The Society for the Scientific Study of Psychopathy met in New Orleans, LA April 16-18, 2009. There were several hot topics discussed at the meeting including how psychopathy might be different in men and women. The general consensus seemed to be that psychopathy is under-diagnosed in women because in women the symptoms are different.
Dr. Edelyn Verona is a, leader in the Society. Her group presented, “An Examination of Borderline Personality Disorder and Secondary Psychopathy Across Genders.” To understand these research findings look at the list of traits below:
Factor 1 Traits (Primary Psychopathy)
• Glib and superficial
• Egocentric and grandiose
• Lack of remorse or guilt
• Lack of empathy
• Deceitful and manipulative
• Shallow emotions
Factor 2 Traits (Secondary Psychopathy)
• Impulsive
• Poor behavior controls
• Need for excitement
• Lack of responsibility
• Early behavior problems
• Adult antisocial behavior
Dr. Verona’s group looked at the relationship between borderline personality (BPD) traits Factor 1 and Factor 2 in women. They stated, “We hypothesized that gender would moderate the relationship between secondary psychopathic characteristics and features, such that Factor 2 would correlate more strongly with BPD in women than in men. We further expected that primary psychopathic characteristics would be negatively related to BPD.”
The first part of their hypothesis turned out to be supported, that is Factor 2 was associated with BPD in both men and women but more so women.
More important though, is that the second part of their hypothesis was not supported. Primary psychopathic features were positively related to BPD and “F2 was significantly more predictive of BPD in high F1 women relative to low F1 women.”
The authors concluded, “In particular, the combination of F1 and F2 seems predictive of BPD in women, but not men. This suggests that psychopathy (which is typically defined as being high on both F1 and F2) is manifested as BPD in women.”
Their conclusions are supported by other studies showing a positive correlation between psychopathy and BPD scores.
I spoke with Dr. Verona about their findings, commenting that many psychiatrists consider BPD to be a mood or anxiety disorder. She answered that the criteria for BPD are not precise enough. A woman with PTSD and/or mood symptoms can be diagnosed with BPD if she is also impulsive. It does not seem fitting to group these women together with psychopathic women, especially since the treatment may be different for those who have mood/anxiety disorders.
What does this all mean for you who have family members or co-workers with BPD? My advice is consider the degree of harm done by the person in the context of Factor 1 and Factor 2 traits. The more a woman or man has BOTH sets of traits, the more dangerous she/he is likely to be.
Dear Hurt Mom, How I feel for you! Both my daughters, {now 43 and 45}, are narc/sociopaths.It is very very hard to accept it. before I found Lovefraud, i thought I was losing my mind, and the pain and grief were just terrible. My younger daughter,C., I havent seen for 17 years. she has never once allowed me to see any of her 3 kids, now 13, 10, and one year old, not even as babies. She is a total control freak, has lived for 14 years with a rich jewish boy, but wont marry him. The “Mum in law, pays all the school fees, bought them a 3 million house in an exclusive area of Sydney, and 2 cars,{one for the Nanny}.My other daughter has used and abused me forover 25 years. She only rings if she wants money. With the support of LF, I went No contact with her, and have been for
a couple of months now. I set a couple of boundaries, and she hasnt honoured either of them, so I have to accept I may never see her again. I still feel guilt, even though I know she doesnt care a jot for me, and only uses me. her 3 kids are now living full time with her ex husband, as she has lost her job, her flat,has no car, no money, and has over A$20,000 in credit card debts. Ive given her over $10,000 in the last 3 years, it has to stop. I wrote to her to tell her,”The Mum bank is now closed”. Since then, I havent heard a peep out of her.
She is 45, still looks good,and as long as she can go on suckering people in, I suppose shell survive. She has lied, conned me out of huge sums of cash, causd me dreadful worry and anguish by her heartless behaviour. I now wonder what horrible people I gave birth to all these years ago. Up to the age of 10 or 12, they wer e normal, loving little girls. I feel ashamed to have given birth to such dreadful people, I dont recognise them, they lie, cheat, are snobbish, haughty, arrogant, cruel, uncaring, without kindness , empathy or compassion. I should feel sorry for them, but I feel sorrier for me, that I allowed them to treat me with such disrespect, cruelty, and contempt, for so long. NO MORE! Ive had enough. I now dont miss them. I havent seen the older one since last Xmas, and she only came because she conned $200 from me to hir a car, so th kids could come over to my place, have a lovely lunch, pocket their gifts, and leave within 2 hours. Havent seen her since that day.Jesus predicted that in the End times, the behaviour of children to their parents would be like this, and He was right! Its happening now! geminigirl.
I talked to an former employee today she has been harrassed by the same sociopath as me. She will provide me a written letter she wrote to Human resourses back when she file the harrassment..apparently the sociopath file a counter harrassment case against her..resulting in my former coworker in leaving on stress leave and then quiting without notice. Its very sad but I think maybe things are going to work out in my favor..i have a list of things shes done.
excuse my typos..i meant filed not file :/
It is important to realize that you can be fairly safe, as long as they don’t know you know.
My two sociopaths: sister and neighbour. Neither of them know I know. However, neither does the world who provides their N needs.
I realise I am facing a world of people who now see this extremely quiet person (me) suddenly become a malicious and destructive individual. All without talking to me, asking me questions, seeing me. They have all the info they need from my abusers. To this day nobody has spoken to me, but actively avoided me or cut out warmth in their communication.
Nobody has noticed where the constant source of lies/slander originate. Though what makes this complex is that my two abusers set up others to do their work, so I react at a complete outsider (eg my brothers). This outsider then reports back to abuser with ‘yes, you’re right about her, thanks for warning me’. So I am now isolated and will never be believed when I speak the truth.
Now I finally understand why for 25 years I used to divide the world into 3 groups: my abuser, 6 billion people and the thrid most destructive – the scores of people who are sucked into the abuser’s sticky web, who turn against me. They all ‘know something about me’ well before I meet them, so upon meeting them they show signs of wariness towards me. I thought I was crazy for thinking this. This is exactly sociopathic abuse well before I knew anything about the disorder.
It’s dealing with the 3rd group – whilst I want them to know what’s going on right under their nose, I fear that telling them will create more harm for me (so that’s a no). Are targets silenced forever? I am seeing how this is the best option (for the sake of my own physical/mental health).
Outlier,
that is what happened to me as well.
Your solution will have to depend on all the variables in your particular situation. and you will have to be patient as opportunities arise.
What you have to do is become very well informed and versed on the subject of narcissism. Read as many books as you can. And then, without mentioning your sociopaths by name, simply bring up the subject to those people who seem to be receptive and who have time to listen. The theme of your discussion will be narcissism and slander. With enough discussion, people will eventually recognize for themselves who is an N and who isn’t.
I went to the meeting at work and provided tons of evidence that she’s been harrassing me..I completely turned the harrassement case around on her..They found out that I did nothing wrong..So I got payed for the 3 days I was suspended and they added on extra hours on my paycheck which I was happy about..on the other hand they gave her a warning..My union Rep put this sociopath in her place..He told her “you are the one who is harrassing her” By calling me at work..and tons of other things she’s done. she actually had the nerve to say “I don’t know why she filed the harrassement case” then My union rep says..are you kidding me? YOU ARE THE ONE WHO HAS DONE THIS! We are all sitting here today because you filed the case!” Then HR says “yes..you(meaning her) are the one who brought your personal issues into the work place” I was very pleased with the outcome of this situation with the sociopath..So now they are watching her. She’s walking on thin ice. I found out recently that she has a new victim to pick on..this girl was once her closest friend and now just as I thought she has victimized her like she did me. I just hope this other victim doesn’t let the sociopath get away with it. OH and check this out..this sociopath now want me and her to be like we use to be..”friends again” haha can you believe that..after she tried to get me fired? and calling me at work on her day off to provoke me?” Im just putting on a smile and keeping it strictly business. But Im staying clear from this sociopath. Well I just hope that Human Resources will not tolerate this sociopath another day. She is evil and even has a gun. I brought that up in the meeting as well.
Hello, I’m new on this post, but I too, have been touched by a psychopath. I met a beautiful, charming, woman, she worked in my same field, so we had a few things in common.
she came over, and I couldn’t get her to leave. She set me up, moved in, and made my life a living hell.
A demon, an enemy in my own house, everything is ok, while they are getting what they want, when they want, but if you fight back, watch out, they become the victim, the threats, and yelling begins, the violence creeps out, and you’ve got a hell of a problem. You can never confront them, because they
never answer any questions, you can’t trust them, they constantly lie, and then forget their lies, they mimic you,they say what you want to hear. They play different roles in order to get you to think how great they are. You know there is something wrong, but you can’t pinpoint it, they blame you
for everything that goes wrong. They don’t care about you, they have no remorse, no empathy, and they are very vindictive. They take control, use you, abuse you, make your life a living hell, and then some more. I got rid of her, but it wasn’t easy, I got arrested, harrassed, threatened, stalked,
she beat up my cat, and smashed its teeth, when I wasn’t around, Reality is you can’t fight back, because they find ways to screw you, and they usually win. I ended her games
got two people to witness her evil doings, got her out of my house, told her I was scared of her, and then I sent her a list of all the traits of the psychopath, telling her she had every single one of them. I exposed her, she knows I know.
She found someone else, I am finally free. They are very dangerous, My advice to people who are dealing with psychos
don’t, you can never win, don’t fight them, don’t entertain them, get them out of your life, no contact, no nothing,
expose them, be sure you have a couple of witnesses hanging around, and expect the worse, but once they know that you know, they have to find another prey. I’m still recuperating, it’s been a hard journey, thank you for these posts they help alot.
Imfree:
welcome to LF…..you’ll find a lot of healing stories and articles here.
You sound very strong and quite educated and certainly NOT questioning your decision…in the least!
I commend you for that empowerment!
Keep learning, keep growing and remain strong.
Good to have you here posting.
Take good care of YOURSELF!!!
Thanks Erin,
I’m glad I found LF, … it’s nice to be able to share with other people that have been caught in a psychos web, hopefully
help them get out. I’ve read alot on this topic, and I’ve lived it
and it’s amazing how many of these Demons are out there
just waiting for the right person to destroy.
Hopefully, I can help others by sharing, there is life after a psycho, but its hard.
You have to find the strength, from wherever, and get them out of your life, the bottom line is it’s you or them.
Thanks
witsend,
you wrote above, about your boy, “when he was younger he had a ‘big brother’ from the big brother big sister organization for several years.”
Not to scare you or anything but my ex had a juvie record, and I honestly believe he’s a Spath. He also confided to me that his gay male cousin and he had oral sex with each other, when my ex was age 12 and his gay male cousin was around age 15. Is there a possibility that that “big brother” might have molested your son, behind the scenes?