In a prior post, I discussed some differences between the narcissist and sociopath, a focus I’d like to continue in this post. For convenience’s sake, I’m going to use “he” and “him” throughout, although we can agree that “she” and “her” could easily be substituted.
The narcissist, if I were to boil his style down to one sentence, is someone who demands that his sense of self (and self-importance) be propped-up on a continual basis. Without this support—in the form of validation, recognition, and experiences of idealization—the narcissist feels depleted, empty, depressed.
The narcissist struggles to define himself independently and sustainedly as significant and worthwhile. The fragility of his sense of self is no big news; it is how he manages his fragility, his insecurity, that is telling.
The narcissist, for instance, feels entitled to a sense of inner comfort and security. More specifically, he feels entitled to what he requires in order to experience an unbroken state of inner comfort.
But wait a second? Don’t we all feel somewhat entitled to what we need in order to feel secure and comfortable?
Most of us, after all, feel entitled to the air we breath that keeps us alive. You might feel entitled, when dehydrated, to a cold stream of water from your kitchen faucet? Imagine feeling an intense thirst, yet when you twist the faucet, no water comes out? The pipes are empty”¦everywhere in the house.
You are deeply thirsty, and yet the water you count on to salve your thirst is being withheld. In this circumstance, especially if your thirst is great, you might feel outraged? Incensed? Even panicked?
You might even feel furious enough to hurl curses and imprecations on the forces conspiring to frustrate your thirst!
Imagine the narcissist’s thirst as constant and deep—a thirst for things like recognition, appreciation, for validation of his importance, and special signifigance. When the narcissist’s thirst for recognition is unmet, it is no small matter—anymore than it would be a small matter to find a spigot unresponsive in the midst of your urgent thirst.
In other words, the frustration of his demand of recognition is a major disappointment, a major problem for the narcissist—a problem felt not merely as an inconvenience, but as a threat to his fundamental equilibrium, sense of security, and comfort.
In a certain sense, then, that the narcissist feels “entitled” doesn’t make him a narcissist. It is what he feels “entitled to” that is most relevant.
Specifically, it is his sense of entitlement to an undisturbed stream of others’ approval, admiration and recognition that most separates the narcissist from the non-narcissist.
But the narcissist demands more than others’ idealization; he also demands others to idealize. The narcissist needs to idealize others.
For instance, when he finally meets, yet again, the “perfect woman,” he puts her on a pedestal—i.e., he idealizes her. Idealizing her—putting her on a pedestal—makes for thrill and excitement (which, by the way, he misjudges again and again as fulfillment).
After all, he is tasting perfection. He must be pretty special to have the enviable attention of someone so perfectly, admirably beautiful. He looks and feels good thanks to the reflection of her perfection on himself.
One of many problems here is that idealized states are inherently temporary and unsustainable; they don’t hold up permanently; they are fraught all the time with dangers of collapse.
Thus, the narcissist can’t permanently hold his idealizations. And he finds their collapse, over and over again, discouraging and deeply disillusioning. But instead of recognizing the futility of his need, he will blame the formerly idealized object for failing to have remained as perfect, and perfectly satisfying, as he demanded.
The narcissist loses something urgent here, namely the key to his feeling of vitality. Inarticulately, he feels betrayed; and in his sense of betrayal, he feels angry, even enraged.
Enter his “contempt.” The underbelly of the narcissist’s idealizing is his contempt. The narcissist tends to vacillate between experiences of idealization and contempt. In either case (or “state”), others are regarded as objects—objects, we shall see, not quite in the sense that sociopaths regard others as objects.
For the narcissist, others have an obligation to maintain his peace of mind. In the narcissist’s world, it is on others, through their cooperation with his demands, to ensure his ongoing inner comfort and satisfaction. When meeting his demands, others are idealized; when disappointing him, they are devalued contemptuously.
What else does the narcissist demand? The narcissist on pretty much a constant basis demands various forms of reassurance. It may be reassurance of his attractiveness, superiority, special status in a girlfriend’s eyes (and history). He may seek reassurance of his virility, that he is still feared, respected, admired, idealized, and otherwise perceived as impressive.
For the narcissist, such reassurance, even when felt, proves always only temporarily satisfying, and is translated as something like, “I’m okay, for now. I’ve still got it. I’m still viable.”
In his pursuit of reassurance, the narcissist is a very controlling individual. His controlling tendencies arise from his desperation—his desperation, that is, for the reassurance he demands. And desperate people tend to be heedless of the boundaries of those who have what they want.
The narcissist, for instance, may grill his partner controllingly about her ex-boyfriends in order to establish (demand assurances of) his unique, special status with her. Or, he may text her during the day compulsively, in the guise of his interest in, and love, for her, when, in fact, it is not about his love or interest but rather about his demand to know that she is thinking about him that drives his invasive behavior.
He will rationalize his invasiveness as his thoughtfulness and love of her. And he will feel entitled to an immediately reassuring response, anything less than which will activate his anger/rage.
The narcissist’s legendary self-centeredness, to some extent, is a function of the fact that so much, if not all, of his energy is invested in resolving anxious questions about his present standing.
He is vigilantly afraid lest his present, fragilely, and externally supported status be upended, a development he struggles to tolerate. Consumed as he is with obviating this disaster, he has little energy left with which to be genuinely interested in others.
How about the sociopath? What’s his deal?
To begin with, the sociopath lacks the narcissist’s insatiable underlying neediness. Unlike the narcissist, the sociopath’s violating behaviors stem less from a deep insecurity than from his impulsive or calculated greed, and especially his basic view of others as objects, as tools, to be exploited for his entertainment, amusement and ongoing acquisitive agenda.
The sociopath is a more purely exploitative individual than the narcissist. For the narcissist, others are desperately needed, and demanded, as validators. Athough the narcissist will use and exploit others, he does so typically with the ulterior motive of reassuring himself, on some level, of his persisting viability.
For the sociopath, others are his potential “play-things,” their value a function of the gratification that can be extracted from them.
The less validating you are, the less worth you have for the narcissist.
The less exploitable you are, the less worth you have for the sociopath.
Said differently, the narcissist uses others as a means to establish (or reestablish) the sense, and view, of himself, as special, impressive, dominant, compelling, whereas the sociopath uses others more for the pure amusement of it; more for the sheer entertainment of seeing what he can get away with (and how); and/or for the immediate satisfaction of his present tensions, itch, and/or greed.
The term “malignant narcissist” seems to me to describe the sociopath more accurately than the narcissist. This term has been used to describe megalomaniacal individuals whose grandiosity and sinister appetite for control (over others) better reflect, to my mind, psychopathic processes of exploitation.
The “malignant narcissist” is, to my mind, driven by the sociopath’s (or psychopath’s) pursuit of omnipotent control over those he seeks to exploit. He is a power-hungry, often charismatic, ruthless and exploitative personality whose grandiosity serves more psychopathic than classically narcissistic purposes.
Don’t misunderstand me: The malignant narcissist is someone whose most toxic narcissistic qualities have attained malignant status (hence the concept). In the end, however, he is as coldblooded, callous, exploitative and deviant a creature as the most dangerous sociopath.
Does it matter, finally, whether a cult figure like, say, Jim Jones, who led hundreds of his followers to mass suicide, was a “malignant narcissist” or psychopath? Not if you regard the terms, and destructiveness of the personalities, as essentially indistinguishable, as I do.
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2009 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
Steve,
Could the malignant narcissist be an even ‘more broken’ version of the basic narcissist? Hitler and Stalin were severely abused as children.
Or, malignant narcissism = narcissism + power, such as with Sunbeam’s “Chainsaw” Al Dunlap.
=============
Student Of Socipathy
Oxy…glad to see you’re keepin’ busy. After just readin’ that list I need a nap!
“picking up and tossing stuff”? You got dwarves, too? Don’t tell the elf…Lord of the Rings II/The Two Towers
No wonder we moved off the farm when I was six.
((((HUGS))))don’t BOINK me…just funnin’ ya’
OxDrover- thanks for the welcome, sorry I qualify too. I’m NC with my FOO. I live far enough away from them all that I didn’t think it would be necessary. But it was. I feel like I broke away from a cult.
Jim- skillets! never had to dodge one of those. My family was into emotional battery and neglect. According to them there are no family problems that forcing a smiling, and saying “I love you too!” wouldn’t fix. They can’t figure out why I won’t do that any more. The emotional equivalent of a blasted Band-Aid…. Does a Band-Aid fix a skillet whack to the head? I didn’t think so.
SOS: I don’t think a malignant narcissist is defined by the power he has, but by what he is willing to do to get it. Hitler and Stalin had tremendous power, and they did heinous things to get it and keep it. What they did to get the power is what made them horrible, not the fact alone that they had power. A stupid narcissist (if there is such a thing) might do brutal things to get power, but be so inept that he never gets any. Well, until he has kids.
Just my $0.02 worth. (BTW why the heck is there no “cent symbol” key on the keyboard, or am I just clueless and don’t know how to type one?)
Later!
Cedrus
Cedrus:
I can relate to what you said about your family. I grew up in a physically and emotionally abusive family with a mother who was a narcissist and a father whom I am pretty sure was a sociopath.
A book that helped me immeasurably in trying to understand what went on my family is “If YOu Had Controlling Parents” by Dan Neuharth. He breaks the book down into various types of control — what I didn’t realize is that often more than one type is at work.
Dear Cedrus,
I bought that book on Matt’s recommendation and it really is very good, along with the “Betrayal Bond” it pretty well covers our situations.
My egg donor was not the “Beast of Budapest” or anything, but she was a controlling person whose mantra was “What would the neighbors think?” Everything was about appearance in front of the neighbors. I was also “commanded” to “pretend none of this happened.” My sperm donor WAS the “Beast of Budapest”–fortunately he didn’t raise me.
I went NC with him 40+ years ago, but it really never dawned on me until a little over a year ago that it was EVEN POSSIBLE to go NC with HER. It never even crossed my mind as a consideration—not a “forever” NC—now I know that FOREVER NC is the only that that IS POSSIBLE.
Now, I am having to re-think most of my attitudes about “what is truth about X, y or z?” Re-think my most basic attitudes about right and wrong, black and white or gray…
AT least, though, I am now able to THINK about things and not be swayed by her commands about how I should think about this or that, and I no longer live in fear that I will be relagated to hell-fire & brim-stone by her angry “god”—I have found a different God now, a loving FATHER, so I am no longer an orphan, raised by Evil Wolves, but the child of the King of the Universe, who loves me. Heck of a transformation! Makes life so much better!
“
Matt & OxDrover
I haven’t heard of “If You Had Controlling Parents”. I looked at it on Amazon, and it looks really good. Thanks.
My best guess is that my mother is a sociopath.
My father died quite a while ago, but my best guess is that he was an narcissist. He could be charming though, and had a sense of humor, and occasionally paid attention to me. But mostly, he wasn’t around. (He was a workaholic and had a girlfriend on the side.) He was so much more normal than my mother that I worshiped him. I didn’t realize how twisted he was until a few years ago. For that matter, he might not have been a workaholic. He said he had to work….
Anyway, to round out the family, my sister is a narcissist and her husband is a sociopath. There are others, but the groupies, oh, I mean extended family have played a much smaller role in my life.
I’ve been doing a lot of rethinking too. What is the definition of ‘love’? What is ‘forgiveness’? … I’ll stop here or I’ll start to rant. (Just don’t put ‘forgive’ and ‘forget’ in the same sentence without a ‘not’, or I will rant.)
Cedrus
Cedrick said:
a selfish person will at some point (sometimes later rather than sooner) face the truth of what they did and for lack of a better word: repent. This has a lot more to do with changing actions and behaviors than with just saying ‘sorry’. Words are so cheap.
When I was voluntarily out of work for a time after my last workplace sociopathic experience, my sister called me up needing help painting my aged fathers house ”“ she was afraid of heights. I avoided doing business with my stingy father whenever possible, but I went out to help her anyways. I discovered extensive dry rot around many windows and spent over 100 hours repairing the structural damage. When I determined the cause had been neglect and that he had known about the damage before I discovered it, I asked for compensation from my father. He said he could offer no more than minimum wage as that was all his pension would allow. But while I was working he had other work done professionally (furnace repair, roto rooter, security system installed…) to the tune of $75/hr or more. I told myself I was being a good son by pitching in.
Then I found out that two months later he took my mother on a four week four star trip to Europe. A couple months after that, he showed me his brand new Camry hybrid. When I brought up affording the payments he bragged that he’d paid cash.
I held back on the angry feeling that I’d been had by my dad, being “a good son” and all. But remembered that he’d always been very stingy with his time and money. As a kid I was on my own when it came to learning how to ride a bike, how to drive a car, how to select friends and mates, street wisdom, all that worldly survival training stuff. He’d only get involved (with punishment) if I did something that made him look bad or if I damaged something he owned.
He worked as a minister, and seemed moral enough, but had significant financial support from his parents throughout his life and after they died. He talked trash about me to them behind my back when I wasn’t growing up to be the son he’d wanted, which IMO, was a result of his being my father. In hindsight he had “low empathetic and cause/effect reasoning”. In my world a parent often reaps what they sow ”“ you give your kids a good start and it’ll pay dividends. He doesn’t seem capable of understanding this simple thing.
Question #1: Am I being whiny and irrational about him, or did he have a narcissistic streak which qualifies me to be one of Dan Neuharth’s readers?
Question #2: I asked this one before here: http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/03/04/letters-to-lovefraud-she-turned-into-a-snarling-spitting-monster/#comment-29667
I’m curious as to why these two things happens:
1. The victim “breaks”.
2. The victims family gets tired of listening, and/or cannot understand.
Are those two things related?
Question #3: Exactly how does a sociopath sense this history in their victim, and, how can one hide this ’victim red flag’ from the sociopath?
SOS
you asked “Question #1: Am I being whiny and irrational about him, or did he have a narcissistic streak which qualifies me to be one of Dan Neuharth’s readers?”
my opinion: You are not being whiny and irrational. Your own father treated you like a shmuck who deserved to be taken advantage of (in other words, like an object). He was even proud of it. How can I tell? Because he didn’t bother to hide the fact that he took advantage of you. He all but advertised it. He rubbed your nose in it. He wants you to be sure you know that he is a more powerful man than you. Great big ‘ouch’ coming from someone who is supposed to love you unconditionally. But he’s wrong. You are stronger than he is, because you don’t have to take advantage of other people to be a grown up. He is a bully. He’s no better than a toddler with a big pant size.
By all means read Dan Neuharth’s books. If you’re a Christian (or just interested) I recommend “No More Christian Nice Guy” by Paul Coughlin. That book really helped me, even though it is completely geared to male readers, and I’m not a guy. (My login name “Cedrus” means “cedar”, as in Psalm 92:12 – Righteous people flourish like palm trees and grow tall like the cedars in Lebanon.)
your Question #2 about other people getting tired of listening, I understand completely. It adds salt to open wounds. Most people don’t want to know, don’t want to talk about it, wish you’d just shut up and move on. Even therapists. It’s not you, it’s them. Many times it’s because the people you’re confiding in haven’t dealt with their past family issues, and so it makes them uncomfortable to hear about yours. But whatever the reason, realize that people like that aren’t necessarily bad friends, or even uncaring, but they are not good people for you to confide in. There is a reason a web site like this flourishes. It’s hard to find people who understand what you’re going through and don’t just say “Too bad! now move on!” Your wounds aren’t visible, so most people would just rather pretend that you are whiny than that you are emotionally mauled and need months, if not years of special consideration and healing. If a tree fell on you, would people walk by and say “too bad! push that bad boy off you and lets go get dinner. ”
your Question 3: Exactly how does a sociopath sense this history in their victim, and, how can one hide this ’victim red flag’ from the sociopath?
my opinion: sociopaths are very good at reading body language. If they are wrong about someone’s vulnerability, they will know very quickly, because their intended victim will tell him to take a hike. The ‘victim’ will never be victimized, or at least very little. You can’t hide from a sociopath, but you can become strong enough to deflect one. “All” you have to do is risk standing up to them. That’s hard. Sometimes that means you have to be willing to lose your father, mother, sister, brother, friend, spouse, child, job ….
In my experience, most people aren’t willing to risk that much. I sat on the fence for decades. Knowing that something was very wrong with my family, but keeping my distance as much as possible, making excuses for everyone, and playing nice because it was the well, the “nice” thing to do. (But was anyone ever “nice” to me, without wanting something? No.) But that was hard, very hard on my soul, my self-worth. I wish I had gone NC as soon as I was 18. I wasn’t strong enough.
I hope my rambling helps you! You’re not alone, even if it feels that way a lot.
Cedrus
Cedrus,
Thanks for the rambling. I tend to do the same. Your opinion was helpful. I took me a while to thank you because my computer’s RAM crashed and was in the shop.
I’m seeing how the “good son” within me tried to give dad a rationalized benefit of the doubt – you know, “he’s getting old, he was a spoiled kid, his empathic reasoning has gone senile…” But it looks like this line of reasoning is meant to protect my own emotions and is not a clear view of reality.
He’s somewhere between autistic and narcissistic. Loves his stamp and coin collections and has a Biblical literalist/creationist viewpoint of religion where his perception is correct and any other, (including my extrapolation of spirituality from Einstein-ian physics, where everything material, i.e. mass/time constrained, is relative, but Biblical references pointing to “light” are referring, best they can, to a higher dimensional domain where spiritual beings are ’everywhere all the time’, and will be the only ’place’ to accurately perceive all truth all at once, and death is not so much a “going to heaven or hell” but a rejoining/reintegrating consciousness with/into the spiritual self ) is crazy and wrong. To him I may still be ’bad’, and will have to be manipulated and punished materially until I accept his precise viewpoint of the Bible.
Well, enough rambling. At least I only had one cold parent. My mother is sweet but very naïve.
I’m going to keep exploring my #2. I beginning to believe that if somebody comes from a family where every member is valued and every member values the family, susceptibility to sociopathy and recovery time from sociopathy decreases significantly. It may be a good thing to help like-minded people figure out the ingrained traits and behaviors which signal “target” to sociopathic predators.
Sos,
My “egg donor” has this literalist/hell fire and brimstone interpretation of the Bible. She used twisted scripture to INSIST, AND DEMAND that “forgiveness” meant “pretending like it never happened, and that it wouldn’t happen again even though you knew it would”—or go to hell and burn forever.
She just about turned me away from any belief in God, but thank goodness she wasn’t able to….now, my belief in a loving God is deeper than ever, and I have rejected her Pharisee-like “do as I say not as I do” take on scriptures.
I was fortunate to have a very loving, kind and caring step father who kept my egg donor pretty well in check much of the time, and he DID give me unconditional love and care, where she did not.
I too made myself believe we had a “nice normal family” IN SPITE OF THE EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY! I am NC with my egg donor and now I have the space to think without listening to her diatribes, condemnations and prejudices. Now I know that she is a liar, and will lie to suit her purposes and then lie about the lie! She is not the “saint” she painted herself to be, but a Pharisee who binds rules on others that don’t seem to apply to them. I don’t think she is a P, per se, but she is doing the bidding of my P-son and therefore is a “P by Proxy” with her enabling of him, her smear campaign against me, the lies she told the lies she is still telling. The invalidation of my feelings and needs.
It was rough at first, I never even considered a possibility that I could or should go NC with my egg donor “forever.” Maybe get mad and do it for a day, a week or a month, but not FOREVER. Now I cannot even imagine ever having any kind of relationship with her. I DON’T WANT ONE. I don’t need one. It would be like inviting your rapist to dinner in your home. There are just some things I can forgive (get the bitterness out of my heart) but I cannot EVER trust her again, because I KNOW that she is not going to magically change and start to care about my needs or my welfare. So why would I ever trust her. I do NOT believe that the Bible tells us to trust someone we know will betray us again.
Jesus told us to be “wise as serpents and as innocent as doves” and that “by the fruit you shall know if the tree is good or bad.”
Joseph forgave his brothers for selling him into slavery, but he did NOT trust them until he had TESTED them quite harshly to see what kind of men they had become in the 20 some odd years since he had seen them last. Only after he saw that they had changed and would sacrifice their lives to keep their father from grieving over Benjamin’s death did he start to trust them by identifying himself to them.
I could go on with other examples, but you get the idea. My vision now is that I have no obligation to God or man to put myself at risk by associating with people who mean me harm.
My spiritual walk has been a difficult one, as my mother’s take on God as a terrorist ready to burn me in hell had me scared to death of God by the time I was 5 or 6 and thinking that He could read my mind and I could never be “perfect” enough to go to heaven, cause I would always have some “sin” on my back and if I wasn’t quick enough to say “sorry” for it with my last breath, no matter how I had tried, I would still be condemned to hell. That’s one heck of a way for a little kid to think and feel. Thank you, Egg Donor for that lovely view of God. I am glad that I no longer feel that way and I no longer live in terror of my egg donor’s vengeful wrathful god.
I think my Victim red flag was that I was trained to “be responsible for everyone else’s happiness” and no matter what they did to me, I had to accept it—or go to hell. I no longer accept that view, and though I try to be a Christian, I know I fall short of that hourly, but I am not terrified that the God who loves me is going to Zap me for trying the best I can. That is much more comfortable for me. NC with the egg donor is also allowing me to grow and have peace while I do it. NC FOREVER!