This week “Sarah” commenting on Lovefraud wrote:
What is the biggest difference between Narcissists/Psychopaths/Sociopaths and us? The ability to love!
What is one of the over-riding characteristics of the N/P/S? They are they are extremely jealous & envious and must WIN! We have something they will never have . . i.e., the ability to love.
In the Mask of Sanity, the first book to describe psychopathy, Hervey Cleckley wrote:
The psychopath seldom shows anything that, if the chief facts were known, would pass even in the eyes of lay observers as object love”¦ In a sense, it is absurd to maintain that the psychopath’s incapacity for object love is absolute, that is, to say he is (in)capable of affection for another ”¦ He is plainly capable of casual fondness, of likes and dislikes, and of reactions that, one might say, cause others to matter to him. These affective reactions are, however, always strictly limited in degree. In durability they also vary greatly from what is normal in mankind. The term absolute is, I believe, appropriate if we apply it to any affective attitude strong and meaningful enough to be called love, that is, anything that prevails in sufficient degree and over sufficient periods to exert a major influence on behavior.
In my opinion, perhaps the only flaw in our current measures of “psychopathy” is their failure to assess “ability to love.” Fortunately, that may soon change thanks to Donald Lynam, Ph.D. , Professor of Clinical Psychology at Perdue University. In his presentation, Interpersonal Antagonism as the Core Feature of Psychopathy Dr. Lynam presented evidence that inability to love is at the core of psychopathy.
I have long admired Dr. Lynam’s work, and his rather renegade status in the world of psychopathy research. During his presentation, I sat next to an accomplished psychopathy researcher, who has become a friend. After Dr. Lynam finished, I offered a public thanks to him for his presentation and brought up the issue that no one else is trying to measure and assess “ability to love” in psychopaths. The researcher sitting next to me said “You can have him as your Guru if you like, but there are problems with his work.” I did not ask my friend to elaborate because I already knew why he said that.
Dr. Lynam has challenged the status quo of psychopathy research because he says, “Factor analysis of the PCL-R (the most widely used rating scale) are unlikely to reveal the core personality components of psychopathy.” His making that statement at the SSSP meetings is kind of like a minister at a meeting of Southern Baptists saying that The Bible doesn’t necessarily have all the answers for modern humans.
Dr. Lynam says (and I very much agree) that if you analyze the PCL-R to understand “the psychopath” you run into circular arguments. How do we know this person is a psychopath? Because he/she has a high PCL-R score. How do we know the PCL-R symptoms reflect the psychopathy personality type? Because they belong to “psychopaths” as identified by the PCL-R. The way to get around these circular arguments is to separate diagnostic measures from personality measures. This is what Dr. Lynam has done.
The most accepted model of general personality posits five basic traits called the Big Five (OCEAN: Openness, Conscientiousness, Extraversion, Agreeableness, Neuroticism). Dr. Lynam has studied these traits in relation to psychopathy and he has found that “low agreeableness” explains a majority of individual differences in PCL-R scores. That means that the core of psychopathy is explained by low agreeableness.
What exactly is low agreeableness? Agreeableness has 6 parts to it: trust, straightforwardness, altruism, compliance, modesty and tender mindedness. The items on this list reflect a person’s tendency toward intimacy, needs balancing (ones own needs vs. other’s needs) and caretaking of others; core components of ability to love. Dr. Lynam also mentioned briefly that these are more than personality traits and instead seem to reflect “an ability.” I wrote about love as a developmentally acquired “ability” in Just Like His Father? nearly three years ago, and am glad to see this given more attention by scientists.
After I commented praising Dr. Lynam’s work, another researcher stood up and said, “There’s just something about this that bothers me”¦ my gut tells me it is off”¦ If psychopaths lack agreeableness, why do other people find them attractive?”
I talked with that researcher in private afterwards. Consider Dr. Cleckley’s statement about love and psychopathy. Since psychopaths appear to have fondness and affection, their inability to love is often hidden behind their “Mask of Sanity.” It is only when you really get to know them and you put yourself in a position of depending on them that you discover the importance of their inability to love. This is where victims have wisdom and understanding that many psychopathy researchers will never attain.
For more on Dr. Lynam’s work see: Are they just evil people?
Wini:
Your comment about talking to people about S’s is spot on!
My family abandoned me for the S and all his cons. He would show up at their house in another state and cook fabulous meals….to gain supply. They all turned into food whores along with his ‘whore’…. It was sickening to me to be abandoned by my own family during a major illness and divorce.
I tried to show them the truth, and throughout the years I was married to the S there was plenty of red flag behaviors they witnessed and questioned, but now chose to ignore. He had them believing I was faking cancer! How bizaar was that! He said I was mentally Ill instead…..so they all ran as far as he would take them.
My children and I were in great need of support and not only did they not support us on any level, they hindered us by feeding him information and support via supply.
WELL…..last week i got a call……it is suspected he broke into my family’s home and stole some items. All things he has currently. It was made to look like a true burglery, but what was taken was obviously needed and wanted by him.
NOW they are wanting to talk to me. I am so angry with them and I expressed my anger and the reality of all we have gone through…they seemed mortified.
BUT….it was only when THEY WERE VICTIMIZED did they wish to gain info. We were now in the same boat.
I think for most people, it’s just way to overwhelming to put their minds around. It’s usually SO outlandish, our stories and pain are questionable.
I also think that Sociopathy is portrayed as something only KILLERS have. And then there is Psychopathy…..that’s only something a movie is made of.
Too harsh and portrayed as something none of us know or have present in OUR lives in small town America.
I think it would help if the media did shows showing the non killing S or P. So the everyday human can relate on a downhome level, to see what WE live with.
I believe it’s all about raising awareness and educating society.
We are all touched by S’s in our lives at some point or another.
Aeylah Ditto on the addiction thing – be it love booze drugs or sex. And we that fight daily to keep our self esteem out of the gutter have to look at the cause and reason of that low self esteem before we can really begin to heal. Numbing ourselves with past behaviors and patterns – like another toxic love addiction – only keeps us low – I think most of us that end up here at lovefraud know that we must stop the madness and take a hard look at our futures. Whats out there? How do we find it? If we look too ourselves we are half way there. Some of us struggle so hard to overcome our past. How do we do that? Start from scratch and stop the addictions and patterns that keeps us standing still. Good post aeylah
Kindheart:
All the above advice is great…..
Here’s my 2cents.
My GF’s say I am a ’23 year old virgin’. I was with my ex S for almost 3 decades and never dated anyone else. Put that way, with an ‘adult’ mind….that scared the crap out of me to date. My head would like the companionship (my body too at times), but not having the confidence in myself to guarentee that I won’t land up with another S….keeps me from looking. I am spending this time learning about myself and what it was in ME that I was okay being treated and sucked in like I voluntarily did.
I know I am a great person. I do have a desire to trust again. I do want to be in a happy relationship at some point in my life, I have a lot to offer…..But I AM NOT READY NOW!
It also helps knowing that I’m in the middle of my divorce and consumed….what the heck do i have to talk about. How I did recon, what I dug up and that I was divorcing a S and have an extended order of protection??? That makes good first date stories!
So take the time for YOU….whatever time YOU need. Stay away from unhealthies…..As I say “shake it up girl” Meaning change your surroundings and allow yourself to do and attract people into your life you never would before. Then…..learn from them too. Take notes from people in your life that are healthy thinkers….what you admire about them…..and walk the walk.
Good luck, your looking for help……your heading in the right direction!
Interesting question? What to look for first?
A inability to love or
Their nature of manipulation and exploitation
I would also have to go with Matt’s comment on this one.
These people are great actors and can fake emotions like love. But one can see their nature of manipulation and exploitation not only with us but also those that they know or should I say have known.
There would be a clear pattern of this type of abuse with family members friends and business partners. Being manipulative and being able to exploit others also means not caring for these same people. If we love someone or even care about them it’s harder to exploit them without the aftereffect of guilt and shame. So if one does and/or has the ability to manipulate and exploit others that in itself show us they lack the ability to love bond with others. Or is this too much rationalization on my part?
Anyway, both of these traits (manipulation and exploitation} would be something they would be proud of so therefore would slip up and talk about telling someone how they “put the bag over” that person. What does the bible tell us? “Pride cometh before a fall“.
Thanks Henry. It takes a tremendous amount of self reflection to see how and why we stay addicted to anything and attract sociopaths into our lives.
Co dependance is one character trait that I identify with. It’s part of the caring, nurturing and foregiving part of the personality, and in doing so we try to “fix” the S ….as we all know this is impossible to do, but in the co-dependant characteristic we are putting too much energy focusing on their behaviour, because in doing so you displace the energy from looking at your own behaviour and issues.
also agree with Matt, James and all others who post here and who have articulated so well the S inability to love and be exemplerary actors at it.
on of my favorite statements and tests for truth and honesty…especially when someone like our S claims love is
“actions speack louder than words”.
Dear Kindheart,
At this point in time, sweetie, I would DISTANCE COMPLETELY myself from anyone who is NOT HEALTHY….if that means you distance yourself from EVERYONE, that is okay too.
People who are alcoholic, druggies, or living disordered lives are TOXIC for you right now.
First, you went around these people (the toxic man and toxic woman) and when they did what THEY DO, verbally attacked you, YOU FOUGHT BACK which = drama “I’m not gonna let this bimbo….ya da ya da” LOOK at what YOU DID, first, you went around someone TOXIC, knowing she was toxic, you MINIMIZED the man’s “problems” (“he’s a great guy, BUT AN ALCOHOLIC) and then when she verbally attacked you, which you KNEW IN ADVANCE SHE WOULD out of her jealousy, you came back at her verbally, risking a fist fight (“I thought she might hit me”) and then JUSTIFIED your behavior in verbally bashing her by saying “after all I had done to try to help her.”
Kindheart, this is typical PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE behavior on YOUR PART. Putting youself in a situation that is going to explode then trying to justify why you did it.
To some extent all of us here have done some of these things, but LEARNING TO RECOGNIZE that “good guys” are NOT also alcoholics, drug addicts, bank robbers, thieves, con men etc. even if they are “good guys” 99% of the time and the “bad” things only 1% of the time.
RAT POISON is 99% PURE CORN MEAL and only 1% poison, so what does that mean? It means it will STILL KILL YOU.
As long as you continue to associate with these people and to engage in passive aggressive and self destructive behavior, you will not be able to make progress toward healing youself and your life. It means that YOU must make a COMPLETE turn around in YOUR behavior and in YOUR REACTION to these other people. Until you do that, you will never lfeel better….and it isn’t about the ADHD or any medication, it is about HOW YOU ACT. ADHD does NOT “make” you behave this way, you are CHOOSING TO BEHAVE THIS WAY….you need, in MY opinion, to CHOOSE to behave in a healthy way.
I know this is some difficult knowledge to accept, I had to accept this same knowledge but it is the TRUTH….and the truth will set you free, but it most likely will piss you off first.
I am not trying to piss you off but I am trying to make plain the TRUTH. I am speaking to you a truth that may “taste bad” because in order to accept it, you must also accept that YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR BEHAVIOR. ((((hugs))))))
Thanks, Erin Brok and you are right on. I need t venture out of this town and the same haunts i’ve been going to for years, just hard knowing where to head to and find someone willing to go . I don’t mind cruising around alone in my convertible so that’s good but i do oneed to get out of Dodge so to speak. My youngest is coing home tom from Banff alberta so he’ll keep me busy. You are right too, all these people who came into my life after my separation, i never would have been with any of them when married. I just let everyone in and accepted them all , got me into a lot of trouble and heartache. Like you im not remotely interested in men other than for friendship and that’s the problem, have a few int but they always want more. Deep down i think i have intimacy issues myself as the only two i let in were the one i mentioned in earlier post(alcholic but kind) and th e s, i’ve been told it was because they were safe, no chance of relationships with them but i still got my heart slammed with the s . It’s going to take some work figuring out what i want for sure and what made me suceptible to the s, alot of things, my father, childhood, great qualities that worked against me, i am just kind of stuck in a place that is not even comfortable any more. I want to live life i just need to find some things to do. thanks again for your 2cents it’s greatly appreciated. I will keep you posted and if you have any more suggestions as to what to do for excitment let me know kh
Kindheart:
I have a few pennies left from my nickle.
I don’t mean to hammer you,….and like Oxy, I am speaking my truth out of caring.
I think you need to concentrate on YOU….not your desires. What I mean is, you need to ‘shake it up’ from your normal routine. I didn’t mean by that, go to another dig with a different person….I meant REALLY shake it up….Stop going out, spend time by yourself, get to know what makes YOU tick without relying on people and places. Your passing the buck onto those things to provide you happiness, it is an endless chase.
Go on a self impossed quarenteen, read, knit, color or do a home improvement….something you are never likely to have done before. Make yourself reflect on YOU. Clean out every closet in your home, and as you do it think about an area in your life/mind that needs cleaning out and work on that.
I think you are concerned with keeping busy, and I get the impression you are running and dodging.
Boredom is not your enemy.
Go for a drive with the top down…BY YOURSELF! Have a picnic, BY YOURSELF. Shake up your whole routine, for an extended period.
Re-introduce the new and aware you into ‘society’, via small contacts….test yourself conversing with the person at the 7-11 as you get coffee. Do and say things you would NEVER had done….like maybe commenting on someones big smile and letting them know they have brought some sunshine into your day and smile back, see how you feel inside…..I did this to test peoples responses to me and I was so shocked, it was contagious and it grew on me, it brings awareness to our behaviors. (I am not suggesting being a people pleaser, it’s more of a test for your own awareness of behaviors in yourself)
I am becoming the person I want to be, comfortable in myself. I hid behind my S for almost 30 years! Who the hell am I. The best part of my battle, is I hold my head high and I know I am a good person and I genuinly like myself. One of the things I like about ME is I smile and laugh, against MAJOR adversity.
Growth is good, but you must seek it, it will not be handed to you. When you are ready, you will go after it.
Life has a way of churning back at you what you don’t get the first time.
As Henry Ford said: Whether you think you can or think you can’t…..your right.
This may take months, (i’m on 2.5 years) but you must know and like yourself before you can be happy in any relationship (friend, lover, mother, sister etc). You have a good start by exploring your intimacy issues….that will keep you busy for a while. Dig in, feel the pain, work through and you will be amazed at who comes out the other side.
You’ll be hangin in places and with people you currently would never imagine, having the time of your life….with quality and happiness.
It’s all worth the work and wait….IT”S YOU!!!
Have a beautiful day….
Ability to love vs. manipulation/exploitation
Matt & Sarah’s theories are both correct.
Matt is correct in that, as adults, manipulative and exploitative traits are what we should be looking for UNLESS there is a small child in the equation (age 0-5yrs). NOTHING WILL EXPOSE A PSYCHOPATH’S INABILITY TO LOVE FASTER THAN A BABY WITH A PSYCHOPATHIC MOTHER!!
So, Sarah’s theory, ability to love, is what you look for if there is a small child in the equation.
I know this first-hand. My brother’s wife is a psychopath and she has been abusing my niece since birth. I am “Rosalyn” from the post: “When Relatives Suspect Child Abuse”.
hey guys, going through some pain today. Wondering what it is that i wasn’t enough when i know it’s not me, but it still hurts. my life will never move forward if i don’t deal with the pain i know. It hasn’t been that long with the no contact maybe a month but i waffle from reality to illusion and missing and hating. love kh