantime I will be hiding in my room.
Yikes! I really thought somehow I was leaving past dramas behind. I guess the next couple of months will be “a learning experience” as they say. I am so glad to have found this site.
I know others have it worse, especially with children involved. I should know, I used to be one of those children a long time ago. Get them out when you can.
Luv716,
Once you look, I mean really take a good long HARD look at how much energy it takes to be involved with this toxic POISON in your life (in any way)
…You have to also ask yourself : “Why would you want to drain yourself of your energies like that so early in your recovery”?
This is a personal choice. Some people HAVE outted their S/P/N. Some with success and some without the sucess they hoped for.
Because one thing is for certain if you choose to make it your mission to “out him” you have to put other things aside.
But you have to make that choice for yourself. What do you hope for in the outcome and how much energy do you have to put into this? And how important is it?
Some of that same energy could be used for your own benefit and your children as well. The healing process is a long and hard process. If your focus is on “outing him” that can be a slippery slope to climb and will also take the focus off of you. And other things that you might be doing to benefit YOU and your CHILDREN.
Is it really in your childrens best interest and your best interest to do this?…..That is the question you need to ask yourself. And a question only you can answer.
7steps … that sucks. You NEED those meds = what kind of person takes what another needs to have some semblance of quality in their life?? My Doc told me not to carry mine around with me – they get routinely stolen and sold on the streets – he also said if I ‘played him’ in any way ie wanted more then he would stop prescribing. That is going to look bad for you if you go back for replacement even though someone else stole them.
I would suggest that is not a safe place for you to stay – if you get the meds replaced, the same thing will happen again. Have you confronted her about it?