The Society for the Scientific Study of Psychopathy met in New Orleans, LA April 16-18, 2009. There were several hot topics discussed at the meeting including how psychopathy might be different in men and women. The general consensus seemed to be that psychopathy is under-diagnosed in women because in women the symptoms are different.
Dr. Edelyn Verona is a, leader in the Society. Her group presented, “An Examination of Borderline Personality Disorder and Secondary Psychopathy Across Genders.” To understand these research findings look at the list of traits below:
Factor 1 Traits (Primary Psychopathy)
• Glib and superficial
• Egocentric and grandiose
• Lack of remorse or guilt
• Lack of empathy
• Deceitful and manipulative
• Shallow emotions
Factor 2 Traits (Secondary Psychopathy)
• Impulsive
• Poor behavior controls
• Need for excitement
• Lack of responsibility
• Early behavior problems
• Adult antisocial behavior
Dr. Verona’s group looked at the relationship between borderline personality (BPD) traits Factor 1 and Factor 2 in women. They stated, “We hypothesized that gender would moderate the relationship between secondary psychopathic characteristics and features, such that Factor 2 would correlate more strongly with BPD in women than in men. We further expected that primary psychopathic characteristics would be negatively related to BPD.”
The first part of their hypothesis turned out to be supported, that is Factor 2 was associated with BPD in both men and women but more so women.
More important though, is that the second part of their hypothesis was not supported. Primary psychopathic features were positively related to BPD and “F2 was significantly more predictive of BPD in high F1 women relative to low F1 women.”
The authors concluded, “In particular, the combination of F1 and F2 seems predictive of BPD in women, but not men. This suggests that psychopathy (which is typically defined as being high on both F1 and F2) is manifested as BPD in women.”
Their conclusions are supported by other studies showing a positive correlation between psychopathy and BPD scores.
I spoke with Dr. Verona about their findings, commenting that many psychiatrists consider BPD to be a mood or anxiety disorder. She answered that the criteria for BPD are not precise enough. A woman with PTSD and/or mood symptoms can be diagnosed with BPD if she is also impulsive. It does not seem fitting to group these women together with psychopathic women, especially since the treatment may be different for those who have mood/anxiety disorders.
What does this all mean for you who have family members or co-workers with BPD? My advice is consider the degree of harm done by the person in the context of Factor 1 and Factor 2 traits. The more a woman or man has BOTH sets of traits, the more dangerous she/he is likely to be.
Oxy:
If I don’t take the class this semester and have to do it with her next..you know I will be in for it, so I just wouldn’t. Can she keep on her mask for the whole of round three? especially since it slipped off last time? She will be ten times more vigilant.
Tily, the only thing I can say is that once I had to take a temporary job in a location with the hospital that I knew would be temporary, I was working for an N physician and his P wife (she was office manager) it was horrible from DAY !, they treated me and patients like dog doo, I kept on smiling and being “sweet” and kept my REAL opinions to myself, I just kept saying inside my head “this is a game” IT IS TEMPORARY, I CAN DO IT, IT ISN’T FOREVER, I WONT’ LET THEM STAND IN MY WAY—I CAN TAKE IT.
Yes, it was a stressful 3 months that was over 15 years ago. This man has been outed by his peers as a jerk, andhis wife who has now advanced to over ALL the rural clinics and has spread pain, grief and despair where ever she went still reigns supreme with the powers that be, but everyone under her knows what a hateful person she is.
Several times, her husband has been severely EMBARASSED for mistreatinig staff, in fact, he was embarassed so badly a year and a half ago that they actually sold his practice and left that town. Interestingly enough, they tried to get him into another clinic and were STOPPED because the physician working there knew about them (partly from me and also from Mrs. P being the clinic administrator) so even with all of mrs. P’s power, she was not able to save her husband’s face.
They may never get what is really coming to them, but you know what, they haven’t skated “scot free” either.
I was able to survive those miserable 3 months by just talking myself into it. It WAS difficult, the same way it was difficult to get through that one semester with a woman I knew was a first class WITCH *(now I know P) but looks to me like you might be able to give it a try, and worst case, “drop” the class because of your “health” or something if it gets too bad. ((((hugs))))
Hi, Tilly!
I’m Betty, that Oxy mentioned. The post is link is http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/03/04/letters-to-lovefraud-she-turned-into-a-snarling-spitting-monster/
Your situation is far more hopeful than mine, because you are armed with knowledge from LoveFraud and you have thought out dealing with n/p/s people very well. I didn’t know what I was dealing with, and acted out of ignorance. As Oxy says, “Knowledge is Power.”
I could not break through the professor’s wall of dupes at the uni – she’s been there 30 years, and done a very good job of enlisting even the dean, so that all complaints about her circle right back to her. You try to make even a complaint, and find you can’t.
Someone has listened to you, and that’s so good. Just keep your guard up: I can’t emphasize enough how much universities seem to be hot beds of gossip. Maybe it’s different where you are; but here, one must “keep it professional” — just as if you were at work.
I lost a lot in my encounter. I’m still in job search, and have massive student debts for a degree I didn’t get. When I can eventually take a master’s, it will be at a uni that offers off-site courses via computer, so I don’t have close contact with the instructor. That’s where this has left me — I can do the work, but I won’t deal with their personal dramas again. I still have PTSD, and last week, I woke up screaming like a grade-B movie queen, but it wasn’t funny — I was in the grip of terror. Our bodies do tell us off BIGtime when we’re staying in a place that’s bad for us.
I hope you have great success — you’ve received solid feedback and advice — and here’s hoping you continue to kick tush and take names at school! It will be my pleasure to dance the Happy Dance with you here at LoveFraud when you graduate!
Take good care of you. Good Luck.
Very best wishes!
Betty
tonight was a bit better. My manager agrees with me that my coworker is a true sociopath. The sociopath didnt say one word to me. She actually chose to work in the front station rather than the back..so I didnt have to take report from her. But tomorrow is another day with her and I will have to take report from her. I think she knows That she can’t screw up right now at all. She’s already on a written warning from the managers.
Oxy and Betty:
Thankyou so so much for caring enough to be there for me on this one. ” I saw a self-possessed, controlled and controlling, smooth, charming, poised academic turn into a snarling, spitting monster within literally a second. ” Yep! THATS HER!! Thats when she dropped the mask and got told there was no work left for her at the moment. But God has sent her back into my life to make the choice. Round three. Will I go back into the ring? I promised myself the first semester I wouldn’t. I promised myself the 2nd semester I wouldn’t. Of course it was ten times worse than previously. The other teacher will “enable ” her…not “moderate” her.
If I pull out half way thru the semester I will be failed. I have two weeks to decide whether to stay in her class. You can bet her first three classes will be the charming, funny, open minded teacher she acts so well. After that it will be all a nightmare.
Am I up to the task? Definitely not. But as Oxy says, I am going to give it a try. Maybe I can stay under the radar for half the semester and kiss her a#se for the rest. Worst case scenario is I will fail by pulling out half semester and have to do it again some other day. One things for sure Betty :
I will NEVER be on my own with her, or accept an invitation to go ANYWHERE within a hundred miles of her home or her letterbox or her dog!!
LUV YUS!! (((HUGS)))) and THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME!!!
mind you…I could change my mind in a second on this one!
You can do this, Tilly.
There is a possible silver lining here.
This might be the perfect opportunity to start channelling all of your stess and anxiety about this P instructor into your art work.
You have already done the “Face of God”, right?
This semester sounds like a good time to start working on the “Face of Lucifer”, or the “Face of Hades”, or “Medusa”.
well my “s” coworker struck again. She now moved in on my close friends. And what shocked me yesterday was that she attacked one of my other coworkers that is a friend to me. She tried to get her introuble with the bosses when my coworker had nothing to do with a certain situation with a patients family. Not only did she fly off the roof out loud in front of everyone..she yelled at the family of the patient. Then she askes my coworker who came to work for me while I was a doctors appt, “How come nobody asked me about you working for her” as if she’s some kind of authority? WoW. My problem is I thought my manager understood her since she told me she did..but now..Im finding out that my Sociopath coworker is spending a lot of time in my managers office..joking around and talking , gossiping..this is what others have told me. So now I can’t trust my manager..but I do have someone I know I can trust and she’s strictly by the book..My managers manager. The one I told you all about is my assistant manager..where My main manager is the one everyone knows is by the book. She’s doesn’t gossip and she doesn’t get too close to the employees like my assistant manager. Its nice that she talks to me and tells me what the sociopath said about me BUT how do I know she won’t tell the sociopath what I have said about her? Im starting to really hate my job. Thank God there are more than few people on my floor that know this coworker is a true sociopath.
Dear Slapster,
That’s the thing with them is that they will try and try and try and NEVER GIVE UP and make trouble as long as they are around. I am a retired advanced practice nurse, so I pretty well know what you are talking about. I have dealt with some of the same stuff time and time again—It is difrficult to know who to trust. I wrote up one particular aid for leaving the floor without notifying me (as charge nruse) and be gone for 4 hours time and time again, and NOTHING WAS DONE ABOUT HER. she did not do her job, spent all day on her cell phone arranging her sex life which was forbidden for her to do, but she did in plain sight and the upper management did NOTHING. Finally she was FIRED after months and months of this. The problem is when you ahve a person who is like your co-worker, they make the whole place miserable and make others not only have to work twice as hard, but be unhappy at the same time, and patient care is what suffers most.
My observation is that hospitals and medical clinics are OFTEN a haven for these people and rather than clean house and get rid of these bad employees, the management lets them drive off the good ones. It is a shame. I am sorry I have no answer for what you could do to help yours situation, because I don[‘t. In all my years and years of experience I have never seen any good come out of a situation like this. Sorry, but I definitely can imagine what you are going through. Welcome to my X-world, being retired and away from all this crap is WONDERFUL!!
yea thank you..I just talked to another nurse I work with and she and I both come to realize that there is NOTHING that we can do. One of my friends that was pretty close to me who is also a union rep, well she is now hanging out with the sociopath as well as hanging out in my assistant managers office gossiping. After everything weve agreed on about her being a sociopath,, The sociopath won her over..But thank God I have another union Rep that is trustworthy. And the main manager that is trustworthy. Hopefully I will find another job soon. I can’t deal with it anylonger. But for now Ill stay low and keep my mouth shut at work. Im sure the sociopath will eventually get fired..she can’t not be a mean person to people. Hopefully it will bite her in the ass sooner than later.