I have heard it suggested that there may be those who “attract” psychopaths. It does not matter what the relationship. Some feel that there are people who are simply prone to involvement with individuals with psychopathic features. Is this true? Maybe. Maybe not.
Why do they feel this way?
Talk to victims. There are many who have been involved with psychopaths who feel that they are “everywhere.” The same story keeps happening over and over. It’s like Ground Hog Day or Fifty First Dates. Perhaps these victims have had several romantic experiences with psychopaths. Perhaps they feel many of their family members are psychopaths. Others report experiencing a variety of different encounters in various areas of life.
On the surface, it may seem like an easy conclusion to come to. I, on the other hand, believe that we have not even begun to understand just how complicated an issue this really is, which may be influenced by many different factors. Here are some of my thoughts.
A psychopath “behind every bush?”
Among the general population, there are not “psychopaths behind every bush.” However, psychopathy does occur along a continuum. It is a spectrum disorder of sorts. In other words, one person may exhibit only a few traits of psychopathy. Another may exhibit some or all.
Therefore, the numbers of troubling individuals may actually be higher than once suspected. If we only count those who are affected by the disorder as those who fit the criterion for a clinical diagnosis, we are leaving many troubling individuals out of the statistical equation. That does not mean, however, that they are not present in our lives, wreaking havoc.
What do we do about all of the sub-clinical folks who may be just as troubling and dangerous as those amongst the prison population or those who have created enough of a stir to warrant in-depth assessments? We may need to take another look at how we decide who is “psychopathic enough” to gain our attention, as many routinely “fly under the radar.”
Once we know about psychopathy and the other Cluster B disorders, we may begin to recognize those with the disorders or a number of their features.
How is psychopathy assessed and why do we care?
To briefly explain, one of the instruments available for measuring psychopathy is the PCL-R, which was developed by Dr. Robert Hare. Only trained mental health professionals are to diagnose using this tool. However, if we look at the checklist items, we are able to decide for ourselves if we know individuals who exhibit the various behaviors. If these occur frequently and/or consistently, over time, we may know someone with psychopathy.
With this measure, professional evaluators are able to assign a score ranging from 0 to 40. Time is beginning to show that this assessment is more successful among some groups of offenders than others.
Non-psychopathic individuals tend to have scores of about a 4 or 5 on the PCL-R. Survival dictates that we must all possess a small number of traits which allow us to act in our own best interests. However, do not be confused. Higher scores likely do not correlate with what is being argued may be adaptive behavior.
The motivations of non-psychopaths are very different from those of psychopaths or those with elevated features. Disorder and adaptation are two different things.
Understanding the psychopathy “numbers game” is helpful so that we do not become too attached to a score, accepting it as the only thing that matters.
Does the number matter?
A score of 30 has been established as the cut score for psychopathy, acknowledging a score of 20 as high, and of possible potential concern, but still sub-clinical. But what about those with scores of 15 or 18? Not exactly psychopathic, but not “normal.” We must acknowledge that we need to look at the facts of cases involving these individuals collaterally. These individuals may be of great concern as well. Ask anyone who has dealt with them.
It is also worth noting that how the score was attained may be of importance.
The real world
So, even if they are not “behind every bush,” understanding the disorder and how these features tend to present should be of great importance to the general population. The chances are good that most of us will be at least superficially involved at some point.
The extent of our involvement may vary, depending on many outside variables. However, I do not think it is safe to suggest that there may be some who “attract” psychopaths.
Granted, we may need to examine some of our vulnerabilities, train ourselves not to ignore red flags, and control some of our behaviors and responses, but we should not internalize our involvement too much and no one should lay blame on anyone for their involvement.
I have said it before, and I will say it again; we did not choose these people. We chose the persona they pitched us.
What about the frequency among family members?
Among families, however, the “psychopaths everywhere” concept may be somewhat different. Science continues to examine whether psychopathy is genetic or environmental. While it seems that both may play a role, research strongly supports that a genetic component exists.
As a result, it is possible that there are many psychopathic individuals in a particular family. This does not mean that everyone will be afflicted, but it may mean that there is an over representation of the disorder in a blood line.
Therefore, it is likely that a non-psychopathic family member may feel “surrounded” by psychopaths. Simply put, the numbers may be far greater than in a family without a predisposition for the condition. It can be a difficult situation to navigate regardless of the causes.
In the end
Ultimately, it does not matter if psychopaths are “everywhere” or not. To those involved, even if they are only “somewhere,” the problems tend to be significant. Whether we are simply more in tune to human behavior, we “attract” them, or we live among more than others due to genetics or rearing tendencies, without an understanding, they can be the most trying people we know.
They have the potential to create problems in our homes, at work, or in our own backyards. The good is that once we understand their behavior patterns, we can better help ourselves and those we love.
We all AGREE and have “EXPLICITLY” stated “MANY TIMES” and with “WITH EMPHASIS” that not EVERYONE in ANY culture has the same personality/character.
Sarah, I’m with you there girl. High five. On the grey rocking I usually do pretty well with that one. I eventually figured out that engaging her was not going to change her in any way and typically will be used to reinforce her subtle slanderings, so I usually swallow it, internalize it, but not with everything. I pick my battles, usually. Sometimes I’m playing my guitar and I really start feeling it and start pouring myself into it( I’m not that great, but entertain myself ) and I realize I don’t look as lethargic and damaged as I usually do. She doesn’t miss anything, so I’m aware that if I show too much strength there will be repercussions. Yesterday I think it was, she realized she had not locked the back door and was commenting on it when I informed her that she has forgotten several times lately to lock the front door. All this is extremely out of character for her as she is usually on top of all these things. Of course the idea that She had made a mistake, let alone several was unacceptable, and she began her usual assault as she always does on Any idea that she could be wrong or off in any way shape or form. I very calmly, and slightly condescendingly said – ” Well, I guess the door must have magically closed itself. Very strange. ” I just sort of rose above anything she said and rather aloofly held my resolve. I didn’t dare make eye contact. I can tell you she was ticked off. She mumbled something under her breath as she left the room. It felt good to stand my ground , but I suspect I’ll probably pay for my insurrection. I try to stay in character as much as I can around her. Be the rock, the grey one.
4Light: Did you mean to address your last statement to Sarah or to me? Since your previous comment to me was supportive of multi-culturalism and humor, I think you meant to address your last one to me.
Sarah: Read through your own posts and the post you agreed with towards the beginning of this thread. You agreed in writing that entire cultures were purely psychopathic. I disagreed with that statement you repeated from another poster. You agreed with that poster’s slam at politically correct (IE: Any policy to correct segregation of all cultures)multiculturalism. It is not possible to agree with every post here after that post and you have ended up slamming politically correct multiculturalism, comparing the human race to dogs and plants, etc., and then writing that you agree with the opposite…what I wrote. The two belief systems are the opposite of each other. Read what you posted.
The subject of the article is “Psychopaths Everywhere?” and someone made it into a slam at PC multiculturalism which is negative and very polarizing. You agreed with the slam even quoting from that post. I disagreed with that slam and wanted to make that clear once I realized that the possibility of inaccurate statistics wasn’t the only thing in that post and you posted a comment to me thanking me for “calling it like it is.” I do call it what it is is, but there was another message thrown in there with which I didn’t agree.
If you agree that the negative PC multiculturalism statement is bigoted and does not fit with reality, you might want to edit your own specifically worded agreement with it. If you agree that being PC and that multiculturalism has nothing to do with the sociopath population, then you might want to edit your written posts. I think you are arguing for and against bigoted beliefs at the same time…if you look back through your posts.
If not, your posts are very crazy making as hatred of politically correct multi-culturalism, comparing multiculturalism to animals and then bringing up cannibals all have nothing to do with this article or the mainstream reality of 99.9% of our world. Do you agree with what you and another person wrote or do you agree with what I wrote? Or do you have beliefs that fit in between?
Yes Fight most of my post was in response to yours, but just wanted to give credence to the adjusted course being more on track with our fellow poster. Baby steps. Sometimes we need to soak in the sauce a bit longer to get the right flavor.
Here are the descriptions of symptoms of Hypervigilance (which I think I have spelled incorrectly several times):
– Feeling vulnerable, fearful of lots of people, places, or things,and unable to feel calm in safe places.
– Fear of repetition.
– Anticipating disaster everywhere, such as needing to sit in a corner of the room with one’s back to the wall while looking for exits or places to hide. Always fearful of an unknown future disaster or danger. Expecting the worst.
– Rapid scanning, looking over one’s shoulder.
– Keeping a weapon, or several weapons.
– Being overprotective or overcontrolling of loved ones.
– Exaggerated startle response.
– Physical symptoms may include:
Elevation of certain stress hormones in the blood
Elevated heart rate
Elevated blood pressure
Hyperventilation
Tight chest or stomach
Jaw clenching
Numbness
Light-headedness
Tingling, cold, or sweaty hands
Thanks fight!
I had many of those symptoms…and I still can’t get the vision of myself in my gynecologist’s office,out of my head!I don’t know how often he’s seen something like that,but being a doctor,a professional,he handled it compassionately,for which I’m so thankful!
I think I have posted about that visit before.But,unknown to me gyns are trained to recognize abused women.Not only that,but there are questions pertaining to abuse,in the paperwork.I nearly walked out of his office that day!Thankfully,I did stay,but I had an anxiety attack while waiting for him to come into the room.Darn those paper sheets!When he saw me,I probably looked like a trapped wild animal,lol! 🙂
Hi Blossom: I think a lot of people go through things in doctor’s offices and it is good when you have a good one. One person I know had an attack while they were drawing blood and she pulled the needle out and had an attack. Luckily, the doctor came in and took her out to rest. I am glad you had a good doctor. Having a gynecological check up is already such a vulnerable feeling.
I have such bad PTSD from many different traumas that I have to be hypervigilant about being too hypervigilant!
Hi 4light2shine,
What is “grey rocking”?
fight,
Years ago,when I was about to have a child and was being shown the delivery room;after noting the medical equipment and feeling a little nervous,I looked out the back entrance~down the stairs to the tree in the court.I was told a true story of how a young woman in labor,upon feeling the pains become intense,ran down the stairs,down to that tree!I had forgotten that story until now.Doctors must have alot of stories that they tell each other! 🙂
It’s terrible when one has to try to calm themselves so they don’t startle too much!I know the feeling!
Wow! I don’t have children. I had Endometriosis from a young age. It runs in my family. My mother had it about 10 years after her last child. She told me the pain of Endometriosis was like the pain of childbirth. I would get such pain, I would nearly faint. I couldn’t imagine being able to run to a tree in that kind of pain. That’s more proof of what adrenaline can do!
fight,
My sister has endometriosis,so I’ve heard the pain is terrible!Sorry to hear you’ve had to cope with it.I couldn’t imagine running to a tree when in pain either,lol!
Thank you, Blossom. I had a hysterectomy at 31 because I couldn’t take it any more. I had already had one major surgery on it at age 24 and told I’d have no kids. Luckily, I didn’t really want kids, so that was not as upsetting as it can be for some young women. Now, I just have a lot of scar tissue and some organs that are stuck together from the endometrial tissue I had so much of it. I just had a lung x-ray today at my new allergist because I could just tell I had something strange going on for a while now. She said it looked like my diaphragm was stuck to one lung. She was sending it to a radiologist. But, there isn’t anything to do about it. It just is.
I know there are a few more treatments for it than there were when I had it. Believe it or not, my Mom finally figured out that just taking simple aspirin the minute the pain started could avert the most intense pain. It was because of the inflammation. I had constant pain in some of the worst areas where there were implants and organs and my colon, etc. were messed up. But, on the days when I could feel it begin to hurt and the pain beginning to spread, an aspirin really helped more than you would think.
I feel for your sister. There used to be an Endometriosis Newsletter I subscribed to that was also very helpful to me at that time.
I found “grey rocking” . . good idea!
Linda, Thank you for doing this important work here. It’s very helpful for those that are impacted by these creatures.
First – about me – I’m the youngest 4th child of a P and my mother his co-conspirator – a 100% partner. I guess I’m the target. To figure this all out so late in life is sad.
I have never spent time in therapy. Everything I read made it seem as if the problem was me. That I needed to ‘work’ on me to deal with ‘them’. I always knew our family was off. I could find no examples of any healthy dynamics in our family – Only millions of examples of dangerous cruel dysfunction. I also saw the results with my siblings – who with 2 of them would have long periods of absence in our family. But then there was the ‘golden child’ – who never left – who would even stay at their house when they were gone. My P-daddy’s buddy – always a good soldier.
So – now I have 1,000,000% clarity. With that clarity comes 2 specific understandings.
1) The characteristics of the P are misguided when they use behaviors to determine the character. I believe that first the P is born without empathic capabilities and then their upbringing takes it from there. If they are raised with basically law abiding, responsible, kind, “normal” people, they will look more “normal” – they will not be so inclined to commit crimes. They will succeed and probably thrive without that. (That’s my Dad – EVERYBODY LOVES him) But there are also the ones that have other genetics that are violent, no matter how they are raised. That’s another problem. And of course if they grow up lacking in a more normal societal structure, maybe surrounded by crime, or drug abuse, etc. They will move in that direction. We are just animals. Learning from our environments even before we learn to speak.
2) I am always wondering why it seems that I keep ending up with P friends. Intimate friends. I do blame myself, and then I excuse myself. So here it is. Are they everywhere? yes, for me they are.
As humans we are constantly, instinctively, seeking a connection with other humans. Everywhere we go, at work, at the store, in school, with family, parties, bars, in waiting rooms. Everywhere.
And we CHOOSE people.. and .. they CHOOSE us.. we make connections. Sadly, I choose what I am most familiar with, what I am most comfortable with. Someone else on here said, it just feels right. And, they (the P’s) choose me. You see, I have learned how to schmooze them. Even though I was the target, it was very subtle. He rarely was specifically mean to me. Au contraire. His method was basically displaying kind behaviors and actions towards ‘others’ to me – the types of kindness that he would not give me. NEVER
So, throughout my life, I learned to ‘take it’. And keep plugging along. Keep trying. Keep proving that I was worthy. Worthy of parental love. At least parental acceptance.
But man, he hated me. So, I also learned to be comfortable with hate. Animosity. I can take it. I’m strong. (yea, right.. dying inside)
So, I say yes, we are active players. We run across them, then romance them and then keep them. Keep trying to get what we think we can get.. even though it’s impossible. We bring them into our lives. I don’t believe they are everywhere – I believe I gravitate to them. (I even set it up with my neighbor to rent the unit next door to me to my ‘best friend’. ug.. of course now the mask came off of him – i confronted him – and now i’m a target again .. yuck – my safe space is compromised)
Also, an important feature of the P is once they see they can’t manipulate you.. omg.. how they will destroy you. So, I also believe that when they know you see them – and this is on a very instinctive level – it’s like micro-expressions (see Paul Ekman) They are on high alert. You now become a target – so now you really see them.
It just feels like they are everywhere. But they are not easy to see. The ones I have chosen recently are the ones everyone says.. oh she’s so sweet, he’s so nice… Wolves in sheeps clothing…
Now, my goal is to find a way to be discerning. To chose ‘real’ people for friends. It’s a new game now.
MLK 2013: Thank you for sharing your story. It’s very familiar and you make some great points here. I could especially relate to “choosing” what we “are familiar with” over and over. I hope to educate myself enough to spot them and choose a goodness I am unfamiliar with. I hope you will, too!
Donna has devoted her life to making sure people like us can support each other and stay informed. I read her story a couple of days ago and she was put through the ringer and still had the guts to tell others about it and write books and start this website.