By February 21, 2008 56 Comments Read More →

On rumination

Not surprisingly given the painful experiences many readers have experienced living with psychopaths, letters to Lovefraud describe much troublesome rumination. This week and next I will be describing a two-pronged way of thinking about the problem of rumination – why it’s harmful to deal with these matters this way and next week (sorry to delay it) a very way that psychologists have found for processing such things.

You will appreciate that I am not in a position to give psychological advice in this forum. What follows is not a recommendation but rather a way to think about what’s involved when one ruminates. If it makes sense to you please discuss it with a mental health professional.

What rumination is and isn’t
Rumination is unproductively, endlessly going over something in one’s mind. When one is troubled by something rumination is an attempt to resolve that distress – but it is a failed attempt in that it doesn’t resolve anything. Rumination is circular and all it succeeds in doing is entrenching pointless and demoralising regurgitation. “I should have…”, “Next time…”, “If only…”, “Perhaps…”, etc.

Rumination is not the healthy experiencing of true emotions, nor is it working something out or through. If rumination is circular, feeling and thinking are linear in that they lead somewhere; it’s important to be able to recognise the difference. When therapists and psychologists advocate stopping rumination they are not suggesting that one stops feeling or thinking. It is on the round-and-round, repetitious activity of rumination that is being addressed.

Why rumination is unhelpful
Rumination can increase anxiety, depression, and sleeplessness; it can interfere with clear thinking, ordinary life, and regular pleasures. It is importrant that we’re careful about what we ruminate on because it uses up valuable megabytes and entrenches stuck thinking patterns.

The bad news is that in the brain ‘neurons that fire together wire together’. So obsessing about something produces and then strengthens a neural pathway where a thought leads to a feeling which leads to a memory which leads to another feeling which leads to another thought, etc. The more we activate that neural pathway the stronger it gets and the more likely stray thoughts will lead to the pathway and strengthen it further. Thus people say thay they can’t switch it off, or can’t stop thinking about something.

The good news is that in the brain the rule ‘use it or lose it’ also applies. The less a neural pathway is activated the weaker the connections get. That means that seemingly fixed lines of thought can be unfixed. And, what’s more, because of the ‘neurons that fire together wire together’ rule, new preferred pathways can be produced.

Neuropsychology tells us that it takes about three weeks to form and strengthen a new neural pathway. After that it becomes easier and easier to go down the new pathway rather than the old one. Thus the stronger the new pathway becomes and the weaker the old one. (To be clear – the problem is not necessarily conquered in three weeks, but by then significant neurological changes have begun.)

To summarise, constant thinking about, worrying on, a topic will entrench it and make it harder and harder to avoid, and vice versa. In this sense thoughts are things, as Napoleon Hill said.

Yes, but CAN it be done?
How does one stop ruminating? Here’s an old Bob Newhart clip which heartlessly shows what’s required.

Sometimes people distract themselves as they would distract a child: No, don’t look there, look here! They turn the music up, they cook a meal, they change seats…anything to interrupt the the endless chain of ruminative thought. I’d be very interested to hear from readers what strategies they’ve come up with.

Here’s an example of an ‘ever-present’ thought going away for a spell
A Doonesbury cartoon has this conversation between B.D., a Gulf War veteran, and his therapist:

B.D: The thing is I just can’t stop thinking about Iraq. It crowds out everything.
Th: Okay, B.D., I want you to do something for me…
First, think about the worst thing you experienced in Iraq. Fix it in your mind, Okay?
All right, now I want you to tell me the birthdates of everyone in your family as fast as you can. Go!
B.D: Uh…July 21, 1919, May 27, 1921, September 16, 1945, October 31, 1950, January 11, 1951, May 14, 1992!
Th: Very good.
B.D.: So what’s that prove?
Th: You said you couldn’t stop thinking about Iraq. Well, you just did.
D.B.: But that’s…that’s cheating.
Th: By making yourself think about something else? How you figure?
B.D.: Well, I’ll be damned.
Th: No, I’ll be damned. I’ve never seen you smile before.

The point here isn’t that B.D.’s rumination problem is over, but that he sees that it can be over – that he is able to think about something else after all. Now it’s up to him, the therapist is suggesting, to practice that.

Is all rumination bad? No
It might be that some rumination is part of one’s natural ways of coping. If, however, one is still obsessively thinking about something six months later, those mechanisms aren’t doing the job.

Can rumination actually be prevented? Sometimes…
I wrote a post once how I once narrowly avoided rumination:

At about age 10 I suddenly realised one day that eggs contain chick foetuses. (I say ‘realised’ because (a) in fact the eggs we eat have not been fertilised and so can’t produce chicks, but (b) it felt like a sudden insight.)

Horrified by the idea I began to think through the implications…. And then – here’s the relevant bit -caught myself in the act, as it were. In an early instance of metathinking I realised that if I continued this way that I would make it impossible for myself to eat eggs, to stand having eggs eaten around me…and so on. In short I saw that I was on the road to becoming what might nowadays be called a pro-lifer of the poultry world.

Vegans, please relax. Whether or not egg-eating is a bad thing is not the point here. The point is how to prevent oneself constructing a train of thought which in turn may construct us.

My realisation was enough and early enough to begin combatting the rumination. I stopped myself thinking about X (eating eggs is murder) and thought about Y (something else that caught my 10-year old mind).

No egg problems since.

Let me know your thoughts and experiences.

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56 Comments on "On rumination"

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Hello Everyone,
As I read the HELL everyone is in dealing with their own sociopath, I wanted to give you a perspective that got me back to NORMAL. It sort of follows what OxDrover is saying.

This is a quote from my lawyer when I asked “Is divorce always this tough.” as it reached the 1 year mark several months ago.

“No, all divorces aren’t as bad as this one. The entire firm talks about your case, I think this is one of the worst I have seen in 20+ years.”

Now I am not saying my sociopath (who is female) is worse or your story is not as bad as mine – either divorced/married/not-married/kids/no-kids. I have read several stories; though they may share some similarities they are all very different, each uniquely horrible, and all totally heartbreaking.

I get up each day and I smile. I smile not because I know my situation is so bad that it become’s funny, because it’s far from funny. I smile because I know my (our) situation is the worst.

-M 🙂


I actually AM in some ways “laughing” at my situation. I think what made me see it all as “funny” was when I went to a new psychotherapist ( I had had to move, literally flee my home and my previous therapist was too far away) and after a two hour “intake interview” where I told him my tale of woe about all the people out to kill me, etc. and he VERY TACTFULLY asked me if I would bring in someone with me the next time to VERIFY my story. I went back with a hand full of court documents and my son to verify my “outlandish” story.

I admit it, I guess I did sound like some paranoid delusional nut case with “the whole world out to get me”—and at the time that is how it felt, but it didn’t make it any less real.

I think really that EVERY one of our “tales” is OUTLANDISH and UNBELIEVABLE to the average Joe or Jill on the street who has not had the misfortune to be intimately involved with any P–in their family, their significant other, or at work. These people can wreck lives individually the way Hitler did collectively–the only difference I see between these Ps and Hitler is that he did it on a grander scale.

Many of the people who perished in the Holocaust did so because even though they were warned by family or friends to flee, they just could “not believe” that anyone would be so evil. How many of us have been “warned” either by others or by our own gut instincts, and yet we could “not believe” the truth.

How many of us still have trouble after the fact “really believing” the scope of the evil these people are capable of? None of us really understand what it is to BE a person without a conscience—we have a conscience, we can feel love, guilt, empathy, and other emotions where the Ps can’t. We can’t really ever “understand” them, because we might as well try to understand a gree lizard alien from another planet. We just don’t have a scope to truly know what goes on in their heads and hearts any more than we can know what a snail is thinking or a snake, we can only observe their behavior, but we can’t truly communicate with them. They are faux humans, and sometimes they are a “good imitation” but they are not the true item. They can’t be, they are missing a soul.

This is one of the things I have the hardest time understanding. And although I haven’t been targeted by my sociopathic stepmother for about 7 years now, I still can’t wrap my mind around the conscience thing. The fact that I was a child when I was targeted makes it even more difficult to remember what happened and to try to piece the puzzle together. Sometimes I just get a flashback of something she did to me and then realize that she did it maliciously. As a child I never thought of it that way unless it was incredibly obvious and I guess she made it obvious to me just to mess with my head sometimes. There were times, now that I think of it, that I got “accidentally” hurt, and now I’m sure she did it on purpose. It was child abuse that no one would question!

Sometimes I am floored by the implications of this. There is nothing in this world that these people will not do to get what they want. It is just a matter of logistics.

One thing that sets me off on round of rumination is the sociopath that I work with. I never talk to her, EVER. But I’m lucky because I don’t have to. Anyway, when she’s not looking I listen to the things she says to other people and pick out her angle of manipulation and what her purpose is, what she wants from the person. It is fascinating but really scary. I never try to warn anyone because the people that she targets aren’t good friends and they probably wouldn’t believe me anyway. And I don’t want her crazy ass to come after me! She is not very good at hiding her evilness, a lot of people can see through her act. It’s funny how some S’s are too dumb to be very successful. LOL

I guess I am trying to make sense of what happened to me. Maybe that’s why I’m fascinated with her, she’s a female sociopath. Their motives are similar and their lack of conscience is too, but their techniques are different. Playing the dumb flirt or the femme fatal works well for them.

So, yes I have a real problem with rumination especially this past couple of years since I found out about the term sociopath. I quite obsessively read this blog and search about this subject on the internet. I guess maybe I should stop but it is like an unquenchable thirst for knowledge about the subject. I guess one day it will subside but until then everyone here really helps me to keep sane :).

I total can relate to the obsessively reading about sociopathy. I guess once I learned that my X fit all the characteristics, and the way he would not accept any responsibilty, and lied when the truth could have saved his ass, it made me more interested in finding out as much as I could about the disorder in order to better prepare myself for what he might be capable of. Sometimes I even wonder- did he really mean to hurt me? I guess it doenst matter. The fact is he did. Whether he kept that secret from me (being HIV+) out of his own selfishness, and exposed me out of his own selfish desires, it was still reckless with my life, wether intentional or not. And the fact he wouldnt admit it- and basically laughed in my face- it makes it hard to get past the anger.

Rumination – i have found the book “Feelings buried alive, never die” and in it you process negative feelings with a script and change your negative thoughts and feelings to their positive. The basic point is we are all exposed to negative thoughts and feelings that over time from being in your mom’s womb to your childhood these thoughts and feelings get encoded in your dna and with the script in the book you reprocess or clear away the negatives that cover and now occupy your way of dealing with all situations.

I guess i have learned my lesson about rumination – it drains your energy like nothing else in this world, just like the “S” a parasite sucking your thoughts, feelings, dreams and all of your energy, which i have found with my “S” is exactly what he wants, that is exactly what he feeds on with the endless girls that he is with, he doesn’t leave anyone alone until he feels he has us thinking about him constantly, wanting him, needing him, until we are obsessing over what it is he has done to hurt us, and still find a way to profess love and want of him, so then he can walk away cuz he has 2 new girls wanting him already

with the script in the book you transfer all of that energy you are taking from yourself and giving to him and refocusing it back on you to heal yourself – this is not a fast process the more feelings and thoughts i do with the script the more come up, i’ve been processing my feelings for a couple of months now – a testament to the book – i find myself on this website without my rose colored glasses of a wonderful, happy family with my S at a very crucial time in my life for me – i was due yesterday with our 2nd baby and have started the no contact about 3 weeks ago and for the last 5 days been dodging the endless phone calls, text messages, emails, ringing on my doorbell (with all of the promises of how much he wants me and our family)- begging me not to do this to him, he has learned his lesson he is so sorry, – and me knowing if i just picked up the phone he would give me what ever i wanted for a temporary fix and that i wouldn’t have to be alone right now. he would lay it on so thick i don’t think he would ever let me go – like i was his prisoner, cuz i am affecting his ego really hard right now and if given the chance i have no idea what he would really have in store for me bcuz of this – it is extremely hard but every feeling and thought that i am having right now i am processing into a positive and somehow i am doing it, he works out of town and came in 5 days ago and i have managed to dodge him and he leaves again in 4 days for 1 month and then he is back for good, 4 more days to go, i am hoping i won’t have my baby before he has to leave again even though i’m past due, it will give me time to due legal paperwork including our new baby while he is gone, so when he comes back it will be set in place – for my sanity and my children’s safety

In her book The 5 Step Exit Amber Ault has a section on Thought Eviction, and gives 5 suggestions to stop this mental habit.

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