Not surprisingly given the painful experiences many readers have experienced living with psychopaths, letters to Lovefraud describe much troublesome rumination. This week and next I will be describing a two-pronged way of thinking about the problem of rumination – why it’s harmful to deal with these matters this way and next week (sorry to delay it) a very way that psychologists have found for processing such things.
Disclaimer
You will appreciate that I am not in a position to give psychological advice in this forum. What follows is not a recommendation but rather a way to think about what’s involved when one ruminates. If it makes sense to you please discuss it with a mental health professional.
What rumination is and isn’t
Rumination is unproductively, endlessly going over something in one’s mind. When one is troubled by something rumination is an attempt to resolve that distress – but it is a failed attempt in that it doesn’t resolve anything. Rumination is circular and all it succeeds in doing is entrenching pointless and demoralising regurgitation. “I should have…”, “Next time…”, “If only…”, “Perhaps…”, etc.
Rumination is not the healthy experiencing of true emotions, nor is it working something out or through. If rumination is circular, feeling and thinking are linear in that they lead somewhere; it’s important to be able to recognise the difference. When therapists and psychologists advocate stopping rumination they are not suggesting that one stops feeling or thinking. It is on the round-and-round, repetitious activity of rumination that is being addressed.
Why rumination is unhelpful
Rumination can increase anxiety, depression, and sleeplessness; it can interfere with clear thinking, ordinary life, and regular pleasures. It is importrant that we’re careful about what we ruminate on because it uses up valuable megabytes and entrenches stuck thinking patterns.
The bad news is that in the brain ‘neurons that fire together wire together’. So obsessing about something produces and then strengthens a neural pathway where a thought leads to a feeling which leads to a memory which leads to another feeling which leads to another thought, etc. The more we activate that neural pathway the stronger it gets and the more likely stray thoughts will lead to the pathway and strengthen it further. Thus people say thay they can’t switch it off, or can’t stop thinking about something.
The good news is that in the brain the rule ‘use it or lose it’ also applies. The less a neural pathway is activated the weaker the connections get. That means that seemingly fixed lines of thought can be unfixed. And, what’s more, because of the ‘neurons that fire together wire together’ rule, new preferred pathways can be produced.
Neuropsychology tells us that it takes about three weeks to form and strengthen a new neural pathway. After that it becomes easier and easier to go down the new pathway rather than the old one. Thus the stronger the new pathway becomes and the weaker the old one. (To be clear – the problem is not necessarily conquered in three weeks, but by then significant neurological changes have begun.)
To summarise, constant thinking about, worrying on, a topic will entrench it and make it harder and harder to avoid, and vice versa. In this sense thoughts are things, as Napoleon Hill said.
Yes, but CAN it be done?
How does one stop ruminating? Here’s an old Bob Newhart clip which heartlessly shows what’s required.
Sometimes people distract themselves as they would distract a child: No, don’t look there, look here! They turn the music up, they cook a meal, they change seats…anything to interrupt the the endless chain of ruminative thought. I’d be very interested to hear from readers what strategies they’ve come up with.
Here’s an example of an ‘ever-present’ thought going away for a spell
A Doonesbury cartoon has this conversation between B.D., a Gulf War veteran, and his therapist:
B.D: The thing is I just can’t stop thinking about Iraq. It crowds out everything.
Th: Okay, B.D., I want you to do something for me…
First, think about the worst thing you experienced in Iraq. Fix it in your mind, Okay?
All right, now I want you to tell me the birthdates of everyone in your family as fast as you can. Go!
B.D: Uh…July 21, 1919, May 27, 1921, September 16, 1945, October 31, 1950, January 11, 1951, May 14, 1992!
Th: Very good.
B.D.: So what’s that prove?
Th: You said you couldn’t stop thinking about Iraq. Well, you just did.
D.B.: But that’s…that’s cheating.
Th: By making yourself think about something else? How you figure?
B.D.: Well, I’ll be damned.
Th: No, I’ll be damned. I’ve never seen you smile before.
The point here isn’t that B.D.’s rumination problem is over, but that he sees that it can be over – that he is able to think about something else after all. Now it’s up to him, the therapist is suggesting, to practice that.
Is all rumination bad? No
It might be that some rumination is part of one’s natural ways of coping. If, however, one is still obsessively thinking about something six months later, those mechanisms aren’t doing the job.
Can rumination actually be prevented? Sometimes…
I wrote a post once how I once narrowly avoided rumination:
At about age 10 I suddenly realised one day that eggs contain chick foetuses. (I say ‘realised’ because (a) in fact the eggs we eat have not been fertilised and so can’t produce chicks, but (b) it felt like a sudden insight.)
Horrified by the idea I began to think through the implications…. And then – here’s the relevant bit -caught myself in the act, as it were. In an early instance of metathinking I realised that if I continued this way that I would make it impossible for myself to eat eggs, to stand having eggs eaten around me…and so on. In short I saw that I was on the road to becoming what might nowadays be called a pro-lifer of the poultry world.
Vegans, please relax. Whether or not egg-eating is a bad thing is not the point here. The point is how to prevent oneself constructing a train of thought which in turn may construct us.
My realisation was enough and early enough to begin combatting the rumination. I stopped myself thinking about X (eating eggs is murder) and thought about Y (something else that caught my 10-year old mind).
No egg problems since.
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Let me know your thoughts and experiences.
hi all , im a guy 36 yrs old and i live here in ireland , my story is a long one and involves soo much pain . for me i was married for two years to my wife at the time before i awoke to a nightmare beyond all proportions … we have a beautiful daughter together , who is my light and kept me alive throu the mos horrundous abuse and crultey one could only imagine … i will try to explain a little to you to give you an indication of what i and others of you are experiencing out their … i consider my self to be a deep thinker and find my own ways to research and find solutions to emotional suffering , which also importantly involve spiritual work on a deep core level to “cleanse” and protect ones space ..
mywife and i got married about 1.5 yrs after we met . in this time our beautifull daughter was also born to us both .. it was a very stressfull time and required a clear level headed approch to be their as a dad /father/ man … all the things a guy worries about fill your mind in supply warmth comfort and a place of safety … i guess bec my work load and internal pressure was so high , i didnt have time to think too deeply of what was going on …. everything was “has to be right” and “needs to be done ” .. as a genuine guy i put the head down and worked as hard as i could … doing regualar night feeds and housework ..on top of a long drive and commute ..
as the relationship continued our arguements continued and got worse … no amount of sensible thinking could make her see her unrealistic and distorted point of view …
her occupation was psychriatric nurse , which i put her stress levels down too …
slowly slowly i started to see a different side to her / and her family … and this made me question “who she really was” …
but bec i loved her from the bottom of my heart i tryed to ignore her hurtfull comments …
but alas like all things , they usually get worse before one awakens to the nightmare one is “trappen in ”
in this time of about two yrs .. i started to suffer terrible stomach aches and distortions of my own reality and how i felt about things … i didnt feel like myself anymore .. slowly i did nt go out with friends and eventually not even my hobbies i cared for anymore …
i was always spiritual and a seeker of answeres which was my own type of bed rock i relyed on in life …
i came from a difficult childhood myself but it thought me to reconise many things that were not right in our marriage …
after very vicious arguments i would dwell for hours on what was said and how/why etc etc … to the point of insanity …
one night again after a huge arguement over something trival … i decicded to sneek out and around our house to see if she felt the same way as i did … as i looked in the window .. their my wife lay ..reading a book and smokin a ciggeret…. she seemed like nothing had occured .. calm /happy and at ease with herself … i was shtttered and went into shock … but i still loved her … especially bec she was our daughters mother !!!!!!!!!
time went by and i started to get and suffer greatly from panic attacks … one day she came back home from work and put pills on the tablle for me to take …. mentally i was suffering and my “resolve” was starten to crack …. so i started to take them … did they help ?? no!!!
as i knew at some level of my being that they would nt , but i didnt care .. as my heart was suffering from what was happenin to me and what our little daughter was seeing … this was grinding me away slowly … she would blame me for creating such and that i had an anger problem ….
one day about two years ago , we decided to take a break in the south of ireland .. the night before she and i had another row .. i decided their and then i could not go on holidays … it was better to get some rest and time out on my own …
the next day they left on holidays without a word said in appolgy ,which was normal for her … no remorse ….
when i went to see them the next day she had left and told me on the phone'” to get the F## out of her home ” when i tryed to explain to her how “i” was feeling she swapped the phone over to my daughter and as i didnt know this was rambling on trying to get her to listen …
my little girl who was 2 said “daddy , daddy” ….
this went throu me like a missile and shattered my core …
i put the phone down , and at that moment” i died ” for i knew how cruel “she was ” and “a failure” i was . i decided to take my own life … the darkness engulfed my soul , i could not see a reason to live … being so isolated over time , i couldnt see any resourses to call upon to help me and somewhere safe to feel understood … i did want to admit the truth … “that i was in a very disfuntional marriage and married to some one who was very sick indeed and publicly our marriage was over ”
that night i wrote a quick goodbye note and gathered 60 pills together and proceeded to take my own life ,as each pill i swallowed ,i cryed and cryed … such bleakness and pain ….it was done !!!!
6 hrs later i was found and rushed to hospidal and their transferred to intensive care … i had multi organ failure … my kidneys and liver where in total collapse .. the pain was hurrendous …
shock waves went out among my family and friends …. but i was to survive .. 8 weeks later i got disharged from hospidal … only to be put into the psychritric services … for observation ..
when i did get home straight away the bullyin and putdowns started … the first night i spent in a locked room , tryin to feel safe … i called my brother late in the night and he told me to “make an exit from the house slowly over the next few weeks …”!!
three weeks later she did it first and demanded i leave the house …with no where to go and no food or warmth and my body achein from all the trauma , i found repfuge in my little car … keepin my hospidal appointments and hanging on until i would see my little girl again …
my brother was the only one to believe my story and slowly throu immense suffering and pain , i slowly started to rebuild and get to see my daughter again . i found the system here in ireland to be crroupt to the highest levels and so called proffesionals acting with impuninty to my care and needs …
today 18months on igrow stronger and wiser in dealing with the wife who i consider to be very dangerous , and see my girl regularly … she is good and i work throu playin and been a great dad to be their for her as she grows ….
MY RECOVERY ; KEY POINTS
1/ find one person who is wise and believes your story …
2/ drop all others , keep all info to yourself as they will infiltrate your support systems ruthlessly
3/ close all loopholes and a/c .. change e-mails bank a/c and such
4/ get protection from a support network
5/ set up journal and note book to keep your emotional focus … i.e. an emergency card,
bec your thinking will be shattered
6/read ,study/rest/ time off work / tell your boss /call in every faviour you can find
7/ work out routine to deal with severe anxiety and trauma … prescription drugs are not to be relyed on !!! they cloud the mind …big time
8/nature and time alone in nature … animals/pets … caring sharing love …
9/believe /displine and courage will have to be your bedrock
10/ cut out all negative talks within the mind if you can
SPIRITUALLY:
1/warm sea salt showers and baths ….
2/ art /drawing and painting ,flowers.. surround yourself with things of beauty ..
3/ dont expect anyone else to understand … even councellors
4/ do cerimony to release her from your life …
5 / study up on “psyic protection ” …. master it !!!!
6/ see yourself free and reguarly visualise …
i hope this helps … i will post again soon for you all … thank you once again for a great website ….
The problem with RUMINATION in trauma situations (for those recovering from involvement with a psychopath) is that you can’t just tell someone to “stop thinking about it.” PTSD causes a lot of circular thinking and UNTIL the victim recieves:
1. VALIDATION and
2. Some modicum of explanation (though not from the psychopath – they never provide closure or reasons)
They can’t stop… and even then stopping is slow. You don’t just GET OVER a psychopath – you adapt and move forward. This rumination isn’t a choice but a symptom.
Also, we advise for those who feel safe enough to do so to EXPOSE them because telling your story and externalizing the “poisonous” words & thoughts psychopaths implant in your mind to control you helps put things in perspective and start to heal.
TAruswinds,
Thank you for sharing what I am sure is a very painful story. You sound like you are on the road to recovery from this painful episode in your life…and the fact that you can be there for your daughter is I am sure comforting to you and to her as well, as she has to deal with this woman for some time yet.
Fighter,
Your post is ver concise and succint, we DO need validation and that is the most difficult to get sometimes…and so is the “explanation”–my son is recovering right now from his 8 year marriage to a psychopath (possibly “just” a Border line) woman who tried to kill him…she is out of jail now, on probation with a strict NO CONTACT injunction, and he so wants and explanation, but has come to realize that he will never get “the TRUTH” out of her.
She is back to her old ways, still trying to “rip off” the family financially along with her P-BF who is in Prison at this point–but she has even seenhow she can get arond the legal “no contact” with him. He gave her a power of attorney for managing his finances so they can LEGALLY converse even though there is a NO CONTACT order from the Judge.
They learn “fast” how to get around the system, and she is being very careful to walk on that line between what is “legal” and what is “moral.” She stays ON the “legal” line but is again flat footed on the immoral side.
I absolutely understand the need to ruminate, to re-chew the details, and don’t think it is bad unless it passes to the point of obscession with the details.
I still think about the “situations” of all of my Ps, but not so much the “detals” any more, or the emotional ups and downs, but more about MYSELF, my own feelings, my own thoughts, my own healing, and what I need to do within myself, on the journey toward healing.
tauruswinds,
What a nightmare, what a story. All our stories are really unbelievable. My best friend who has listened to me endlessly going over every minute detail again and again, as I discover more bits and pieces of information and tie them together, she and her husband knew my husband, thought he was the most devoted husband and father on the planet, and time and again she says those words: “It’s really unbelievable!”
It really is unbelievable. It makes no sense. Such astonishing duplicity and cruelty coming from one we’ve given all to. It’s one tidal wave of pain after another.
Ten months ago I was almost as low as you were when you took those pills. I wanted to get in my car, drive somewhere and just die. I thought about going to Yosemite, renting a tent cabin in Camp Curry, bring along a few jugs of water, lay there and die.
I’d pretty much already stopped eating. A cracker and half a banana a day was all. Even having to eat that much was annoying. So quitting food altogether wouldn’t have been difficult.
I just could not see how I could go on living, knowing this man I adored had betrayed me (and I didn’t know the half of it back then).
The world was gray. Everything had lost its color. I could barely hear any sounds. I remember one time a ding-dong friend of my older daughter told me that in spite of everything my husband had done, there was still a lot of beauty in the world.
It totally pissed me off when she said that. It made me angry to think anyone could even think of beauty when I was in such pain!
A few weeks later as I sat overlooking the Pacific Ocean, I took in the birds and the sand and the sunlight glinting off the water and I thought to myself: There IS a lot of beauty in the world. No matter what he did, he can’t take this beauty away.
I realized that even if I never find someone else, I can appreciate the gift of that beauty, which is something he’ll never be able to do.
At first, it’s hard to see the beauty for pain. Thankfully, the pain starts to ease up after time. After a while, maybe a long while, it’s not there every minute anymore. I still remember the first time I laughed. It was back in July, 3 and a half months after I’d started my descent into hell.
My daughter and her boyfriend and I were watching the movie Little Miss Sunshine. For a blessed hour and a half I didn’t even think of my husband. I laughed out loud. That almost startled me.
Since then, I don’t laugh very often, but sometimes I do to the point of tears. And always with family and friends who I was the lucky one to end up with. He threw them all away. What a fool.
I am so glad I didn’t give into that impulse to drive off and die. And I am glad that you failed in your attempt to die too. I’m sure that there are people out there reading these posts, people who have never posted themselves, people who are in absolute agony. Your post offers so much hope. It’s hard to see hope in the beginning, but, truly, these evil people who have stolen so much of our lives are not worth dying for.
There is still so much beauty in the world.
P.S. At my lowest point, I even did a google search on painless suicide. All that came up were these Christian websites that sucked you into thinking they had good suggestions when all they wanted was to give you hope. Pissed me off. I didn’t want hope. I wanted to die.
A couple of weeks later one of my daughters was being rude to me. I begged her for compassion. I told her she would never treat me in such a way if she knew how I was feeling. (Of course she was dealing with her own anger and pain too, and I was the one she could take it out on.) “See that ground there?” I asked, pointing to the driveway I was standing on. “I have been feeling lower than that.”
TO YOU ALL…
thank you for sharing your stoires and pain … “it is so very important to express the truth ” … please believe me when i say that … these are some of the last taboos in society to explore and break the walls of silence upon ..
last christmas , i talked with Roy Sheppard by accident, after i found his book .. “the dark side of venus ” which had just been advertised following publication .. it felt like my world and the wheel of life was starting to turn and my personal story was real experienced by many others … hes book is for guys but equally also for women in such a position … no parent /person or child should ever have to experience that unbelieveable pain and cruelty … from such people … sites like these are essential to give people a place to freely express … long live the freedom of speech … for it is our soul longing and key to our whole being …….!!
for many years my self i have had a deep way at looking at things and lifes problems and why we, and others suffer . … i believe no one model should be used to classify certain disorders .. “But” it is a very good place to start the search for truth !!!!… and a very important step ..
my philospy is that their is “many levels” to these personality diorders , usally laid down or exhasberated by childhood tramas in these peoples lives , … but also in particular theirs more going on in the background that the nacked eye eye cannot see , so their for “our”senses become key !! …it all depends on how far you want ,or ,are able to travel down into the darkness … to where these people minds reside … the darkness of the human soul ..
for me i went the whole way !!! “to death and back !” and for a good reason i feel .. to unlock the patterns and behaviour and the “darkness” that drive these people minds .
so here goes …. you dont have to agree what i am about to say but see and sense for your self your own unique truth … for this is key …
from a spiritual point of view a persons “mind” and “soul” are the two parts that make us human … ownership of both is critical for them to have the “control” and “power” they so badly crave !!!!!
PLEASE THINK CAREFULLY OF THOSE FOUR KEY POINTS AS THEY ARE VITAL !!!
Spirtual we must start to protect our selves .. from the “psyic driving” and negative thoughts that are pushed into our minds and souls ..via the charkra “(base , second and third charkra)…
for me the mind is not all present within the brain but also fed from the energy points of the chrakra system..
if people google “psyic protection ” they will see similar stories and patterns from people who have experience also what we have here …..
for me i was able to see and discover patterns within my wifes family and esp with the her mother in this case …
i find also that one generation conditions another in this behaviour … please bear this in mind … usually an emotional shattering occurred for them at some stage in life .. esp during childhood … thus the behaviour is “played” out
the phyisical and bodly experiences are very important also as they are “keys”.. to understanding the patterns of “energy” at work .. in the house where i lived .. i got little sleep … bec of phyisical pain in my solar plex area ,stomach, and intestine area .. headaches , anxiety attacks .. bowel problems .. distorted dark thoughts that are not normal ..
flashbacks form child hood … distortion of my own sexual feelings etc etc .. when the heat is really turned up .. thoughts of insanity!!!
so the bombarment is on all levels of experience that we day to day in our reality ….
bec of this …tiredness… becomes our greatest enemy .. as our natural impluse is to fight and such we expend more energy .. phyiscally and psyically with our tormentors .. which leads to further fatigue …and exhaustion .. the goal is “emotional shattering ”
another thing to bear in mind is also our place of residence … where we sleep and rest …. become very aware of patterns .. study them if you can and note them .. how you feel , in your body and patterns of phyiscal pain / time it occurs.. go to another room and see if abates etc
the primary objective is to build the resourses to exit out of the situation safely ….and to do this we need all our courage and strength
but be prepared as it does intensify when you do leave .. either by been on a phyisical level , but more particually on a non phyicisal level .. throu ‘tortorious thoughts “… and self doubt
you must start very slowly to rebuild solid loving structures and protect yourself on all levels … the power of the mind is immense .. trust me !!
visualisation techniques are essential in clearing your mind and phyisical space .. it may sound not workable but like all things … the mind is a muscele and like all musceles it needs to be exercised and strenghtened so it can be up to the task in freeing itself from the thoughts that interlink us with these very dark and nasty people …
often also it involves a total change in our behaviour and view of life … its like a massive emotional cleanse that one goes throu .. time and disipline are required , their is no other easy answers ….
i found keeping a journal became an essiential tool .. why ? bec it recorded my memoires and such prevented further distortions of the truth of experiences i had experienced by this persons behaviour … in events that were going on
for them it is critical that they “inject in ” doubt in their victims mind . also too i found it gave revelance to my feelings .. a place for us to take these very painfull thoughts out of our heads … and rest awhile
now dont get me wrong , it is just one tool to assist in moving forward …
i hope this helps all of you .. i will post more info …
thank you ….gillian 🙂
oxdrover 🙂
even thou we are all out their.. we are all connected by thought …xxx
Taruswinds,
I believe very much that healing must encompass not only mental and emotional, but spiritual aspects as well. Regardless of what your spiritual path is, whether you believe in God, or are an Athiest, agnostic, etc. it doesn’t matter…whatever your spiritual aspect is, it must be included in the healing process.
If we allow our painful experiences to devestate us totally, and do not grow and learn from them, find some MEANING in them, some good that has come out of the process, then we have lost, not gained.
If we allow this experience, as terrible as it is, to make us bitter and ugly inside, as bitter and ugly as THEY are, to kill our souls, all the good that is in us, then they have “won.”
You are right, there is no easy answer. It takes time and work. When we come up against something that we cannot change, it requires that we change ourselves. We cannot change them, the unchangable, we cannot “help” them, we can only change ourselves and help ourselves to cope with, grow and heal.
Good morning OxDrover. As a spiritual person I too found the advice given by Tauruswinds very very valuable. Yesterday, though, it was the anniversary of the day I met exN, I had a recall on breast check to be told I have breast cancer. I dont know at this stage what the future holds for me and I may be off this site for a while. On a holistic level, I felt relatively well before him, after him my health went poor and my state of mind punctured. Im sure he helped me press my ‘self destruct button’.
Dear Beverly,
I am sorry to hear that you have breast cancer. There is a blog on here about the effects of stress on the body/mind and believe me, it is TRUE! Stress and grief has a big effect on our health physically. I ended up coming down with rocky mountain spotted fever this summer (a tick borne fever) and it threw me for a big loop, I am only now, months later starting to get my physical strength back. I got to the point that I could not even climb one flight of stairs without huffing and puffing. I had just about every test known to medical science to find out why I was so very weak. The fever itself can do that, but the stress as well + the fever= poor health.
Sooooo the point I am trying to make is that now is the time it is VERY important that you TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF FIRST. Put everything off that is not critical, take care of YOU physically and emotionally and spiritually. YOU come first.
Eat a healthy diet, exercise (both of which will raise your good brain chemicals) meditation (you may need a teacher for this for a time or two, but it’s really very easy) and be aware of your fears and emotions but don’t let them “drive” you. If you are depressed, see a provider about some medication for that—in short—do ALL the things that are important for your healing. (((((hug))))) to you and my prayers for your speedy return to full health—you are a strong woman, and heck, if you can beat the P, you can beat this one too!
OxDrover. Thank you for your kindness. I only suffered just over a year with the N but 2 years in all. During that time I was menopausal, I couldnt sleep, I lost 1.5 stone in weight, smoked too much, had no appetite, bad back etc. Then on top of all that, 2 deaths in the family and a friend died, all happened together, problems at work, plus other niggly things as well. Yes I will look after myself finally, I have to now. Thanx for the hug. I will still keep reading and blogging whilst I am able.