In a prior post, I discussed some differences between the narcissist and sociopath, a focus I’d like to continue in this post. For convenience’s sake, I’m going to use “he” and “him” throughout, although we can agree that “she” and “her” could easily be substituted.
The narcissist, if I were to boil his style down to one sentence, is someone who demands that his sense of self (and self-importance) be propped-up on a continual basis. Without this support—in the form of validation, recognition, and experiences of idealization—the narcissist feels depleted, empty, depressed.
The narcissist struggles to define himself independently and sustainedly as significant and worthwhile. The fragility of his sense of self is no big news; it is how he manages his fragility, his insecurity, that is telling.
The narcissist, for instance, feels entitled to a sense of inner comfort and security. More specifically, he feels entitled to what he requires in order to experience an unbroken state of inner comfort.
But wait a second? Don’t we all feel somewhat entitled to what we need in order to feel secure and comfortable?
Most of us, after all, feel entitled to the air we breath that keeps us alive. You might feel entitled, when dehydrated, to a cold stream of water from your kitchen faucet? Imagine feeling an intense thirst, yet when you twist the faucet, no water comes out? The pipes are empty”¦everywhere in the house.
You are deeply thirsty, and yet the water you count on to salve your thirst is being withheld. In this circumstance, especially if your thirst is great, you might feel outraged? Incensed? Even panicked?
You might even feel furious enough to hurl curses and imprecations on the forces conspiring to frustrate your thirst!
Imagine the narcissist’s thirst as constant and deep—a thirst for things like recognition, appreciation, for validation of his importance, and special signifigance. When the narcissist’s thirst for recognition is unmet, it is no small matter—anymore than it would be a small matter to find a spigot unresponsive in the midst of your urgent thirst.
In other words, the frustration of his demand of recognition is a major disappointment, a major problem for the narcissist—a problem felt not merely as an inconvenience, but as a threat to his fundamental equilibrium, sense of security, and comfort.
In a certain sense, then, that the narcissist feels “entitled” doesn’t make him a narcissist. It is what he feels “entitled to” that is most relevant.
Specifically, it is his sense of entitlement to an undisturbed stream of others’ approval, admiration and recognition that most separates the narcissist from the non-narcissist.
But the narcissist demands more than others’ idealization; he also demands others to idealize. The narcissist needs to idealize others.
For instance, when he finally meets, yet again, the “perfect woman,” he puts her on a pedestal—i.e., he idealizes her. Idealizing her—putting her on a pedestal—makes for thrill and excitement (which, by the way, he misjudges again and again as fulfillment).
After all, he is tasting perfection. He must be pretty special to have the enviable attention of someone so perfectly, admirably beautiful. He looks and feels good thanks to the reflection of her perfection on himself.
One of many problems here is that idealized states are inherently temporary and unsustainable; they don’t hold up permanently; they are fraught all the time with dangers of collapse.
Thus, the narcissist can’t permanently hold his idealizations. And he finds their collapse, over and over again, discouraging and deeply disillusioning. But instead of recognizing the futility of his need, he will blame the formerly idealized object for failing to have remained as perfect, and perfectly satisfying, as he demanded.
The narcissist loses something urgent here, namely the key to his feeling of vitality. Inarticulately, he feels betrayed; and in his sense of betrayal, he feels angry, even enraged.
Enter his “contempt.” The underbelly of the narcissist’s idealizing is his contempt. The narcissist tends to vacillate between experiences of idealization and contempt. In either case (or “state”), others are regarded as objects—objects, we shall see, not quite in the sense that sociopaths regard others as objects.
For the narcissist, others have an obligation to maintain his peace of mind. In the narcissist’s world, it is on others, through their cooperation with his demands, to ensure his ongoing inner comfort and satisfaction. When meeting his demands, others are idealized; when disappointing him, they are devalued contemptuously.
What else does the narcissist demand? The narcissist on pretty much a constant basis demands various forms of reassurance. It may be reassurance of his attractiveness, superiority, special status in a girlfriend’s eyes (and history). He may seek reassurance of his virility, that he is still feared, respected, admired, idealized, and otherwise perceived as impressive.
For the narcissist, such reassurance, even when felt, proves always only temporarily satisfying, and is translated as something like, “I’m okay, for now. I’ve still got it. I’m still viable.”
In his pursuit of reassurance, the narcissist is a very controlling individual. His controlling tendencies arise from his desperation—his desperation, that is, for the reassurance he demands. And desperate people tend to be heedless of the boundaries of those who have what they want.
The narcissist, for instance, may grill his partner controllingly about her ex-boyfriends in order to establish (demand assurances of) his unique, special status with her. Or, he may text her during the day compulsively, in the guise of his interest in, and love, for her, when, in fact, it is not about his love or interest but rather about his demand to know that she is thinking about him that drives his invasive behavior.
He will rationalize his invasiveness as his thoughtfulness and love of her. And he will feel entitled to an immediately reassuring response, anything less than which will activate his anger/rage.
The narcissist’s legendary self-centeredness, to some extent, is a function of the fact that so much, if not all, of his energy is invested in resolving anxious questions about his present standing.
He is vigilantly afraid lest his present, fragilely, and externally supported status be upended, a development he struggles to tolerate. Consumed as he is with obviating this disaster, he has little energy left with which to be genuinely interested in others.
How about the sociopath? What’s his deal?
To begin with, the sociopath lacks the narcissist’s insatiable underlying neediness. Unlike the narcissist, the sociopath’s violating behaviors stem less from a deep insecurity than from his impulsive or calculated greed, and especially his basic view of others as objects, as tools, to be exploited for his entertainment, amusement and ongoing acquisitive agenda.
The sociopath is a more purely exploitative individual than the narcissist. For the narcissist, others are desperately needed, and demanded, as validators. Athough the narcissist will use and exploit others, he does so typically with the ulterior motive of reassuring himself, on some level, of his persisting viability.
For the sociopath, others are his potential “play-things,” their value a function of the gratification that can be extracted from them.
The less validating you are, the less worth you have for the narcissist.
The less exploitable you are, the less worth you have for the sociopath.
Said differently, the narcissist uses others as a means to establish (or reestablish) the sense, and view, of himself, as special, impressive, dominant, compelling, whereas the sociopath uses others more for the pure amusement of it; more for the sheer entertainment of seeing what he can get away with (and how); and/or for the immediate satisfaction of his present tensions, itch, and/or greed.
The term “malignant narcissist” seems to me to describe the sociopath more accurately than the narcissist. This term has been used to describe megalomaniacal individuals whose grandiosity and sinister appetite for control (over others) better reflect, to my mind, psychopathic processes of exploitation.
The “malignant narcissist” is, to my mind, driven by the sociopath’s (or psychopath’s) pursuit of omnipotent control over those he seeks to exploit. He is a power-hungry, often charismatic, ruthless and exploitative personality whose grandiosity serves more psychopathic than classically narcissistic purposes.
Don’t misunderstand me: The malignant narcissist is someone whose most toxic narcissistic qualities have attained malignant status (hence the concept). In the end, however, he is as coldblooded, callous, exploitative and deviant a creature as the most dangerous sociopath.
Does it matter, finally, whether a cult figure like, say, Jim Jones, who led hundreds of his followers to mass suicide, was a “malignant narcissist” or psychopath? Not if you regard the terms, and destructiveness of the personalities, as essentially indistinguishable, as I do.
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
How to detect a lie
http://www.wikihow.com/Detect-Lies & video
(With an S/P I don’t think it is possible to detect through the smile always or if at all. They are surpassed in hiding their lies), my opinion.
Is: Ekman, and others, admit that with an extreme S/P you just can’t know. Experts are also agreeing that sociopathy/psychopathy occurs along a spectrum, so you can be dealing with someone who is less or more sociopathic. It’s useful to observe the clues, because that can increase the odds of guarding yourself against a toxic person. But I don’t believe anyone can guard against the worst of the worst. And besides, we’re normal people living normal lives — who ever told us we’d have to become experts on deviant personalities to be able to be safe and thrive in our lives?
I would never blame someone for “missing red flags” or “not setting boundaries.” We can improve our skills, but we can’t guarantee future safety, and we should never blame ourselves for the past. We were caring people, and we got caught caring about people who can’t or won’t care in return.
Rune – Paul Elkman may have to revise his book since the invention of BOTOX!! 🙂
Yes they sure are surpassed in hiding SOME of their lies, especially when they believe their own lies.
Its so interesting tho, I could tell when he was white lying in the midst of a coverup. I couldnt tell the lies that would be flowing out about his past or in mid conversation about random non specific stuff. But when he would answer a direct question with a lie – WOW – could I ever tell! His lips got tight and slightly pursed. Almost a nervous smirk at times or would become so defensive that it was a dead give away.
He felt so confident when he was lying – but i could see right through each answer. And get this, I kept going back. That statement kills me to admit!!
And Rune I plan on relying on my skills and knowledge for my future safety – knowledge is power. It is my goal. Insofaras, I will act react and remove myself at the sight of my first red flag, my first queezy feeling in my stomache, my first something doesnt feel right moment- that will guarantee my safety from being a S/P victim again. if we live and learn, really learn and apply it, we can be safe from their presence being allowed in our lives.
Rune: After reading your post I looked up Paul Eckman and watched a few of his videos and commentaries. Interesting work. But what I have heard also, not to “Only” listen to the content of what the person is saying, but paying more attention to the facial expressions, and body languages.
The S/P has made it a life project, a career in getting over on everyone they come into contact with and succeed with judges, law enforcement and many others.
I do not place blame on anyone, they are career, their life is seeking to gain wealth and prosperity through their lies. And as you say we are compassionate and caring. But I want to be able to stay free of the next S/P that may come into my space, and knowledge of what to look for and reading about them is to my advantage and I am so happy to be here to gain knowledge and understanding of this S.
With my S, I could Not tell through his facial features, later I learned I could through his body language. His lies were very TALL, TALL, TALL tales. I should have known. The lies were never simple and he made the stories always justified by the fact, his fact that he was always wronged to gain pity. ie., money and a place to live.
There is an article here on LF somewhere, can’t remember when or the name, but it has to do with detecting lies in others. Even “trained” people are only good about 50/50, and with the psychopaths, who have NO CONSCIENCE, therefore no ANXIETY about being believed when they lie, they don’t give off the signals that “normal” people do.
There have been studies of various professional lie detectors, cops, FBI etc. and they are not much better than the 50/50 either.
Looking at my Ps (in retrospect) the only way I could detect “lies” was (A) when they would say A one day and B the next, forgetting what they had said the first time.
(B) when they would DENY DENY DENY in the face of EVIDENCE that you know was true. Otherwise it was VERY difficult to tell when they were lying.
Even Hare mentioned the thing about them LYING in the face of EVIDENCE to the contrary and he says he thinks it is because of the Left/right brains not “hooking up” to monitor what they are saying in relationship to “evidence.” Then he calls it like they know the “words” to a song, but not the “music.” On emotional things it is that they know the word “love” but not what the FEELING is or how it effects our behaviors.
One example Hare uses is a female P saying “I love my children,” yet, she failed to FEED them. It is obvious to anyone else (besides a P) that she did NOT love those children, but SHE doesn’t see that she doesn’t “love” them because she sees no conection between the word “love” and the behavior of feeding and nurturing her children.
Sometimes, too, when a P is frustrated they will “lose it” or “drop the mask” momentarily like my P-son did the last time I saw him, and the REAL face, the LOOK will beam out from their eyes with VENOM, but then when they regain control the mask goes back up and it is like “nothing happened” 5 seconds before. I absolutely KNEW what I was seeing was the REAL man behind the mask when I saw that LOOK on his face…that SAtanic look of pure EVIL and malice.
The same look I saw in my P-sperm donor’s face. The same look I saw in my egg donor’s face when I refused to continue to play “let’s pretend none of this happened” and go on enabling my P-offspring.
With my egg donor, and I am not sure she is really a P, it NEVER OCCURED TO ME SHE WOULD LIE so I never looked for one, I always made excuses when she said one thing and then later said she hadn’t said it….but when I actually CAUGHT her in a lie, she didn’t react like a P would have and deny deny deny, she actually became enraged, but admitted she had been caught. It pithed her off big time to have been caught, but she couldn’t deny it any more. If I hadn’t had a witness I think she would have denied,but in the face of EVIDENCE to the contrary, she did “shell down the corn” and admit the lie….but then blamed me for her doing it. LOL
The bottom line TO ME is that if a person LIES TO ME even once, I will never trust them again unless I see signs of true repentence and LONG TERM BEHAVIOR CHANGE. So far I have never been blessed to have that happen, so to me, ONE LIE and it is a strike out!
So thrilled about seeing all this snow out my window, I cant sleep! But just wanted to add – I saw “the look” in the eyes ONE TIME. The trance state, the deep stare, the enraged pupils. I wont go into the details, but he had an all out “freak out” because I wanted to call it quits and wanted do so with maturity and respect. HE screamed get out, get the F out and dont ever come back here again…this big huge scene, slammed his fist into the wall, threw things across room (of course I thought I am NOT going to appear afraid or phased) I said S just sit down/converse/talk to me like an adult, its me, its just me standing here before you. HE WAS UNLIKE ANYTHING ID EVER WITNESSED – VERBALLY SAYING HIS HEART WAS POUNDING OUT OF HIS CHEST AND FOR ME TO GET OUT, GET OUT, GET OUT. BUT IT WAS HIS EYES, HIS EYES THAT SCARED ME AWAY THE MOST. I said my god, whatever happened to you in your life, prior to meeting me, is right here with you in this room with us tonight. I cant imagine what your story is. And I left.
Several days later I received a text that said. Did your therapist tell you I am officially mentally ill? Because I think it was the vitamins I was taking to enhance my (——-) . Ive stopped taking them and I feel so much better.
Everyone — after youve finished laughing. Im embarrassed to tell you, eventually I went back. It bothers me to admit it. But I forgave and went back. Knowing full well it wasnt a reaction to a penis vitamin. OMFG!!! Never again did I ever witness “satans eyes” – but I def did that nite. The stories…. The pathetic stories… Thats one I only shared with my best friend, not even my sister!!!
Dear learn-ed,
Yep, it IS SCARY! It is one “photographic memory” I will never get out of my head. The closest thing I have ever seen to resemble it is the “famous” photo of Charlie Manson that was on the news so much and in print where he had THAT LOOK on his face. It is the PREDATOR look. I have seen it in the eye of a tiger on the hunt, the lion on the hunt, but not even EVIL, just concentration on the animal’s part, but in the human eye with THAT LOOK it is more than JUST predatory, it iis “evil” (no other word can describe it).
ok… goodnight all… hope that wasnt too much to share – sometimes I just cannot believe all I endured, wrote off, excused, dealt with, put up with. Scares me that I did. I know I have a huge flaw. But I am healthy to know the worst I did was forgive and settle for a messed up relationship and lived in denial. I can fix that, I can fix me. And being here at LF allows me another way to ensure I actually follow through and apply what I am learnING.
Oxy – posted at same time. IT is a chilling site to see. NEVER want to again!
Get some sleep Oxy Lady… we need our beauty rest girl!!! 🙂
Rune, you always know how to sooth our broken souls. You encourage me (and do not blame ); that is cooling balm to the burn that I have received. I was wondering, if you or Matt or anyone could advice me. This time last year I found out my S husband was cheating in every way and the next my son called with news that he had a mass on his right kidney. He is 22 yrs. old and he had his right kidney removed -renal cancer last April. I went to a preliminary court hearing with my S right after on May 12th. Fast forward-one year and I went to court again Feb. 2nd for contempt on his part for not following any of the court orders (mediation and shared payments of equity line, credit card etc.) He is facing 90 days if not followed by March 10 or so. Just received word from my sons’ scan that he has a small growth on his only other kidney. Here we go again. When will it STOP!? I am being forced to go to mediation with someone who is incapable of working out anything in a decent manner. I am so ready to give up this whole ordeal! I just want a DIVORCE! and to be done! My son is my priority and focus. I need the money and focus for him. What should I do at this point? Thanks!