While in the height of conflict with psychopaths or those with psychopathic features, sometimes, we scare people. I don’t mean Halloween “scary costume” scary. I don’t mean “things that go bump in the night” scary. No, I mean “take a look at yourself” scary. There are those around us who will see us go through what we do, and back away, simply because they realize that what we are experiencing or have experienced is just too strange and horrible to handle.
Maybe they don’t understand. Maybe they don’t know what to say to us, as this is a special type of trauma. Often, some of us give others a “pass” for those reasons. That is perfectly understandable. However, I believe that there are those who do know and understand, yet still choose to bury their heads.
Why are there those with such feelings of trepidation? If they become involved, even with only the minor facts of our stories, they may be forced to face the possibility that they could be in our positions at some point in time. It may be too unpleasant for them to imagine. No one is immune to these experiences and the thought of our plights becoming theirs may be overwhelming. Some may feel that is best to pretend as though this could not occur in their worlds.
How will we know?
We should not expect those around us to come out and express their fears. It is possible that they are not even consciously aware of their feelings, actions or responses. Nonetheless, if they are, in fact, afraid, it becomes clear before long, even though initially we may misinterpret that fear as something else.
What will they do?
They may pull away, be unwilling or unable to listen, or attempt to make light of our feelings on the matter. They may suggest that we are not feeling the feelings we say we are or that we need to “get over it” and move on, offering little support.
What should we do?
While moving forward is important, it is a gradual process and will come in time. If we encounter those who think this way, we should try our hardest not to internalize what they do or say, or in many cases, fail to say. This is very important because we should not take on any more unnecessary burden. It’s not healthy or helpful. We do not need to process their baggage in addition to that with which the sociopath has left us.
It may hurt at first because it is unpleasant and frustrating, but in the end, as with much of the rest of the issues that surround these experiences, their reactions may turn out to be a gift. As we grow and become whole again, we usually come to see the people who reacted in this manner very differently. We may no longer like what we see. We may come to see them as very “go along to get along,” and lose respect, because it is hard to respect those who stands for nothing. We may come to realize that these relationships were littered with conditions. The most important one being the demand for silence in our times of need.
As we recover
With recovery should also come some form of a rebirth, where we emerge better than we were before. As I have said before, we may sometimes need to leave our old methods of quantifying “better” behind. This may not materialize in the traditional sense. For example, if stripped financially, we may never be where we would have been under different circumstances. If faced to choose different career avenues, we may never achieve a level we once dreamed of. In truth, the scars the psychopaths may be very deep. However, that is not to say that once we do redefine, that we cannot find happiness and satisfaction. We can. Further, when we have little to lose, we may be willing to take some risks that go completely against our grains, but are sometimes necessary to excel. What this means is highly individual.
In the process, we may benefit greatly from purging ourselves of the negative relationships, that surprisingly are not just attached to the psychopaths or individuals with psychopathic features who are or were in our lives. We may need to take this action with those we “scare.” We can only control our actions, so we must act in ways that benefit our health and well being. With that, we will have energy for those who do matter.
In time, some may end up wishing they had handled things differently. Many won’t be phased either way. But maybe if they had, they would have learned a thing or two about their own strengths. However, they chose their safety nets of silence, demonstrating only their weaknesses.
I recently saw an inspirational quote that stated, “hard times reveal true friends.” That could not be more right on. Real friends do not scare easily, they walk with us through this time as best they can. Those who won’t, may not deserve to walk with us in our good times either. These experiences give us the opportunity to see the difference in a world where sometimes things get murky. Good luck out there!
It really is wonderful to get this stuff to them as young as possible. Good post.
Hi this is my first post. I stumbled across this site 2 or 3 weeks ago after devouring ” the Sociopath next door” I have known for a couple of years about Narcissism – NPD and immediately identified the traits and behaviors that I was being subjected to. I met my shining beacon of deception back in 07. Looking back I am baffled at just how many times she was able to convince me to stay, that it was somehow another misunderstanding, that we just have different styles of communication, that I had just been alone so long I didn’t know what being in a real life relationship was like… The problems always revolved around those of the opposite sex. Ex sexual partners, men she worked with, men we met while we were on dates, … Flirtation, reciprocation, really bad judgement, massive double standards- the exact same things she had claimed bothered her she would do, and the entitlement, don’t get me started. The last opportunity that I squandered to escape was just 2 weeks before the wedding, and by 2 weeks after we said I do, I knew I had a profoundly unethical person who was now attacking the exact positions I had very tentatively agreed to trust her word on , and even more acted like she had never heard before. The attack on my Psche, my value system, and the progressive character assassination that followed isolated me and sent me into a deep depression. My faith has always been the center of my life and so when faced with these bizarre challenges I reached out to the congregation overseers. Unfortunately the one I chose was the worst one I could have gone to. When I met with him he was spot on, very insightful, brought up some of the same articles I had referenced, and absolutely assured me I would get some needed help. After meeting alone with her his counsel and demeanor changed 180 degrees. During the meeting she brought up the fact that this overseer used to hold on to her hand for a long time when he talked to her and that she was afraid I would see and get mad. Of course the inappropriateness of this and the failure of him to inform me at the outset created a massive conflict of interest in which her behaviors were condoned and I was given strong counsel . Over the next couple of years I continued to reach out to others explaining these events and the latest inappropriate encounters and flirtations . Each time the outcome was basically the same . They always could find ways to give me strong counsel, and each time you could almost hear them saying “don’t worry girl, we’ve got your back” wink, wink. Eventually under the guise of apologizing to me this overseer when I articulated the individual offenses looked me in the eye and said “None of those things ever happened” That’s right he gaslighted me. Now I understand, the social director of the community who seems to channel joy itself, and have you tasted her cooking ? Amazing. Not to mention she always supports the ministry. Now add to her word the word of a Pillar in the community. Besides my truths are ugly and unpleasant . Their lies are much more palatable . So now what do I do ? I educate myself. I try to put things in perspective. My faith in the teachings and doctrines has never been the issue. My faith as in confidence in the appointed men is a different story. When those you would have trusted implicitly at one time prove otherwise or fail to step up – when trials betray their lack of integrity, that they are easily swayed by deceptions or politics, or simply that they are inept, you are forced to reevaluate . Difficult as it is going through it, once I had been reduced to a cautionary tale through the slanderings of the one who continues to profess her love and concern for me I have now been forced to acknowledge just how masterful she is at perpetrating her composite of evil, fully entitled, and of course never being really held accountable . So until I’m able to fully remove myself from the realm of influence of these pseudo spiritual politicians,deceptions will abound. Others, mostly decent folks who’s hearts have been stolen by by her are not likely to see the true cause but only the effects, so their comments, their opinions are likely to be off base.we need to give ourselves permission to filter their opinions and dogma. When we have done the work, and gotten to the place where we know our instincts are solid, and that if we had followed them in the first place it would have saved us a lot of trouble, then we don’t need someone who may not have a clue to tell you you’re wrong. That you should ignore your instincts. Thank you for such a well written article. It was helpful, and I think important and validating.
Welcome 4light , hopefully you will find sharing your frustrations and your clear sense of betrayal by this woman and members of your congregation therepeutic and validating. Many here, including male members of the community who do post though in fewer numbers than the ladies will relate to your experience of manipulation so do continue to post. All the very best and God bless.
welcome 4light2shine,
It’s very frustrating to have a marriage mate that “is in good standing” and “looks good” to the congregation.Especially when they’re so good at manipulating and covering over what is really happening “behind closed doors”.You begin to doubt your own sense of what is truly happening.Don’t forget though that no matter how smart these people,they cannot “out-maneuver” God when it comes to finally being exposed!Don’t lose your trust in congregation arrangements because of a man or even a few men.Keep your faith strong and do what you must to remain sane and to survive.
They trick everyone…therapists, some friends, some family members, and yes, people of faith. Some sociopaths are therapists, friends, family members and yes, people of faith. They are like robots/computers and can scan a human and know exactly how to con them. It leaves us feeling like we are the crazy ones. But, it is them…and their ability to trick just about every person in their path.
Thank you Tea Light, Blossom4th, and Fight for the warm welcome. I’ve read some of your posts from other articles and have enjoyed your insights. I had a bit of trepidation about posting, but reading some of your comments helped me to see the benefit of being a part of this unique community if even in a small way. So far I’m very impressed with the quality of articles here. Take care.
I think it helps a lot to post…kind of like journaling. However, also feeling truly heard by others in similar situations.
I know it is not my job to try to re-parent, yet find my relentless self asserting to DH to respect himself to his ex-spath, who is relentless in denying and counter-attacking, knowing full well that DH was doing the same to me for too long. It’s like extreme and ugly defensiveness. I have not been stolen from financially, as his ex was doing and is with her current spouse, though time and faith have definitely been stolen, as well as many things that 4Light2Shine mentions losing. In my case I’ve outlined DH’s hypocrisy strongly enough that he is seeing and admitting it, finally, and seems to be trying to stop that, and will at least relatively quickly apologize when he’ll still lash out. I watched Good Will Hunting, and was struck by how much DH is just like Will, who when I looked up his psychological profile, online it’s noted to be PTSD which a counselor told us he’d be surprised if DH didn’t need treatment for following marriage with his ex-spath, upon hearing some of the super manipulative blaming done by email still. Likewise following his abusive upbringing. DH has looked up some treatment options and providers, and is reading about the most successful treatment option for PTSD. He asserts his devotion to improving, which yes, I’ve heard is common. Though, as noted long ago, here, he is overall a really nice guy (to me in ways he chooses, and of course to others), until he feels under psychological pressure, by my being mad or something, where acting as if a grown up is no longer absolutely impossible, and he is improving. So, while I’m at the breaking point, because DH has given this a lot of effort lately that I’ve seen and heard, I am counting slight infractions still and watching those efforts very carefully. But I am definitely tired of doing and of my own choosing to do this/stay here.
newstepmom:
It sounds like you are struggling with a lot on your mind today.
I am wondering if you have seen proof that his ex is a sociopath stealing money or if your husband has just told you this? Many personality disordered people will lie about ex’s, especially to keep you from talking to the ex directly. Just something to think about.
There are so many personality disorders and mental illnesses, that it would be difficult to fully identify one from a movie character description. I can suggest that you go to medlineplus.gov or nimh.gov to read through all of the medically recognized identifying traits of different disorders and illnesses to be more solid about what he could have in your opinion from observing him during your time together.
While people with PTSD can often have dissociation and be numb to feelings, they do not normally display a lot of the traits of a sociopath or someone with borderline personality disorder. People with PTSD feel empathy, don’t have a pathology of lying, stealing, have a fake persona, etc.
Many sociopaths, people with anti-social personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, and others will often “jump to” attention when they can tell you are ready to get away from them. My spath has repeatedly stated he will seek help by reading books and attending counseling. The books are never “right” for him so he quits reading as soon as he sees himself in them. He always sabotages the counseling or he goes in and pretends to be fine and, after a few weeks, gets an A+ from a therapist who doesn’t know he/she is being tricked. My borderline ex actually does go to his counseling most of the time, he does read books, he has a great deal of empathy, and he knows when he has crossed the line. However, when defensive, angry, regressing, etc., he will display sociopath behaviors…and then feel terrible about it and I believe doesn’t understand himself at all. PTSD can bring out some borderline tendencies. However, those usually tend to be less brutal behaviors like high anxiety, hypervigilence, some fear and some paranoia, and agitation.
I am thinking of you today and hope you will continue to share what you are going through so you can sort it all out. I would definitely suggest reading as much as you can about all mental illnesses and all personality disorders. There is a very good article in the Archives here (go up to the About link and choose the Archives link) which compares Borderline Personality Disorder to Sociopaths. It was very helpful to me. It is by Becker and you may have to do a keyword search, but you may also be able to go to the right side of the page and look through recent articles because I saw it maybe about 10 days ago. I may try to see if I can bring it back up for you on the left of the home page.
Also, look at all of Donna’s videos. Check out the Red Flags of a Sociopath. Go to those other medical sites. See if you can narrow down the behaviors to one or more of the illnesses your husband may have. Trust what you are experiencing and witnessing from him. He may truly be searching for his own diagnosis, but that can often be a ploy that can drag on for years where they will act in an unacceptable way and then learn “the ropes” for how to control you by being super nice, apologetic, gifts, withdrawing from you claiming they must “think,” making you think it is you, and on and on. There are similarities, but many abusive people come up with a special combo that speaks to you specifically so you will back off and the cycle begins again with them in control of you.
I know I keep repeating this a lot here. But, read as much as you can about everything it could possibly be. Patricia Evans has some excellent books about Verbal and Emotional Abuse. One of her books even has a contract each member of the couple creates, agrees to, and signs, with expectations of how unacceptable words or actions will be handled when noticed. You probably know his patterns better than anyone. At this point, I suggest that you start researching outside of him and what he says by educating yourself about what you are witnessing and experiencing from him. Take care of yourself today.
Really great article. Thank you Linda.x I have struggled with coming to terms with friends and even family members I scared ( yeah I was pretty scarey and extremely afraid and sad – its no fun) and lost when I was having such a terrible time – there are some I most certainly didn’t though… great to read today and so helpful and thought provoking.x
I feel very hurt by my family. I was constantly doing for them and their children for decades. I am also the family comic, and they got very angry for not taking care of them all during their traumas AND always being ready to put on a show! It has shocked me how hateful they have become. I am estranged from them. It was devastating to realize that I was loved for what I was doing….and for being funny….and when those things became too difficult for me, my family was very cruel.
Dear FFWR
I am so sorry that your family have been so cruel. I remember when reading others experience of trauma and depression on line when I was in such a bad place myself after the ‘relationshit’ and they’d say things like ‘I don’t know where i’d be without the support of my family’ I’d just start to cry!
I have posted somewhere else on this thread about how I believe that the devastation I experienced after ‘the discard’ ultimately left me with a healthier attitude to friendships. Which is all well and good but the process sucked:(
With my family – what happened for me was that in learning and understanding about sociopaths and Narcissists and trying to understand MY part in why I was so easily manipulated, I recognised that My mother had very strong narcissistic traits and to cut a long story short my sister , myself and her had been engaged in an unholy ‘trinity’ of behaviour with eachother in which I had been brought up as ‘the scape goat’… taught to accept the unacceptable, and almost never allowed to have personal boundaries or to expect my needs met – that I existed to meet theirs.(perfect plum picking for a sociopath)
I cut off all contact with my mother for 4 years.( I isolated myself from nearly everyone else too at the time – in my other post I have tried to say why I think that was.)
I recently started having contact with my mother again though – I feel ‘aware enough’ and strong enough now ( much reading on the subject of being a child of narcissistic parents, much thinking; from the bonkers to the rational!) but I am still very careful not to get into the old ‘dynamic’ and keep things short and sweet and make sure I have time outs from her. I think I have found a much healthier way of being with her than before. I don’t feel pain or anger towards her anymore, but I don’t forget who she is. ( caveat – I don’t suggest that everyone parents are narcissists that get stung by a sociopath or that anyone else should put up with narcissists just cuz they’re family… I’m doing what feels okay for me.x)
My sister has found it very difficult to empathise with what has happened to me.
It might be because she hasn’t had much practice due to our ‘family dynamic’.
It might be because she is the sort of person who cant stand to hear bad things because she cant ‘fix’ them.
Maybe its because she is the sort of person who’s value of others is based on how useful or amusing they are to her – I was not either anymore.
Maybe its because my depression was so dark and scary.
Her reaction was to ostracise and exclude, to exacerbate things rather than comfort. For example she never called me – but she did tell just about everyone she could that I was I was bi-polar – so helpful ( don’t have a problem with anyone who suffers from this BTW – but I am not) – and even ‘foaming at the mouth’!
She wouldn’t allow me near her child when she was born, threw family birthday parties and neglected to invite us…all this after always using me as HER emotional cheerleader… gas lighting? Punishment for no longer towing the line? her deciding I was too depressed and wouldn’t want to come to anything anyway?
Maybe one day we will rebuild our relationship – but it will be different because of my experience – I’m different – and maybe right now she doesn’t see anything ‘in that for her’ maybe she never will – but I cant be the scapegoat anymore. end of. this is a good thing. this will have to be fine.
A book I found helpful while ‘unpacking’ my family’s and my behaviours was ‘children of the self absorbed’ by Nina Brown. ( I know others haven’t found it so helpful but I did!)
Please keep trucking FFWR, and being kind to yourself, especially if no one else is. xx And I hope sharing a bit of my story ( or endless waffle!) will at the least help you feel that you are so not alone!
blueskies:
Thank you so much. Our stories sound very similar except it is my father who is an off-the-charts narcissist. It is interesting you said something about other family members creating “the holy trinity.” We were taught to worship him by my mother. Everything was said and done to keep him happy. I, too, was the big scapegoat in my family. I was beaten, slapped, verbally, and emotionally abused regularly. He moved us away from a progressive part of the country to the South where his belief system fit right in. I was 16 and one sister was 14. We had been socialized differently. I think that’s why he moved us. We actually thought our gender was equal! I now say that we were “sister wives” to my mother. We were lucky he did not want to sexually abuse us. If he had, my mother would have easily looked the other way. However, two of his brothers and one of their friends sexually abused us….and THEY are the ones he move us close to!
I am very isolated because of going through a trauma at work and really have no friends that I see. I have an ex-boyfriend spath who is now a lodger on a property I own and an ex-husband who I believe is borderline personality. So, some help from two people whom are both unreliable leaving me often feeling less than supported. This website and people like you posting support for me have changed the way I deal with both of them and the way I think about my future choices.
Thank you so much, blueskies. I needed a lot of support today as Lodger spath had surgery again yesterday and won’t be able to walk normally any time soon if at all. Today, because of the support I have from Donna, the posters here, and what I have learned here, I got off the phone fast when the conversation became one of “deceitful entitlement” with him. The last three times he was in the hospital, I felt obligated to call him and then I would take abuse. Today, I quickly said, “Well, I’ve got to go now (after returning his call). Have a good lunch.” I won’t call him again. He will have to do the calling and if he doesn’t, he doesn’t have a ride home….or any home. The support here has raised my self esteem up and I am so grateful.
There is another, darker reason why some people are uncomfortable with our revelations, sometimes even seeming to disapprove of them: they may be abusers and spaths themselves.
I suspect I’ve witnesed this many times: their reaction of discomfort when I describe my travails, and then, often much later–as if they’d spent some time ruminating on the issue–their coming out with an actual defense or “alternative” interpretation of the bad behavior I’d described.
It has always puzzled me…until very recently, with the growing realization that miscreants stick together on a basic level, to some degree at least.
I don’t want to be a downer after such a positive and inspiring article, but caution is always advisable when we are so vulnerable. I learned this the hard way during and shortly after my marriage to the spath, when I spilled my guts to new friends who seemed to care but later demonstrated that they were more focused on what they could gain financially by means of our friendship. And so while it’s certainly true that real friends stand by us when we are down and out, it’s also advisable to “Beware the friends you make in your misfortune.”
I must also state another dark truth–again I apologize for the pessimism, but this is the way I have seen it: during my darkest time–and it wasn’t when I was with the spath–certain family members who had previously basically turned up their noses at me suddenly behaved as if they were so caring and concerned. Maybe it’s simply that my previous good luck had never inspired their concern–and why would it? But it seemed it never inspired their affections either! Maybe they were jealous of my charmed life…for they were never friendly before disaster hit me.
liferaft, sadly I have to agree with your dark observations. I have experienced this firsthand. Think about it. If I am a predator running a pretty good front, good enough that you come to me seeking help or support from another freak, would it serve me well to really assist you ? Probably not. If you are getting wise to the con and want to warn others and share your insights, ect, I don’t want you blabbing, and drawing attention. What would serve me better ( if I were an evil shapeshifter ) would be to take you down a few notches, to punch holes in your story, to gaslight you, to sabotage your credibility with others. Anything to keep you down, depressed, anxious, confused, hey a full mental breakdown would really be convenient and useful. I’m very familiar with this stuff. Because my primary spath is female there is usually complicity already with any regional cluster B types so conflict of interest is almost unavoidable. Regarding friends, I feel you there too. Learning to reevaluate to see the difference between friends and people I’ve known for a long time. That’s been a tough one for me. I truly value my real friends much more than I used to. See I found something nice to say. Let’s end with that !