The Society for the Scientific Study of Psychopathy met in New Orleans, LA April 16-18, 2009. There were several hot topics discussed at the meeting including how psychopathy might be different in men and women. The general consensus seemed to be that psychopathy is under-diagnosed in women because in women the symptoms are different.
Dr. Edelyn Verona is a, leader in the Society. Her group presented, “An Examination of Borderline Personality Disorder and Secondary Psychopathy Across Genders.” To understand these research findings look at the list of traits below:
Factor 1 Traits (Primary Psychopathy)
• Glib and superficial
• Egocentric and grandiose
• Lack of remorse or guilt
• Lack of empathy
• Deceitful and manipulative
• Shallow emotions
Factor 2 Traits (Secondary Psychopathy)
• Impulsive
• Poor behavior controls
• Need for excitement
• Lack of responsibility
• Early behavior problems
• Adult antisocial behavior
Dr. Verona’s group looked at the relationship between borderline personality (BPD) traits Factor 1 and Factor 2 in women. They stated, “We hypothesized that gender would moderate the relationship between secondary psychopathic characteristics and features, such that Factor 2 would correlate more strongly with BPD in women than in men. We further expected that primary psychopathic characteristics would be negatively related to BPD.”
The first part of their hypothesis turned out to be supported, that is Factor 2 was associated with BPD in both men and women but more so women.
More important though, is that the second part of their hypothesis was not supported. Primary psychopathic features were positively related to BPD and “F2 was significantly more predictive of BPD in high F1 women relative to low F1 women.”
The authors concluded, “In particular, the combination of F1 and F2 seems predictive of BPD in women, but not men. This suggests that psychopathy (which is typically defined as being high on both F1 and F2) is manifested as BPD in women.”
Their conclusions are supported by other studies showing a positive correlation between psychopathy and BPD scores.
I spoke with Dr. Verona about their findings, commenting that many psychiatrists consider BPD to be a mood or anxiety disorder. She answered that the criteria for BPD are not precise enough. A woman with PTSD and/or mood symptoms can be diagnosed with BPD if she is also impulsive. It does not seem fitting to group these women together with psychopathic women, especially since the treatment may be different for those who have mood/anxiety disorders.
What does this all mean for you who have family members or co-workers with BPD? My advice is consider the degree of harm done by the person in the context of Factor 1 and Factor 2 traits. The more a woman or man has BOTH sets of traits, the more dangerous she/he is likely to be.
Tood,
I cried as I read this as I am feeling exactly what you described=nothing compares to the pain and hearbreak of trying to reach a child who can not be reached.
I keep thinking, if he can just be around me and my home where there is peace,and love, maybe he will go in the right direction. I KNOW this is delusional. He grew up here. He had an opportunity and blew it then. Everything you know about S is different when it is your child. I still see glimpses of his beautiful personality, and I repeat stories to him about things he did as a child to maybe show him how much he was loved then, and try to create fun, wholesome things for us to do now. In some ways, I mourn due to feeling it may be my last chance to have him in this home and cherish the “normal” times we have now. The flip side, I know he is a time bomb and matter of time before the masks slips and everything is turned upside down with financial detriment always a factor with a S. No way around it.
Tood, I am so sorry for what you went thru, its as painful as it is financially devastating. Try not to be shamed for what your child has done. I have been thru all those emotions, and continue to, but in reality we are not responsible for their actions. I can so see my son doing EXACTLY what you said. In shock, I thought about my own phone service (he has been using it) AND is begging to use one of my vehicles for transp. to work. I panic that he could be collecting info just as you described for personal gain with criminal intent.
Thank you for sharing your very personal story. For some reason, I had a huge problem admitting it. Somehow in my mind saying it might make it too real to deal with. However, the opposite is true right now. I must take a deep breath, and use all the research and knowledge about S to get in reality with my son.
LTL- I just found the thread where Housie said her son is a S as well. WoW. I had not read it until now. Lord be with us all.
I pray every day for my 5-year old niece who is being raised by my “raging psychopath” sister-in-law.
I have seen glimpses of psychopathic behavior in her. But I am not sure if it is genetic, or if she is acting out what her mother does. I want to believe she is acting out.
I know that I have bonded with this child even if her mother has not.
This child reached for her mother as an infant. It was “Mommy” who did not reach back.
I have already accepted the fact that this child will have psychological scars that will require therapy later in life.
Does anyone know what the probability is that she will turn out to be a psychopath?
Sabrina
Sounds like you and I maybe need to talk. I have a 16 year old son that I struggle with on a daily basis. Because of his age and because I only saw signs of this since he was 15, it
seems to soon to label him. Every day I see another “layer” of him. Everything I see scares the hell out of me.
I see very little of the son I knew just over a year ago. He is almost like a stranger to me now in so many ways.
EVERYPLACE I have turned to for help has pretty much said…. Well he hasn’t broken the law yet…… As I see it, the road that he is on without intervention NOW it is only a matter of time before that will happen. He already has the “blame” thing down to a science. Nothing is ever his fault.
I am sorry to hear that you have just recently come to terms what you see in your son. I really feel for you as there is no worse feeling in the world than a mother who feels absolutely powerless to help her own child. I myself already feel powerless and he is only 16. I have seen a “dark side” to my son that although it is hard to articulate into words it is as real as it possibly can be, when it is experienced.
It is as if looking into the eyes of a stranger when those “moments” happen. And actually wanting to withdraw, away from that look, those eyes….Maybe you have experienced this? I have only experienced this a few times with my son but I will never forget it.
I lived down the street from a teenaged kid, who was a completely good clean confident normal kid, but had an older brother who had schizophrenia. A few years later, I found out that guy himself had become schizophrenic. Very sad. But there seems to be some success with antipsychotic drugs for this affliction, which happens to 0.4”“0.6% of the population.
Lately around here I’m seeing a lot of stories about kids who’ve turned sociopathic in their teen years. Maybe there’s an expert out there who can answer these questions, as this is beyond me:
1. If sociopathy has temperamental roots, how does this thing happen so suddenly?
2. Is this a different kind of sociopathy, when it happens suddenly? And is this form treatable?
3. Why hasn’t there been more progress regarding sociopathic treatment when it is much more common and much more destructive to society than schizophrenia?
==============
Student Of Sociopathy
Dear witsend, I am sorry you are going thru this as well. It is a painful journey. If I had known what a S was when my son was younger-poss 14 yrs old I would have been suspicious then. Teenagers can go thru a very selfish stage where sometimes interest in opposite sex, drinking and drug experimentation alter their behavior. As bad as it seems,I was hoping this was the case and it would reverse itself by now (at age 20). That has not been the case.
Your comment about looking into eyes of a stranger is so true. My son will be in a war of words with me that would make your head spin. I have had to work on my temper more with him than ANY other person in my life. Talk about pushing buttons. Its because he mixes truth with lies with manipulation with paranoia with distrust with cruelty.
Recently, he made me so upset with his crazy making, I cried. He looked at me so coldly, laughed & said Your good at crying, I heard you cried in court with your X just for sympathy. I NEVER cried in court, in fact my GOAL was to keep FROM crying. A complete lie on his part.
Witsend, when my son was 16 (your sons age)he was so out of control as he lived with me,single mom. I went to court and asked for help. tHIS WAS an extremely unpopular move with my sons step dad who had helped raise him, up until we divorced. other family members thought I was horrible to take my son to court so to speak. Later, everyone lived to see this was a good decison.
THe courts appointed a probation officer to do drug testing, keep his curfews, and come to our home to see if my son was following rules. My son failed at this and was put into a Family Connection home for a few months,-in which I went to visit often, as it was structured to repair families & re condition wayward children.
That wasnt enough for him, Boot camp for juvenile offenders was next along with some jail time before the camp was available.
My Son HATED me for “putting him in jail”. He NEVER owned any of the blame for putting his family thru this. My whole family ralleyed to help him-my brother thought I was exaggerating the problems, so he took him (before courts were asked to get involved) as last ditch effort to “straighten him up” with a male authority- My son caused chaos within a few days at their home, had his grandmother in tears as he argued incessantly with her.
Lies and manipulation are his specialty.Oh along with smear campaigns. He had everyone who would listen believing I am a crazy,incompetent mother- think” 8 Mile”- movie about Eminem’s drug addicted mom in trailer park. He told our pastor at 16,that I was “addicted” to rx meds, and bi polar plus many other lies that have NO TRUTH whatsoever!-just lies out of thin air. I’ve never had problems with any drugs or any diagnosis of BP!
In remembering all this, I am thinking OMG! He is back in this house again! There are so many other details, this is just where we started. I hope it may help you in some way.
I will never regret going to the courts to declare my son “defiant.”THe courts explained to me that at 16, my window of opportunity was there. There would be only 2 years to attempt to turn around his bad behavior- AT 18, he is
not eligible to be held accountable as a juvenile- no help from probation officer reeling him back in as a MINOR.
AT 18, he is considered an adult- real Jail, no sealed records.
I had no choice but to try to turn this child around plus I had a baby girl at home that it was affecting. Once at 15 yr. old, I left my son with my daughter (she was around 4) for 2 hours to go to eat with a friend. I called from restaurant to check on them, ordered take out for my son, he said everything was fine. I got home shortly after, to find my son passed out from an overdose of xanax and other drugs.
He had to go by ambulance to hospital,have his stomach pumped. But this was once AGAIN, not his fault he claimed.
Witsend- Did you notice anything when your child was younger to indicate S behaviors? I dont think I ever did. He seemed sensitive and was pretty close to me- always taking him places with NO behavior problems. He played well with other kids without being a bully. I guess if there were any signs, I may have missed them but nothing alarming stands out.
SOS –
I would say that it is not as common as is often stated by some. Anti-social behaviors are often called psychopathy when in fact they are not. There was a recent article that had the following comments from Hare:
Experts say they see this played out to some extent among adults in prisons where criminals, most of whom are “sociopaths” who, unlike psychopaths, have a conscience, often grew up in harsh environments characterized by factors such as abuse, deprivation or gang violence that seem to play significant roles in shaping their attitudes and influencing their behaviors. Psychopaths might also have had unhappy home lives, but in what seems so inexplicable, they can come from stable homes, too, suggesting more of a genetic influence in these latter cases.
and this:
“The majority of criminals would meet the criteria for antisocial personality disorder but only 10 to 15 percent meet the criteria for psychopathy,” says Hare, who developed widely used psychopathy checklists for determining whether adults and juveniles as young as age 12 show psychopathic tendencies. Gang members, for instance, who kill or steal for their group might be viewed as people with antisocial personality disorder, or sociopaths. But unlike psychopaths, they may truly love and would never hurt their own families, and they also may feel guilt or remorse about their crimes.
So if you go by that there is help and treatment available for those that are not psychopaths.
But there is no treatment that will work, regardless of the diagnosis, if the person receiving the treatment does not want it to work.
Blogger- Thank you for your information, as well as helping SOS, it was beneficial to me as well. My son grew up in stable middle class home , although divorced parents, but with what most would consider privaleged. His step dad raised him with me from 2 years old and was for all practical purposes his real dad with lots of love and attention. However, In thinking back, his bio father is a suspected S.
Explaining the possible genetic connection.
Witsend- Housie and I have blogged more details on NEW LIFE thread re: sociopathic sons. If you’d like to join or read more.
Blogger- I might add, his step father was not a S so he didnt have “learned behaviors” as he had little to no contact with his bio dad.THen when his step dad and I divorced (he was about 15) his step dad continued to be huge part of his life, moved 1 mile down the road ,and my son even lived with him until recently.
Thanks BloggerT7165,
My personal experience with sociopathy or APD involves cases which were observable from a very young age, or evolved from difficult circumstances such as tough ’hoods or abusive parenting. I’m fairly clueless about the teenage onset, not to mention, clueless about why schizophrenia seems better understood than sociopathy. But I’m open to force-feeding conscience growing medications… 🙂 …they’ve done worse with criminal convicts.