Research into sociopathy/psychopathy has made a great deal of progress over the last 30 years. Even so, there is much that research does not address. For example, sociopaths are described as callous, lacking in empathy and without remorse for their hurtful actions. These sterile descriptors always fall short of really conveying the evil of the disordered.
A good 6 months before the Madoff story broke, I began a project to connect with the family members of professional con artists. The purpose of this project is to document the within family behavior of con artists and to link that “profession” to psychopathic personality traits. I have had good success connecting with family members and the exchange of information has been healing all around.
One con artist is in prison for affinity fraud- the use of a church, or other social connection to perpetrate fraud. This man was good at pretending to be a great “Christian” and used his church affiliation to swindle people. There is no doubt he is highly psychopathic as this is his second prison term and the descriptions given by his ex-wife are that of a classic sociopath.
Like many con artists, this man also has children. One of his daughters is the same age (within a couple of weeks) as my eldest daughter; she just turned 18. I spoke with this young lady with the permission of her mother and have had an ongoing dialogue with her. She wanted to talk to me because she was taking psychology in high school and had figured out on her own that her father is a sociopath.
This young lady is such a gem, so I’ll call her Gem here. She is smart, lovely and kind-hearted. In her own way she has been coming to grips with the reality that her father is incapable of love. He wasn’t physically violent but he has been callous, lacking in empathy and emotionally abusive toward everyone in the family. There I go with the adjectives that describe a sociopath.
Researchers are puzzled by the phenomenon of empathy in sociopaths. Although sociopaths seem to know all too well what others are thinking and feeling, they don’t respond in a normal way to what they know. Instead, they use their knowledge of others to manipulate. When the manipulation is perpetrated on a child or vulnerable teen/ young adult it is especially evil.
Gem shared with me the birthday communication she received from her imprisoned father. With her permission, I share it with you. She and I both hope this example will help other family members heal and move on. When I read the card, I was outraged and knew immediately the effect it had on my young friend. Without a lengthy explanation, a person ignorant of sociopaths would never “get it” regarding the manipulation I saw as blatant manipulation. Here is what the card said:
” My sweet baby girl, I miss you and love you very much. Happy 18th birthday. It seems like yesterday I held this little tiny baby with the biggest most beautiful eyes. I have so many great memories of you, handfuls of dog food, pretty little dresses. You played soccer but hated it. You danced and laughed your way into everyone’s heart. You are all a father could ever ask for in a daughter. I pray for you every day. May you find the best in life as you begin your adult life. I hope your dreams come true. You’re wonderful, beautiful, and always will be my little girl. God bless you.
Love Dad”
OK an ignorant person reading this would say, “What a sweet, nice card, to get from a father.” This communication might also be cited as an example of how hard it is for the kids of the imprisoned to be separated from their loving parents who made, “mistakes in life.”
A person who really knows sociopaths would react with outrage as I did. I know that just a few short months before this card, the father in question stole money from his ex-wife. Money she was using to take care of Gem, his little girl. Furthermore, all during Gem’s childhood he was conning people including family members out of their money. He never had any real connection to Gem. She never felt he loved or wanted her. This card in my view was pure evil, why? because it preyed upon this beautiful Gem, a young lady who always wished for a real father.
When she sent me what her father had written, I responded, “I am speechless over that card, it must represent everything you wish he would have said to you your whole life. I hope you keep it and believe in your heart, mind and soul that this is what YOU DESERVE always and forever from your parents and your boyfriend/future husband.”
Here is what Gem said in response to my interpretation, “it did just trigger something in me that just made me cry. I couldn’t help but break down and cry after reading that because I HAVE always wanted to hear that from a father-figure but now… it’s too late.”
This con artist, bored in prison is writing cards, hoping for some entertaining responses, while his family is working to heal, make sense of it all, and move on. The words of the card, if left unchecked by reality, delay the moving on that is so important. Gem is off to college next fall and is moving on to a great life that she will make for herself.
It is only my personal knowledge of sociopaths and how they operate that enabled the correct interpretation of the birthday card. Please feel free to share your own examples of a sociopath’s manipulation of your emotions. Particularly useful are examples of a sociopath’s use of words that are superficially appropriate, but very inappropriate given the specific circumstances.
NewLife08
your story really got me..I could feel your pain and I too have been there too…with all the questions..what happened and whys??? I wasnt married to mine..but we had a cjhild together…and i realize thatswhen it started…anything that took away from him…he would be around..tinker about…wash the car…play in the garage…but he never was A PART of us…he became angry when my son took away from him..it was sad…but its reality..evderyday I am a bit closer as accepting that it is what it is…is the hardest but the most free feeling I have felt in a long time!!
Hang in there!!
newlife, there is also another factor in this situation, which is the triangulation that you create in his relationship with the new woman. I saw this with my ex.
When he was threatened by something and I was there to be on his side, he was very loving and attentive. Then I was the apple of his eye. When the threat was gone, so was the love and attention.
The more threatened he is with what’s going on with you, the more dependent he is going to be on her as his “source.” And I think that’s what you’re seeing. If the kids were willing to agree with him about what a terrible person you are, they’d get lots of attention from him too. But if they don’t, then they get clumped up with you as part of his problem.
These people have childish emotional systems, and no subtlety except in their maneuvering to get what they want.
As far as the life insurance policy goes, I think it means exactly what you think it means. It gives him a monetary reason to care whether you live or die. And I think it’s evidence of what’s going on in his mind right now. I’d regard it as a warning, and consider becoming more conscious of your personal security.
I understand why you’re upset. And hurt. But at some point, you have to stop asking yourself how a human being could behave this way, and realize that you’re just dealing with a bad person. He’s done everything possible to loot your shared assets and hide what he was. He has exploited you and dumped you. There is not the slightest evidence that he intends to be fair or helpful or acknowledge anything that he got from you.
In other words, he is the enemy. If you understand that, it may make it simpler for you, and may relieve you from this vulnerability to fresh pain on a daily basis. Or from any idea that you can expect fairness, or need to consider it in your own dealings with him.
I really understand how you feel, but at least part of it is your mind trying to make sense of this. If you get to the point where you understand that he not only doesn’t care you but is doing everything possible to continue screwing you and hopefully profit from any bad luck that befalls you (as in the life insurance policy), it may help you stop feeling anything about him except a determination to win.
One a step by step basis, you’re doing great. But you are still suffering. Sometimes life sends us big challenges. If you knew you were about to take a trip through the jungle with hungry lions around, you wouldn’t be inclined to get your feelings hurt about the lion’s behavior or think “why do they do that?” You’d travel with guards, guns, etc., and figure that it was your job to take care of yourself. (And maybe if one of those lions insisted on attacking your camp, to bring home a lion skin.) This is no different.
There is a lot of discussion on LoveFraud about how sociopaths get a thrill out of seeing us suffer. It’s part of their need to win and validate their own superiority. But there is more to it than that, if we’re involved in a battle for resources. While we’re feeling, they’re thinking. To the extent that they can keep us mired in feelings — positive or negative — they can keep us focused on the wrong thing (usually relationship issues), while they scheme and take actions against our interests.
So this is something you might think about whenever you feel tempted to suffer over his behavior or the behavior of anyone who is arguably a sociopath by proxy, representing his interests. (And that can be a decision you make on a moment by moment basis, with anyone, including your own family. It doesn’t mean that anyone is permanently a sociopath by proxy, but it means that while it’s happening, you trust your own instincts on this and refuse to participate.) The only person who profits from you being upset is him, until you transform those feelings into righteous anger and a determination to survive and win.
Namaste.
Kathy
So this is something else you might keep in mind.
WOW…Kathy you hit it so eloquntly and so precise!!
You are so right…he loved and adored me while he was battling his wife..when I saw tru his crap..he went back to her ad then battled me rearding child support an adoed his wife…since then the wife and I became friends which threatened him even more..I cut off communication with her just the other day..as it was drawing me back into the energy with him and I cant have that happen…we are going to court in a week regarding child support in the meantime I have cut off his mother and himself as well…he has not been concerned about his son at all and I will not allow him to use him as a pawn or a posession..he will have to fight for his rights as he lost them when he walked out and abndoned him not once but twice now!
Thanks for sharing..it really helped to read that this morning!!
Good, newlife, I’m glad.
Someone on another thread wrote about the benefits of becoming indifferent. That’s fine, if they are totally out of our lives and no longer a threat. It’s a form of forgetting.
But that’s not where you are. You are in the trenches right now, fighting for what you’ll have to work with, in creating your new life. (And if I never mentioned, I’ve always loved your name, because it is so forward-looking.)
None of this is about fair anymore, except however the legal system views it. (Fair went out the window the day you met him.) It is all about winning for you and your kids.
From my perspective, the closest thing to fair you could get right now is to totally clean him out and leave him destitute. That may sound harsh, but from what you’ve said, he has probably squandered and stolen more of your joint assets than anyone will ever find now. What is left should be yours and, even so, would be a net loss for you.
If you can’t convince the legal system to give you everything he has, that’s a different issue. You and your lawyer can only do what you can do. But in your own mind, I wouldn’t give him an inch.
No question he’ll whine to the kids and anyone else he can find about what a terrible person you are. Let him. The kids know who’s watching out for them. And anyone else who doesn’t get it is acting as his dupe (knowingly or unknowingly), and not worth arguing with. (This is a perfect occasion to roll your eyes and say, “Yeah right” or compliment your ex on how well he does the pathetic act, before you walk away or change the subject.)
If you haven’t started thinking in terms of what you deserve — not emotionally from him, because that’s like thinking you deserve friendly conversation from the hungry lion — but in terms of material payback, you might spend some time making a list. Just for your own benefit. It might help you get clear about all this.
You deserve more than you’ll ever get out of this guy. But that just means that he’s in your debt. Not that you deserve less, because he’s a loser.
I think I was the one who counseled “indifference” (or at least PRETENDING TO BE) or “the potted plant” treatment.
In order to NOT GIVE THEM SUPPLY, act like you do NOT even see what they are doing. jDon’t even NOTICE their existence. If he shows up naked with her at a family reunion, or at the PTA meeting, you act like you don’t even NOTICE he is there. His whole thing is to BE NOTICED and to PISS YOU OFF by what he is doing. He WINS when you show that you NOTICED and are PITHED OFF.
This treatment is my own personal NO CONTACT when you are NOT able to avoid them, or when they are NOT out of your life. I developed this back years ago when i did not even know what a P was. A GF of mine was dating a P and he was really rude to me, even did some “dirty tricks” to me, and so I took the tactic that when I was at her house and he came over, I PRETENDED HE WAS INVISIBLE—I gav ehim no more notice than I would have one of her potted plants.
I didn’t give him any verbal indication or body language indication that I could see or hear him. IT DROVE HIM BNONKERS and he would stand and scream in my face, and it was difficult, but I PRETENDED LIKE HE WAS NOT THERE. Went on with whatever I was doing, continued my conversation even if he was shouting so loudly that I could not be heard. I swear this guy was jumping up and down like a mad banty rooster because he was so frustrated that no matter what he said or did, I ignored him completely!
We all pretty well know and acknowledge that ATTENTION and WINNING (even if it is by pithing us off) is the THING THEY DESIRE MOST. If we can DEPRIVE them of attention, even if we can’t completely NC them by keeping away from them, we can STILL treat them like they don’t exist, that they are NOT IMPORTANT TO US, that we just DON’T GIVE A BIG RAT’S BEHIND what jthey do. As long as we show them we care by showing we are PITHED OFF—they WIN.
Actually, Oxy, it was a new person called questionmark1, who posted on my last article on emotional independence. He said that he’d reached the “nirvana of indifference.”
But as you say, recognizing that someone is just a player and refusing to play their game, is a great way to dispatch of cruising sharks.
But when we’re in hand-to-hand combat, we’re in the game, whether we like it or not. And chances are we’ve already taken some losses. So it’s difficult to to ignore them.
At that point, it just helps to realize that we’re dealing with something that does not have our best interests in mind. And just forget all our training in being nice, being fair, and caring about anyone else’s wellbeing. We need to pull out the stops to save ourselves and recover what’s ours.
Even that kind of effort isn’t guaranteed to completely balance the scales. Some losses are just lost. But at least we know we focused on the right thing and did our best for ourselves.
We have every right to be angry about what happened to us, every right to take care of ourselves, especially in dealing with people who’s only objective is to use us and walk away with our resources.
My comments about IGNORING THEM or the potted plant tactic (and it was on another thread I think CRS) is not the same as “nirvana of indifference.” Reaching that level when you are ENGAGED IN BATTLE, I think is almost impossible, I know it woujld be for ME! I am in some ways reaching that “nirvana” of indifference in some of the long ago resolved traumas, like my X-BF P, and am pretty close to it with others of the Ps I have jousted with, but APPARENTLY IGNORING THEM even when you are VERY ENGAGED, IS simply a TACTIC to deprive them of N-supply in the immediate NOW.
Ie when they rage at you, pretend you don’t hear them. Don’t give them the “satisfaction” of reacting to them. When they show up at a function with the new GF, just pretend you don’t see them, rather than rush headlong out the door crying.
In other words, don’t let them provoke you into playing their GAMEs, because there is NO way you can “win” against them. The only thing is that THEY get the satisfaction of saying “Boy, did I get her goat, did you see how she started crying when we showed up at the kid’s birthday party when she wasn’t expecting us?”
Years ago, my GF finally dumped her P, but his point in being nasty to me was to keep me from coming to her house. He was trying desperately to ISOLATE HER FROM HER FRIENDS. It worked with many of them, but NOT WITH ME. Yet, I did not “engage” with him in a cussing fight, or a shouting match, but appeared as if I didn’t even notice him. He knew I could see him, hear him, but it was so FRUSTRATING to him that I would NOT respond that he blew his cool. (BTW I was NOT afraid of this man, so there are times it might be best not to do anything to aggravate them into violence!)
In Dr. Eric Berne’s book “Games People Play” which details the Victim-Persecutor-Rescuer triangle of “musical chairs” where the games START and FINISH, the psychopath is a MASTER of throwing out LUREs to suck you into one of the games where they start out as the persecutor, and you the victim, then turn it around where YOU ARE THE BAD GUY PERSECUTOR AND THEY ARE THE POOR VICTIM.
They pull in the people from their family, in New Life’s case, his family, to then become persecutors of her and her children for DARING TO OBJECT to him bringing his FLOOZY to the party—he then turns it around on to his 10 yr old son that the REASON he brought her was because the son refused to go with him, so now the SON is the “bad guy” because he wouldn’t go with the dad and the DAD HAD TO TAKE THE FLOOZY! AND ROUND AND ROUND WE GO, AND WERE IT STOPS????? It stops when NO ONE NOTICES WHAT HE DOES (or at least APPEARS TO NOTICE) or cares. It doesn’t mean that Newlife appproves of his being with the floozy in front of the kids, but he OBVIOUSLY ISN’T GOING TO STOP NO MATTER WHAT SHE DOES—or th ekids do. HE IS ENJOYING hurting NewLife AND her children. He gets a “gamey pay off” when they become upset.
I agree, it doesn’t serve newlife to become upset at this point. She has bigger fish to fry. Like getting her various legal dramas to come out well for her and her kids.
That was what was so powerful about Erin Brockavitch’s approach. To the extent that she thought about her ex, he was an adversary she was fighting for control of certain resources. Custody of the children. Financial assets. She was past being disappointed in him or being hurt by him in any romantic sense. Facing up to what we’re dealing with is a huge step forward in taking our lives back.
And fortunately there is a lot about sociopaths that is fairly predictable, if we understand what motivates them. And if we can anticipate their behavior, especially in court, there is a lot we can do to counteract it.
OXY , Dear KAthy,
Your words are a soothing salve for me today. I have spent the last two days in too much distress over this. Counseling is Thursday and I think I need to address my feelings of shame. I was always so happy to be part of a big family and I know I had the respect of many of his extended family. They would always compliment my MIL on how I was a good wife and took such care for my husband and kids.
Somehow I think they will think less of me because I obviously failed at my marriage. He is such the favorite of everyone , I wonder if they would for a moment question his actions. If they will ask “What the heck happened?” or does anyone really care at the end of the day. For such a big family, only ONE cousins wife has kept in touch – and she is an honorable woman – you would admire her. She will not allow him in her home with his GF and she will not go to his new BBQUE. She rejects everything he has done to me and the kids. Not that people don’t divorce – but all the damage he has done to one so good to him.
I don’t know why I feel I need the validation of others not thinking this was me – my fault – that he is with someone better now. MAybe it is damage done from never feeling valued by him and the contempt he shows now more overtly.
It is utterly amazing that yes, as you say, it is true while I battled with him against his ex-wife – who everyone labeled as crazy – he loved me dearly for having his back and doing the paperwork – caring for his kids, entertaining them and basically having the whole responsibility for them because he worked. Then , as life became more routine and predictable, it was like he was bored and angry he was bored. Oh, he would come home to a meal, want to be together, sex- all the right moves for intimacy. But when I asked for help so we could get chores done and both relax – well he much preferred to lay on the couch or be on the phone and simply wait for me to get done. And then by the time I was done -I was too tired for anything but sleep most nights.
After the kids, it just got worse. And maybe it is my guilt for the times I withdrew and didn’t respond or the times I would tell him on the phone I couldn’t wait to see him – and by the time I got home I was so tired. At times I was too aware of making dinner and cleaning up – instead of just giving him the attention and sex he wanted. But I resented too – even just jumping into bed but having to get up and still cook or clean up afterwards.
It’s been a long time but I don’t remember coming home and him saying we’ll just get pizza – or I love you – missed you – it was sometimes just – I don’t know how to say it – but almost too much focus on the sex and not on just a relaxing evening.
And if I tried to talk about it – he was just defensive.
I know from Steve that husband really is an N/S but yet I still have trouble accepting it -is that it?
I’ve never had a healthy love relationship in my whole life – not even one that just didn’t work out.
So sometimes I question my part in the play.
I do know that when I was ready to fight for my marriage and myself- I did everything I could to convey my love -but he had left the relationship long ago. As you may say – he was never in it.
I know that his behaviors did not convey love and he had no intention of changing – even though I think he intended to further enjoy the benefits of our relationship.
Does anyone ever have enough emotional leverage to work through a marriage with an N ?
And yes, I have come to learn he gets off on my pain, displeasure, fruatration and anger. He actually laughs when he knows he has gotten me upset.
Ok – I am rambling……………….
Thanks so much …keep it coming please……..these mile markers can be a tough test……God only knows what is next.
God Bless ……..
I want to add that I am determined to bring him to his knees financially – he has stolen way too much for himself and now his new business….Yes I will have his B###s in a jar if I can.
And I will not allow anymore visitation than necessary – he is irresponsible!!!
I will not let him break me and Lord knows he is trying….I just wish I knew how to turn the tables on him and not put myself at risk.
I will have no mercy on him…………..as he has none for me or our children.
One of hislatest quotes ” My God, T. You are so naieve.
What makes you believe that just because I still wanted to have sex with you before i left – that it had anything to do with wanting to be MARRIED to you !!”
Even weeks before I gave him the ultimatum to get help, be a husband or just go – I still loved him – but refused sex because it wasn’t enough anymore. I was feeling used – and I was right.