No contact is of the utmost importance when it comes to recovering from any unhealthy relationship. Why, then, can it be so hard to maintain? How is it that we can do so well for long stretches and then become instant Jell-O with seemingly little warning?
Of the myriad of struggles we may experience during recovery, this seems to be one of the most common snags. The cold reality is that we are going through withdrawal and there is no methadone to ease the pain of this addiction. Making matters worse, each and every time we break it, the clock starts over, feeling worse than we did previously.
However, from experience, I know that we do get to the point where we truly do not care to emotionally interact with our past counterparts. We also genuinely get to the point where their attempts yield little or no emotional response from us. At the same time, I also know that the road to that place can be quite long and challenging.
Recently, I realized that another interesting snafu exists regarding the no contact rule: successful implementation with one individual often does not automatically carry over into other relationships where the same is necessary. Yes, we may pay better attention to various red flags and recognize certain behaviors and know what must be done, but that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily smooth sailing. However, with diligence, we can do it.
How can we fight the urge to talk, text, or write?
1. Examine the feelings causing the need to want contact
Other than in cases where we were so deeply involved that we became “addicted” to our pathological other halves, fear and old habits are two very common reasons we consider re-connecting with our pasts.
Believe it or not, one of my past no contact struggles was prompted by a dinner conversation with someone I had known much of my adult life. Over steak and a Stella (Artois) the nicest man in the world (not a psychopath) revealed that he was interested in a relationship with me. Instantly, the twinge from within took over. “Me?” I asked in a shocked, surprised, and probably fairly horrified voice. “Yes, you. You are beautiful, smart, and strong. What guy wouldn’t want that?”
From there it got fuzzy. I began to sweat profusely and my head began to spin. However, once I got past the shock, I mentally reviewed my past relationship life. The sad fact was that I didn’t think I could be attracted to a “nice” guy (an issue for another article, which, by the way, I now have totally figured out, at least in theory, even if not in practice.)
So, what did I want? Why did a nice person make me long to reconnect with someone I have absolutely no business being with? Much like a dieter looking for a cheeseburger, I wanted to travel back in time to something that felt more comfortable; I longed for an unhealthy relationship where I could give, give, and give some more, while only receiving small amounts of reciprocity along the way.
Being a “fixer,” giving more than I get comes naturally, but it shouldn’t and fear of the unknown and desire for familiarity should not be the driving force behind contact, especially when the outcome would not yield satisfying results. Thus, just because it’s comfortable, doesn’t mean we should return to it.
I resisted.
2. Examine what happened after the previous communications….and there probably were previous communications
It is likely that prior attempts did not work or we wouldn’t be here. No good can come of making contact with someone who either does not want it with us, is just not that into us, or is pathological. Therefore, we must examine our motives. What do we hope to achieve from our communication? Unless the answer is more heartache or irritation, which will send us reeling and feeling terrible, we should not do it.
How many times have we poured our hearts out and offered explanations for things not working if we wanted to make peace with an ex or ex-interest? How many times have we tried to explain “just one more time,” for some semblance of closure?
We are famous for owning everything; the things we should take responsibility for, as well as those we should absolutely not! They know this. It takes most of us concerted efforts to stop that…and we should stop it. Although counterintuitive, it will bring us to a better emotional place, as we take control of our own peace.
When I thought about all of this, I resisted.
3. Review “old material.”
Most of our counterparts assume we have short memories. In some ways we do, but not always. For most of us, it is in our nature to try to see the good in others and forgive. Many of us have also endured such extreme trauma that we block quite a bit out. However, for those of us who are savers of correspondence, it helps to resurrect what we have. It’s like relationship Soduko.
When last I felt weak over a past connection, I wanted to text to say something…anything, exactly what I didn’t know. I spent the better part of two hours talking myself out of doing so. While my heart and rational brain dueled like two pianos in a night club, I pulled up his name in my phone. Fortunately, I am not one to delete much, so I scrolled to the last break-up conversation (there are a few) and read what he had written. Needless to say, I put the phone down. There would be no text from me.
I decided that I did not really care for how he spoke to me in those texts. I re-visited the feelings the silent treatment that followed evoked. There was a time when I minimized the words, but not at that moment. The words were mean and I felt empty. I did not care that my reactions to them were not perfect (they were not.) I was able to re-live the experiences in my mind and chose me and my well being.
Likewise, years ago, I felt I needed reassurance that my decision to enlist no emotional contact with another individual was warranted. While years of experience should have been enough, the volumes of past e-mail and the journals I kept were what really told the tale. “Normal” was not part of the equation. The pathology in that correspondence was like graffiti on a wall and the ability to see the big picture, a written gift.
With that, I continued to resist.
4. Examine the situation objectively
What would you tell your girlfriend to do if she came to you for advice, assuming the tables were turned? If the answer is run, resist contact.
This goes hand in hand with using old material. We can pull from past conversations and experiences, re-examining the negative feelings those situations created, and acknowledging the red flags we noticed throughout our relationships. We should try to trust in our initial reactions to them. If we felt hurt before, they will hurt again once re-opened. It helps to step outside ourselves and recognize our own worth and beauty, just as we would a friend’s.
When I thought about how I’d counsel my bestie, I resisted.
5. Give it time
Sit on your desire to initiate contact for at least one week or some other extended period of time. It’s a good idea to use this time to think about all of the potential consequences. The wait will probably be worth it.
Isn’t this difficult? Trust me when I tell you, this goes against every fiber of my being, but the wait time will clear us for the option and allow us to choose what’s best for us, which is probably resisting.
What about when they dangle the carrot and casually contact us first?
Resist. Truly. Resist. Depending upon the circumstances, we may or may not choose to respond. Just as we did above, when we were thinking about initiating contact, we must ask ourselves what we hope to achieve by answering them, as well as what the consequences could be for either. If it is a communication that does not require a response or would send us backwards, we should let it go. If we choose to respond, keep it short and unemotional. If we cared or care more than they do, we are the ones at risk for becoming emotionally entangled again.
There is always the possibility that the contact may be legitimate, unless, of course, the person truly is pathological, which may or may not be the case. Regardless, if they tell us they are thinking about us or they miss us, they may. We may actually be on their minds. Truthfully, however, it probably means nothing near what we tend to turn it into.
Typically, when they make contact, they are merely “fishing” to check in on our emotional states. Our reactions act as barometers. Therefore, we should guard what we give back. We may truly no longer care, we may be full-on acting, or we may legitimately be somewhere in the middle. But that’s ours to know.
What do we want for the long haul?
So…we had a bad experience or two. That’s ok. What matters is that we part with a clearer picture of what we see for our futures. How do we want to feel and what are we willing to tolerate? No contact helps us stay the course.
While various things will undoubtedly wreak havoc with our desire to maintain no contact, understanding the roots of our struggles and using our tools can be incredibly helpful. Be strong, friends, and if you falter, know that it’s ok to re-set the clock, but also allow yourself extra care while dealing with the challenges that go hand in hand with that re-set.
Above all else, know that the day will come when the urge to re-connect will disappear for good. If the need repeats itself with another individual, use what you know as empowerment. If we were successful once, we can be successful again. Always learning, always improving.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Yes. . . . Somewhat confusing, but I get the point. If we have any sense of accountability at all, if we are responsible at all, we see honestly that we have some narcissistic traits. And we say, f– you, I’m a self-respecting, imperfect person, and that’s perfect. Exactly what this “quiz” is saying. We have, horror-of-horrors, an “ego.” It even causes us to see ourselves in a mirror and like what we see sometimes. So sue us.
The scary part for me is, the upside-down-ness of the whole thing has become so accepted in this culture that the true narcissists not only parade around as non-narcissists (hence answering “no” to the whole list of narcissistic traits in the quiz), but they infiltrate churches, spiritual organizations, “healing” professions (which I actually think are legitimate), and say things like, “This is constructive criticism, for your own good.” So that even being that person who takes constructive criticism means you’re target practice for these goons. They sound so convincing, having, of course, mastered their own “egos” and “narcissism.” The anti-narcissism movement has become a haven for secret narcissists!
I’ve come to say, point-blank, “Up Yours.” I’m really not a nice person anymore. Seriously, a bitch. And, in some circles, a celebrity. (So sue me: I’m a Narcissistic Famous Person, in the age of everybody’s Internet-mediated “15 minutes of fame.”) Ironically, I got to be this admired person (an egotist!) by just calling b.s. on everybody who works this crap. It only brings on more anguished cries, of course, more deep analysis of just what’s wrong with me.
Screw ’em.
Oh, I love my sociopath so much. Then I tell myself: I love what I *thought* he was. I review old material. I tell myself to wait a little before contacting him. It works. Yes, but it comes and goes. Sometimes we are more vulnerable. Every case is different, but when he emails me, I usually write back, but with a certain delay, and showing no emotion. I’ve noticed he’s been doing what this article says: testing the waters. So, it’s important to be strong. But sometimes I still think I may be wrong, he may not be a sociopath, he may be the love of my life. Then I leave it in th hands of God.
I gotcha.
Try remembering your spath from the day your mom brought her home from the hospital. All cute and stuff. Clever and actually ethical sometimes. WIth a cutesy name like Sally or Susy. And you have good memories, really you do. That where-did-that-come-from wit.
I try to acknowledge that none of that was a lie. It was all true.
The problem is, it just isn’t true ANYMORE.
sistersister
EXACTLY. Cute before they came into their own.
Once they started the “freewill” thing, they chose how they interpret what you say, they chose their response, they chose the script in their head. And they chose a path that was not complimentary to yours. It’s incongruent. It’s not just a different path, it’s a path that takes no prisoners, it’s so destructive that all in the path are rendered into it’s victims, even if they don’t know they are wounded until later…
That “freewill thing” is hooey, in my sister’s case, in my opinion. I don’t believe she had a choice at some point, because nobody responded earlier in her life. They missed the signals. I don’t even blame her, really.
But go back to talking to her? Not a chance.
Because it’s MY choice whether I want to allow that into my life.
In my opinion, obsessing over that choice the other person didn’t exercise is a waste of time. I’m the one with the choice.
Dear healthylady,
I could not agree more with what you have said. Especially that bit about thinking he may not be a sociopath, he may be the love of your life. I think the same but I recognise with me there was an large part of my continued ‘relationship’ with my psycho that saw it as a challenge-the biggest of my life- and I think I confused that with ‘love’. It wasn’t.
As you said “I leave it in the hands of God”. But I think the problem is with me…because I don’t WANT him to be the love of my life…. even if God does! (no offence meant with flippancy healthylady)!
The other day I got called out in a group setting for “trying to look good.” And I hit the pause button on it, wondering if it perhaps were true.
While I hit the pause button, reserving my right to respond negatively if I thought it fit, another group participant chimed in and “called” this person on the “way” he called me out. In effect, he got called out for calling me out.
And I listened as this second person said to the first guy, You could have said it like, “You are getting better at not trying to look good,” indicating that I still had a way to go but I was doing better.
The first person apologized, and I thought that was weird. Because I’m perfectly capable of telling him he’s full of shit. Really. If I want to, I will. I told him I never thought he didn’t “respect” me, oh no. I was being kind and, actually, honest. Nobody has to “respect” me, because I’m capable of responding to an insult if I want to.
The thing is, I think he’s full of shit, both for the calling-out AND the apology. Who the fuck cares? Really? And the second guy is being just as smarmy for supposedly rescuing me.
How’s that for bitchy? Do I get a prize yet, or burned at the stake for “bitchcraft”?
Because so what? I try to look good. And I also let it go sometimes too. Not even worth mentioning. I’m normal, for crying out loud.
THIS is what we’ve come to. Aren’t you nauseated, just reading this thing? I’m sick just writing it. Do I really live in this soup? I just fuckin’ WOKE UP, yo. I’m gonna go live SOMEWHERE ELSE. As one able writer put it, Transport my butt to a solar system where justice doesn’t get mixed up with justification.
sistersister
Sometimes we call other people out (rescuing you) because we didn’t get that when we needed it. And sometimes we need to be told… “HEY, a little grace here! You can say the same thing in a kinder tone.” (also something we need to hear sometimes!) That’s part of the messy process. Yep. Messy is normal! But while we share common aspects from being snagged by the disordered, our journey of recovery is distinctly our own. NORMAL! Ha! Yes. SisterSISTER! We are NORMAL, even our disagreeable bits! (you have a long way to go to get to the true realm of bitchy, but I get your point.)
So I guess you’re saying this guy who wanted to be my rescuer didn’t get that himself. Interesting. Still not my problem.
The thing about our culture these days that really, really bugs me is that nobody just responds. They don’t just say, Nope, I see it differently. Oh no. That would be “defensive.” That’s against somebody’s “rules.” I don’t give a flip about their rules. Rules are what spaths — and “nice people” (same thing) — invoke to get consistent responses out of others. What if I want to respond differently? Sure, if what I truly object to is their “tone,” I’ll let them know that. But usually, I’m just lying to myself; all I want is for my needs and facts to be heard, even if they don’t fit somebody else’s agenda. My guilt over asserting that, being constantly slapped down for it, just attracts more spaths. The really dumb kind, if you ask me. Y’all are getting Son of Sam, I’m getting the trainees.
I was just in a restaurant where some guy literally threatened me for saying something too loudly for his taste. My friend said, “You threatened her.” He said, “No I didn’t.” That’s NORMAL these days. “I screwed you over, but I didn’t really screw you over. That was you thinking I screwed you over when I really love you but you don’t see it.” I’m ready to slug somebody like that before they even get their head out of their butt, where it usually is. I don’t, because that would be “assault.” But it’s verbal violence against me. I spoke too loudly in a restaurant. So what? I don’t get the death penalty for that. People need to listen to themselves do this crap to others, because it’s an epidemic of passive-aggressive violence.
It’s funny, I have a friend who is a retired cop, and he once broke up a training on domestic violence where the trainer was insulting them as insensitive clods, no better than the bums who beat their wives. He said, sarcastically, “Did she deserve it?” It was meant as a joke, of course! These guys are out in the field all day long, responding to calls like that, and responding mostly well by making sure nobody gets killed. He was just commenting on the mentality of these spaths: Everybody DESERVES something, according to them. It’s only because you blah blah blah’d, otherwise I wouldn’t have to hit you, threaten you, show you how not to use the dessert fork for the salad course.
It’s like that in “polite” society now: You screwed up a little, so now I get to hammer you, big time.
dear Notwhatsaidof me…I honestly do not know how to thank you enough for your last post to me.
I had just woken from a nap… in that panic of.. he’s gone… why did I mess up?
and boom… read your post and you have changed my life. thank you.
Sistersister, your post reminded me of a few therapy groups I was in many years ago, and even a few 12-step programs I attended for a short time. I noticed there were a lot of people there who felt the need to “rescue” me. And a few in the groups confronted me about things that didn’t seem to fit or seemed very judgmental. There are a lot of people out there who are working through stuff and they tend to project. I have found that the more I get to know myself, the more I know when it’s a projection. On a positive note, the beauty of groups is that they CAN mirror part of you that you can’t see about yourself. It may not always be in a kind way. I have found that whenever I get any kind of negative or “constructive” feedback, no matter how it’s delivered, I always check with a few people who know me well to see if they think it’s valid. Sometimes there is a grain of truth. I have altered behaviors based on certain feedback – it’s good to remain open to feedback. But that doesn’t mean you have to swallow everything everyone tells you. Often it is about them, and if you ask, “What makes you say that?”, you can find out their underlying motivations/projections. You can also say, “Thanks, I will give that some thought” so you don’t have to just blindly accept the feedback as truth. You can think about it and check it out with other people who know you.
One of the things I’ve noticed is that the more I heal, the happier a group of people I tend to attract. These people give me so much positive feedback and see my good qualities. I find that when I feel seen, it’s easier for me to trust constructive feedback delivered by these people.
The last comment I have on this topic is that even though I don’t know you, I can guarantee you have inner beauty and many great qualities that others can see that you probably don’t even know you have. When you really come to see and know those great qualities in yourself, you will be able to deflect projections more easily. The people you surround yourself with ideally should be reflecting these beautiful qualities back to you. I tend to have trust issues with people, but those who are closest to me generally see my good qualities and remind me of them often. When they tell me they love my energy and that I am very positive, I know they can see some of my inner beauty. This should be the basis for all friendships IMO – that they see your inner beauty, even when you don’t.
Warmly,
Star
The thing is, when we go to “therapy” groups or 12-step groups, we let our guard down. That’s what they’re there for. The trust thing. And I don’t have that anymore. . . . The groups I frequent are very good at telling me about my greatness, too. Then they serve up the “constructive feedback.” I’ve come to stop believing in constructive feedback at all. If I feel uncomfortable with it, I am not “struggling” with my “dark side.” It’s my b.s. detector going off. I don’t struggle with my dark side. I show it. Spaths don’t.
My “constructive feedback” is that I attract people who offer stupid feedback that I secretly believe about myself. I’m going to cut that out.
And regarding “therapy”: Why do we give such people a free pass to walk all over us? When we don’t, they call it “defenses.” Supposedly, they’re all “licensed” and “certified” to do this, because they observe “ethics.” Seriously? I don’t think they do.
If you were riding in a taxi, and the “licensed” taxi driver started driving down the wrong side of the road, you’d get out, right?
If a “therapist” or “coach” drives down the wrong side of your road, YOU’RE the one who gets blamed for feeling endangered. If you feel endangered, it isn’t your “ego” getting in your way. You could be in true danger of being preyed upon, psychically.
I often wonder if “therapy” is just a CIA psyop program. Again, really, truly, Seriously. Because a population that doesn’t own its own selfhood or ability to just get plain-old pissed off is pretty easily manipulated, don’t you think?
sistersister, I don’t know if this is going to make sense but I’ve come to realise something today.
I knew my guy was a psychopath and still stayed with him. I was not afraid of him and to be honest I wanted to punish and hurt him for all the hurt and pain he had caused me last year.
I’ve just realised today, that in order to ‘beat him at his own game’ I ENDED UP BECOMING THE PSYCHOPATH! I only dd it with him. But when I wanted to let rip I did! When I wanted to insult him, tell him EXACTLY how I felt (with bad language and verbal aggression) I did so! I was a prize bitch with him and even if he pointed it out later I didn’t give a f**k because I’d decided (like a psychopath) that his feelings were worthless. I didn’t and (still couldn’t) care less if he was hurt by my words. It was all about me (I even used to say that!).
I find it really horrifying that I was able to develop such cold psychopathic behaviour. I am a confident mature woman, and treat everyone else with respect, kindness, empathy and love. With him I turned into a monster. I wrote a response further up the page earlier which brings me up to date with all this. Basically my Spirit rules! Nothing is going to get in the way of that. Being a psychopath (even if it’s only with him) is NOT my idea of spirituality so the psychopath has to go…and I MEAN BOTH OF US!
Let your spirit guide your actions sistersister. If your actions/words sit well within your heart/soul then carry on and make no excuses! And if there is a Bitch Crown to be won I would have won it!
Not now..I’ve resigned from the competition! YAAAAY!
Stay who you are unless YOU don’t like you!
I kind of went down this road a bit myself with my ex P. I realised that he WANTED me to lower myself to his level, that he was pushing my buttons to get me to act out in that way.
It’s not possible to win going head to head against a spath, because they don’t have morals, boundaries, limits, values; and they are willing to lie, cheat, steal, hurt others. The way to ‘win’ is not to play the game, to rise above, have no contact, act with integrity, and have a happy life. They don’t care, they just move on to the next victim; but that’s better than giving them what they want – becoming like them.
You are totally right when you say they want you to become like them… and in my case that meant doing nothing! He would happily lie around ALL day long, stoned and drunk… no motivation…no interests…no life! I am the opposite. I’m an artist, have friends, love life generally, and I haven’t had an easy life either. I had to ‘fight’ to get him to accept that I needed time to create, think and catch my breath. I am just happy that even after being with him for 2 years, he has never had keys to my flat. I always knew deep down that he would have completely taken over my life and more importantly my mind. And no, he doesn’t have morals or integrity…as he once said to me “I’m not an ex-con…I’m corrupt”. That said it all…. but it took me a while to really understand the gravity of his statement and realise that I would never be able to rely on him unless there was an immediate benefit to him, and that is not the kind of person I want in my life on any level! The bottom line is I’m happier when I don’t see him!
You did a good thing to protect yourself and to maintain some boundaries by not ever giving him a key to your place. You were taking good care of yourself in that way. It shows your strength and that you listened to your intuition. There are probably other ways you protected yourself that will come to your mind as time goes on.
What I’ve come to realise today (lots of clarity on today!!)is that even after everything I’ve said to him as described above…he always forgave it and came back! There is no way on earth I would have done. After the first outburst I would have walked. I used to feel drained and spiritually damaged by my behaviour and would a lot of time reflecting on what was happening to ME – spiritually. I would have to spend days getting back on my track. He on the other had would be contacting me within days if not hours..as though nothing had happened. He said he saw it as ‘just me being me’! The point is…I had never been like that in my entire life with anyone…so it was definitely more a case of me being him! And he is NOT what I want be! For goodness sake…I’m in my 50’s! I haven’t come this far to turn into a total nutter psyscho!!
Consider if he is manipulating you to act like out so that he can run through his ‘forgiving’ cycle. My ex P manipulated me and pushed every button he could to tempt me to act badly.
It has occurred to me that now I’m becoming the spath, not caring what other people feel around me. But really . . . isn’t that their responsibility? My responsibility is to me. A responsibility not to be selfish or mean or unfeeling, but to be who I really am. And who I really am is not selfish or mean or unfeeling. I have an internal compass.
I agree that there feelings are their responsibility sistersister. I too speak my mind. I also want to get ‘feedback’ (hate that word!) but to be honest…if I got ‘feedback’ the way that I have given it (especially to psycho)…I would not appreciate it one bit! In fact I would feel angry. And in a way I think this is what holds people back from giving their opinion of me. My Mum (spath sadly) used to call it ‘treading on eggshells’. I call it knowing my response (direct) would not hold back and they couldn’t take THAT. I think my response to people has often meant they feel too ‘scared’ to speak up especially if it is a criticism! My Mum had to learn how to do that with me. And I have little time for the ‘positive feedback’ either! I’ve come to realise (only this morning) that I don’t believe a word of it. I know what I am. If you know what I mean.
How do I say this? Turn it around. . . .
You attracted those “feedback” leeches into your world, so you see it all the time. And naturally, you hate it. (Everybody does.) You get so sensitive to these attacks over time that you start making others uncomfortable for offering the least bit of a comment. They “walk on eggshells.”
The problem isn’t your defensiveness. Most people would be just as defensive. You have a right to deflect this garbage.
The problem is that you attracted these “feedback” leeches in the first place.
What stories are you telling yourself about your need to “improve”?
How can you attract a better crowd of true admirers?
Ironically, maybe if nobody would even THINK of offering this psycho-b.s. to you — so POWERFUL, not defensive — there would be very little to defend. You’re already a badass!
sistersister I grew up with so much criticism I don’t even know why I should be ‘admired’ in the first place!! I know I have a personal pride in getting thus far…but I don’t know why I would be ‘admired’ by others! But then I am way behind… it took me years to even understand why friends would say “I deserved” good things…let alone believe it. I still can’t get my head around it – it sounds too like privilege to me. But then I have said here already today….I have some work to on myself! And it’s got off to a flying start today thanks to this site and the conversations. Thank you
ifellforapsycho and sistersister,
I want to know a little more about this “bitch” aspect, people who call themselves “bitch”.
Here is my perspective: My sociopath taught me more about the thinking of the worse of society, more than I ever wanted to know. I would call him a bitch sometimes. But because of my “education” by my ex, I know the difference between what I call “bitch” and what people do to stand up for themselves. I have NOT seen someone who is standing up for themselves go out and target someone to destroy their business, their livelihood, poison them so they end up so sick that their lives are shortened and they can not function, and seduce their child and separate them from a relationship with their child.
I think that the difference is the definition. I did not know my ex husband was sociopath back then. I learned about sociopaths later. But I did know he acted like his mother. SHE did these things to people, destroying the security of children, dividing them from their parents, destroyed people’s businesses and livelihoods, took over people’s lives to “help” them, and their lives were shortened. I called her a “bitch” and when I started seeing how my ex was manipulating people and how it destroyed whole families and their emotional and physical health, I called him a “bitch” (sometimes, “son of a bitch” because he literally is the son of her).
That’s why you who have a conscience will NEVER be a “bitch” to me. The fact that you even THINK or reflect about being such a thing shows that you have a conscience, and therefore, might do protective hostile behaviors, but they are PROTECTIVE, they don’t have the singular focused goal of destroying an innocent, vulnerable human being.
Now tell me what makes you say your behavior rises to the level of “bitch”, or even sociopathic? Because I just don’t see it. And if this is my blind spot, then maybe I’d better pay attention.
Nothing about my behavior rises to sociopathic or “bitchy.” Because I have this compass that makes me even ASK if I’m being a spath or a bitch.
Just like that “quiz” I posted. If you pass the quiz 100%, you’re a narcissist.
I have noticed, however, that I do indeed get loud sometimes, doth protest too much. It’ll get more subtle with practice. Just not that used to sticking up for myself!
Thank you for your comments they really made me think! For me the word ‘bitch’ is a bit of a feeble word, used (UK) to donate a woman who will not be controlled by a man! Who defends herself verbally and will not be manipulated. It may even refer to a woman’s sexual behaviour, but it’s still about being out of ‘control’. And it’s even used to describe(women) talking behind someones back (usually other women’s) – even if true. I think it’s laden with sexism. Just look at rappers singing about bitches & ‘ho’s! I don’t think it’s powerful enough a word to describe the mindset that I had to engage in order to overcome my psycho!
I think your explanation of how you define the word is brilliant and I particularly love your expression “protective hostile behaviours” because that is exactly what it was! To be honest I actually did get to the stage of describing myself to psycho as a Ninja…because I am way more effective…. than a bitch… and he knew it!
Thank you for writing this….just another wonderful insight for me to ponder. Today has been full of them…all leading to the same path and destination! And no-I’m not really a psycho either… I just ended feeling like one when I realised I didn’t give a toss about his ‘feelings’!! And I was right because he never felt hurt just angry!
I just want to be a (secret) Ninja from now on…I think it’s accurate and hilarious! After all I’m in my 50’s!
why did I let the psycopath back when I knew what he was?
I was secretly hoping that I was wrong.
hes gone now. Im discarded… but friends and family glad b/c I DID NOT HAVE THE STRENGHT TO DO IT MYSELF B/C OF HIS amazing good looks… bing a 6 foot five firefighter… and the amazing sex. Here… how much more honest and vulnerable can I be. however…
I work with alzhimer’s patience for a living. a music therapist.
I was 3 mins later than usual meeting him b/c some of my residents were having problems and I was trying to help them
he immediately pushed me against his wall.. huge arms around my neck…. I could not breathe… he asked where I had been. He asked it I stopped and gave someone a blow job somewhere! he went into my phone… emails… facebook… took all my passwords. erased all males from my phone. told me I was a whore and a liar.
and I am missing this person?
two nights ago… he was sound asleep… drinks.
a woman texted him at 3:08 a.m.
are you awake bb?
In a loving way…. I called her. It told her he was in my bed. that he was playing us. she gave me names of other girls hes sleeping with… although he told me last monday that he wanted to go to the courthouse this week and marry me!
I told her to please please please… woman to woman… never tell him that I called her. she promised.
she said… are you afraid of him….. I cried and said yes.
I asked her to not tell him.
I was supposed to meet him at a bar last night. I hate bars. He lives there. before I show up.. he calls me… he is sitting with the girl… AND SHE SHOWED HIM HER PHONE LOG…. she told him I said I was afraid he would hurt me!
Yes….. It iwas wrong for me to call her. but… when someone. is telling you love and future… and forever but he is receiving texts at night… and has calls to all exes.. so he calls them.
I knew something was not right.
Now it is over.. not b/c I was smart and kicked him out of my life… BUT B/C NOW I LOOK LIKE A LYING BITCH. I turned to another woman… thinking I was helping she and myself.
I was scared. I needed evidence that my instincts were right. and every single suspician was right. excuse typos. I am in shock and sad and sleep deprived.
I need love. Hope.
someone please write me. does anyone understand what I am going thru?
Hi Kittylover…you have been through so much with this masterful manipulative guy. He is playing every woman that he sucks into his sick twisted dysfunctional world. Your mind is opening up to the truth that every word that comes out of his mouth is a LIE and that he is a domestic abuser! You did the right thing calling her…he lied to her to suck her back into his con game. DO NOT focus on her keep your focus on his horrible abusive behavior. She too and all the other women just like you are victims of him. You must always remember this…he is using “sociopath traingulation” (google) to control all of you!
This guy is scary!!! My ex husband did the same thing to me…if I called him out on his lies he would shove me up against a wall too and prevent me from getting away. Then he would scream at me with his nose pressed up against my nose for 30 mins, 45 mins, sometimes an hour. I would emotionally shut down during this time and ignored what he was screaming at me and I would just tell myself I am leaving this a** hole. But then once he stopped screaming at me he would start with “I am sorry please dont leave me” routine and would not stop or let me leave the home until I promised him that I would not leave him. This guys routine is to tell you that he wants to marry you…he is lying to control your mind…to make you think that there is a future with him. But the only future you would have with this evil abusive, manipulative guy is 100 times worse then you are going through now…these guys DO NOT change except for the worse. You deserve sooo much better…you do not deserve to be abused emotionally, mentally, verbally or physically.
These guys know that words work on woman to control woman and he is masterful at what exact words he uses to play with your mind and all these other woman mind…it’s called mind control and it time we become conditioned to know that after the abuse they will be nice…the nice part is our “reward”….reward and punishment abuse.
Get a piece of paper out and write down all the things this guy has done to you that has hurt you…you will be shocked when you see how much evil he has done to you…this will help you to start seeing him exactly as he is = a sociopath!!!
Some other things that I recommend you do also:
1) Call your countries National Domestic Violence Hotline asap (TODAY/TONIGHT) were you can talk with a free counselor 24/7 365 days a year. In the USA the nuber is 800-799-SAFE. If you are not in the USA then just google for your countries hotline.
2) Go to your local abuse center for free counseling and free woman group meetings. You can get local abuse center numbers from the National Domestic violence hotline. THIS will be the greatest gift you will ever give yourself…do not feel embarrassed or ashamed…just call them…they will give you the support you need right now.
3) The way you are feeling right now…very emotional…is sadly normal when your mind is awakening from the mind control and brain washing you have been under at the hands of your abuser. It’s scary to feel out of control with your emotional and very overwhelming…you will get through this….the best way to do this is to go to a hormonal specialist doctor and get tested for cortisol levels, vitamin/mineral deficiency and hormonal imbalance.
Most victims of abuse have PTSD…you are displaying some signs right now which leads me to believe you too have PTSD…one of the biggest issues with PTSD that needs to be healed to fully heal from domestic abuse is adrenal fatigue. Continual stress suck as a abusive relationship causes adrenal fatigue…symptoms of adrenal fatigue include anxiety, panic attacks, depression, mood swings, not being able to deal with the emotional stress, hair loss, weight gain or loss etc etc it’s a very long list. The good news the adrenal glands can be healed.
see Adrenalfatigue.org see the symptoms list/read/take quiz, DrLam.com, Mialundin.com read her book. within days of the right vitamins & hormonal balancing you will see a huge reduction in your anxiety levels.
4) READ, READ, READ as much as you can get your hands on about sociopaths and there abusive behavior…this will open your mind up quickly.
Lovefraud.com is one of the very best at providing so much healing information…if you go up to the top of this site read everything and watch the videos under the red and gray tab. Also buy Donna’s (lovefraud creator) books and read them. See also psychopathfree.com, psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com, afternarcissisticabuse.com. Other books Freedom of mind by Steven Hassan, Women who love psychopaths by Sandra Brown and The sociopath next door by Dr Martha Stout (this last one you can listen to for free on you tube)
5) Donna Anderson of Lovefraud does phone life coach counseling too you might want to do these with her to open up your mind further.
6) google “gas lighting abuse narcissist”
7) Start the ’NO CONTACT” RULE TODAY!!!!!!!! (read the article above for more info and google “no contact rule narcissist” this is the only way to escape your abuser!!
Please know that you are not alone….keep reaching out for help! You are going to get through this it just takes time.
8) YOU ARE SCARED for good reason this guy is abusive and dangerous!! You must end this relationship with him….so reach out for help today!!!
ps to find a hormonal specialist google “compounding pharmacy” with your city name then call them for a list of doctors and/or as friends for a recommendation.
Yes… my hair is coming out in handfuls. I have lost 8 pounds in two weeks and I am already underweight as I have struggled with an eating disorder all my life… which I was honest with him about.
I do not know how to thank you enough. I really dont. why do I feel such a need to email him and tell him I DID NOT TELL THE GIRL THAT I WAS AFRAID HE WOULD HIT ME….
I did not tell her that. she picked up on it… and told him that. why do I care what he thinks? I feel like an innocent person being accused of a crime. I just want him to know I did not tell her that.
not fair. so not fair. how do I let go of my urge to just tell him I did not tell her that? He said if he finds out that I told anyone else that i was afraid he would hit me… that I will hear from his attorney!!!!!!
He is poor… so I doubt that would happen. I just wish he knew I did call her… cuz like… why is she calling him at 3:08 am… when he was just talking hours prior about he and I going to he courthouse the next day? why are there texts conversations to all his exgfriends?
thank you so much for the info and the assignments. namaste.
did anyone have their hair fall out tons with this as well as severe and quick weightloss?
Kittylover…there are so many reason why you feel the need to call him..one is he formed in addiction in you to think about him and to please him…this is why you must go “no contact” with him…to break this addiction and emotional bond.
PLEASE do not fixate on the urge to call him…every time you feel that need to call him come here to this site and watch the videos at the top and read…this will open your mind up to his abuse and will break the need for you to call him. In addition you have a large amount of cortisol and adrenaline flowing through your body this is normal with any break up but with a break up with a sociopath you have higher levels (off the chart levels) and this is causing to to feel impulsive, and ocd(ing) about calling him. This is why it is important to go to a hormonal specialist to get your levels checked.
YES hair loss and weight loss (or gain) is sadly normal when dealing with a sociopath…it’s your adrenal glands stressed to the max trying to deal with all of the chaos, stress and disfunction you have been under.
FOLLOW THE NO CONTACT RULE….get a restraining order on this guy for your safety!!! He is dangerous!!
kittylover
you can start with the truth.
You were NOT WRONG to call that woman. You found out what she is. What she did was hurtful but it is the kind of hurt that is in your best interests.
There are all kinds of articles and posts here. You don’t need to wait for a response in order to find what you need. Go up top of this page. Start with Beware the Sociopath. Read. Inform yourself. You will learn what minions are (the woman you called, she’s a minion).
I can’t love you. I don’t know you. But as you read on here, you will have understanding, care, empathy, encouragement, and friendship. And yes, we all understand what you are going thru. The good news. You will go THROUGH it, and on the other side, you will be glad to be free of him
kittylover
I read my reply and wanted to clarify, you don’t have to read and be silent. You can read and write. Someone will answer, if not immediately, then as soon as they are able. I check once in a while, but not constantly. I am on this afternoon, but some days not at all. But I still care. Nobody need go through this alone. For this, you need never be alone at all, not ever again. That’s why this site exists.
thaaaaaaank you.
This is the most embarrassing and vulnerable thing I have ever shared….but I am feeling such acceptance here. If I am out of line…. I ask your forgiveness…
My biggest draw to him?
I have been a professional model, actor and dancer myself… so my taste if pretty high.
He is 6 feet five and literally…. THE BEST LOOKING MAN I HAVE EVER SEEN… except or maybe Christopher Reeve.
He is HUGE.
a fireman.
I felt protected. I am tall… finally… someone taller.
His good looks literally disarm me. Like a trance. This is soooo embarrassing.
The sex… there… I admit. the damned sex. I am 44… and have never been more attracted to or enjoyed sex more in my life. He is not a particularlly good or GIVING LOVER…. but Michael Angelo has sculpted men that look like him. He is very well endowed. muscular.
someone help me please.
this is what I am having a hard time letting go of! that is it! I am addicted. 230 pounds.
I will never ever find someone this big or attractive on a physical level.
then again… who wants to be with a guy… who at 46 years old… has his facebook page as mostly selfies?
He produces tons of testosterone and was even tested. He is what is called… High T.
I have been on soaps. commercials. was even runner up Ms. NY in 1993.
THIS IS THE MOST ATTRACTIVE MAN I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE.
He makes Johny Depp and Marlon Brando look like fleas.
Wow… have I just been vulnerable and honest.
I hope this is received with love… but thus far… all I have written to you all… has been received with love and acceptance.
advice please.
blue eyes that look into my soul.. make my head spin and literally make me dizzy.
Help me Lord. Please.
Your ex used his good looks to hook you and victimize you. If he was a good man, and was a protector and provider, his handsomeness would be very nice icing on the cake. Nothing wrong with being handsome, but there’s nothing wrong with being plain. Consider that Henry Kissinger won the sexiest man in America poll one year (Time Magazine? It’s been so long I don’t remember.) Once I get to know people well, I don’t really notice how they look. I notice how people make me feel when I’m around them, and I start to think of their physical appearance as good or ugly based on their character.
You probably especially appreciated his handsomeness since you have experience modeling and doing pageants that revolve around being physically attractive. I think in that way you thought you could relate to him. Sadly, he was nothing but deceptive and exploitive, but you had no way to know that. Sociopaths often tell us that they are just like us. They tell us all kinds of lies to manipulate us into giving them something they want. They like power and control, they lie, they are sadists; and they take whatever they want – your time, attention, money, suffering – by deception.
He is not who he said he was. True love and attraction starts with a mutual spark between 2 people based on their honest revelation to one another who they really are. You were attracted to him based on who he said he was. Of course if you’d known he was an abuser, cheater and liar, you would not have gotten involved, no matter how good looking he is. He actively used his looks and whatever lies he told you to hook you into giving him what he wanted. A lot of the starry eyed dizzy love you feel for him was orchestrated by him. He manipulated you to feel that way, it was not a natural progression.
You are going through the worst right now, and the most important thing is to have No Contact with your ex, and to keep yourself safe. He assaulted you, which is illegal, he’s obviously a psychopath and potentially dangerous to you. Getting away from him will allow you to think clearly. He has manipulated your mind to get power over you. It takes awhile and some work to get out from under that.
In the long term, you probably won’t be duped by someone using their good looks again. (He probably has victimized and is presently victimizing and will continue in the future victimizing lots of other women with his attractiveness.) You’ve learned something, and you will be stronger.
It’s natural for you to feel sad that you’ll never find someone as handsome – that is probably true. As time goes by and you get more clarity, you’ll probably feel less of a loss. I used to think my ex Spath was more or less attractive to me (he’s actually fairly plain), but after I found out what he is really like, I find him ugly. There are a couple of photos I have where his face came out really weird, like a demon. There definitely was an evil spiritual dimension to his personage.
The Bible describes Satan as being extremely good looking, ‘perfect in beauty’ Ezekiel 28:12). Jesus is described as plain looking, with no particular beauty (Isaiah 53:2).
Also, it is natural and normal that you are addicted to your ex. Women naturally bond via sex. Sadly, he used this to manipulate you. In a relationship based on love and commitment, your bond with him is appropriate and helpful in maintaining a stable relationship when problems and hardships arise. There is nothing wrong with how you feel. Those of us who have been victimized have learned to protect ourselves and not give our precious feelings away to someone who does not deserve it nor appreciate it.
kittylover, don’t worry, I cannot imagine anyone here will judge you because we’ve all been there.
Sociopaths usually have higher testosterone levels and they do seem to have this magnetic sexual charisma – they all have it, even when they are not good looking. They can be very uninhibited and have great seduction skills. The reason is that they don’t have any of the social fears. Sex is one of their primary motivations (as opposed to love) and they become very good at knowing how to get it. They have way better seduction skills then normal men, and that’s how they hook us in. And it’s the thing that makes it so difficult to get away – that craving for that passion. You can’t imagine anyone else could make you feel the way they do. The problem is that we imagine there is love attached to the passion, because that’s how it is for us. It’s not like that for sociopaths. They can have the most passionate encounter with you today, then discard you tomorrow for someone else. When you see this clearly, you have to make a choice. Your passion with them or your life. Because if you stay with them, they will slowly (or quickly) destroy you.
In your case, the good looks and great body are all part of it. But once you break away, you will see that there are other men out there you can also find attractive who are not sociopaths.
I do not know how to thank you enough for your reply and guidance. thank you.
thank you all so much.
I am in so much pain.
yes yes. I am away from a sociopath… but you guys….
HE WAS MY BEST FRIEND. He learned everything about me the past two months. My traumatic past. abuse. eating disorder. treatment center for depression and ptsd and anorexia.
he is gone now.
last week he kept playing “Shes Got A Way” on the radio by Billy Joel with tears pouring down his face. saying this song was about me.
NOW HE IS GONE.
and…..
a couple days after those tears and tight handsqueezes and holding me all night….
he had a 24 year old (hes 46) in his carmero.. letting HER DRIVE IT AT 120….
and taking cutsie photos of he and her in the car! after he had just left me at work… and I loked in his eyes and asked. “Jerry…. do you promise you are not going to see another woman?”
he said no.
so yeah….
he came back to me that night. had been drinking. passed out. I look in his phone… thre are the photos of her and some chick caling at 3:08 am and texting is he is awake. another woman by the way.
I called her. Out of love and help for she and myself.
I told her we were both being lied to.. he was in my bed!
I was scared and crying. she asked if I were afraid of him. I said yes… I BEGGED BEGGED BEGGED HER TO NEVER EVER TELL HIM I CALLED HER. That this is why I was scared.
so he comes to my office friday. tells me how much he loves me and wants me forever. and to go go Miami this weekend.
he goes to the bar…. I go home to change and shower.
he calls me….he “ran into” the girl I called.
she showed him her phone log and said I was afraid he would hit me.. (which I never said… but I did say I was scared…. but more scared of his abandonment and anger.).
he told me to never contact him again.
NOW I LOOK LIKE THE BAD GUY AND I AM HAVING A HARD TIME LIVING WITH THIS.
Yes…. I needed out. this is a bad bad bad dude. real bad.
but now I look bad and I cant even explain to him what really happened on phone with one of his fuck buddies.
Maybe it is good she told him…
b/c I am soooo addicted to him… his amazing looks and voice and sex and eyes and intelligence and passion…
that I do not think I ever could have left on my own.
hard to admit this… but that is why I am here reaching out… right?
thank you all.
kittylover
Let me understand what you are saying. He dumped you because someone told him that you were afraid he would hit you?
Take a moment and sit with that. Do you get how backwards and bizarre his reasoning is? NORMAL caring people would want you to feel secure and safe with them. He responded 180 degrees from what a decent, normal, caring man would do. The dude is without a connection to his humanity.
Add to that that he took some woman’s word, and didn’t discuss your feelings with you. HE USED your feelings to dump you. He was petty and cruel and calloused and unfeeling. Moreover, he didn’t “ran into” her. He met up with her. Unfaithful scumbag. We here on LF know his manipulation is called “triangulation”, where he pits women against each other, for his ego and his amusement. He sees himself as superior, but his character is definitely hyper-deficient.
Also, you might as well know now, the reason he wanted to learn everything about you in such a short time was in order to manipulated and control you, he was probing for your vulnerabilities, to confirm his superiority and to know how to wound you in the most painful way.
And you might as well know… those who are attracted to certain professions because they are thrill seeking, power seeking. He doesn’t have community service in his heart, he likes the drama.
I am telling you truths that you will discover on your own so that when you do discover the awful truths about him, you can know to believe yourself. I wish I could help you avoid the emotional pain, but we all know that’s not possible. But at least you know there are others who can affirm you are worth cherishing, loving, care, and respect. This guy, doesn’t have the quality of character to be that kind of person. You got played dear, by a handsome snake. A poisonous viper.
Do you have a friend to talk to, someone that will sit with you, hold your hand, be there as you grieve? This is a particular kind of grief, and while we can share and support you, if you have a person to be with, it helps. I did not have anyone so I found alternatives. I did have a wonderful therapist but such a jewel is far and few between. And of course, she wasn’t available to hang out with me and hold my hand.
This is a process so remember that, it’s not done and over quickly. And that’s NORMAL. Right now, your feelings are raw. That’s normal too. But the dude? He’s not normal, and his disconnect is why a relationship with him was never going to happen.
He knew what he was, he just didn’t tell you because his thing is to scam people, get what he wants, and move on to a new target. The girl? She’s not his new target, she’s too much a bitch. She’s his minion. The one who helps him commit evil.
For now, you need to read read read. Have you read the links above? Look under You-A Target and read the article “Preferred Prey”. It’s not you, there’s nothing wrong with you. You will find out, in this case, because he has no conscience, he was what is wrong. He’s missing the part that makes him worthy.
Love the “review old material” part. . . . I finally “got it” that an ex-boyfriend that I had to stay in contact with because of business was obsessed with a certain sunset over Chicago that we shared last year, not because he really gave a flip, but because he thought I might remember it and feel remorse over how that’s all gone now. Of course I feel remorse, that sunset moment was precious to me. Not precious enough to listen to it told to me in a million different versions by some guy who is otherwise just changing the subject on what he doesn’t want to talk about — mostly accountability. I decided the next time he brought it up, I would say I honestly didn’t want to hear about the romantic sunset. Ever. I never got a chance to do that. And that’s good. Seems my new attitude has been announced over the “vibes.”
Haha sistersister…not wuite the same but part of the psycho b.s. My psycho used to constantly tell me over and over and over that he loved me! It was cute at first especially as I fell in love with him. But after 2 bloody years it started driving me NUTS! I always felt I couldn’t say anything to him or my friends. Especially the female ones. They thought I was lucky to have such a romantic guy. But to me it was abnormal. I mean, how many responses are there to “I love you”?- Err…”I love you too”…”I know you do”…”Do you?” …it got to the point I wanted to shout “I KNOW YOU F*****G DO…YOU KEEP TELLING ME”! I never did though…it just seemed too surreal and rude possibly hurtful! But the point I’m trying to make is that it was more about trying to sell me idea of love/being loved!!He thinks he is a romantic. I used to tell him “Loving me is not a ‘Get Out of Jail Free Card” for you bad behaviour.
Funny! Thanks for that! Along the theme of what we attract, though, I’ve not only noticed the fake love around me, but my own confusion as to what love is. Again, this is my responsibility. . . . Not a responsibility to someone else, but to myself.
This isn’t just a problem with the extreme cases — the spaths — but with how I relate to everyone in my life.
Now THAT kind of self-talk is therapy! Not: Examining how I might “take responsibility for the interaction,” implying that I can preserve the relationship if only I’m a good girl, a better listener, a more sensitive person.
Very key distinction here: Taking responsibility for MY part in the interaction — versus taking responsibility for the other person’s response to that, i.e., trying to make nice by saying “I love you too.” The only person I can take responsibility for is me. The results, well, I can only state an intention for those. What I want.
By the way, what DO I want?
Perhaps you took the easy way out by working on the relationship, holding up the whole thing yourself? Because, compared with the enormous task of figuring out what love is, why I want it, and what I can do to express it, calling out how that other person used that is easy.
sistersister only TODAY I realised that I don’t have clue what love is. I don’t even know how to describe it! Don’t get me wrong I have had millions of moments of supreme closeness towards someone…even psycho. The reason I don’t know what love is – is because I was the only child of a psycho lady who did her best (which wasn’t good enough for my healthy development….really) So I am grateful that I met my psycho because he has shown me that by default! Trust me, he had absolutely nothing to do with my insights…but by being faced with his nasty deceitful behaviour for 2 years I was forced to ‘look within’. My whole reason for living is to be’spiritual’ and reach my potential as a human being. Nothing will ever get in the way of that or my Art! I haven’t decided what love is but I want a relationship that is honest. I want a really strong friendship with a man that I can trust totally to live shared values! None of that applies to psycho.
I was brought up to earn love’ by being HELPFUL! I earned love by using my brain. I appreciate that..and it serves me will in life. But ‘help others emotionally’ as I did my mother, attracted a whole bunch of nutters! All of whom I thought I could ‘help’! They all failed because when it came to me getting mine…they obviously had nothing to give..psychos or not! It took me ages to realise what was going on and that was only after a friend of 20 years told me that I’d been picking up ‘lame ducks’ for years! That’s the beauty of long term friends 1. They can see the patterns (who much evidence do I need?) 2. The know you well enough to lay it the line and get a thanks! So as of today I’m starting a personal project called What The Heck is Love Anyway? Hahaha!
I always say, “The beatings will continue until a higher consciousness is reached.” Realizing that each experience is a nudge toward that, if you recognize it as such, is the first step.
I posted this after the comment below..if it doesn’t make sense!
I was brought up to earn love’ by being HELPFUL! I earned love by using my brain. I appreciate that..and it serves me will in life. But ‘help others emotionally’ as I did my mother, attracted a whole bunch of nutters! All of whom I thought I could ‘help’! They all failed because when it came to me getting mine…they obviously had nothing to give..psychos or not! It took me ages to realise what was going on and that was only after a friend of 20 years told me that I’d been picking up ‘lame ducks’ for years! That’s the beauty of long term friends 1. They can see the patterns (who much evidence do I need?) 2. The know you well enough to lay it the line and get a thanks! So as of today I’m starting a personal project called What The Heck is Love Anyway? Hahaha!
apols for the repeat
Got it. Totally me in that mirror. I used to post lots of things about “Chrissy,” the teenager next door that I mentored. She’s still a loser. She accosts me occasionally on the street to try to get some more “help,” and I politely say she’s plenty capable of doing these things for herself. And that’s the end of the conversation. I love her, I’m there for her, but just not in any way that she recognizes as love or help. So she stays away, mostly. Shark repellent.
I am very proud of recently cutting all communication with my nasty, spiteful neighbour who I have known for 30 years and helped beyond the call of duty. She has always been vindictive and I have always forgiven it and allowed her ‘back’ into my life… without any apology. But she really over-stepped the line for good last year, and I cut all communication immediately. It killed her when I did this because before she would get away with her nastiness all the time and I would go back to ‘helper’ and I mean quality helper-shes about 20 years older than me.. and has been acting the victim for years. She NEVER apologised for her nastiness and the other day I got the chance to calmly remind her of some of what she had said. She interrupted to tell me “anyway…I’m dying…I’ve got cancer”. I just calmly waited for her to stop talking and then continued with what I was saying. I didn’t even acknowledge what she had said. I genuinely have no interest in her and that includes her illness and am happy with that. I realised at that moment that my care and love and friendship is precious and will not be thrown away like it had been all my life. Wonderful moment. On paper maybe not pretty but I just don’t care. It feels great and coming from someone who was born into the Roman Catholic the absence of guilt is exhilarating!
the support here is my saving grace.
this is worse than if someone had died. b/c I am grieving someone who was probably not even real.
I cant have contact… or closure.
then again… his deceitful actions should be closure enough.
I cant believe he spoke marriage days ago… and now puff… he is gone.
I cant wrap my mind around such evil.
and how the heck to forgive myself. this is the most difficult part.
all my gut instincts were right when I first met him at work.
I said no to all his invites for a month.
finally…. alone and sad and I JUST MOVED HERE ALONE AND STARTED A NEW JOB….. after being in rehab for anorexia for 3 months!!!
I finally gave in to an invite for coffee on the fourth of July b/c I was lonely.
we had a blast….
and I fell into the trap.
so angry at myself.
kittylover
Try not to be so hard on yourself. As someone once said, “You have enough enemies in this world, don’t let yourself be one of them.”
Did you read the article YOU – A Target, Preferred Prey?
You will discover, as all of us have, that those without a conscience seek out and deceive those who have one. They are predatory, seeking people who are caring and have the ability to love. While they are gifted at copying certain behaviors, they don’t have the actual emotions of care and love, and so every time they come up against a choice that requires having a heart, they make the inappropriate choice every time.
There is NOTHING WRONG with wanting to be loved. That’s NORMAL. The disordered do not want to be loved. In fact, they have a warped definition of love, so they call it “love” but it’s not what any feeling human would call love. Note: pedophiles have the same definition of Love that your fireman has. That’s pretty creepy isn’t it? Just one of many discoveries you will encounter.
So, again, try not to be angry with yourself. In fact, the path out of this nightmare is to be loving to yourself, to give yourself grace, and comfort, and to be kind to yourself. Take pride in having a heart, in being a feeling person. It is what makes you an evolved human being.
Two more things:
Dump and discard are common with these type. It’s like a light got shut off. You see, since they were only pretending and not really IN the relationship, it’s easy for them to step away. They had not invested any feelings. They only committed deceit.
And yes, it is very hard to grieve, because you are grieving a puff of smoke. But, YOUR feelings were real. You were invested, you were IN relationship. The reason it didn’t work out was because, at the end of it all, HE WAS NOT WORTHY of your devotion. Closure doesn’t really happen, but you will gain an appreciation for who YOU are. You will feel truly free, and you will find that life MATTERS, how you live it MATTERS. And you will CHOOSE who you share it with rather than hope for or accept whoever comes along. Life becomes more purposeful. And when you recover and find your value, the lack of closure doesn’t sting anymore.
I do not know how to thank you enough.
woke up again at 330 am in that panic and realization that he is gone.
and here you are with words that are healing me and others and changing my life. thank you.
I love LF. It is like a beacon of light here. Donna has created something truly magical for those who are ready to heal and change their lives after the worst betrayal possible.
I am happy to report that the last guy I dated whom I believe to be a narcissist has not been on my mind for the last few days. That is because I have been out dancing and partying and having fun and moving on with my life. I met many people at both places. Two guys asked me out on dates. I went on one yesterday and have another one today. The one today is very cool, and I really like him (but as usual, I proceed very slowly). I don’t know if I want to get seriously involved with anyone at this point, but I am really enjoying all of the male energy. Also, I am now being featured in salsa instructional videos for the classes I assist with. It’s really difficult to watch myself dancing on video because I see all my mistakes and feel inadequate. But my teacher believes in me, so I will continue. My life moves forward, and all of these little steps I’ve taken have built my confidence and prepared me for the next steps.
I wanted to post this to encourage you all to keep moving forward with your lives even though you may be longing and pining for someone and in pain. Getting out and living your life is the best revenge. I will help you forget about the sociopath and bring you into the present moment. From the present moment, you can feel the pain, release it, and heal. You cannot magically wipe away all of your issues overnight, but you can begin to address them from a positive perspective with hope for what your life can be.
I’m off to get ready for my lunch date today.
My warmest regards to my LF family!
Star
Your success and joy in moving forward with your life is inspiring! Thanks for sharing.
hi, i have not written in quite a while but i do read the topics. I have maintained no contact for
17 months – despite texts, emails, cards, My ex of 12 years is living with a woman whom he cheated
with throughout our 12 years together. I will not be the quote other woman in his life. I have
stopped all communication with his family except for my stepson whom i see on occassion.
My step son told me he recemtly that his father was not sure he made the right decision. My
response was its not his decisions that matter its mine and I made the right decision . Cant
say its easy cause its not. But when you understand the motives behind the reason why some one
is contacting you it becomes clearer. Breaking old habits is very hard.
Keep it up bscharming! They always like to think they are the ones making decisions! My psycho certainly was in over his head when he took me on because I have been in control of my life from the age of 6! No-one is ever going to control me (even if I wanted them to!!). The idea of giving him the ‘control’ in anything was ludicrous to me from day one!! That’s why he never got keys!And at the end of the day he was an idiot! I could do almost everything better/quicker (he was usually too stoned/drunk and he’d been doing that a lifetime…hardcore!) Maybe that’s why he was less damaging than some of the spath/psyco being written about at Lovefraud?? I do think he’s lost his psycho mojo!
My observation is that the amount of damage a spath does depends on both the spath’s skills as a manipulator and liar, and also on the victim’s circumstances and vulnerability.
Very wise bscharming.
“when you understand the motives behind the reason why some one is contacting you, it becomes clearer.”
Once I knew my ex husband’s motives, it unlocked the puzzle WHY he did such bizarre manipulations of me (and others). My ex is the sneakiest most underhanded explictive I have ever known, and I’ve known some bad people. But many of them were overt, not sneaky. The motives were the same, their methods were different.
But when you are newly in relationship, no one even knows to look for motivation. We assume they are on the same wavelength, until the “one offs” become the norm of our lives.
I discovered the most common reason my husband called me during the day, it was because he was going out with another woman or was going to “troll” for another woman. To get one over on me, to maintain his superiority over me, a game I was not playing nor ever would. I didn’t do power games. My satisfaction in a relationship is in serving to please, to make things easier and more pleasant for him. And he undermined that? It took a long time to understand why he would undermine my desire to make his life easier and more pleasant. Once I understood that if I FELT good about myself, happy that I made his life easier, that was a “loss” for him, and he was all about “winning”. So he’d sabotage his own best interests in order to “WIN”. Talk about a disconnect!
Nope. Not easy. But once it became clear about his motives, I didn’t question myself about that part ever again. And that’s why UNDERSTANDING what happened to me made all the difference. Some people say to just let it go and move on, but that kind of advice didn’t work for me.
Linda, thank you for the article. It is a great reminder of why no contact is best. And a HUGE thank you to Donna for giving us all this forum so that we can learn from each other and heal by knowing that each of us is not alone in dealing with a control freak spath. I was absolutely addicted to texting and calling my ex until I found this site. The site and the articles and the comments gave me the strength that I needed to stop the contact. I FINALLY realized that the nasty one liners coming back or the lack of response from the spath made me feel worse. I didn’t want to feel worse, I wanted closure.
But giving me closure would be relinquishing control and that’s something that spaths simply don’t do.
I am thrilled that whenever I feel even slightly tempted to call or text, I revisit the old material and it makes me stop cold in my tracks. No more abuse.
My problem is the THREE year ongoing court battle with FOUR different lawsuits against this psycho. Contact happens in the form of ugly, baseless, cruel, evil accusations in the form of “motions” that are filed with the court!
So, while I’ve stopped even thinking about ever contacting this psycho, every day, every week, every month, every year for THREE impossibly long years, I get slandered and assaulted by court documents that make me out as the bad guy. Because the psycho can’t take any responsibility for their wrong-doing and because they were NEVER accountable for the tsunami that they created when I was dumped on the curb like the trash, I have lawyers sending me horrific documents that are full of lies.
All I want is what I am owed financially, and three years later I still don’t have a single dime. What I have instead is a 10 foot tall stack of court documents and letters telling me what a loser I am.
Yes, I’m having trouble with no contact, but this one comes in a very different form. I just want all of this to end so that I never have to think about this spath again. Is that too much to ask?
I don’t think that’s too much to ask, but realistically what is best for you? Justice or anything like it, is a lost concept to a spath. Your well being is what counts, your ex is a non entity – he was never in a relationship with you. Spath relationships are one sided, because only one party is capable of relating. He was doing something else that had nothing to do with you, while pretending to be in a relationship with you, in order to get things he wanted.
In business school they teach managers not to consider past costs, but make decisions based on future results. No matter what you’ve spent, consider looking at what future outcomes you can realistically expect given more time and money you will need to spend. A decision made on this basis is the best for your well being.
In dealing with your ex spath, you might find something useful in the grey rock technique. http://www.lovefraud.com/2012/02/10/the-gray-rock-method-of-dealing-with-psychopaths/
You may want to keep in mind that while you are trying to recoup some of your financial losses and find some justice for yourself, he is probably playing cat and mouse with you, continuing to engage as long as you are willing, and determined to keep harming you as much as he can, because he likes it.
Hello to all.
Donna Anderson emailed me (and probably you, too) about six weeks ago to recommend a relationships telesummit in which she participated. I did subscribe, and I was proud of her presentation.
There were about 21 presenters in this telesummit. Another of these presenters also spoke about relationships with sociopaths (her word is narcissists), and her focus is on recovery. Her name is Melanie Tonia Evans.
Melanie was herself was married to a narcissist. Her experiences took her to such a low place that her survival was threatened. She says she recovered from her experiences and is now thriving because she discovered at her point of desperation a healing method that worked for her without spending years in recovery.
Melanie has been teaching this method to clients for a number of years for a fee, and she offers this method on CDs for a much reduced fee. She also sells e-books. One e-book is about the subject we are discussing: how to do no contact–which is over fifty pages long.
Although I notice that I am turned off by the commercial nature of this web site, it may be an unreasonable prejudice, since this is her way of making a living by doing what she is passionate about. My experience is that she seems in everything she writes to be very passionate about helping others to avoid her painful experiences and to become healthy.
I cannot comment on her healing method because I have not bought the CDs. However, I am impressed by the vast selection of FREE materials she offers. I am also impressed by the great clarity I feel when I read what she writes. She makes such good sense to me that I feel liberated. Her writings feel very supportive.
The main thing I like about Melanie’s work is that she focuses totally on the process of healing the survivor rather than on anything to do with the narcissist. She explains that continued focus on the narcissist (regardless of the significant real abuse they perpetuate) is totally disempowering to us. We get our power back by shifting our focus away from the narcissist entirely and onto ourselves, so we can heal.
Here is the web site for those who may be interested:
http://www.melanietoniaevans.com/index.htm
True, that. Putting the focus on “me.” It’s pretty revealing, how strange that feels. But I’ve finally realized that even kind friends who offer “constructive criticism” need to back off, because I drain off too much energy trying to fix myself. I’m truly fine. As I say these days, “I’m kind of a big deal.” People like me attract people like them. And they’re not spaths, just playing their role in the script I’ve written for myself. The spaths are the extreme form of that.
I’m going “no contact” on that game, no matter who plays it. Think of how much courage that takes, when you’re dealing with one of these bottom-feeders at work, and they have the power to get your reprimanded or fired — or people with power in your church who have “wondered if you’re OK” — or therapists of various stripes who have been trained by our sick society’s idea of “psychology” or “coaching.” These are normal, everyday experiences that every “reasonable” person is supposed to “deal with.” And like I said, those people are not even up to the level of spaths. With spaths, you’re really in over your head!
In my opinion, people like us are at the cutting edge of breaking away from the culture and forming something new. We’re being challenged to grow.
Sister
I agree! Being challenged to grow is, in a way, how I feel but I also get the feeling that I’m being challenged to trust my instincts, without proof, for once!
As for counseling, none of them have given me any real help or coping mechanisms, they haven’t told me anything I don’t already know and I’m sure my spath could con them as well as he’s conned me and my friends over the past 14 years…
I don’t think this applies but I just had to tell the most recent. That r. that I was seeing and haven’t seen since the end of June. He blew me off the 4th of July weekend and I ignored him after that.
He showed up at my door on the 28th of August, just last Thursday. I had the front door open for ventilation and he just walked in. He said he wanted the space heater back. He made up some cock & bull story about the heater having a recall and that the same type of heater burned his friend’s house down, and the friend is in hospital with 2nd & 3rd degree burns, and it’s not known if friend will make it. My son was home at the time and my son stopped r. from taking the space heater. So r. had to drive all the way home, all 45 minutes of driving, empty handed.
The guy drove 45 minutes to come all the way out here to take a space heater that he bought me from yard sale in early June.
That guy really caught me off guard. I thought he thinks so highly of himself and that he thinks this is my loss. I really thought it ended quietly with no more contact.
I still dread the thought of him having more tricks up his sleeve, because he really surprised me! I gotta find it humorous cause he was so cheap and wanting to use my car and my gas and not pitch in, cause his truck is a gas hog, and how much gas money did he spend going back and forth to get a yard sale space heater, and to go back empty handed.
This is a ‘funny’ story (to me) because it shows you that he can’t cope with your response to him dumping you!He needs your reaction..needs to feel he can have some control. I love his reasoning/excuse about wanting the heater! (assuming it’s even true!). Stay strong. If you don’t want this person in your life keep it that way!He’ll get the point eventually..especially if it’s costing him money.
Jeannie812, the part of this story that I find hilarious and all too typical is that there’s never a simple story, as in: I want the space heater back. Not even: I want the space heater back because it’s being recalled and I’m concerned about your safety. Rather: I want the space heater back because it’s being recalled and I’m concerned about your safety because my friend used one just like it and is in the hospital with second- and third-degree burns. He forgot to add the part about how he tried to rescue his friend but the fire department wouldn’t let him so now he has a lawsuit against the fire department and the city but he can’t afford to pay the lawyer so could you spare a thousand bucks for the retainer? And later: His lawyer was crooked and embezzled the retainer, so could you spare a couch for him to sleep on, because his landlord threw him out because his girlfriend who is a drug addict stole the rent money. And this legal system is so crooked, he had to join a radical constitutional rights movement, currently holed up in Idaho with a lot of weapons, which is why he lent them $32,000. . . . It’s never simple with these people. Ask them about the particulars of the $32,000, and they can’t tell you all of it over the phone, but they can drop another juicy detail, also involving more questions than answers. They’re always moving $28 million around for a client, using their mobile phone, while you’re meeting for coffee (somebody actually did this in front of me a couple of years ago), and they’re a disinherited member of an African dynasty or the Rockefellers. Their ex-wife was the Norwegian ambassador to Cyprus. And did they mention that they still have such fond memories of watching that sunset over Chicago, from Navy Pier? . . . Oh, and we were talking about a space heater, right?
I suggest, just for fun, making up your own story. Like, how I’d like to talk but the cops just left and took some valuable property as evidence and you’d like to get it back but you have to wait here for your lawyer to show up but the baby is out of formula so could he just wait here while you run out to the store? Thanks so much, you’re a peach! An absolute peach! And if my boyfriend calls, just tell him I’ll call back. . . .
Sister
You cracked me up – thanks for the laugh but it did remind me of my ex ex spath. He was an ex fighter pilot, highly decorated with a grandfather that built the first roads in his country and started a little town of his own. Short story! He was also extremely wealthy but where “that money” was I’d never seen it… it only took him 2 years to fleece me of all my money before I said “your loss next!”
And boy did the universe send me a superior psychopath!