The Society for the Scientific Study of Psychopathy met in New Orleans, LA April 16-18, 2009. There were several hot topics discussed at the meeting including how psychopathy might be different in men and women. The general consensus seemed to be that psychopathy is under-diagnosed in women because in women the symptoms are different.
Dr. Edelyn Verona is a, leader in the Society. Her group presented, “An Examination of Borderline Personality Disorder and Secondary Psychopathy Across Genders.” To understand these research findings look at the list of traits below:
Factor 1 Traits (Primary Psychopathy)
• Glib and superficial
• Egocentric and grandiose
• Lack of remorse or guilt
• Lack of empathy
• Deceitful and manipulative
• Shallow emotions
Factor 2 Traits (Secondary Psychopathy)
• Impulsive
• Poor behavior controls
• Need for excitement
• Lack of responsibility
• Early behavior problems
• Adult antisocial behavior
Dr. Verona’s group looked at the relationship between borderline personality (BPD) traits Factor 1 and Factor 2 in women. They stated, “We hypothesized that gender would moderate the relationship between secondary psychopathic characteristics and features, such that Factor 2 would correlate more strongly with BPD in women than in men. We further expected that primary psychopathic characteristics would be negatively related to BPD.”
The first part of their hypothesis turned out to be supported, that is Factor 2 was associated with BPD in both men and women but more so women.
More important though, is that the second part of their hypothesis was not supported. Primary psychopathic features were positively related to BPD and “F2 was significantly more predictive of BPD in high F1 women relative to low F1 women.”
The authors concluded, “In particular, the combination of F1 and F2 seems predictive of BPD in women, but not men. This suggests that psychopathy (which is typically defined as being high on both F1 and F2) is manifested as BPD in women.”
Their conclusions are supported by other studies showing a positive correlation between psychopathy and BPD scores.
I spoke with Dr. Verona about their findings, commenting that many psychiatrists consider BPD to be a mood or anxiety disorder. She answered that the criteria for BPD are not precise enough. A woman with PTSD and/or mood symptoms can be diagnosed with BPD if she is also impulsive. It does not seem fitting to group these women together with psychopathic women, especially since the treatment may be different for those who have mood/anxiety disorders.
What does this all mean for you who have family members or co-workers with BPD? My advice is consider the degree of harm done by the person in the context of Factor 1 and Factor 2 traits. The more a woman or man has BOTH sets of traits, the more dangerous she/he is likely to be.
Dear Sabrina
I am sorry for my delay in responding. I had to work today away from home.
Today was not a good day in regards to my son and it is posted on another thread so I won’t repeat it her again.
I did want to say however that as they say on LF….Same church different pew???? Did I get that right? I think Matt says that alot.
I can relate to much of what you said.
When you went to the court did you file for incorrigible teenager? Is that what it was called?
I was told to do that by by sons psychiatrist. And like you say, I know that my son will hate me for it. And everyone will think it a radical way to deal with what they look at as a “defiant phase”. However those same people that will judge me are offering NO solutions. Other than logic, & reasoning and you and I both know this doesn’t work with these kids.
The fact is that MOST all teenagers can be defiant at times. Most all teenagers KNOW everything, and most teenagers push the rules….This is a phase.
BUT most teenagers also have the ABILITY to respect boundaries, they really WANT consistant rules (even if they say they don’t), And most teenagers you have the ability to reach them if you “time” it right. Maybe not right during the middle of a conflict over curfew time….But they can be reached. They have emotion (sometimes way to much) AND most importantly when you make eye contact with them there IS someone home.
The lack of REAL emotion, the vacancy in his eyes, and the amount of lies and manipulation, lack of any accountability for ANYTHING, and lack of REALITY, anger, etc, that my son displays on a daily basis is not healthy. My son can have THE look of a hardened criminal. Instantly, he can look like that. If he is angry.
As far as I know he has never even been around a hardened criminal to mimic this? So if this is learned behavior, he should win an academy award as he is a very good actor.
He is young in his looks….A young 16 year old. BUT when he shuts down or GOES there…..Its a scarey thing….He doesn’t look young anymore.
I don’t even care what you want to label it to be “politically correct”. I just want to know if that window of opportunity is there to get him help.
It sounds like you were exactly where I am when your son was my sons age. My son never did have a step dad or male father figure in his life. However…..
He does have an older brother (10 years older)….And when he was younger he had a “big brother” from the big brother big sister organization for several years.
Like your son up until about 15 years of age my son did NOT display anything different than most kids his age. He was sensitive and loving and we did have a close relationship. He also seemed VERY receptive to a loving relationship…..
He told his couscelor today he just wants me to leave him ALONE. He wants his teachers to LEAVE him ALONE. He esentually wants the couscelor to leave him alone.
He doesn’t have a problem everyone else has a problem.
I am going to read what is posted under new life…..
When your son overdosed on pills did he ever say that was an attempted suicide? Or if not, what was his take on this…Accidental OD?
.
Sabrina….
Please tell me what thread the sociopathic sons is on I can’t find it…??? Grrrr
Hi Im new here..I am a victim of a true sociopath..she is my coworker. I found out later on that she is one. When I first started working at my work 6 years ago, I had a coworker who warned me about this sociopath..she told me to watch out for her..she’s evil. I didn’t see what she was truly talking about at first..I thought the girl that claimed that she was ..was actually just being a bitch. I hung out with this Sociopath for 5years. Throughout the years..slowly I noticed things..Shes vindictive to other employees..she even had some fired. She would tell me her deepest secrets so I thought but she’s lied..It all went down when She told me she made her husband buy her an expensive RV ..then a purse for 1000. bucks.then a new car..then another dog. I thought how selfish she is because her husband didn’t want to buy all that but he did it to make her happy..But then This is what really got me..She decided to cheat on her husband with her exboyfriend from 20 years ago..Her exboyfriend has terminal Cancer and he’s married and has children. I told her to stay away from him and stay with her loving husband and be good to him..but then she got wierd..she started to stalk the dying ex. I told her she shouldn’t do that.. then she said she was going away to New York because of stress due from her husband ..she wanted to divorce him now ..(he’s a good man and never did anything wrong to her) She then was dumped by the dying ex. She still stalked him for a bit until she met another guy on her stress leave or shall I say vacation? She then slept with this new guy..went back home told her husband she needed to go back east again to visit her granma..but she was actually going back to see the new guy..she finds out that he has a girlfriend..so she stalked him even though he basically told her to get lost cause he chose his girlfriend over her..she stalked him over and over until the new guys girlfriend threatened him.. she stopped for a while ..and now..she has slept with 4different men on match.com after that last guy back east..in the mean time her husband is hurt..devistated because he found out his wife has cheated on him and how he found out was because the new guy back east his girlfriend got the sociopaths number and called her husband. Told him everything. He was soooo hurt..but she the sociopath did not have any feeling about it..she continued to screw him out of alimony and she left him with the kids (thank God) She didn’t want the kids. Her kids were divistated but she says they are horrible spoiled kids that don’t understand that she needs to find herself.. OK
NOW that I told you that part..Finally I realiZe this girl is a sociopath. So I kind of told her that she is not thinking of anyone but herself. She decided to victimize me. She went to my boss and told my boss that Im not to be trusted and that Im a horrible person. Thankfully My boss really likes me and doesn’t care for her. She actually got written up for calling in sick too much. But whats weird, She is so mad at me because I told her how I feel about her sleeping with all these men With NO protection But she’s is acting really nice again to me. But She just told my boss yesterday that I wasn’t to be trusted..She is very vindictive and I know she’s trying to get me fired but It won’t work. I know it won’t. I will outsmart her..I already got a head start. My boss knows everything. This sociopath is a liar. She tells everyone she’s a Registered nurse but she’s not . she’ not a nurse at all. Well its late and Ill be back on tomorrow to see what you all think about her.
I want you all to understand that she really hurt her husband bad and as much as I told her its wrong to leave him when he’s been such a wonderful guy to her and great father. she says I haven’t walked in her shoes. And the saddest part is her kids. They are so mad at her but she says she did nothing wrong. and sleeping with all these men with no protection? She actually slept with a family member of a patient in the parking lot the first night she actually talked to the guy. The one good thing is that her husband did get the house and the kids. She never fought for them and she never will. She did want the house though gladly she didn’t. She does wants half of everything he owns..I feel so bad for him. When men have dumped her..she would get that glazed look in her eye scary. She would text them like crazy..she was so mad that the dying exboyfriend was in church instead of talking to her on the phone.She actually cursed God. One thing I forgot tomention is that she is an alcoholic..she drinks a lot. Plus she takes anitdepressants but how often I don’t know. I never saw her really show any kind of emotion about anything..if anything she would fake tears. one day she was crying about my bird dying but something starteled her..she jumped out of it instantly with the words “hey I gotta go My guy is calling me” Call you later
Now Im wondering what is her next move. Everyone at work is scared of her from her history of vindiction towards many.
oh wow I forgot another sign I found that she is a sociopath..she’s a sex addict. She says she wants a guy to have good sex with and nothing more..she actually gave a longtime friend a proposal ..sex and no strings attached. He turned her down ofcourse. He has a girlfriend..she told me that she doesn’t care if a guy is married or has a girlfriend she says that its not her problem..but its the girlfriends problem. I don’t know any girl that wants to have sex as much as she does. Its crazy. Everything that IVe told you when it comes to the cheating all started about 6 months ago. Before that, she was always saying how happy she was in her marriage. Until she saw her ex. Ok ive said tons here..Thanks for reading
HI Slappster:)x Welcome to love fraud.
I hope you are doing things to distance and protect yourself from this woman. People on here have mentioned that it is important that you don’t let on that you have her ‘number’, it could put you in the firing line, what ever she ‘IS’ is not important – just quietly STEP AWAY from the dangerous creature!:)x
[This has made me think – there is something that keeps nagging at me when i hear about people describing their S/P’s with alcohol and drug addictions, sex addictions, promiscuity. The alcohol does not maketh the sociopath, the sex addiction does not, being a promiscuous person does not?… I would not want to write someone off as a sociopath just because the had a drink problem, or had a high libido … my s/p displayed all of these traits though… I need to read more to get my thoughts straight about all this and where it all fits in – thank for the food for thought]
Dear Slapster,
you X-friend (co-worker) sounds like she displays many traits of a personality disordered person, or “cluster B”–there are several different varities of “personality” disorder as well as there being some contention about the “names” for them, but none of that really matters, she is definitely TOXIC and seems uncaring about her children and her husband.
Since you were warned about her fiove or six years ago it appears that she has been about this kind of behavior for some time and others at work are “on to” her lack of trustworthyness.
Her “sharing” all this information about her activities with you, to me, shows she likes having an AUDIENCE for her bad behavior as well as doing the bad behavior. Quite frankly, I think anyone who was HALF-WAY normal, if they did any of these things, wouldn’t tell ANY ONE, much less tell all of such chaotic bad behavior.
Fighting and “winning” against these people is usually not possible, unfortunately as there is no low to which they will not sink. My suggestion is that you go NO CONTACT with her as much as possible at work and 100% NO CONTACT with her outside of work. Do not take her calls, e mails or texts, and do not speak TO HER OR ABOUT HER.
She may go around tattlling “tales” at work, or other places, but my suggestion on those is to ignore them, and if someone tries to tell you somethign she said or did, just casually, but firmly say “Oh, I really don’t want to discuss that balderdash about ‘Jane said, I said’ it’s not worth my time.” If the person keeps on wantting to talk about it, just look them in the eye and say FIRMLY “I have nothing to say about Jane or TO jane. Period.”
I know sometimes this is difficult when they are trying to “pick a fight” or are “gossiping” about you, but taking the “high road” if at all possible will be lthe ultimate WIN!
Welcome to love fraud, learn more about these creeps, KNOWLEDGE=POWER and the more you know the easier it is to protect yourself from getting involved with them in any way! again, Welcome.
thank you ..you are so right..unfortunatly I have to see her everyday and take report from her. But I keep it strictly business. she tried to ask me how I was doing and such but I kept it simple and said Im fine. I know how she works. SHe is aggressive..she believes her own fears to be real. I have to see her today. but thankfully only for 30 min.
blueskies:
Alcoholism, drug addiction and sex addiction are two different things entirely from being a psychopath. Needless to say, the statistics for being a psychopath would HAVE to be higher for all three types of people.
Unfortunately, from what I have experienced and seen in my short little life, a sober, straight psychopath is ten million times more dangerous than a drunk or drugged one. They are alert, intelligent, cunning, patient and much more unpredictable. They usually live their life without being found out. The rooms of AA and NA and SA are full of them. And I mean FULL.
Tilly, I was reading some research DNA stuff today and there is a DNA “marker” that seems (has not yet been “proven”) to mark for SEVERE ALCOHOLISM AND PPD. I thought that was an interesting thought, maybe all those “dry drunks” are the WORST of the WORST that are still making it in the free world (i.e. not in prison). I’ve been reading some interesting things on the research of Dr. Kent Kiehl (New Mexico) and some of his research on convict PPDs, convict non-PPDs and non-convicts matched for IQ, education etc with the convict NON-PPDs and using MRI scans of the brains. He is seeing some big differences in the brain’s activities and the way it is made up. Still NO PROOF that is “accepted” that you could just MRI them and “diagnose” but he is hoping that at some point a drug will be found to target those specific areas of the brains in order to diminish their acting out behavior. It would be a godsend if he could do such a thing.
There are also concerns too, of if you could “diagnose” them as “brain abnormal” are they still “responsible” for their behavior legally?
The current research going on about psychopathy (one site said that it has only a little bit of money compared to other mental problems that cause much less “problems” for society) is very interesting to me. Wish i could come back in 100 years and see what all they have found out!
Too late to help most of us thought. LOL