By | August 13, 2011 50 Comments

RESOURCE PERSPECTIVES: Why psychopaths feel the need to destroy us after the relationship is over

Editor’s note: Resource Perspectives features articles written by members of Lovefraud’s Professional Resources Guide.

Sarah Strudwick, based in the UK, is author of Dark Souls—Healing and recovering from toxic relationships.

Dark Soul as a destroyer

By Sarah Strudwick

Sarah Strudwick profile in the Lovefraud Professional Resources Guide

Psychopaths are known for their lack of fear, but at the same time they often have other associated personality disorders along side, such as malignant narcissism. Deep down they have a sense of self-hatred and loathing, which is why they feel the need to have a constant fix of kind loving, empathic individuals that they can then slowly pull down to their own level. It’s a bit like the analogy I put in my book, Dark Souls, where they take a helpless spider and pull the legs off one by one—just to see what happens. Why do they do it? Because they can.

So why does the Dark Soul or psychopath feel the need to destroy their victims when the relationship is well and truly over?

Many targets complain that well after the relationship ends they are stalked by the psychopath, or they continue to bombard them with emails and spam. Sometimes they will try and befriend you on Facebook, or constantly monitor what you are doing by stalking you. Even when you have moved on with your life, recovering from financial hardship, emotional stress and so on, the psychopathic personality is not happy. With their own deep sense of self-hatred, they will often feel jealous, and may be vindictive by sending you viruses on your PC or other inconveniences. It’s their way of saying, “You think you have moved on, but I will be there in the background constantly monitoring you.”

It’s also their way of bringing you down to their disgustingly low level. On a conscious level, they know exactly what they are doing and want a reaction. They hope you will hate them as much as they hate themselves. Even if you have no evidence with them they want to continue contact, and being extremely narcissistic, it’s all about getting attention, any kind of attention. What better way to get your attention than, for example, to hack your computer or send you vile pictures on your computer? What better way for them to project their vile, angry, unowned thoughts and feelings back onto their victim, so that they do not have to own them?

Psychopaths are notorious for using sneaky underhanded tactics when it comes to playing dirty, whether it is getting the authorities or lawyers on their side, or other members of the family. They will always find a way to turn the tables back onto their victims and say they did nothing, creating crazymaking behaviour. If and when the victim finally has had enough and lashes back, the Dark Soul can then say, “See I told you she/he was crazy – look what she did!”

The worst thing you can do to a Dark Soul is be indifferent to them. Since causing a reaction is their game, this creates a distinct kind of “does not compute” interference with their brain chemistry. It’s almost as if they cannot understand why no one would react to their silly games. If you can, imagine a robot about to explode. This is the reaction that indifference causes to the psychopath.

They may be thinking to themselves, “I hacked into their computer today, why didn’t they do anything?” “I sent them those disgusting pictures via email, but why didn’t they respond or react?”

Because the psychopath is so sneaky, and makes sure to do everything in a way that you know they are doing it but they cannot be caught, it’s a fine line between being indifferent to them and enabling them. They end up feeling so omnipotent, they think they can actually get away with anything.

Those who have malignant narcissism and psychopathy, or sociopathic traits or both, do understand the concepts of the law and how they will only go so far. After all, it would an inconvenience for them to end up in prison.

To some degree, let them be the destroyer, but keep evidence along the way, so long as it’s not causing you physical or emotional harm.  However, when things get out of hand, let them know in no uncertain terms what evidence you have on them, because at the end of the day all they are doing is digging themselves an even bigger grave to put themselves in. Having said that, it’s not as if they need one, because they died a long time ago.

When you have finally had enough of their stupid games, make it very clear that you have been careful enough to have collected evidence on them and give them the shovel. Trust that like all good sociopaths, they will get caught eventually from their own stupidity, and will end up digging their own graves.

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Ox Drover

Sarah, great article and so true, they do want REVENGE once the relation-shit is over, and for what it’s worth, research has shown that thinking about revenge lights up the “pleasure centers” of the brain….just thinking about it….so I am fairly sure that they get a chemical reward inside their brain for the thinking about and acting on the REVENGE motive….

While many of them do just “play games” there are those that are genuinely dangerous. The article Donna put up about the SWATTING is only one example of the “dirty tricks” that they play, but others will stalk and kill, not only the victim that escaped, but their families as well…that guy who was in the news lately that killed several people in multiple houses, including an 11 year old boy, because of a “fight” with his girl friend and her family members over him not cleaning up trash at the family’s home that he was living in before the cops shot him to death.

While not all psychopaths are even likely to become killers, it is best I think to be “safe, not sorry” where it comes to dealing with people who have even shown verbal violence, and if someone has shown ANY tendency for physical violence, EXPECT the worst and hope for the best.


Excellent article Sarah,
they do want us to join them in their hell. That’s the bottom line.

I was reading about borderline personality disorder and now see how it relates to spath disorder.

From psychcentral:

Although they usually have a self-image that is based on being bad or evil, individuals with borderline personality disorder may at times have feelings that they do not exist at all. Such experiences usually occur in situations in which the individual feels a lack of a meaningful relationship, nurturing and support.

I do believe the problem with spaths is that they envy us for having a meaningful existance, which they can never have. So when they see us recovering from their attack, they must come back and finish us off.

Thanks for reminding us of the importance of keeping records.



Constantine- I agree with you. It’s a common misconception- but a misconception no less. To feel self-loathing, I think, requires the ability to reflect on one’s behaviors ( self-reflection ) and introspect. Psychopaths don’t. They are keenly aware that their calculated behaviors have a negative, degrading effect on their target, and they like it. They enjoy this. That would be inconsistent with self-loathing. As such, the notion that psychopaths are the devil-incarnate/manifest is right on target. Why? Because they purposefully and consciously abuse others- and they have no internal reservations about it, whatsoever.




Hi Constantine,
I woke up and it’s 2AM.

Self-loathing and shame isn’t a straight forward thing.
From what I understand, it has nothing to do with what a person has done. It is a feeling about who you are and your basic core as a person. It is a slime that has been put on you, often times by sexual or other abuse as a child. Parental rejection creates shame on a child. The shame is about what you are, which is different from guilt about what you’ve done. This shame is so overwhelming that the person chooses not to feel it at all and instead feels no shame and behaves shamelessly.

This doesn’t absolve the behavior, it only explains it. As a child, the person isn’t responsible because he has no perspective to understand his own behavior, but as an adult, it now becomes his responsibility.

Spaths feel all the things that they project on us. The slime we feel when we encounter them, is what they “feel”. But they aren’t aware of feeling it at all. They have numbed themselves and all that’s left is the overwhelming need to make others feel bad, so that they don’t have to live in their hell alone.


Interesting you talk about shame Skylar, my P used to talk about being shameless. He said he wanted to be called into court on a count of shameless indecency and then be able to tell the judge, that he felt no shame at all about whatever the instance was


I think something happened to him when he was a child about aged 7. I think there were issues with his mother. I was told after I dumped him that his mother used to put his hand on the hot cooker when he stole biscuits form the tin.

romanticfool no more

Yup, my X had not one trace of self loathing. Oh, he played humble quite well, but it was the first thing to crack.I knew he was a narcissist long before I realized he was a sociopath. After two years of NC, he suddenly sent an email to my daughter, all about how wonderful he was doing and how he hadn’t been in a “serious relationship” the whole 14 years we were together. Since it happened right after I happened to go into the place he used to work, I can only assume someone mentioned to him how much happier I am now, not to mention healthier. After we stopped laughing over his boasting, she blocked him. I did nothing to that man, yet he felt compelled to hurt me after all that time.

He certainly can’t (and with me didn’t try) to blame it on his childhood. He had a wonderful mother and sister who raised him. I had the traumatic childhood, it made me into a victim, not someone who tortures someone else. And at that, I choose not to be a victim any more.

Since X is dangerous, I keep a low profile. But I think the reason he hates me is because he knows darn well that I keep records. Maybe it wouldn’t hold up in a court of law, but it certainly would convince most people he wasn’t at all what he pretends to be. He’s all about the Mr. Nice Guy image he’s so carefully built. He has no idea that people don’t take him at his own self evaluation as much any more. What passed for charming and off beat at age 20 comes across as weird and creepy at age 50.


I do agree that it is a choice. These people choose not to feel pain and instead decide that others should feel their pain.

But as far as how they got slimed… it could be anyone.
My spath had a very good mother, AFAIK, but he blamed her for everything and hated her. He told me he loved her, but at the end, the mask came off and he showed that he hated her and all women. The true culprit was his spath father and spath grandfather, both of whom he idealized. Actually, he said that his grandfather was an abusive and raging alcoholic but that he kept chocolate bars on top of the refrigerator and if spath waited until he was sober, the spath gf would give him a special treat. I told spath, “HE WAS GROOMING YOU!”

If you’ve read my previous posts, you know what my parents did to me. But I have not been able to see them as anything but saintly since I was 20 years old. My mother prays the rosary every night. She used to bless me whenever I left her house. All the while knowing that I was with a man who didn’t love me and she didn’t say a word.

Parents are not always what their masks make them out to be.

romanticfool no more

Skylar, while I agree with you, X really didn’t have a traumatic childhood. Believe me, he would have used it if he could. He only feels for himself, no one else has any reality to him. Once he knew I was on to him, he stopped pretending, since he didn’t need me any more. He pretended to adore his mom, but he shed not one tear nor had any reaction to her death. He just used it to get what he wanted. However, he IS distantly related to Richard Nixon, so it may be hereditary. And yes, I know all about parents not being what they seem to be, my mother showed one side to the world and another to me. Her “mom mask” never slipped in front of others, even my older siblings. “Mask” is a perfect description!



LOL! You remember the campfire of my love.

Thanks for reminding me, that was hilarious. He is convinced that he can create drama through his writing. what a joke.

Your doctor spath and my helicopter spath would get together for a while, then he would rip her open. This is what he told his friend that he wanted to do to my neighbor spath: “rip her open from her neck to her navel.”

All spaths want to do that. It’s classic.

I agree that they feel nothing, but I believe that it is a result of choosing to feel nothing instead of the slime that some other spath has spread on them.

I have noticed, with spaths, that they are determined to have as much contact with young people, especially young men, as possible. His spath friend Harry, who lives in a crumbling shack down by the river and works as an airplane mechanic, said he despised his sister and wanted to, “cut her heart out.” But he felt the need to influence her sons “as much as possible”.

Realize, that they say these things while thinking that we don’t know that they are spaths. They think these are normal things to say and it comes out as just a conversation.

I keep on my poker face and don’t show horror, (I think) and encourage more talk.

Perhaps we will have to agree to disagree, but I have a spath brother and sister and never knew why they were such freaks.
Then, when I realized that I was with a spath and that he treated me exactly as my “saintly” parents had treated me, (plus poison) I realized that abuse can be so covert that you would never notice it. It is surreal.

The way it works is simply to withhold affection. It’s that easy. Then the victim thinks that there is something wrong with her. we love but don’t get love back. The victim feels shame for being unloveable. They might be treated as a golden child, as both my spath brother and sis were, but there is no love given. For me, I never thought that there was something wrong with me, I just thought I was DOING something wrong. There’s a big difference.

I’m lucky because my spath parents made me into a martyr. I think I could have become a spath, but martyr worked much better for me. Religion does serve a purpose!


I saw meltdown behavior with the recent sociopath I met and dumped before he could do me many harm. When I merely asked him if he could spend the night with a find instead of me, he told me that we were “done” and to not contact him any more. Then he sent me several more texts. I read none of them, but I saw enough to know they were derating to me.


Hi lovefraud friends,

I haven’t posted in a long, long time but felt a need to vent after seing this article.

So true, the malignant narcissist sociopath in my life NEVER stops leaving me alone….allowing me to heal, move on or forget he exists!

He’s continuously sending text messages, emails, etc. I have to add that I could not block the texts because T-Mobil makes you pay xtra for that servce, and being un-employed and on a limmited budget, I chose not to pay for this… I choose to delete before opening texts, though most of them I could read just in the subject matter. I blocked the emails, they went to spam, so I knew before I emptied my spam folder he was attempting contact.

When he didn’tget ANY responce from me, he changed his tactics. He sent me POST CARDS, from his travels abroad (knowing how much I love to travel and can’t do it right now because of my financial situation)…. telling me how much fun he’s having but that he misses traveling with me and still loves me….all the while he was traveling with some new victim. When that didn’t get a responce, he traspassed my property one day and delivered a bottle of wine with a note and left it enside my garage when I left the door open while I was working in the back yard!….more text messages, I finally blew up and texted back never to trasspass my property, or contact me, or else.

He stopped for all of about 4 weeks…..back at it again, he shows up at the ballroom dances (we both attend since it’s a shared passion) now with yet a new victim, looking more miserable, old and crotchety than ever! I, on the other hand have not felt as good or looked as good since I finally made the final cut and my friends all tell me so.

He sees that I look good and he starts oll over again….only this time I see that the better I feel and it shows, the worse he looks and it shows. He started texting again, went as far as letting me know that the new GF is recovering from cancer as himself….and that he has found his “soul mate” and that they are truly “happy”……all I could think about is how this poor woman who I see smiling and looking like she’s met the love of her life is about to get thrown into a tail spin of toxic emotions that are going to probably worsen her health. I can not say anything to her as I’ll probably be viewed as a crazy, jellous X-GF….

And so he continues to try to destroy me by letting me know how much fun he’s having with her traveling the world…(more post cards), something I used to do with him, that despite the fact that I feel better with out him and on the healing path, I still feel jelous that here I am still struggling with the job loss, the income loss the PTSD that he left me wtith….while he’s still doing the toxic dance in an un-seemgly un-interrupted way with out a care in the world.

This article is a good reminder that he is so full of self loathing that he can not stand to see me be happier with out him, at peace and wants to continue to destroy me.

Thank you for letting me vent!
Namastee to all.


Hi Aeylah – glad you came to post, you sound very isolated.

okay girl, you need to disengage from thinking he’s having the time of his life and from feeling like your nose is being rubbed in it (the travel). His actions are feeding into your feelings of being devalued by what he did to you, the job loss, and poverty. I have been there, I understand this. The spath (albeit over a short period of time) tried to do the same to me.

I recognize your financial limitations. But can’t actually get rid of your texting feature altogether? I would also CHANGE your email address. I did this, even though I used the email for business also. It was a small inconvenience for the freedom it brought me.

He came on to your property uninvited – and you can call the police. don’t write him, respond to him, threaten him to stay away CALL THE POLICE.

YOU have to take control now to make this change.

big hugs,
one joy


Hi Aeylah – The best revenge is living a good life, it’s great that you feel better and look better, keep up the good work. Sorry he is harrassing and stalking you, I think I would shoot first and ask questions later….so dust off your sling shot and get some big rocks….

The more I read about this type of person, the less I understand. I don’t think it’s for anyone to truly understand, but just learn from the misfortune of others and try to avoid them at all costs.

Ox Drover

Dea Aeylah,

Welcome back. I agree with One/Joy, he is not as happy as he pretends to be or he WOULD NOT BE TEXTING YOU, it is PROOF that he is thinking about YOU while he is with her….DUH?????? If he was all that “happy” he would not be thinking about an old GF He would be thinking abo0ut his “soul mate”—-LOL So obviously a LIE on his part.

As far as him going on travels and all this other stuff and you being broke and at home—-all the money in the world, winning the 100 million dollar lotto would NOT make him happy or any better off. You would and could be happy in a tent, eating out of a dumpster if you just take control of your SELF and your own thinking. Sure, being broke SUCKS, but our happiness must be dependent on WHAT IS INSIDE US that can NEVER BE TAKEN AWAY…..wealth and health, friends and lovers, can all be taken away….leave, be stolen or die, but what is inside us, our CHARACTER is what we use to find our peace and happiness. Get in touch with your inner “WEALTH” and quit worrying about what a great time he is having traveling…you are allowing him to make you feel poor and miserable….FOCUS INSTEAD ON HOW WEALTHY YOU ARE, and how POOR HE IS IN THE COIN THAT REALLY COUNTS! (((hugs))) and Prayers.


One Joy Step,
I got the email from Donna, but now what do I do? lol…it’s sunday…my brain shut down.


Hi Ana, I haven’t checked my email yet, but i am sure she has sent me yours at the same time. I will send an email later! Can you do massage electronically? LOL.

Hi Everyone its Sarah posting in between work. LOL at Ox Drovers “relationshit” comment. I agree to some degree with constantine about the the self loathing however I remember watching a video someone of a guy on death row and asked why he did what he did and he said because he just hates everyone and himself. And another where he just described his emotions as hate fullstop. Its also good to stand up to them where you can. See the article I did on “my psychopath has a heart NOT and scaring the crap out of them”

I am under no illusion as to what they are. I believe they are more intra species predators without any kind of soul or consience. In fact lately I wonder whether they are even human at all and did a few posts about it on my site. Anyway a quick hello to everyone and thanks for all the comments. With work comments and so on and whats going on I dont always have time to post on here.


great article. on that heart link. I’m so glad you got your kitten back. too bad your kitten wasn’t a poisonous snake.

They are filled with hate for humanity. My spath told me many times, but I din’t understand that he was not being metaphorical, “I hate humanity”. Since he is “human” genetically, that must include himself.

As humans, we must look at the big picture. We are a species that encompasses both predatory and prey behaviors.
Like pitbulls, genetics and upbringing combined, make us what we are.


well, if they mirror us in their cons (as per Sarah’s article), then i must possess some pretty terrific qualities (by my standards) because that ‘boy’ was rather awesome.

good morning sky – sorry you are still awake. I have been up for a couple of hours now getting ready for an early day. i hope you sleep soon and well.

LOL at Skylar. You lot are too funny. Did you notice how the heart looked a bit like a pile of poo LOL. I think your being too unkind to pitbulls because they are more like rabid dogs

@ one step at a time At far as mirroring us. I think the reasons psychos/spaths/narcs love to mirror the good things is us is because they dont have them in themselves. If we put as much energy into conning people as they did we’d do a brilliant job.

The difference is we all have a consience and they dont.


Good article Sara

They want revenge, they want to be recognized as being human.

I went NC again about 10 days ago, and today my spath had a melt down. I don’ tj know what set him off but he sent several emails, left a a panic-stricken voicemail he left for me ‘only YOU can help me”, he’s feeling bad because he can’t find a job (I presume).

I ignored the frenzy for about 6 hours, then I tried to call him back, and guess what happened? He ignored my call, I got routed to his voice mail. How ridiculous of me. What a mistake.

Spath: 1
SK: 0


Ox Drover

SK, BOINK!!!! (that’s the sound of my cyber cast iron skillet hitting your head with all the force I can swing it with!) You know better than that….his HOOK finally got what he wanted a RESPONSE from you. Oh, pity me! ‘ONLY YOU CAN HELP ME” WAAAAAHHHHH waaaahhhh


Hit the delete button when he leaves a voice mail. Do NOT listen to it.

Start over, DAY 1 of NC You can do it!!!!!


SK, check your email. I sent you something.


Why do all spaths want to “rip us open from neck to navel?”

Mine has said that to me….along many other ways to hurt me, I just dont understand why?


Skylar, Oxy

Yes, you’re right, I am pledging NO CONTACT once again.
I felt absolutely ambushed by him today.

So I ‘m recommitting again.

Thank you for the boink, I feel it myself.


Ox Drover

Dear SK,

Yep, sugar, we do fall off the “NO CONTACT WAGON” but we have to get back on it again! Eventually it will stick. It is like quitting smoking or quitting drugs or booze, each time we “fail” we go back a few steps, or sometimes back to square one! But hang in there sugar, one day at a time, and BEFORE you contact him again, come here. Skylar did that and we helped her stay the course and not contact him!

I even fell off the wagon here a few months ago so it happens to us all. That is also why my HEAD IS FLAT from boinking myself so many times. (((hugs)))



You asked why the spaths want to hurt us. Skylar said it’s envy.
That does seem right.


Dear One-Joy, Hens and Oxy,

Thanks for all the kind support and reminders! I have come a long way in the last 5 months of maintaining my resolve NEVER, EVER, to go back or have ANY CONTACT! …I have done many of the things recomended here including eliminating old Email adress. Changing my phone number is more difficult since it’s in all the thousands of resumes and job apps I’ve sent out.

Fact is that I’ve done allot of internal cleansing, both physically and emotionally once I realized that I was suffering from ADRENAL FATIGUE and depression as a result from the of abuse and loosing my career.

Once I got tested by a traditional medical doctor and a homeopathic doctor, (regardless of my limitted funds), I got on supplements, compound bioidentical hormone replacement and spent more time nurturing my spiritual side. I’ve allways been a healthy eater and atheletic , but I’ve even ramped that up a notch as well.

…As a result, I do feel and look better….the struggle still remains to not let the stalking spath and all his lies define me anymore!

…and if anyone has any doubt, like I did what defines stalking, it includes ANY unwarranted communication that causes distress and anxiety.

The advise here on LF is right on with all the articles! I highly recommend anyone out there who is suffering physically to get tested for Adrenal Fatigue! when you’ve suffered years of stress, the impact on your body is far more than the obvious.

I still have a long way to go, as I realize that getting beyond the toxic Spath is not going to happen over night…..but at least HENS was right when he said the best revenge of all is living life to the fullest and looking good!….

Namastee to all!


I do believe the Spath continues to hurt us when they harrass and stalk us because they ENVY the fact that WE can FEEL LOVE, SIMPATHY, EMPATHY and PAIN….Something THEY CAN NOT!

Ox Drover

Dear Aeylah,

I am glad that you are working on YOU! Ultimately, that is all we can do, is to take care of ourselves. There’s no changing them, and the “stalking” is just that! Trying to regain control over us.

Stress —high stress, long term stress—is devastating to our bodies and minds, it craps out the immune system and muddies our thinking. Getting a handle on stress, keeping change to a minimum, and FEELING SAFE is very important….and even then it takes time for our systems to recover.

I’m so glad you are doing better and focusing on YOU! TOWANDA!!!!


It is so true that spaths want to destroy us. I thought I was going to die….seriously. I didn’t want to breathe. I remember being on the floor sobbing for hours on end. I didn’t want to do anything but die. Fortunately, my body forced me to breathe, eat, and get up and face the world. I am much stronger knowing what I now know about what “it” is.
My last post, I mentioned that I wanted to send “it” a letter forgiving “it”. I read it out loud to my sister and she said… “there, you said it out loud for the universe to hear. You do not need to send it to him.” I am forunate in the fact that my sister has researched sociopaths and gets it. She is actually the one that told me about this site. She knew what I was going through and had a hard time understanding why I was having a hard time getting over “it”. She understands now and is very supportive and a good listener.
I want to send out thanks to all of you for your support. I believe that I am in a better place now that I have found this site… thanks to my sis!

Ox Drover

Dear Sadme,

I’m so glad that your sister gets it and that you have some support in the real world. Keep on reading and learning though as it will help you process the devastation you have been through.

Keep the NO CONTACT,a nd if you want to contact it to tell it something, just write it down, read it out, and destroy it, but do NOT contact it or send the letter. God bless (((Hugs)))



I hope one day you change your user name to LUCKYME.

You are lucky to have a sister like yours! Truly! I can’t tell you how many letters I wrote and sent, how many emails I sent, how many text messages, how many times I told my SPATH, and what happened? Nothing. He enjoyed it, apparently, and I continued to suffer, and he never changed. Can’t. Won’t.

I get it. You do too.


Denise Guiney

Sadme, yes you are lucky to have a sister who understands. The woman or man who never says ‘why did you get involved with him’ is a jewel. They understand that its not anything about you really there are lots of kind caring people out there but they pick their victim by taking advantage of particular sets of circumstances which make you weak and vulnerable. Lots of kind caring people with not so high self esteem do NOT get victimized because they are not in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The perfect creep is still bombarding my street mailbox after three years..and get this! Sending his bills to it. How desperate for revenge can you be to be that stupid!

mugged off again

MY monster projects his behavious on to me, he makes out he is the injured party…its taken me a long time to get it, but I finally know how and what sets him off…
I wish I could go back two yrs to when I first found this site…but hope sprang eternal and I stupidly broke the NC rule…I wouldnt again, and would tell anyone, its a good rule, and never break it, I use the strategies I got form reading this blog, especially the one about when you start to miss them …pull another file… brilliant strategy and it works.
Anyone reading this know one thing for sure…they will not change, and even if for a while they do…as soon as you let your guard down…they will kick it off again.


There is a short story in the June? July? version of the NEW YORKER called THE PILOT which is an interesting read about a person who has no sense of self.

Ox Drover

Dear SK, I’d love to read it. I hope Donna posts it.

Muldoon, yes, you went back. 85% of women do go back, and I’m not sure how many of the 15% that do NOT go back go on to healthy relationships. Many abused women go on to find ANOTHER abuser, so work on healing yourself and your children before you look for anything else.

Also, please don’t blame yourself for your daughter’s problems. There is a big genetic component and even with the BEST of parenting, she has a psychopathic father and grandfather PLUS has been raised in a dysfunctional home. You can’t take the blame for someone else’s choices, even your own child. You made some mistakes in staying with this psychopath, but your choices don’t totally fall responsible for HER choices. I’m glad she is getting counseling, but set some boundaries and stick to them. Try to keep yourself cool as you do, but you can only do so much about someone else’s choices. Even your child. Right now feeling “guilty” about it and taking the “blame” for her behavior is not helpful to her or to you. (((hugs))))


Mugged it’s so true what you said, about pull another file when you feel the urge. I can’t believe I gave so much of myself and my personhood to this ASSHOLE.

I watched the movie last night THE GOOD SON, it’s about a young boy who is a sociopath. It helped me understand why my sociopath said and did such contradictory things and helped me see my response to those contradictions. I recommend the movie. I ordered it from Netflix, it was from 1993.

I watched it with my children, they had the sociopath kid pegged right away. Hmmm.

SK I have seen The Good Son. That movie gave me the creeps. I saw it when I was a kid. DEFINITELY a sociopath son. When watching that movie, just imagine that kid growing up and then imagine we dated THAT. No wonder we got messed up!!!


Sk – my spath pegged a co-worker who was trying to con me. I told her about one incident and she said that the guy was conning me. I had no idea. It gave me a lot of insight into the co-workers motivation and once i was on LF i created a strategy for self protection against the co-worker. it worked.


Panther, exactly! You are exactly right! We DATED that! It got to be so obvious in the movie, “mommy! mommy” in the scene where there was a cliff….. holy cow, manipulative, excitement seeking, liar.

One Joy – I am amazed at how others see things we can not. I believe Donna and Dr. Leedom maybe did some work on this, or perhaps somebody else? I’m not sure, but I have learned that I am FAR MORE TRUSTING than most people. I can clearly see that now about myself.

Maybe your coworkers were teaching you the same thing?



Sk – the guy was a really manipulative jerk, it would have taken a couple more incidents for me to ‘see’ it. this was my first meeting with the guy. but the spath pegged him immediately.

it was the spath who taught me that i was too trusting. too compassionate. and now i have to glean the lessons and undo the damage and find the right balance with the new info. i am forever changed, but i need to become someone who feels the ground under her feet again, and who trusts her own perceptions. really, there couldn’t be any more evil to understand, could there? I understand that i will never be the primary partner if i am in a relationship with someone who is an addict (the drug of choice will be) and soon i will have my internal check list for n/p/s – i don’t think there is any more evil under the sun, is there?

Ooh, the trust issue. Yeah, I have that problem too. Trust and gullibility.

I feel uncomfortably paranoid when I suspect that everyone could be “evil” or “out to get me” and feel on guard all the time. That is not the world I want to live in, but maybe it’s me being in denial about the fact that I DO live in that world and just cannot handle it. I want to believe everyone is just candy and sugarplums. I blame Disney.


panther – I wasn’t raised on disney. i was raised by an n father, with an n sister and a mother who was supply/ a martyr. That will do it to. I was always the most ‘compassionate’ of the bunch. Was ridiculed for it and had it used against me also – whatever suited their momentary needs and programming/ disorder.

i actively worked to increase my compassion. we call where i went with it, idiot compassion, because it lacked discernment.


It is really sad how they want to destroy us to bits and see us unhappy even if we didn’t mean them any harm.

mine hurt me so much emotionally, then came back after 5 months again to see if he can fool me again.

they have no conscience. they have no pity. they have no humanity.

it is sad that the one to whom you did good things for does not care about you even one bit.

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