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Pathological Liars are Sociopaths, Sociopaths are Pathological Liars

Lies and Cheats

I think to myself in retrospect of all the occurrences where the SP was telling a COMPLETE lie.  Of course, at the time, I knew something wasn’t right, but I wanted him to make it right.  I wanted him to prove to me what he was really saying was true, which he never did.  For a very long time I did not want to believe he was cheating…that much.  I couldn’t fathom it.  But he was.

Surprise Visit

I went to teach dance every Thursday evening and he came home from our office early so I could beat the traffic.  9 times out of 10 he was late, so I eventually had to tell him the schedule at work had changed to earlier, so when he was late, I would still be on time.

One day I decided to randomly stop by our office to check on my office manager, since now he came home earlier than I really needed him to because he was always late.  I figured I had a couple minutes to kill, so I would go and check up on things.

The LuLu Lemon Cleaning Lady

I pulled in the parking lot to see a woman get out of her car and go to the trunk.  She pulled out a vacuum.  She was dressed in her LuLu Lemon attire, with her fake boobs popping out of her tiny shirt, with about a mile of cleavage.  Her long hair was tied up elegantly in a high pony tail and she was strutting a full set of make up.  She was a good looking woman.  I thought to myself, “I won’t doubt that that is our new office cleaning lady.”  I meaning knowing the SP, why in the WORLD would he bring a woman anything less than someone he was hooking up with?  It’s just gotta be my luck.

Heat ran through my body at that moment because I really knew what this meant.  I got all clammy and started to have what I now look back and label as a small anxiety attack.  I walked into my office and greeted my office manager, and we sat down to chat.  Sure as sh** seconds later GUESS who walks into the office?!  Of course it was her.  My office manager had no clue who she was.

Deer in Headlights

I took the liberty to speak with her and introduce myself as the wife and part owner, and asked her if she needed something.  She looked kind of nervous and timid.  She said that she was there to clean the office.

I looked at my office manager and he knew nothing about it.  It was getting late in the afternoon, and my office manager was going to be locking up the building soon, and I was leaving to go to teach.  I asked her how long it would take her to clean and she said she didn’t know.

I’m thinking, if you are a “normal office cleaning person”, you would be able to look at the space and get an idea for how long it would take.  I suggested that she look around and give us an idea since we were going to be locking up soon.

She walked to the back of the building while I whispered to my OM if he knew what this was all about.  He said he didn’t know she was coming and didn’t know who she was.  I decided to walk back there and ask her to come up to the front so we could get her information to pay her.

When she came into my OM’s office, I asked her to fill out a W-9 so we could pay her when she was done.  She looked at me like a deer in head lights.  She was confused.  Then I asked her how much she charged an hour.  She had no idea.

Just Friends…Again?  I Mean Come On!

I’m like, “wait, you don’ t know how much you charge?”  She stumbled over her words.  Then she told me that SP had contacted her to come and clean, and that they hadn’t talked about any of this.  I asked her how she knew SP and she mumbled her words by responding to me that they were friends.  Uhuh, I’ll bet you are.

At this point I was getting more aggravated because I knew where this was leading; I could feel it.  So I directed my office manager to phone SP, on speaker, so that we could get this little hiccup figured out, and sweet little cleaning girl could get paid.  My OM got SP on the phone to ask him these questions.

SP immediately was enraged that my OM was calling him.  SP now knew that I was there.  SP didn’t know how much he was paying her.

Not Thought Through, What a Surprise

This was definitely not thought through very well, probably because it wasn’t what they were making it out to be.  The SP and my OM argued and then the call ended.  I looked at her and I said, “well since you don’t know how long it’s going to take you, you don’t have all the cleaning supplies that you need, you don’t know how much you charge, you can’t get the person that asked you to come in to give you the amount you are to be paid; maybe you should come back tomorrow in the morning.”  She left.

A Hot Bod What?

I knew from the moment she saw me, she was stunned.  I know that SP told her to come in not thinking in a million years that I would happen to show up when she showed up.  I mean what cleaning lady have you ever seen that is in their late twenties come into your office in LuLu Lemon with a hot bod and cleavage, with beautiful make up and just rocking it?  I think said no one ever!  My OM was taken aback.

We talked for a minute, mostly how we were so surprised at what she was wearing, that she was going to pull off that she was a cleaning lady.

There’s Always More

I wasn’t done yet.  There was something else.  I felt that there was something else.  I went to go into his office and open up one of his filing cabinets.

Now WHAT do we have here?  It’s a copy of “A Purpose Driven Life.”  Well now what’s this about?  SURELY SP would not buy something of this depth for himself!  I opened it and to my wonderment, guess who had written a monologue on the inside page?  It was surely the cleaning lady!  She had purchased the book for his birthday a month prior.  Good graciousness.

I about flipped the $%:#$%*$ out.  I was on a mission.  Back home I drove, luckily still in time to address this and get to work.  I walked back into the house to find him sitting on the couch reclining.

And Here Come the Lies

What is this?

I don’t know.

You don’t know?

Well there is an entire letter to you on the inside page of this.

I haven’t read it yet.

This was in your drawer in your office.  Who is Lucy?

Ugh she’s just a friend.

A friend that buys you gifts for your birthday that I don’t know?

I wasn’t even there when she dropped it off at the office.  I saw it on my desk and then I just put it in the drawer.

Why is another woman buying you gifts for your birthday…AND writing you a long, personal monologue in the inside cover?  And now she’s the cleaning lady?

She bought me the book for a business thing.  She buys those for all the people she does business with.

Wait, so you’re telling me Lucy has an office cleaning business, and that every client she has, she buys this book and gives it to the owner and writes a letter in the book?

What is your problem?

What is my problem?  hahah.  Oh my gosh really?  How do you not see how this makes no sense?

Why did you ask her all of those questions?  You were being rude to her.  I was trying to get the office all nice and cleaned and now you sent her away.

I will clean the damn office myself before I will have that coming in there.  I want to know how you know her.

I was trying to get in touch with her brother that is in jail, so I called her to get his number.

Really.

Then she mentioned she had a cleaning business and I had a dirty office.

So wait, if that’s all that transpired, why did she buy you a gift and balloons and a birthday card?

(I started ripping all the pages out of the book)  Conversation over, I wasn’t getting nothing out of that.

Why Do We Buy Their BS?

I went to work.  Later I found her on Facebook.  She ain’t no cleaning lady THAT’S for sure.  She was some kind of Mexican Singer.

I think we tend to believe pathological liars because they are so good at it.  We think how hard it would be for us to lie.  We might have to think for a moment, what if I lie right now and then I can’t remember the lie and then I get caught?  Not them, they just splurt out what they are thinking at the moment.  Screw consequences of getting caught, because then, they will just lie again.

Maybe they will throw a little gas lighting in there and make you think that you misunderstood what they originally said, or that you heard something that they didn’t say in the first place.  OR it could be that you are just jealous and are making things up in your head.

No, none of those things.  You are just being lied to by a pathological liar. We believe them because they believe their own lies so much, how could we not as well?  This is the cycle of psychological and mental abuse that goes along with being in a relationship with a sociopath, which is turn means being in a relationship with a pathological liar, they go hand in hand.

Just Assume Everything is a Lie

Now instead of giving him the benefit of the doubt, I assume everything is a lie.  It’s so liberating.  Every time he tries to say anything, when I do have to be in contact with him, I just tell him he’s a liar.  And at this point, I don’t really care if any of it IS true, because it probably isn’t.

 

 


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30 Comments on "Pathological Liars are Sociopaths, Sociopaths are Pathological Liars"

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PeaceinChaos – what an outrage! They are so audacious.

Donna: You are so on key with this. My ex was a pathological liar and SO good that he even fooled the psychologist we were seeing. He could lie straight to your face and you would never know. He was so cunning and manipulative that it was scary.

He said to me one night when we were watching a show on Anna Nicole Smith and the Billionaire she married and he said that is the best thing a rich widow (not widower). He continued they miss their mate as opposed to a divorcee (like me). He said women use guys for their money so why not a man doing the same? He said he could be anything she needed to be and if she was ugly that ugly women need love to.

Within 4 months of us breaking up he found the rich widow (and not good looking). Married her within two years and living in the million dollar home.

People ask me why does it still bother me? My answer – how can a liar, cheater, porno chasing bastard wind up living the life of Reilly? Will his day ever come – perhaps – was he on the Ashley Madison site – good possibility…..

Donna can you answer when will I finally get this person out of my head?

Czarinamom – credit where credit is due – the original post was written by Peace in Chaos.

About your question – to get the person out of your head, you need to make the decision to recover. That means dealing with all the emotional pain and disappointment caused by the sociopath – and also any pain and disappointment you experienced before the sociopath that made you vulnerable to him. It is a process and it can be slow, but you can definitely recover. There are many articles on Lovefraud that may help you.

As I heal and am out from under his daily manipulation, it is amazing to me how much he lied. How effortless it was to him.

You are so right about them not thinking or worrying about the consequences.

The first lie I caught him in was silly really. He told a humerous story about playing high school football. I remember laughing over lunch. Later, when I mentioned his high school football career, he told me he never played. Huh? Nope, he never said he played high school football. I honestly thought I was losing my mind!

From there, many lies about how he had conversations about me to various people. How he was always telling family and friends how wonderful I am. Telling his children this and that. None of it was true. Later, I learned none of them knew I existed.

He completely made up a story about a female personal trainer at our gym was making sexually suggestive comments that made him feel uncomfortable. HA! He reported the incident to her supervisor and almost had her fired. That the personal trainer kept calling and texting him because she didn’t know who reported her. You can see the nice triangulation at play with that one. Again ….it never happened!

When I found out he had a double life, a live in girlfriend/wife and outlined the evidence I had, physical evidence mind you, he still lied. HE WAS THE VICTIM! I was wrong. She was stalking him.

I could go on but it would be a book.

The biggest thing that struck me about my ex was that she acted like by my very questioning the things she said I was insulting her. Even if she was very clearly lying, somehow I still had no right to question her. I was disrespecting her in my questioning. It was the most frustrating thing.

I can SO relate to the ridiculousness of the lying.
His anger, how dare I not believe him. How disloyal I was to not trust what he said. Then later, why did I believe him? How stupid I was to believe him.

Because of course, it wasn’t his fault. He lied because he had to, because I asked him questions and demanded answers, so I “made him lie” so it wasn’t his fault.

Then later, with the women. One, I call Sarah, thought they were having a relationship and the whole time he was telling people she was stalking him, making things up about them, wouldn’t leave him alone. Yet I knew he was taking her to intimate spots, I know because they were MY personal places that I shared with him when we started dating.

And of course, he dumped her (she didn’t know she was being dumped) by saying he was going to be very busy for a couple of months, so out of consideration for her, they would take a short break. OHHHH, she was so impressed that he was SO busy and in such demand in our community so she waited…returning his consideration of her with waiting for him. SUCH a considerate man, right? The only thing he was busy with was the NEXT woman, who avoided “Sarah the Stalker”.

I never did find out what my husband told the next girlfriend about the out of town woman who expected to see him anytime she was in town. They went to the same school, graduated different years, but each knew people… and when it came time for class reunion, my husband who USED to go to all of them… all of a sudden convinced one woman to take a trip out of town that class reunion weekend, so he could keep the two women separate. I wonder if that worked.

And while he juggled girlfriends, he was telling me how I was the best thing that ever happened to him and that he didn’t want a divorce, that he was just busy with work, and tried to get me to make plans for a reunion with him… which I avoided like the plague.

Anyways, not my problem anymore. It did help me, when I saw all the lies he told the other women, it helped me to realize it wasn’t because of what he said of me… it was just the way he operated. A Scumbucket.

As Donna wrote once, he was a Lie (Liar) from Hello to Goodbye (paraphrased).

This is a great example of the mind control sociopaths exert. From an outside perspective, the lies just seem outrageous, but somehow they get us to believe them. It’s because A) we can’t imagine someone could go through so much trouble to lie; and B) they already have us hooked and can exert control over how we think.

This is why we need to know that people like this actually exist, and we need to protect ourselves before we get hooked.

The big bussomed cleaning lady? Unbelievable. Only a sociopath…..

What can you do when you work with the SP?

I dated him for a while and he was dating other people at work! People at work seem to think something is up with him but they tolerate/respect him. And I’ve been in a few situations where I have avoided an event or even a meeting, since he always manages to bring up something about his new situation. His wife probably has no clue what he is capable of. I had to speak to him and at the end of the work call he said I love you. I hung up.

It’s made 100% moving on difficult. I am keeping no contact. I am pretty private and don’t really want to go to HR. I tell friends but I don’t think they get it–SPs are different from a normal breakup/relationship. If he respected me he would leave me alone and be happy in his new life; just another reminder that he does/is not.

YUP! Lie, truth?, lie, truth?, lie, truth? – All in the same paragraph. After I discovered he BIG lie (another husband in her home country who she told me was her “brother”) how could I believe a word? It was devastating, can’t confront them as the anger they portray is crazy. They don’t want to believe they did anything wrong.

I believe the numbers of these borderline personality disordered people is growing. We are such a disconnected society now with mobile devices, phones etc, it is so very easy to conceal communications.

So now how do “we” as a deceived group of people (those who post and read here) learn to trust anyone after having our hearts ripped out and stomped all over?

It is amazing how many pathological liars/sociopaths are out there! Yet it is strangely comforting knowing I wasn’t the only one duped by one! Thank you Love Fraud!

I married my recently EX SP in 2006. he started unraveling about a year into our marriage. After TWO clueless female therapists who he wrapped around his finger and provided no relief, he began an affair with a “bowling team mate” in 2011. I had hard proof of his relationship. No matter how much I confronted him, he would deny, deny, deny. I filed for divorce in April 2011; three weeks before our divorce “trial” (and a lot of $ gone!)he pleaded, begged me not to divorce him. Cornered, he slightly admitted his relationship. It was only when he voluntarily gave me his cell phone and access to his email did I gather ALL the information he left out. But what was truly eye opening was how GOOD a liar he was! How dramatic! If I didn’t have hard proof, I would believe his denials! Wow!

Of course, being one who believes in the good off all human beings, I gave him a second chance with several stipulations! 2012, was good. By mid 2013 he started to unravel again and not only reneged on all of his “agreements” but began drinking (by the time we divorced he was drinking 5-6 CASES of beer a week). So, thinking about how Katie Holmes handled her divorce, I quietly plotted and made sure my divorce would go as I planned. No lawyers, they don’t GET IT! Did it pro se after getting the EX to agree to a POST Nuptial agreement in 2014! I knew his weaknesses. I watched, I listened and made sure I knew EVERYTHING that was going on around me. On May 6, 2015 I got my divorce. On July 15 sold “our” home and made a move out of town. He still contacts me via text. I give him NO personal information. He’s letting up a bit, probably on to his next victim.

Congratulations Debra. My divorce was final in July last year. I changed all emails and phone mumbers so he cannot “push my buttons ” anymore.
The lies in the above story remind me of all the outrageous lies I was once told.
Living close to the gulf here , he returned from a nightly fishing trip. His shirt smelled extremely like a woman s perfume. I was told “this is the way the ocean smells “. And I believed it. The lies became more outrageous towards the end. Right before the discard I caught him on a huge lie. I found empty containers of Viagra and cialis. I asked him and he could not show me the tablets. “They got lost somehow. “. Unbelievable. I did not even know he had a prescription for that. The truth was he used them with the co worker. Lies and lies.
Doesn’t it feel great not being played like an idiot anymore ? He must have laughed behind my back, probably with her. “Look how stupid and dumb my wife is, she believes all that b/s”. And I really did.
Once I removed myself , stayed no contact , got clarity. Then this lies came back and actually made sense. He never told the truth. And the biggest lie was when he told me “I love you”. I am so relieved to be out of this crazy making drama. I can finally be on the light again.

Congratulations to you also! Drama is exactly what was going on. Isn’t it a pleasure to have peace and quiet? Enjoy your new life!

I can relate to everything here. While my recent ex didn’t cheat, he lied to me our entire 4 year relationship. As a veteran, his whole persona and everything I did to support him was based around his war experiences, his time as a Marine and his combat PTSD. Around 4 months ago when he started to push me away because of his depression and I desperately researched ways to support a loved one in depression, it “accidentally” came our through a family member, in reality he was never a Marine or a vet or in war…..4 years of lies straight to my face, story after story, detail after detail. Better yet, as we decided how to handle it, he continued to lie and blame me because he “knew I would get mad.” He would get angry at me for calling him out. I am completely flabbergasted on how one does this to another caring, loving human being. I just cant.

Wow. That is so outrageous . He made himself a war veteran and he really wasn’t ? What a liar. I still cannot believe what kind of crazy lies I was fed. At the same time I was blamed for the “failure ” of the marriage. My ex demonized me in every way possible. After more than 20 years he “rewrote ” the entire history of our marriage. I was the mentally unstable one because I exposed him. I became the best detective. But still I believed his lies. One of his favorite answer was “I don’t recall. ” or “I don’t know “. I even caught him lying about paid time off. He took paid leave and acted like he was going to his nightshift. Instead he spent all night with the young co worker. When I discovered this on his pay stub I was told “I was crazy, mentally ill”. I needed to be sent to a mental institution.
I so grateful I have this new wonderful life. No more lies. No more blaming. No more pain. No more stabbing me in the heart. I am so blessed.

You are so blessed because I know you know you deserve so, so much better than that!

My ex did the same thing. I was the abusive one. I was the bitch. I had drug and alcohol problems. I was the cheat. Then after it was I kept him from our daughter. Really? The daughter you tried to tell the judge wasn’t yours? That one? No sir that is you.
Thankfully I am well known as a quiet and kind person around our area…and half the time he tries to tell this crap to people who know me well.

Wow! I can’t believe this..I was in a 4 year relationship also with someone who said he was military. Every detail he gave was so real. But, in actuality, he wasn’t…How do they do it to us?

I don’t know if we will ever have an answer to that but indo know we both deserve way better than that.

Roxy17
Yes Roxy, I was married to the kind of liar who blamed me for his lying too. He said he HAD to lie to me, because I asked him questions and wouldn’t stop asking. The thought to tell the truth NEVER occurred to him.

But you can help yourself to understand how one does this to another caring loving human being by understanding that HE IS NOT NORMAL, he is DISORDERED. And that’s why he is so BIZARRE when choosing his behavior.

Hi kaya48
Hope you celebrated your FREEDOM anniversary! I enjoy mine more every year, as it falls on 31 Dec. 😀
and ps Kaya, my daughter is now doing GREAT. I am SO proud of her.

Sorry sweetie, I hate to tell you but he was cheating. I didn’t think mine was either until my PIs found that he had been “juggling” MULTIPLE lovers (including men). Thank goodness for condoms! Get tested, take care of yourself and remember that being in denial doesn’t help you, it only imprisons you.

One of the biggest “helps” I had was reading Donna’s story about how this was a “lesson” I had to learn. I resisted that idea for a long time, the anger and desire for revenge wouldn’t allow me to accept she had done this to me. Now I am “getting” the lesson part. Unfortunately we all have to learn that “they walk among us”. There is a benefit to accepting this as a lesson, as hard as that is to embrace (it was for me anyway), I am much smarter now and have my guard up constantly because I am the trusting type. As long as you remain aware this is always a possibility you can protect yourself from further exploitation. In my case it was two in a row. 2010 – Mortgage fraudster, 2012 – Immigration fraud. I had to learn or lose everything. I also architected the divorce “my way” to ensure everything was protected.

Reading this helps a lot. I was stuck at the he has no consequences for his actions stage for a good while. I am finally starting to let that go and focus on the lesson learned parts.

Roxy17
Yep, what they do makes perfect sense when you realize they follow the path of DISORDERED personalities. That’s what Disturbed personality disordered people do. LIE, CON, STEAL, and many times, terrorize.

Roxy… it’s really hard to get past that part!! I did the same, questioned constantly how could he not care how much he was hurting me over and over again??? How could he have NO conscience? It’s too much for us to grasp because we have an overabundance of compassion (that’s why we were their targets in the first place… we’re all givers and they see that immediately). It’s great that you’re moving past that part because there’s really nothing that can be done to change the disturbing reality.

Unfortunately, the lesson learned is really about us, not the spath. We all have to come to an understanding of what drew us so easily to these manipulators, we need to ask why we ignored our gut reactions about him and why were we so sure even though we did see signs along the way that told us everything we needed to know. We have to ask ourselves all of these questions, but do it with the understanding that we are NOT the ones at fault for the mess created by the spath. We are not to be blamed for the wrong-doings of a mentally disordered person!! But we do need to look at our own role because it will enlighten us about why we are too quick to trust and love, and why we’re so afraid of being rejected by these abusers! We need to open our eyes about ourselves so that we can grow and be 100 times better than we ever thought possible!

After filing for divorce from my ex, a avalanche of truth came down on my head. The over time he was doing at work? He was screwing his brother’s wife, the babysitter and or some woman he told me was his cousin…his mom was an only child, and his dad had a brother. The best was the explanation for why he broke into the house and violated the restraining order to only take his military file. All along he told me it was a medical discharge for a serious injury to his arm. YEAH RIGHT! He was given a psychological discharge. He was diagnosed Antisocial Personality Disorder and described as “unfit for service”. All this from his mom and older brother. When asked why they didn’t tell me before…would I have believed them…well I guess they had a point there.

Hi Andi…. my ex’s family didn’t bother telling me my ex spath is a pedophile. I had to figure that out on my own. It was quite horrifying being that I saw his porn and other evidence. Those things don’t go away easily. It was April when I saw it and I still can’t move past it, but I’m getting there (through therapy and support from friends). It’s funny that he still tries to deny it to me, even though he knows I saw it with him sitting right there opening every file on the computer (and he now thinks I took pictures and video of the hours we spent with me forcing him to show me everything on his computer… hard to explain, but he thinks I have proof against him – not sure if that’s good or bad!). Anyway… off on a tangent there! What I meant to say was I can relate to the lies and the things that you believed the whole time you were together only to find out it was all BS. It’s devastating!! And it shows nothing he said or did can be trusted.

Gaslit,
How are things going?
I know you had a small setback.
I hope things are back on track now.
Hugs,
Stronginthecity

Not
So happy to hear your daughter is doing great. Yes, I did celebrate my one year divorce anniversary and my over 2 years of no contact. I learned a lot in those years. Most importantly I learned to love myself regardless of my own flaws. I feel free now because my ex husband became my entire life , I as a person did not exist anymore. I feel good not trying to gain his approval which I never did. And also it’s great not playing detective anymore. Because that’s not who I really am. My life became quieter and more peaceful. I learned that all my good qualities of empathy and compassion and also love are not weaknesses. Like I was told for so many years.
As for my ex. I occasionally receive a nasty note with my alimony check. Usually I just move them into a folder called “evil” as instructed by my lawyer. One note baffled me though “you are the worst mother in the world “. I know he tried to get a response out of me with this statement. But it shows that he is still the same evil , manipulative monster he always was and always will be. And my silence, my no contact is still my victory.
It wax a tough road to travel. And I am still recovering but I will not what happened to my family define me as a person.

I don’t know if Donna has commented or can comment on the possibility that us “targets” have a tendency toward codependence? I realized this about my self, I “want” to please, I want to have others see me as valuable seeking my self esteem externally. This is my focus right now, discerning to what extent this is true for me.

Me too 😩 Codependent I think. Started out with my dad that now I am certain was a SP, N, ass ! Always the shinny star we all wanted to hold. Except for when he disappeared, locked himself in his room for days refusing to see any of us. All the while my mom begging him to PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE. WHAT HAD SHE DONE WRONG ? What had the children done wrong. One day he would come out as if nothing ever happened and it would all begin again. I think my childhood set the stage for the victimization of my adult life. Never felt worthy, loved , or accepted. Today all I ever wanted in life was to be loved. I let this happen to me. As long as I stay in this bed paralyzed I’m still doing this to me. I’ve got to get up. I’ve got to change. I’ve got to live better for me. I just need to do it.

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