The Society for the Scientific Study of Psychopathy met in New Orleans, LA April 16-18, 2009. There were several hot topics discussed at the meeting including how psychopathy might be different in men and women. The general consensus seemed to be that psychopathy is under-diagnosed in women because in women the symptoms are different.
Dr. Edelyn Verona is a, leader in the Society. Her group presented, “An Examination of Borderline Personality Disorder and Secondary Psychopathy Across Genders.” To understand these research findings look at the list of traits below:
Factor 1 Traits (Primary Psychopathy)
• Glib and superficial
• Egocentric and grandiose
• Lack of remorse or guilt
• Lack of empathy
• Deceitful and manipulative
• Shallow emotions
Factor 2 Traits (Secondary Psychopathy)
• Impulsive
• Poor behavior controls
• Need for excitement
• Lack of responsibility
• Early behavior problems
• Adult antisocial behavior
Dr. Verona’s group looked at the relationship between borderline personality (BPD) traits Factor 1 and Factor 2 in women. They stated, “We hypothesized that gender would moderate the relationship between secondary psychopathic characteristics and features, such that Factor 2 would correlate more strongly with BPD in women than in men. We further expected that primary psychopathic characteristics would be negatively related to BPD.”
The first part of their hypothesis turned out to be supported, that is Factor 2 was associated with BPD in both men and women but more so women.
More important though, is that the second part of their hypothesis was not supported. Primary psychopathic features were positively related to BPD and “F2 was significantly more predictive of BPD in high F1 women relative to low F1 women.”
The authors concluded, “In particular, the combination of F1 and F2 seems predictive of BPD in women, but not men. This suggests that psychopathy (which is typically defined as being high on both F1 and F2) is manifested as BPD in women.”
Their conclusions are supported by other studies showing a positive correlation between psychopathy and BPD scores.
I spoke with Dr. Verona about their findings, commenting that many psychiatrists consider BPD to be a mood or anxiety disorder. She answered that the criteria for BPD are not precise enough. A woman with PTSD and/or mood symptoms can be diagnosed with BPD if she is also impulsive. It does not seem fitting to group these women together with psychopathic women, especially since the treatment may be different for those who have mood/anxiety disorders.
What does this all mean for you who have family members or co-workers with BPD? My advice is consider the degree of harm done by the person in the context of Factor 1 and Factor 2 traits. The more a woman or man has BOTH sets of traits, the more dangerous she/he is likely to be.
No surprises here.
My brother’s wife has every single trait (BOTH FACTOR 1&2).
PLUS SHE HAS THE SADISTIC TRAIT AND THE ‘PREDATORY STARE’.
I know it sounds hysterical, but I think she is capable of killing, or at least “arranging an accident”.
For some reason, society is much more sympathetic to female psychopaths than male.
These women are just as dangerous as the men. When there is a small child involved, they become MORE dangerous because they manipulate/abuse the child for their own agenda.
Watching a psychopath mother care for her child is like trying to get a baby away from a boa constrictor snake. The harder you try to free the child, the more angry the snake becomes, the tighter its grip.
Dr. Leedom, If I understand this correctly, you are suggesting that BPD is the diagnosis often dished out by mental health professionals to women who are psychopaths. Did I read this right?
I was employed by a woman who “buddied up” to me, much like Betty’s situation in her article several weeks ago. She confided that she had been diagnosed as BPD, but I got to watch her behavior over about six months.
She was highly manipulative, glib, charming, a pathological liar, and I watched her fly into “narcissistic rages” and harm everyone around her, including her own grandchildren. I’ve never seen a more malicious individual. I stuck around because she was the one employer available to me at the time. In the end, I’d have been better off with a cardboard sign, begging at the exit ramp of a freeway. She was a psychopath, through and through. All the promises of payment “when the next check comes in” were worth less than the air her promises were written on.
Yes, she was sadistic, and had a predatory stare, that she didn’t use until late in the game. Now I know why all those people before me quit and carried their stuff out of the office in the middle of the night.
There is something “machine-like” about the female psychopath.
You can tell when they are interested in something, because they will do it to excess. They will not know when enough is enough.
For example, no child needs 4 birthday cakes for their birthday party. Some may see this as a loving mother. But it is NOT a loving mother when she is doing it to make HERSELF look good. It is NOT a loving mother when the child has fading bruises under her party dress. It is NOT a loving mother when she does not pay any attention to her child the other 364 days of the year.
There is something cold and emotionless about them. Men are expected to be unemotional. Women are not.
Whether they are making supper or coming at you with an ice pick, their face never changes.
Once you see the mask slip, the “buddying up” becomes really CREEPY.
The CREEPIEST trait is that they seem to have a 6th sense about knowing when you are “onto them”. You have to be very careful.
I have to go into “Psychopath Mode” whenever I deal with my sisiter-in-law. That means emotions are shut down and guard goes up.
It is like going into psychological warfare.
Dr. Leedom: I certainly can be all three… impulsive, depressed, anxious… all at the same time, and you are right, I would not want to be grouped with psychopathic women, or medically treated like one! I don’t have any of the F1 traits. In the F2 catagory I can be impulsive (as I already mentioned) and have a need for excitement, although there is absolutely no excitement going on around here now! LOL. Thank you for your observations!
“The CREEPIEST trait is that they seem to have a 6th sense about knowing when you are “onto them”. You have to be very careful.”…Rosa
I think that is a critical point. When you finally “see” what they are, and the mask slips…that is when the F1 factors, hidden when they are “in control”, emerge.
Then, and only then…does the target/victim see the pattern, and then the smear campaign, the pathological lying, is discovered. And the lack of empathy…remorse…guilt.
And yes…I think women are “under-diagnosed”, due to cultural factors.
Thanks, Dr. Leedom.
Dear Rosa,
“The CREEPIEST trait is that they seem to have a 6th sense about knowing when you are “onto them”. You have to be very careful. ”
It is important to realize that you can be fairly safe, as long as they don’t know you know. Once they realize you know, the gloves come off.
Many of them have very successful covers. They claim to suffer mysterious disabling ailments that are almost impossible to either diagnose or rule out. They play on people’s pity and have amazing explanations for all their bad behavior.
Glib really doesn’t cover it. We’ve got one in the family who sounds so reasonable, you feel like a fool for doubting her. We have a policy of listening to her as seldom and briefly as possible. Crazy, I know! But it’s the only way not to get sucked in to her fantasy world. We’re all better educated, and usually we think we’re pretty smart. Where she’s been concerned, we’ve all been dumber than stumps. Knowing there’s a “stupid zone” rather like a gravity well swirling around her, we all do our level best to stay out of her influence.
Dear Liane,
WOW! Some great stuff! I have suspected for some time that BPD and Psychopathy were the “male vs female” Diagnoses.
Just as female cardiac patients are frequently UNdiagnosed because the SYMPTOMS IN WOMEN vs MEN are DIFFERENT many times, I think the same may be true in this instance.
There is also the “hormonal” differences in men and women and the monthly fluctuations in women that have to be taken into account as well. The PMS “bitchyness” in women makes me wonder if PMS behavior changes are a part of “BPD” or of psychopathy in women.
I wonder what studies have been done on “PMS” vs viiolent behavior, and then coorelated to a dx of psychopathy and/or BPD?
EC–I love your “stupid zone” comment!!!! You are getting to the level of Aloha with your “right on funny comments! ” Congratulations. I aspire to reach that level! ((((hugs)))))
Rosa:
“PLUS SHE HAS THE SADISTIC TRAIT AND THE ’PREDATORY STARE’.
I know it sounds hysterical, but I think she is capable of killing, or at least “arranging an accident”. (…)
Watching a psychopath mother care for her child is like trying to get a baby away from a boa constrictor snake. The harder you try to free the child, the more angry the snake becomes, the tighter its grip.”
Rosa, you’ve described my mother to a “T”, except that she didn’t have the factor 2 traits for the most part. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the movie “Aliens” with Sigourney Weaver, especially the scene where the alien is going after Newt (the little girl in the story – the only survivor from her family) and Sigourney gets into the “loading suit” to save her? I once recorded that and gave it to my therapist to say that that’s what my life felt like. That the person sitting on the end of my bed at night was that monster. My first mistake was going to a feminist based therapist – I think she thought I was deranged. What she told me was that I was overblowing things: making things up and imagining them; I’m certain she felt that there is no way a woman could be that bad to her daughter. So you have no idea what a gift to your niece your validation of her perceptions will be when she’s older.
I still haven’t been able to figure it out, but I’ve come to the “realization” recently that in some way the presence of my grandmother must have acted like Sigourney’s role in that movie. Neither of them ever mentioned the other, but I had the feeling that my mother was afraid of my grandmother and, even though I have no logical or credible evidence for this, that my grandmother’s loyalty and connection to me kept me alive. For whatever it’s worth, I suspect that as long as you stay silently watching, even from a distance, “accidents” are less likely to occur. I’d always felt that my mother would have killed me if she could have gotten away with it. I think my grandmother’s watchful eye meant that she couldn’t. As I said, I have no evidence for this other than gut feeling. It may sound strange, but my grandmother’s love for and connection with me, even though she didn’t “actively” defend me against my mother, is so powerful in my psyche that it felt as strong to me as Sigourney’s defence of that child in that movie.
I can’t say that your niece is lucky, but she’s lucky to have you in her life.
Annie
Hello Dr. Leedom:
I have my own personal theories about why women psychopaths are underdiagnosed, and would be interested to get your feedback.
I’m a big fan of Dr. Hare, and grateful that he’s brought some attention to this, but I agree that there are short-comings with the PCL-R that creates problems for detecting/diagnosing female psychopaths. For what it’s worth, from my own personal experience I suspect that there are different types of psychopaths, that researchers get sidetracked by their initial exposures, and that those traits – which don’t always belong together, have been muddled up into both the psychopathy definitions and criteria – for men as well as women.
I could be incorrect, but from my reading I think that Cleckly for the most part described the casual opportunistic amoral thief/conman type (the one who never met a mark or unattended wallet he didn’t like), and I think his original work has perhaps overly influenced the PCL-R.
I think that Hare, on the other hand, got so blind-sided by the psychopath he met originally who threatened his first session with a knife and later “fixed” his brakes, that the first part of his professional life and research became almost fixated on that particular type of psychopath (that he incidentally also had easy access to study): violent male psychopaths in maximum security prison. I find it odd, however, that the most significant traits that differentiated Hare’s brake-tamperer from Clecky’s criteria didn’t make it into Hare’s PCL-R: namely predation and sadism. If I’m remembering this correctly Hare’s psychopaths, like Cleckly, were opportunistic and reckless – factor 2 charcteristics – but more sadistically violent and vengeful against a particular target, rather than any easy target.
What both of them seem to have missed in my opinion, and this perhaps is why the criteria for psychopathy leads to underdiagnosis of women, are a number of “views” or versions of psychopathy, some of which it seems to me Hare is lately trying to bring some awareness to but which, in my opinion, would require updates to the PCL-R.
For instance, Hare has lately been writing about the successful psychopath (e.g. Enron, Worldcom, Bernie Madoff, perhaps Conrad Black), and yet I suspect the major difference between the unsuccessful and successful psychopath lies in the relative presence or absence of factor 2 traits.
I would also add a category for predatory and sadistic psychopaths;admittedly those could be diagnosed by existing criteria, and yet their most defining traits are not listed in the PCL-R.
And I think that female psychopaths also fit on that same spectrum – some are opportunistic, over-sexed, manipulators. Others, like my mother and Rosa’s sister-in-law, are esteemed professionals who would never present themselves that way. I also think that various incarnations of Munchausen’s by proxy would relate to female psychopathy, and those criteria are missing/absent from the PCL-R. I suspect another difference may be that certain psychopathic mothers get enough of their “supply” from abusing their children that their psychopathic behaviours wouldn’t be as readily detectable, or exercised, outside the home.
I think that there is also a spectrum of psychopathy that relates to either Narcissism or Sadism that isn’t properly captured in the PCL-R. I couldn’t say that my mother was a narcissist particularly, but she could definitely be termed a sadist. I’d be interested to hear your opinons re: the relation between sadism and psychopathy.
Thank you for providing updates from the conference, and for bringing some much needed awareness to this issue.
Kind regards,
Annie
Annie:
You are onto something here:
“certain psychopathic mothers get enough of their “supply” from abusing their children that their psychopathic behaviors wouldn’t be as readily detectable, or exercised, outside the home.”
That is why it is SO frustrating. You have to be in a close, personal relationship with these psychopaths to see the true evil and sadistic qualities.
And unless you see it up close and personal, you will find it unbelievable when someone tries enlighten you.
If it weren’t for my niece, my sister-in-law’s personality disorder would have never been uncovered. I probably would have never suspected a thing. VERY SCARY.
One more tip when it comes to children:
When a child is walking around at age 18 months saying, “Mommy is the monster.” TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. DO NOT LAUGH AND THINK IT IS A CUTE JOKE, OR SOMETHING THAT WAS LEARNED FROM TV.
The first sentence out of a child’s mouth should NEVER be, “Mommy is the Monster.”