I have heard it suggested that there may be those who “attract” psychopaths. It does not matter what the relationship. Some feel that there are people who are simply prone to involvement with individuals with psychopathic features. Is this true? Maybe. Maybe not.
Why do they feel this way?
Talk to victims. There are many who have been involved with psychopaths who feel that they are “everywhere.” The same story keeps happening over and over. It’s like Ground Hog Day or Fifty First Dates. Perhaps these victims have had several romantic experiences with psychopaths. Perhaps they feel many of their family members are psychopaths. Others report experiencing a variety of different encounters in various areas of life.
On the surface, it may seem like an easy conclusion to come to. I, on the other hand, believe that we have not even begun to understand just how complicated an issue this really is, which may be influenced by many different factors. Here are some of my thoughts.
A psychopath “behind every bush?”
Among the general population, there are not “psychopaths behind every bush.” However, psychopathy does occur along a continuum. It is a spectrum disorder of sorts. In other words, one person may exhibit only a few traits of psychopathy. Another may exhibit some or all.
Therefore, the numbers of troubling individuals may actually be higher than once suspected. If we only count those who are affected by the disorder as those who fit the criterion for a clinical diagnosis, we are leaving many troubling individuals out of the statistical equation. That does not mean, however, that they are not present in our lives, wreaking havoc.
What do we do about all of the sub-clinical folks who may be just as troubling and dangerous as those amongst the prison population or those who have created enough of a stir to warrant in-depth assessments? We may need to take another look at how we decide who is “psychopathic enough” to gain our attention, as many routinely “fly under the radar.”
Once we know about psychopathy and the other Cluster B disorders, we may begin to recognize those with the disorders or a number of their features.
How is psychopathy assessed and why do we care?
To briefly explain, one of the instruments available for measuring psychopathy is the PCL-R, which was developed by Dr. Robert Hare. Only trained mental health professionals are to diagnose using this tool. However, if we look at the checklist items, we are able to decide for ourselves if we know individuals who exhibit the various behaviors. If these occur frequently and/or consistently, over time, we may know someone with psychopathy.
With this measure, professional evaluators are able to assign a score ranging from 0 to 40. Time is beginning to show that this assessment is more successful among some groups of offenders than others.
Non-psychopathic individuals tend to have scores of about a 4 or 5 on the PCL-R. Survival dictates that we must all possess a small number of traits which allow us to act in our own best interests. However, do not be confused. Higher scores likely do not correlate with what is being argued may be adaptive behavior.
The motivations of non-psychopaths are very different from those of psychopaths or those with elevated features. Disorder and adaptation are two different things.
Understanding the psychopathy “numbers game” is helpful so that we do not become too attached to a score, accepting it as the only thing that matters.
Does the number matter?
A score of 30 has been established as the cut score for psychopathy, acknowledging a score of 20 as high, and of possible potential concern, but still sub-clinical. But what about those with scores of 15 or 18? Not exactly psychopathic, but not “normal.” We must acknowledge that we need to look at the facts of cases involving these individuals collaterally. These individuals may be of great concern as well. Ask anyone who has dealt with them.
It is also worth noting that how the score was attained may be of importance.
The real world
So, even if they are not “behind every bush,” understanding the disorder and how these features tend to present should be of great importance to the general population. The chances are good that most of us will be at least superficially involved at some point.
The extent of our involvement may vary, depending on many outside variables. However, I do not think it is safe to suggest that there may be some who “attract” psychopaths.
Granted, we may need to examine some of our vulnerabilities, train ourselves not to ignore red flags, and control some of our behaviors and responses, but we should not internalize our involvement too much and no one should lay blame on anyone for their involvement.
I have said it before, and I will say it again; we did not choose these people. We chose the persona they pitched us.
What about the frequency among family members?
Among families, however, the “psychopaths everywhere” concept may be somewhat different. Science continues to examine whether psychopathy is genetic or environmental. While it seems that both may play a role, research strongly supports that a genetic component exists.
As a result, it is possible that there are many psychopathic individuals in a particular family. This does not mean that everyone will be afflicted, but it may mean that there is an over representation of the disorder in a blood line.
Therefore, it is likely that a non-psychopathic family member may feel “surrounded” by psychopaths. Simply put, the numbers may be far greater than in a family without a predisposition for the condition. It can be a difficult situation to navigate regardless of the causes.
In the end
Ultimately, it does not matter if psychopaths are “everywhere” or not. To those involved, even if they are only “somewhere,” the problems tend to be significant. Whether we are simply more in tune to human behavior, we “attract” them, or we live among more than others due to genetics or rearing tendencies, without an understanding, they can be the most trying people we know.
They have the potential to create problems in our homes, at work, or in our own backyards. The good is that once we understand their behavior patterns, we can better help ourselves and those we love.
Hi, There are millions of Co-Dependents everywhere that are easy prey by such personalities like that of very aggressive Carnivorous creatures that hunt passive Omnivores creatures. The Hunters only appear greater in number due to the abundance of more prey available today for such aggressive Beings to branch out further even more across our Society.
Hey Z
I close to near fell off my chair when I saw your name!!! It is a very familiar cultural name for me!!! I belong to a very small religious group called the Zoroastrians… any affinity with them? My name Imara by the way is the word in Swahili for strength!!! Got it because our local zoo got a baby Rhino and they named her Imara!!!
With regards to your comment, I would say that rather than call all victims co-dependents I would like to rephrase that and say all victims have been deliberately groomed to be compliant prey. It then becomes our job as “Normal” humans to consider what it is about us that allows that predator to enter our lives. Once we embark on that healing journey then our Co-dependency on the predator seems to fall away… It is a terribly hard and arduous journey…and as the wise ones say,the healing is not a destination but rather a process.
Lovely names both, Imara and Zenobia. Co-dependency is a concept I fear pathologises victims of abuse. It is still popular amongst psychoanaysts of various schools to theorise that abuse victims unconsciously chose abusive partners or experiences to satisfy masochistic leanings or because they “gain” from their victimhood in some ways such as enjoying the role of saintly sufferer and so on. This pathologising of those who are subjected to complex manipulations and patterns of abuse which change brain function over time , it does concern me.
Well Said!!!
I so agree Tea Light! I hate the term co-dependency for the reasons you mentioned…it makes it seem that we chose our course;our being victimized!
Absolutely. It’s a catch all word the puts blame on a victim. Victimizing the victim.
Hi Imara,
Zenobia is my Aunt’s name, and it means “Warrior Queen”. I’ve not studied about Zoroastrians. I’m a practicing Jain. I do agree with how you rephrased my comment:) Thank you!
My problem with the Hare Checklist is its emphasis on overt or “caught” criminality. Throw in parasitic lifestyle and fully 20 percent of the score may not be applicable to a “white collar” sociopath. Thus, I prefer differentiating psychopaths (classic per the Hare Checklist) vs. sociopaths — those who do not have a criminal history in the classic sense, but may for example violate SEC regulations in the name of “business” or say sell a used car with the clock rolled back… Or may not be criminal at all.
More important, as mentioned in the article, all Cluster-Bs are toxic and they may represent 15% of the general population.
I know this is a touchy subject but speaking as a gay man, both my observation, personal experience and statistics show that the gay community is particularly full of Cluster-Bs. In fact, my relationship with a sociopath was bookmarked by shorter ones (obviously) with Borderlines…
Virtually every time I go out, I experience what is at the very least “toxic” behavior. For example, recently this guy at a bar introduced himself to me. He was not really my type but after talking a bit he seemed like a nice guy. After two hours, I told him that I needed to go home and suggested that we exchange phone numbers — that is when he tells me that he has a boyfriend…
BBE: Your observations about gay men may provide insight about the nature versus nurture discussion.
I believe the scientific research shows that people are born gay. Unfortunately, many cruel and judgmental people in our society do not believe scientific research or what the gay community tells us. These people don’t believe all love is equal and they tend to be ignorant of science. They also refuse to listen.
So many gay people, especially in certain areas of the world, are maligned and bullied and abused. So, perhaps all of that abuse and shaming about who they are, loss of support often when they are ready to tell who they are and whom they love causes some gay people (especially those who lose family support also) to end up with the types of toxic mental illness you feel you experience more often than non-gay people. Let me know if I am not understanding you correctly. But, it sounds like you are frustrated because you feel you are running into more people with personality disorders in the male, gay community. I think abuse from others simply for being gay might play a role in the fact that too many in society do not nurture gay people. Is it possible that might make it more difficult to find a gay person who has been able to become safe and whole inside?
Fight;
I think it is not only due to society’s shaming of gays, at least historically, but it seems that biological factors that predispose an individual to sociopathy (i.e wonb testosterone levels) also predispose an individual to an individual to homosexuality.
First, I have to say that I love this sight, and I have told so many people about it. I rarely post anything, but today, I do want to add a thing or two. I am finally on the other side of a 50 year saga of being run and ruined by sociopaths. I was raised by a sociopath, but of course, no one knew that was what she was way back then. It took many years and many awful experiences with her before I knew there was something wrong with her. I always knew I couldn’t trust her, that she didn’t really care about me and that I was pretty much on my own. Thankfully, she worked full time, so I was with babysitters and other non-spath relatives most of the time . I had wonderful grandparents,and I had my dad’s personality, not hers. I grew up with love and am able to love, I have a conscience and empathy, so I know I am not a sociopath.
But, before I knew what they were, I married one. My husband and my mother hated each other on sight, because they were the same. Each one wanted control over me, yes I was letting them. It was all I knew. It felt comfortable, it felt right. I am a very intelligent person(or I used to be before peri-menepause started)but kids learn what they live. It seemed right that someone had control over me, ignored me until they wanted something. So I married my mother and had a wild 5 year ride. He cheated on me the whole time, but denied, denied, denied. He tried to make me think I was crazy for questioning him. The make up on the shirt?? Someone brushed against him on their way by, the Virginia Slims cigarrette in the car ashtray, his buddy borrowed them from his mom. Yadda Yadda Yadda. Our first pregnancy, he told me to abort, I said no, leave if you want . He stayed, and continued doing whatever he wanted to do, while threatening me, if you gain 1 more pound, I’m divorcing you.
Then baby number 2 ,2 years later, He really didn’t want that one. He told me he could not do what he wanted to in life with a wife and 2 kids, so as soon as the baby was born, he was leaving. He slept on the couch for the remainder of the pregnancy. But, he stayed, and kept doing whatever he wanted. I kept desperately trying to make our marriage “work”. When the girls were 1 and 3, he didn’t come home for 2 nights in a row. I was sure he was with another woman, but when he came home, he insisted that he had spent the nights in his boss’s basement, there was no other woman, I was crazy!!
Ok, great. I don’t really remember anymore the exact sequence of events, it was 29 years ago, but he had met someone while he was working on a street outside. This person saw him, and brought him a glass of lemonade. He told her he was divorced, his ex was a fat , ugly b****, ect. So, they began dating. She was a stewardess(that’s what they were called back then) She could afford to buy him cowboy boots and gold necklaces. He saw a greener pasture, so he left me and his daughters. It was hard, I fell apart for awhile. Then after a month, he wanted to come back. I agreed to try to reconcile for the girls sake. We spent a weekend together(stewardess was out of town), it went ok. So the next weekend, he told me he was going camping. I balked, we are in a crisis situation here and you are going camping??? Of course, the stewardess I didn’t know about and that he was living with was home that weekend. So the next weekend, same story. That’s when something clicked in me, some shred of self preservation, and I said , we are not getting back together , I am filing for divorce. And I did.
He freaked out, came over and started screaming at me, why?? why won’t you stay??? I was afraid of him, but he didn’t hit me, just started to, then stopped. We had already gone through that in the first year, I fought back, so he quit doing that. He just stuck with the controlling my every move and the emotional abuse to keep my in my place.
The stewardess found the divorce papers and realized he had lied to her about everything, she called me and asked me if it was true that we were jsut divorced a month ago, not a year ago. I told her it was true, she had the court papers in her hand. She said, oh my, it’s like he has a split personality, but I am staying with hem, i’m going to marry him and he will never do to me what he did to you. She did confirm that he cheated the whole time, she even told me where he had gone to pick up women. She was a nice person. Of course, he did the same to her, they divorced. But she kept trying to fix him and spent the rest of his life trying . Get together, split up., over and over. he died of brain cancer right after their daughters wedding. They had reunited that weekend, a month later he died. She put up a FB page for him and says he was the love of her life. ok.
I tried to learn from my mistakes, he had love bombed me, we married 4 months after we met, I never met any of his family, he kept me from my friends, and when he did meet my family, my mother hated him on sight, as much as I had loved hiim at first sight. I started working on myself, read every book I could, Women Who Love Too Much, Smart Women, Foolish Choices. I triedto figure out why I was so needy and would just accept any fool that came down the pike that said ” I love you ” to me. It took another bad choice, for 13 years and 1 son, but he didn’t cheat on me, he wasn’t emotionally abusive, he was just emotionally unavailable. Because of his childhood, alcholic father, etc, he was apit head, and he treated me like a piece of furniture. He only noticed me when he needed clean socks. I stuck with it, because, it was way better thatn the last one. But eventually, I realized I deserved more, that my son deserved at least one parent that was happy and emotionally healthy for his sake. I asked for a divorce, he agreed, it was pretty much drama free until about a month later, when he was awakened from his emotional stupor and wanted to come back. I refused. He backed down, and got together with an old girlfirend.
So, Here I am 13 years later, married to a good man that loves me totally and wildly. It’s been so amazing , he is a true partner. Not perfect, but neither am I. I am whole, happy and enjoying my life. I choose to not have a relationship with my so called mother, a few years ago we found out that she has been cheating on my dad for their whole 50 year marriage, which wasn’t really a 50 year marriege because she secretly divorced him after a seperation. He asked her what about the divorce papers? She said, I’ll take care of it. And she did, she divorced him and kept the final papers from reaching him. My sister was living with them because her husband of 7 years had an affair with a neighbor. So my sister took theri 3 kids and moved into my parents huge house. She knew the signs of a chheating spouse and saw them in our mother. She started investigating and foud out about her fling , she was 73 years old. My dad had no clue, but we found out where they were meeting, and we got proof on video.. Then he believed it. He ordered a copy of their divorce decree because he couldn’t believe that she had fooled him ( and all of us) for 30 years. But she did. Then he remarried her, we begged him not to, but he didn’t have the energy to stand up to her. He never has. He was the perfect cover for her, he worked hard, gave her everything she wanted and never questioned her wherabouts.My father is a very intelligent mand , but no match for her. Her boyfriend was a perfect patsy too. He believed her story of abuse from her husband and was there for her over the years wheenever she wanted him. And there werre other affairs over the years. I used to wonder why she would get so dressed up to go grocery shopping.
So now that I know what she is, my childhood makes sense.. I used to jolingly say I was raised by wolves. Not too far from the truth. So,, yes, a smart person can be taken in more than once by a spath. There all different levels of spaths. I know how to pick them out of a crowd now. I wouldn’t wish my life on anyone, but I lived and learned and decided to not be a victim, but a victor. I’m reading Dr. Phils book, Life Code on my kindle. Most of it I knew, up a refresheer is always good. He got dooped, him of all people, it’s an amusing story as he tells it.
Take heart all of you beautiful ones that have been spathed, there is a wonderfu life that is just waiting for you to create it!! Go and do that for yourself and your loved ones. You deserve it. You can live mostly hapily ever after. (Life is still hard) I should really write a book, there is so much more, but enough already!!
Myowngirl welcome! And what an incredible life you have had, please continue to share with us you have such insight and clarity into your experiences. I have to say, your mother secretly divorcing your father was quite a jaw dropper even after my 6 months now on LF. Peace and love to you and your loving husband.
My own girl – thank you so much for sharing your story. I am glad that you have finally found happiness.
Another very informative and thought-provoking article. Also, very interesting posts.
I believe being shown a false personality in the beginning is the major hook and I can’t fault myself for not knowing yet that there was a large group of people in the world who do that routinely.
However, I do see how I was then drawn into what should have been “deal breakers” after the love bombing and only being shown a normal person. I loaned money to both men in my life whom I can say fit into the range of Sociopath as I have looked at the list of character traits many times. One needed work clothes and it was a loan. The other was much more rude and almost demanded to borrow my credit card for a car emergency. For me, it then became a plan to get my money back and then decide.
Oh no! Another emergency? Well, I’ll get my money back and then decide.
Oh yes! Love bombs. Affection. Dreaming together about a future together. That feels good.
Dad was an abusive, gambling, narcissist and Mom was slave to keeping an eye on him and making his every thought her goal to keep him happy. We were all told that was our goal, too! Make Daddy happy and all will be well….until he brings out the belt or tells you at age 11 that only bad girls paint their finger nails as you paint your little fingers a light pink.
This guy thinks I’m great. He isn’t lowering my self esteem. He is raising it. Oh yes! I like that. Go, endorphins, go!
Uh-oh! This guy is raging and name calling and openly flirting with other women. Bye self esteem. No one will want me now. Dad said if I had sex with any man I wasn’t going to marry the first time (at age 24!) that no other man will ever want me. Dad was right. This guy is right. Bye self respect. Bye self love.
Now I need him. I need to wait for a crumb of kindness like a fish waiting for feeding time. Just swim around in life and wait…in between rages and other women and low self esteem Dad said I should have.
That’s my circle of life over 52 years. Two sociopaths and one Borderline Personality Disordered (which isn’t as bad, but not good) later, add in a few sexually harassing and demanding misogynistic bosses over time, and you have someone who doesn’t trust anyone anymore.
But, you also have someone who is trying, reading, learning, finding this web site, and starting to do a better job at taking care of herself. Who now walks out during a fit. Who won’t loan more than five bucks to another man ever again. No more crumbs.
I think they are attracted to us. Both of my sociopaths chased me and I live in a place where the women chase the men….which I refused to do. I wasn’t born in this part of the country. Where I cam from, males pursue. Where I was moved to as a teen, females will do anything to get a man. Anything. I’m not like that. I do have some standards. So, both sociopaths had to pursue me. By the time the first one went after me, I was almost 30. I had given up on finding a real man around here. My family and career were enough…I thought. Until the first love bomb…I guess.
They are able to zero in on the hopeless, the overly empathetic, the helpful and kind, and those of us with lowered self esteem. We don’t know any better…sometimes repeatedly. Now, we know. There is the internet. There are books. There are mental health sites. We can learn how to deal with them if we have to have them in our lives for some reason….usually money or kids.
I am going to stay here on lovefraud and keep reading the articles and the comments and encourage and be encouraged. No more love bombs for me. No more insecurity to the point of loaning money to a grown man. Thank you lovefraud.com.
Good work fight. I agree. If there is any spare money lying about after you’ve taken care of you and your dependents, give it to charity, don’t loan it to a grown man. Or woman.
Thank you Linda for another well written article. It’s really important to me to continue to develop my radar and tweak my instincts toward reading people. While the terms to describe them are relatively new to me, I definitely had some of these personalities around me since the beginning. When I discovered narcissism and NPD a few years ago I immediately saw that these were definitely the traits I was dealing with in my new wife. I was also pretty sure I had seen most of this in my grandmother on my mothers side. She was some piece o work. Unique, and always entertaining, but also shallow, dishonest, hot tempered, vindictive, and unreasonable. She had some redeeming qualities. She seemed to have some kind of affection for us kids. She could be generous, and she was usually fun to be around. Then there was my dads mother. Just a bizarre person. I never could quite figure what her deal was. Manipulative, deceptive, immoral, perverse, I could go on. Her demeanor to me often gave the impression of a overblown actress like in an old soap opera. Bottom line, she was evil. Not Hitler evil, but small time evil. I’m sure now that she was a sociopath. Right now I still live in the same home with my pseudo-wife but I try to keep interactions to a minimum. I suspect she is the same. She certainly is the most unethical person that I’ve had to deal continuously with, and toxic to be sure. I found out she had 2 exes that had complete mental breakdowns. I came close enough, trust me. For a time I had a convergence of several people in my life that showed themselves to be wolves of sorts. My Mngr at work quit after 5 years of snake in the grass behavior toward me. Every day for 5 years I knew he was gunning for me to get me fired. Lying, threatening in my face. The owners love me. I’m still here. Then there was my musical director in my band & so called friend. The charm, the charisma, and always the drama. Got burned like just about everyone else who worked with him long enough. A pseudo-shepherd at my place of worship. This one really did a job on me because of his position. Of course she flirted with all of them. Who knows maybe more than flirting. I think now I can spot the larger than life charismatic types . I seem to have developed an allergy to arrogant people. Keep the haughty far from me or I might vomit. Myowngirl can you share any insights on your ability to spot them in a crowd ? Maybe you should write that book. Hang in there Fight. Don’t let him suck you in.
4light loved “small time evil”. Great shorthand for subclinical cluster b personalities. Catchier, too!
Again, I love this sight, it helped me so much to know that I was not the crazy one, that there are more people out there trying to figure out what in the heck happend to their life?? I left out some major happenings in my life, that weren’t necessary to the big story. But, to answer how I can spot them I will have to give a little more of the early years. My so called mother kept me from dying, she gave me to her younger sister much of the time to care for me, my aunt loved me and we still have a good relationship. But, when children are not loved or wanted by their parents, even if they are not overtly abused in any way by them, the bad people know it. We almost have a mark on our forehead. It is easy to see that mark if your a pedophile, the child’s clothes aren’t clean or are too big or too small. Their hair is dirty or messy, their fingernails might be too long and dirty or bitten off. Anyway,if their is a predator in the vicinity, they will spot the child and begin their grooming. In my family, my father’s younger brother turned out to be a pedophile, I call him my child molesting alcoholic uncle, now deceased. He lived with us for a short time when I was under 2 years of age. No one knew he was a child molester at that time, but his grandfather was a molester, so it gets passed down. That was the first person to molest me. I had visual memories, but it was pre-verbal so they didn’t make any sense to me when I was older. But I knew they were there. When I was about 4 I drew a picture of a naked woman tied up, urinating and deficating. I proudly showed it to my mother. Instead of asking where in the world had I seens oomething like that,(this was 51 years ago way before internet) she told me that nice girls didn’t draw pictures like that. ok, I’m not a nice girl.
We lived next door to a large family of 9 children, the youngest was my age and my best and only friend. Her mother ended up babysitting me when I started school, I could just walk over there in the mornings. The father of this family had disapeared years before and was neveer found. He was a bartender and his wife thought that he overheard something he shouldn’t have and was killed. Among the older sibs, there were twins, one male and one female, teenagers. The female watched me at night on weekends when my parents would go out. Since my mother was bored out of her mind by staying home, this girl was at my house frequently. She was the next person to molest me. I remembered everything but as I got older, I thought it was my fault because I was a bad girl. I never told anyone. The twin brother was mean to me whenever he could be, he would pinch me really hard on the inside of my arm or pull my hair, call me names, but no one ever saw him do it, I was afraid of him and tried to stay out of his path.
One day he was really nice to me, he put me on the handlebars of his bike and rode up to a nearby drugstore and bought me candy. At the tiime, his family had a big tent set up in the back yard and I remember him taking me into it, one of his friends was smirking outside of it. I remember him getting on his knees and telling me to kiss him on his cheek, we were going to play house. I actually said no, he had acne and I did not want to do that. I know something else happened but my subconscience still feels that I am not ready to remember that. I’m ok with that.
So, if you go back into your childhood, and really try to remember things from your earliest memory on, most of us who have been a victim of spaths had something not so good happen to us, or many bad things. The book “The Courage to Heal ” was brought into my life at just the right time. I also did Healing YOur Inner Child and Becoming Your Own Parent. I could lnever afford professional help, but people were put in my life at the right times, and I did therapy with these friends and we helped each other. People that have been molested and otherwise harmed are naturally drawn to each other I think, we can see and feel each other’s pain. And Spath’s can see the opportunity to pounce.
Also, a major factor is that I was just dropped off at new babysitter’s houses with no explanation , I would just be in a new house with new people that I didn’t know, so I learned very quickly to be a chameleon and blend in , stay quiet, not cause trouble. In fact, that’s what my aunt tells me I was known for. I was the best baby, toddler, kid. I went anywhere without complaining. My aunt took me to her high school football games and her friends were amazed at how good I was and wondered why my mother would let me be out that late.
I’vee always been interested in psychology and did alot of reading on it from high school on. I kept trying to make sense of my life, my memories and experiences. I had a good many pieces to the puzzle, but there were things that I just couldn’t figure out. The missing pieces finally showed up 3 years ago. It is so nice to know that I was not a bad child, I had a bad parent, someone who should never have been a parent. And the other parent was never able to keep the bad parent in line.
I had to go through alot to get to the point that I can pick them out, they are the ones that have a group around them, all laughing at the funny stories. They come in all shapes, sizes, ages and levels of spathyness. I am so careful now who I let into my life. Anyone that was molested has that 6th sense about molesters, so I can combine that with my sensitivity to sociopaths and I have a really good radar system going. I wish I could download it and share it with everyone. Listen to your gut feeling, to that small little inner voice telling you this is too good to be true. But most won’t do that until they have had so much pain inflicted on them that it is truly a matter of life and death before they can get themselves away. And then they feel such a sense of anguish and longing to be back where it was comfortable and they knew what to expect.
That’s where this sight is so invaluable!!! I found it at the perfect time to help me not go off of the deep end when all of the ugly truth about my parent came to light. I still read most of the articles that Donna puts out. We all need regular reinforcement to stay healthy. Thank you to all of the commenters, you all made me cry today, it’s so great to be able to tell my story, I had to hide secrets for most of my life, but no more!! I wish you all the courage and strength you need to make your life what you want and deserve it to be.
Myowngirl I just want to thank you for your posts, for helping us understand your experiences. I found your openness and candour very moving as recently we were having a discussion here about how wary many survivors of sexual abuse can be about discussing this type of abuse, even anonymously, even here on LF which is in my experience a very safe and respectful community. So I just applaud your willingness to be so honest about the abuse you have encountered and found the resilience to overcome. I too read Becoming Your Own Parent, three years ago, after accepting I could no longer continue to avoid confronting growing up in a household with an alcoholic father who regularly attacked by mother, who became barely able to function after divorcing him, leaving me to parent my sister who I was unable to protect from being molested by my uncle after he became wary of molesting me after I sleep walked in my grandparents house to his room. That scared him apparently. A five year old standing at his door in the middle of the night just staring at him, asleep.
Anyway many of your points hit home. The hypervigilence about child abusers, potentially violent men. This is why being taken for a ride by my disordered ex was so devastating. I thought my boundaries were very strong. They weren’t.
MyOwnGirl and TeaLight – thank you so much for sharing more of your histories. I am so pleased that you are rising above the pain of the past.
Thank you Donna, this site has been so important for me in the past 6 months, all the support I’ ve been offfered here has helped me tremendously.
I don’t believe that we give out signals to spaths or we are more vulnerable to their ‘game plan’. Anyone can be their target, depending on the spath’s needs of the moment. Everyone is a penetrable mark.
That does not mean in any way that we are ‘defective’. All real humans have chinks in our armor. The weaknesses leaves all real people, susceptible to their sociopathic blueprint for life.
There are as many different weak spots as there are different people. None of us are immune to all sociopaths nor are any of us a willing target for all sociopaths.
A ‘successful’ sociopath is a patient one. They size up absolutely everyone they come in contact with to see if that person has something they want or need and if that person is easily malleable, after all many spaths don’t want to work hard or even work at all. Additionally, the efficacious spath must always be on alert for someone that that can see them for what they are. All of this takes time, in many cases lots of time. Since the spaths have no life to spend their time living, time spent sizing up a potential target is time well spent. They must be masters of the ‘know when to hold em, know when to fold em’ philosophy of life. It’s not really that hard a life style for the spath, as they never have human feelings about others.
I was not the only victim of the latespath; he was very versatile. Here are 3 of his targets, very different people, from different backgrounds, at different places in their lives.
Target number 1 was mother’s stock broker. He had been in the stock sector for over 30 years and was with this major, international brokerage for around 30 years; having worked himself up to a senior level ‘client’ position without a black mark. The spath met him briefly in 1998 as my mother wouldn’t let the spath stay in the house by himself. The spath started to ‘work on’ the broker in early 2001 and moved in ‘for the kill’ in late 2003 after he felt the broker would never tell neither my mother nor I what the spath was doing. In order to accomplish his goals, the spath had to convince the broker that he actually cared about my mother, that my mother wanted him to control her stock account and that he was very knowledgeable about the stock market. Reality, my mother and the spath had no relationship at all; my mother never let anyone touch her money-even told the broker in 1998 that’it’s my money’ and ‘no one’s else’s name goes on the account’; the spath didn’t have a stock account, never took a financial class or showed any interest in the market. Small price to pay for getting handed 2 million dollars.
Target 2 was ‘M’ the escort. M grew up in different cultural area, different educational background, different religion, different family background, than the spath. She became an escort shortly after 9/11 at age 44 or so. M had 4 children ranging in age from grammar school to 20s. She was close to her parents as well as her estranged husband. By the time the spath met M in March, 2003 he had been an active john for 20 months having had several hundred appointments. M was looking for love, the spath was looking for a long term victim. M sealed her own fate when she cut her trip to the other coast short, to be with him on his birthday, 4 months after meeting him as a john in 2005. To ‘win her over’ he had to change his taste in music, be willing to lower his academic requirements in a ‘friend’, to become knowledgeable in a different religion, be willing to appear to care about her family, and most of all be willing to publicly profess his love for her. What he wanted was being attached to a gal who was ‘famous’ in the world of escorting; someone who would not question the obviously stolen and forged checks he gave her; someone who would put their name on an apartment so he would have some place to go 9 to 5; a gal who would never call me. A lady willing to meet his needs was worth the new mask he had to wear. He not only snagged her, but her entire family; parents, estranged husband and children.
Target 3 was Dr.’S’, the psychoanalyst, well she didn’t start off as a target. He did not make a choice to see a therapist; rather Dr. S was M’s psychologist. The latespath called her to let her know that M died. The psychologist suggested to him that he come to her for bereavement help; AH! By the time he called Dr. S, M had been dead a little over 2 weeks and the spath had received hundreds of posts, emails, and from what I understand, phone calls. He knew that the volume of tributes to his ‘love’ for M, would start to lessen. M was no longer there to feed his ego. Here was a ‘victim’ coming to him; yes, he had to pay her, but less than an escort’s fee. While he never met Dr. S, I am sure that M discussed her sessions with the doctor with the spath, so he had an idea of what to expect. Dr. S had been in practice around 35 years and attached to an educational institute. How does a spath, who never had experience with a psychologist, go about keeping his secret from a well experienced professional? M had seen Dr. S for a long time, so she was aware of the relationship between the spath and M, at least from M’s point of view. M really did love the spath and the spath knew that. Play up the ‘love’ angle was a start. He had that down pat, for not only did he convince M and her family, he convinced 2 escorting communities and his own mother that he loved her. He spent 14 months with Dr. S and she had no idea of the ‘real’ spath. I know, I and my therapist spoke to her.
While 3 very different people, they all had one thing in common – the willingness to keep the spath’s actions secret; the broker because he saw no need to contact his client, and he believed the spath; M because she was an escort and escorts keep secrets, also she was in love with a married man, and she believed the spath; Dr.S, psychologist’s sessions are secret, and she believed the spath.
In order to be truly accomplished, the spath needs the’help’ of and the ability to use, unwitting ‘real’ people as necessary; the ability to morph into how many different people he needs to, a true Chameleon; a silver tongue; nerves of steel; knowledge and time.
I was married to him for 33 years and knew him for 47, and I would not have recognized any of the ‘shells’ the machinating spath could mutate into; neither did his mother. More importantly none of his target recognized the real person the spath was.
I am not sure that that there are more spaths in the world today. Our experiences, left us more attuned to sociopaths. Unfortunately, our antennas sometimes see human imperfections as sociopathic behavior.
Very helpful stories here and I am grateful for the sharing. So many of us were molested….and often my relatives…causes such mental anguish. It does help to share it here, be anonymous, but also to receive kindness, empathy, and validation.
lost everything: I am glad you wrote about how easily a sociopath can fool therapists. Too many therapists think they are above it all and they are not. They can be just as easily fooled as the rest of us. Maybe even more. They are making money by listening to their lies and “believe” they are helping someone. They have great incentives to believe their sociopath clients. It has been sickening to me to me to witness the spath talking about how he lied, fooled, and manipulated his therapists when forced to go to therapy through the VA. A waste of time for everyone involved. Today, I took the spath to handle some business involving his cell phone. I observed him in the store. He was Mr. Personality. Laughing, open to the workers, etc. He looked back me in my car through the window at one point…just seconds after his animated performance for these strangers. His smile was gone. His eyes were vacant. He looked away. I said out loud to myself, “Interesting.” That is how I must deal with him. I observe him like a science project gone awry….”Interesting….”
MyOwnGirl,
The thread that Tea Light was referring to was “Shining A Light on Emotional Rape”.
Your story and the way you’ve been able to heal,is just amazing and inspiring!
The part about drawing pictures~I did that too.But my mom never knew until just before I got married.