UPDATED FOR 2024. Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following from a reader who we’ll refer to as “Tanya” about her experience of trying to expose the sociopath.
I was 35 when I met my sociopath — we’ll call him Dave. I was in a top twenty graduate business program — a magnet for narcissists and sociopaths, by the way! A culture that so prizes appearances, financial accumulation, and power must seem irresistible to people with those disorders.
Dave seemed so great at first — attentive, interesting, intelligent, open, honest, fun. My friends warned that he was too flirty — but I only took that as a sign that he was desirable and, hey, I won him over when others had failed.
We were off and on for a few months — the usual drama of dating a pure sociopath took its toll right away. He did very scary things early on, like drink and drive, show up at my door in the middle of the night, call a dozen times a night, etc. etc. In the alcoholic daze that is your typical business school culture, his behavior didn’t stand out as much as it might in real life — but it really should have at the time.
He’s engaged
Finally we broke it off completely. Then one night I got a call from him — he was in Brazil on holiday (he lived there for a few years before coming to Business School) and he was calling to tell me that he was engaged to a girl he’d met there. He put her on the phone so that she could be reassured that he was no longer involved with me. I thought it was crazy, but in my own attempts to CONTROL the crazy (always the first mistake), I took it upon myself to tell his friends at school about the call. I framed it like “Congratulate Dave! He tells me he’s engaged!” He was furious with me when he came back and his friends no doubt thought I was insane.
Later, his “fiance” called me a few times trying to find him. I “googled” her name on my computer — again in an attempt to control the crazy— and found that he had been emailing her from my computer during the time we were dating. Then I found emails he had sent to a sex tourism site called Club Hombre. Over the previous two or three years, he had posted HUNDREDS of emails to this site, explaining his sexual exploits with prostitutes all over the world. His “fiance” was a prostitute. On the boards, he talked a lot about having unprotected sex with prostitutes in Rio and Turkey (both high HIV areas).
I reported what happened
I was so petrified. I went to the school clinic and explained my situation. The nurse told me that I had a one in thirty two chance of having HIV and I had to wait a week for test results to come back (thankfully, negative). During that week I went to my school counselor (a 27 year old kid new on the job) and tried to explain my situation. I brought in print-outs of the postings Dave had made to the sex site, and a note from the clinic explaining the risks he had exposed me to. I wanted to somehow get this guy on record before he put other women in our school at risk, even if it meant humiliating myself. The counselor was skeptical. He asked me if I wanted to file a restraining order and I said “no.” I thought that would only make things worse.
As per procedure, he had to bring Dave in as well. When he asked Dave if HE wanted to file a restraining order, Dave said “yes!” So, as a reward for my efforts to work within the system, I got a restraining order filed against ME for harassing DAVE. One of the worst days of my life.
Can’t control the crazy
That was three years ago, and I still definitely bear the scars of the experience. I try to put the details out of my mind and, even as I read this, I can’t believe it happened.
I do my best to not fault myself for getting involved in the first place. As so many others on your site have said, I was behaving normally in an abnormal situation. What I DO fault myself for is trying to CONTROL the crazy. Every time I tried to control it and expose the sociopath, I only made things worse for myself. The true trauma wasn’t the stuff that happened between me and him, but the stuff that happened when I tried to expose him to others. It was so awful to see how easily sociopaths can bend the system to their will. Before then, I believed I lived in a just, fair world and that I could trust the system to protect me when I needed it. After Dave, I know now that I have to protect MYSELF.
When I’m philosophical about it, I just think that it’s only human to want to believe that we live in an ordered, just world. We want to believe it so much that we ignore the disorder and unfairness RIGHT IN FRONT OF US, and this blind spot is where the sociopath functions. I’m so thankful that I emerged with much less damage than some others. I only wish that there was a way to constructively deal with this — to raise awareness about sociopathy in the same way that people raise awareness about cancer or drug abuse.
Thank you again for your site — it was cathartic to share my story.
Learn more: How to report your abuser’s crimes so the police take you seriously
Lovefraud originally posted this story on Dec. 16, 2009.
How the messages we hear all our lives keep us vulnerable to sociopaths
Isabell,
I have no knowledge or advice to share with you; I wish I did.
I just want to say I hear how horrid and untenable this is and you are in my thoughts.
I wish you the very best,
one step
One_step_at_a_time,
Thank you. Your username is similar to my motto in life, during times like this… “One minute at a time.” ::grins::
I’m surprisingly OK. I’ve been dodging his bullets for so long, it’s become a regular part of life; or aka…”A new normal.”
Early on, I’d be frozen in fear… and, silent.
This weekend, I learned something from the mice I’ve been chasing in my garage… They, too, freeze when there is a threat. The truth is…if they came at me, I’d probably let them have the house, and move. So, rather then become frozen in fear…I am reaching out for resources, information, ideas and suggestions.
I had another realization, tonight. My ex is like a whiney complaining child. The kind of child that moans and groans, relentlessly tatteling of his perceived injustices inflicted upon him when he can’t get immediate gratification of taking what doesn’t belong to him… I see the court system as the tired parent, who’s been patient long enough, and extended many options and opportunities for the nerve racking child to get the message, and grow from the experience. Since it has become apparent that he’s never going to get the message and grow; the courts (the tired parent) reaches the end of their rope, and snaps at the quiet, compliant, cooperative child…”Just give him what he wants, damnit… I’m tired of hearing him whine. And, I’m too tired, and don’t have the time, and am too distracted to figure out a way to make him stop complaining – so I expect you to sacrifice and give up your rights, your boundaries, and whatever else belongs to you, if that’s what it takes to get him to shut up!”
I haven’t been complaining. I haven’t taken him to court. I haven’t made threats. I’ve cooperated to the letter of the law, even when it went against everything inside my being. I followed directions as they have been given. Yet…the complaining child continues to whine, because he actually got what he asked for…now, its too much of an inconvenience, and as such he has to blame the children as his excuse to reject them — but, of course, this is my fault too. It will be interesting to see what the tired parent (the court system) expects of me to do about his whining now?
Isabell – very interesting anology, a classic model for passing the buck.
it must be very hard to follow the letter of the buck passing law, especially where the welfare of your kids’ hearts are concerned.
I go through cycles where I freeze also. it is painful when i am in that place. i do think it is part of the fight or flight continuum, in as much as it is a response to threat.
You know, I really think a BIG truck could solve a WHOLE LOT of PROBLEMS!
all the best,
one step
Isabell,
You are in one of those rock and a hard place situations and I feel for you. I also understand, although I am in a completely different situation I am also between a rock and a hard place myself. It is a TERRIBLE feeling. And one hard to define.
I don’t know how much time you have. But I think the one person that you have in your corner is the therapist. The problem is that he doesn’t really “get it” (as much as he needs to) and this is going to have to be your mission. To teach him what he doesn’t know.
When people don’t “get it” it is hard to give them “personal examples” of what is happening in your “actual” world. When it is PERSONAL that seems to come out in the example your trying to “lay out” for them and I think it adds to their confusion of trying to figure out the complexity of it all. It comes out more like a he said , she said, kind of example and therapist see to much of that already. So give him more “factual” information that coralates with the PERSONAL situation you and your kids are in.
Gas lighting is SO VERY HARD to explain when it is happeneing to you. And the DRAMA is almost impossible to comprehend unless you have lived it.
I think I would actually do google searches on some of the very difficult to define behaviors and traits that the S/P/N exibits. And give your therapist as many of these that you can print out that would help him to SEE it in a different light.
When a man is using his own children as pawns, I am sure the therapist sees this, but can’t quite put his finger on the severity of it all. ALOT of people during a divorce use their kids as pawns and they are not S/P/N. So although he has seen this many times before, he hasn’t likely seen such complexity before in a case. It is one thing to use kids as pawns and quite another to be willing to throw them under the bus…..
There also should be an article or two here that might be an eye opener for the therapist. I guess we EXPECT that a therapist should KNOW more about this disorder than we do. This has NOT been my experience thus far. A therapist only knows what they have had experience with. And lets face it this disorder is something that you have to experience personally to really GET IT. We question it even when we LIVE it, because it is so unbelievable.
Another google search that kind of defines it well is psychological manipulation. That is what he is doing to your kids. But the thing about kids is they have that OPENESS to actually see things better than we do, however can’t necessarily put into words either.
An article here on LF that really puts into perspective the explanation of how complex understanding this disorder is might be Steves article: The sociopaths irrational optimism.
Maybe this would be a good on for your therapist to read?
I am sure that this therapist knows all of this stuff already. But maybe present it to him in a way so that he may better “get it” in your case.
Isabell, I KNOW it is hard to have faith in the system. I personally DON’T have faith in the system. It failed me & my son when I was seeking help within it.
HOWEVER please DO have faith in yourself! If anyone can do this YOU can….
You have a way of presenting yourself that is very level headed and with your childrens best intrest in mind. All you can do at this point is to try and “educate” the one person in all of this that might be of help to you in the court room. And that is a TALL job initself. But if anyone has the capacity to do this it is you.
No contact, no contact, no contact…that’s the loudest message you can sent. All others can be twisted and used against you.
Sociopaths love the righteous. They can predict their behaviors and turn love and kindness into ugly evil. Stay away and let others learn their lessons on their own.
It is not for you to decide who suffers and who doesn’t. Would you have listened to fair warning? Each of us has grown and learned from our experiences, in some necessary way. If others have something to learn, you can intervene all you want, their lesson will still come…
Duped
Again…this article and the posts hit home SO well!
When my ex and I broke up, he began writing poems (something he had done early in our relationship…you know, a real HOOK) to me and sending them via a mutual website. Well, after about two months of no contact (and me feeling like I was going insane might I add), he texted me. I answered it, and the FIRST two things he said were “(my son) misses you terribly” and “have you dated any one else?”
These were strange comments because, well, first off his son and I weren’t close AT ALL! It took me a minute to realize it was a lie which he was using to guilt me into going back to him…he even told me that his son CRIED when he told him we broke up.
Next, it was strange that he asked if I had dated anyone because, well, I hadnt, but the demeaning tone of his voice made me feel like I ACTUALLY HAD! His mother and I were ‘friends’ on facebook, and since he LIVES WITH HIS MOM AT 36, he had been snooping on her computer and reading my feeds (some of which had interactions with one specific guy). I can remember him asking repeatedly in this conversation “are you seeing anyone,have you dated anyone, are you dating anyone”…and he broke up with me!
My feelings…the sociopath you/we are/were dating make US feel crazy because THEY are crazy!
Dear Witsend,
Once again…Thank you!
I find it extremely aggravating that I occasionally have obsessive thoughts about exposing my ex-P as a psychopath. I am angry that she gets away with the big lie, especially with people who know/knew me. My new wife helps me to calm down and let it go, but it comes back and I get angry that she can get away with this ongoing façade and lies. She clearly has told an immense lie to my children, her boyfriend and supporters, her family, our former friends and colleagues about our past and ongoing situations which result in her male sycophants (former and current boyfriend) attacking me in emails about my alleged behavior (she provides them with selective emails attempting to portray me as hostile and angry and surely conceals the truth from them).
The friends, family and colleagues have not once contacted me to find out my side of our story nor do they wish to speak to me, which tells me she has told a whopper and truly convinced them I am a bad guy and have done the things she has alleged. I live with the comfort of knowing that those who know me best know the real story and how she has affected my family and career.
This email below comes from my ex-P’s boyfriend after my brother contacted one of my ex-P’s closest male supporters (former affair) who has great hostility towards me to ask why he continues to be involved in my children’s lives.
Hey tuff guy
I’ve tried to stay out of Angies dealings with Bob as much as possible. However at this point I feel compelled to address you directly. We both have associates in the financial Industry, ironically we even know mutual brokers. & mgrs who work with AMEX, funny huh? Anyway I digress, maybe you don’t have the whole picture on this situation, a brief history:
1 Angie & Bob got married
2 Angie had an affair (note from Bob ”“ multiple affairs ”“ funny thing, guy she had the most recent affair prior to meeting her current boyfriends is good friends with him ”“ do you suppose that relationship has been concealed?)
3 They got divorced
4 Bob & I got reacquainted about 4 yrs ago when I started seeing Angie, We actually confided in each other- because I TRUSTED HIM
5 Bob came to LA.,stayed with me for 3 days,looked at houses, played golf & drank wine – at this time he indicated he would like to move here & HE got Angie to agree to sell the Tx house in tandem (note from Bob ”“ divorce decree required that Angie sell the house or buy me out within 6 months at that point when I agreed to sell ”“ surely this information has been withheld as well). Everybody wins & life was good ! (note from Bob ”“ I planned a trip to CA to visit my parents. My ex-P got wind of the trip and talked me into staying with Dave and going out with her real estate agent to see homes ”“ I only agreed because the ex-P agreed to pay my airfare if I went along – manipulation)
6. Bob then proceeded to a short time later, after telling the kids we were all gonna live in Ca- where you live, wear Steve (Bob’s bro) lives- wear your dear parents live( I like your folks btw,your mom was nice to me) that he has decided to remain in Tx & they would not be moving. No real reason was given. (note from Bob ”“ after a month of thinking about moving I determined it was not in best interests of the children to move for ex-P’s love interest and for her to lead me around by the nose”“ no other reason was necessary)
7. Bob then proceeds to call an emergency hearing To mandate the kids stay put in Tx after she sells the house & we put a deposit on one out here. (note from Bob ”“ Angie filed emergency hearing, our house for sale had not yet received a single offer and there was no deposit put down on a house in CA ”“ a pack of lies ”“ do you get a discount on multiple lies??)
8. Ouch, burn. What a tangled web. He used me. He lied to me. He deceived everyone, except for a few people who knew what he was really up to. (Note from Bob ”“ alleged conspiracy to screw ex-P ”“ farthest thing from the truth ”“ this is the lie the ex-P has told people to turn against me)
9. Your bro then proceeds a War of attrition, after what was in the best interest for everyone he proceeds to Try to get my exwife to inform against me, which he soon found out there wasn’t anything to get. I’ll never forget her call describing him as an instigator who scared her. (note from Bob ”“ I contacted Dave’s ex prior to our custodial evaluation in summer 2007. She more than willingly spoke with me on multiple occasions and seamed rather scared of her ex which is why she lied to him about our conversations ”“ to protect herself)
10. Things have never been the same, as may quickly fwd this Email (note from Bob ”“ Dave had to short-sell his home and move in with ex-P and his business is suffering due to the economy ”“ he is trapped in his situation and blames me for creating it ”“ he sold his home after they knew I had no intentions of moving), Bob will start his bitter diatribes (over 3,000 at last count) all of you apparently have a lot of extra time on your hands with sending Emails of houses in escrow & bitter rhetoric about the woman I love. (note from Bob ”“ he surely has been provided only selective emails, most likely altered by the ex-P)
News flash: You all now have my undivided attention (note from Bob ”“ I perceive this a threat, not the first from him); Steve surprising them (Bob’s children) at SFO Airport wasnt very cool. Oh, I know he was just at the NEXT terminal & wanted to say HI, and now Bob has you intervening o his behalf over a conflict with Dan (former affair). Are you serious??
A “high level executive in the financial industry” getting in the middle of a word fight? Are we in 8th grade again? What would Sun Tzu think of that? (note from Bob ”“ my brother calmly and rationally ask Dan why he insists on being involved with children ”“ he sat back and let Dan have a tirade of 1 ½ have hours acussing me of this and that, cussing, calling me a pussy, calling my brother a pussy ”“ my brother just let him rant)
Look, I have taken the high road this whole time, I even invited Bob & Carla into our home this summer to look around & try to get some type of healing underway for this conflict that quite frankly I’m very comfortable saying he has caused. In fact you have all ganged up on her (note from Bob ”“ he invited us in the house when we were picking up my children only after my youngest son begged my wife to come see his bedroom at his mom’s home and Dave agreed”“ we were very uncomfortable with this)
repeatedly, made her a pariah, vilified her at every turn & where has it gotten you? (note from Bob ”“ My family has had no contact with the ex-P in five years ”“ so information he is receiving must be falsified)
More importantly it has affected the children greatly. You think Bob & Carla would invite me into their home? (note from Bob ”“ why would I invite someone with such great hostility and anger towards me into my home?) This all could have been so good for all of us. But it’s a war with your brother, one he has instigated & all of you have supported. It’s fruitless & a big waste of emotion. And all because of her infidelity-which as any mature adult is only a symptom of bigger issue that is not being resolved., but that’s a whole separate story neither you or I have any business in. (note from Bob ”“ ex-P has waged a campaign to her supporters that I am angry about her “affair”, which is why I do what is alleged of me) There is so little time on this earth to really enjoy whats important when it gets down to what matters most. Love, children, family, friends; I have watched this for to long & am sick of it. You getting involved is not a good idea, she divorced your brother not you. (note from Bob ”“ ex-P would not file for divorce, so I filed and divorced her ”“ another lie) SO please
don’t contact her or E-mail her anymore OK? In closing I have nothing against you or your family, we all need to enjoy our lives to the fullest, Omedetou on that Beverly Hills house, it looks amazing. I will & am keeping this correspondence mano a mano, I would ask you to do the same as a courtesy but you do whatever you see fit. I dont have any need to involve anyone else in this, tell Steve he is
welcome to see the kids anytime they are in Ca if he wishes to, just call first, I hope you can see my point.
Ki o tsukete,
Dave
I won’t have contact with this man, which is why my brother stepped in by calling Dan. By doing so, he truly exposed my ex-P ”“ but there is really little I can do with this, nor is there really a need. It would be nice to set the record straight with Dave, but that might crush his perception of my ex-P (the successful corporate executive with grandiose southern charm and superior intelligence), send him in a tailspin, and then he may come after me for ruining everything for him. Could be dangerous to me, my wife and kids.
Exposing the sociopath:
Yes, been there and done that. Was it effective? Yes and no.
His next victim, a “fiance” whom I had tried to warn (and of course in the honeymoon phase did not believe me) DID call me a year and a half later and said, “you were right, I should have listened to you”. There was some vindication in that.
But his few family members whom he has association with, believes that I (and all of his ex’s) are crazy, and that he attracts “crazies”. And they also believe that he is so good, kind, and generous that the “crazies” just want him for his money. Yes, the money that he embezzles, tax frauds, money launders, or acquires through deception.
Would I do it again (try to expose him)? I really don’t know. I had never had a time in my life (before his lies) where people didn’t believe me. I am a very open and candid person. He is more convincing at lying than I am at telling the truth. It was very hurtful to have people thinking ill of me, when I was innocent and speaking the truth.
Any time you are dealing with a sociopath, proceed with caution. The tables can turn on you at any moment, and they are vindictive and dangerous.
Best of luck to all of you, and happy holidays.
Peggy
In my case, exposing her would only serve me. She is charming, charitable, successful, parties with the boys, slays the corporate dragons. Why would any of her supporters want to know what she really is? Why would I burst that bubble for my needs? Maybe it is more so my children see what she truly is, she has turned my oldest against me. But I guess that can wait until he is older and can more maturely reflect on her actions over the years.