By | September 12, 2012 47 Comments

The Danger of a Psychopathic Parent in a Medical Crisis

This past weekend, I learned some terribly difficult lessons.  I learned first hand how dangerous a Psychopathic parent can be during a medical emergency.  I also learned another reason that  “co-parenting” with a psychopath is not possible (because they have no intention to co-parent and have a reckless disregard for the law and, in turn, will disrespect Custody Orders).

During my ex spath Luc’s second unsupervised visitation with my baby boy, the supervisor for the exchanges called me about ten minutes before we were supposed to pick up baby boy from the visit and said, “Don’t freak out, but I just received a call from the hospital telling me that Luc brought baby boy in after baby boy had a seizure.”  Time seemed to stop as I sat there in complete shock.

The Beginning of Craziness:

I immediately stepped sped out of the parking lot where I had been waited and headed out on the 50 mile drive to rescue my son.  As I sat in hellish traffic, I called the hospital attempting to get more information.  As I spoke with the nurse, it became clear that before I was notified of the emergency Luc spent a significant amount of time spinning a web of lies with the hospital staff.  When I told the staff that I wanted Luc escorted from the hospital well before my arrival, they refused stating that Luc had indicated that he was baby boy’s legal guardian.  My concerns about the Luc’s history of domestic violence and child abuse were completely dismissed as the nurses stated, “he has told us all about YOUR situation and he has done all the right things by taking the child to the hospital.”

The lesson I learned from this situation about myself is that I need to somehow find it inside of me not to have a physical reaction when I witness the aftermath of Luc’s incredible story telling.  I tell people everyday how important it is to remain calm and not show a psychopath your emotions and not to react to their insane behavior.  Unfortunately, this weekend pushed my buttons like they have never been pushed before.  The Mama Bear inside of me came out to protect my little baby bear cub.  Insane acting Cappuccino Queen came out on the hospital and, sadly, I played right into his negative description of me.

How Luc put baby boy in danger:

Thankfully, by the grace of God, Luc was savvy enough to call 911 when he witnessed baby boy having a seizure; however, 911 was called an hour before I was ever notified that baby boy was having a medical crisis.  Luc called 911, took the trip in the ambulance, arrived at the hospital, completed the medical examination questions and intake paperwork and never thought to mention my name to the medical personnel or the important fact that I am baby boy’s sole legal custodian.  It was as if I had died and Luc was the sole surviving parent.

When I arrived at the hospital, I was told that baby boy was ready to be dismissed and the hospital staff was not interested in asking additional questions about baby boy’s true medical history.  Baby boy was released from the hospital without a blood test and while he still had a fever.  Luc completed paperwork stating that he was the legal guardian and that baby boy did not have health insurance (which is a lie because baby boy is on my health insurance).  He also lied to the hospital staff about baby boy’s medical history and answered questions inaccurately (knowing that he didn’t know the answer).

Round Two – Post initial hospital visit

After being rushed through hospital discharge, I realized that something still appeared “off” with baby boy.  He was still feverish and appeared to be struggling to walk.  Though Luc didn’t notice this as odd behavior (or maybe didn’t really care), I noticed as I see baby boy on a daily basis and know what is normal for him.  I was not satisfied with his treatment at the first hospital (as it was clear Luc had been running the show and lying to the staff), son I brought baby boy to a hospital closer to my house.

At first, I felt like maybe I was being a little paranoid but I couldn’t shake the feeling that something had been missed.  Low and behold, about 30 minutes after baby boy was admitted into the second hospital, his fever spiked and he proceeded to have two more seizures.   The hospital near my home indicated that the first hospital had been negligent in their care of baby boy as they had not ordered additional testing to identify the true cause of the seizures.

Parental Alienation:

I have heard a lot about Parental Alienation through this Custody War and it seems as though at every turn my lawyers are warning me not to come across as negative toward Luc.  I have always thought that Parental Alienation would be extremely hard to prove as it is a lot of hearsay.  I have also known that as soon as baby boy can understand and communicate, Luc will begin his attempts to poison my son against me.

What happened this weekend, in my humble opinion, is a clear example of Parental Alienation.  When baby boy had a medical emergency, Luc refused to acknowledge my existence and he denied baby boy access to the safety and security of his mother (and legal custodian).  For the time period he was with Luc, he didn’t believe it was important tell medical professionals the truth about his status as a parent.

After two days of no word from Luc, the supervisor called him to ask him if he intended on taking his visit this week with baby boy.  At this time she notified him that baby boy had had several follow on seizures.  She also scolded Luc for his untimely reporting and told him that he violated the Custody Order by not providing accurate information to the hospital – particularly the fact that he did not have legal custody and is not legally allowed to make medical decisions for baby boy.  Luc told her that he didn’t agree that he did anything wrong and that he did not believe he was responsible to give my information to the hospital in a medical crisis.  Clearly Luc misunderstood the meaning of Legal Custody or maybe this is just yet another example of his reckless disregard for the law.


Lawyers Response:

After nearly 48 hours of no sleep and emotional turmoil over what was happening with my son, I took all the information I obtained (through hospital records) to my attorney’s.  I was sure that they would agree with me that this was grounds to change the Custody Order.  I believed it was clear that Luc put my son’s life in danger when he chose to deny that he wasn’t the legal custodian in order to protect his ego and or reputation at the hospital.

Unfortunately, I owe my attorney’s several thousand dollars.  While I wrote up the Emergency Order and brought it to them to file, I was met with sneering faces and judgement that I did not expect.  My attorney’s proceeded to accuse me of trying to block Luc from baby boy’s life and “nit pick” in order to find something wrong.  After about five minutes in their office, I walked out in tears knowing that my relationship with that law firm had come to an end.

It was clear that even after the past year of learning WHAT Luc is, they still didn’t understand the true threat this man poses to my son.  That was clear with the following statements:

1)  Don’t you understand what positive things Luc can offer your son?  He is great at manipulation!

2)  Your son deserves the right to love his father.

3)  Luc probably killed people, do you think he is going to care about following some small detail in this Custody Order?  (Yes, I know…they actually said this after points one and two with a straight face.  It was clear at this point I was being mocked)

4)  Maybe you need to provide your insurance information to Luc and you two should go to family counseling.  (I guess we will just hope that Luc decides not to carry a weapon that day and end my life as he promised)

Anyone who has followed my story knows how incredibly ridiculous these statements are.

Next Steps – What does this mean moving forward?

Seven months ago this week, I was awarded sole physical and legal custody of my son.  When this occurred, I remember feeling a sense of relief knowing that at least I would be legally allowed to make important decisions about my son without the psychopath Luc trying to control us at every turn.  It was my understanding that when a judge awards legal custody to one parent over the other, he/she does this for an important reason.  In my case, the judge made it clear to Luc that he did not trust his judgement and that he was not the “mature parent”.

This weekend was one of the scariest weekends of my life and I learned a tough lesson – legal custody doesn’t mean much when the non-custodial parent refuses to acknowledge the law.  When the judge specified that I had legal custody and that Luc was irresponsible and immature, Luc must have teleported out of the court room and disappeared for that part.  He seemed to misunderstand what Legal Custody really meant.

Since the final Custody Order was submitted, I have weighed my options.  I have to consider the following things moving forward:


1)  As the only person financially responsible for baby boy, I cannot go into financial ruin in this custody war.


2)  I have to protect my son at all cost.


3)  Continuing to fight Luc, will also encourage him to fight back.  More time in court means more contact with this blood sucking monster.


Unfortunately, It is likely that my son will have another medical emergency of this nature.  In the event that this occurs, he deserves to have the comfort of his mother and the security of something as simple as HEALTH INSURANCE.  While it is impossible to change Luc’s psychosis and tendency to disregard the law, I can push for consequences to this behavior and raise it to the attention of the court.


After taking several days to calm down, I realized that I need to think smart.  No matter what I suggest, Luc will continue to disrespect the Court Order at the expense of my son.  This week, however, I will be drafting an emergency plan which includes an emergency card for him to hand to the hospital upon his arrival.  I will also draft a letter to his attorney reminding him that since I am the legal custodian, I am required to make medical decisions.  After making rational suggestions and citing medical advise, I am flipping this script on him.  Instead of making me look “nit picky” and “irrational”, I am going to look like the cooperative parent.  When he does this again, I will return to court with the proper ammunition and nail his boots to the ground and hold his accountable.


In the sea of chaos this past weekend, I had to fight long and hard not to go down the rabbit hole of crazy.  In the end, I realize that I need to stay one step ahead of Luc.  He is dangerous, but predictable.  While I have sole legal and physical custody, the Custody War is clearly not over.  Despite my lawyer’s negative comments, I will NEVER stop fighting for my baby boy.  Period.

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CappuccinoQueen, I am horrified to read of your experiences!!!! Horrified, thoroughly. And, the very, very sad fact is that the law firm should be working for YOUR best interests, and they didn’t. Your baby’s life was in jeopardy, and the spath lied simply because he could.

Dammit, this makes me feel very angry. “Parental Alienation” is an unfortunate excuse in many, many cases like yours. Once again, the “system” is of the belief that children “need both parents,” and this simply is NOT true.

Gosh, CappuccinoQueen, I wish I had some words of comfort for you. What, after all of the horrors, was causing the siezures? I sincerely hope that your baby is getting healthy and that it’s not anything that is going to require long-term care.

Brightest blessings to you and your son

I have so much to say on this topic, but at present, cannot/will not/choose not to (not really) but it’s what’s best, etc.

I will simply say this; you have the right idea. I applaud you. I applaud your fight. And I LOVE that you will never give up. The beautiful part is that there will come a day when you will “win” and Luc won’t even recognize it. Your attitude tells the tale.

Best wishes for your son. May he be well.


CappQueen ~

I feel exactly like Linda just said above – I too have so much to say, but just can’t even begin to put it all in words right now.

I have had experience with febrile seizures and understand everything you said about them, they are not all that uncommon, can be controlled, but at the same time terrifying to the caregiver.

My questions are some things for you to think about, don’t feel obligated to answer them on the blog because the last thing I want to do is to give you anything more to respond to.

Has he had febrile seizures prior to this, or is this his first? Was he feverish when he left for this visit or was this something that could have been brought about by conditions of neglect, like getting dehydrated or extremely overheated? Can you get copies of the 911 call and/or the paramedic report?

Did he sign the hospital consent for treatment form? If he did wouldn’t that be ILLEGAL?

I think your attorney’s are WAY out in left field with this one, I sincerely believe he could (correction SHOULD) be charged with child neglect for falsifying facts about the child’s medical condition. Just my opinion and after spending almost 10 years in and out of custody hearings/courts, my opinion usually doesn’t hold water.

I would take my time, talk to your child’s pediatrician and see if he/she would be willing to write you a note saying the baby should not be out and about (ie. visitation) when he is showing any signs of illness. I would let this whole thing set in my mind for awhile, before deciding what to do next.

All my respect and concern –

OMG – what a horror. Document everything. Maybe you’ll get a new judge who reverses that insane visitation arrangement.


What a horrible experience:( I do appreicate you sharing this with us. Thank God your son is okay!

I had never heard of the term Parental Alienation until my ex spath brought it to my attention this year. I’ve tried to adhere to “No Contact” and he threw Parental Alienation out there and said he suggests I “look into it” as the “court takes it very seriously.” He’s also creating a papertrail and coming up with false statements to “prove” his case. (I’ve been ingorning his useless texts and emails–obvious bullying and evidence of power & control on his part)

I spoke with a domestic violence advocate last month and shared my frustrations with her in regards to co-parenting with a sociopath. She said that just recently they have done away with regarding parental alienation as an actual “syndrome.”

It’s very unfortunate the law team isn’t supportive. If you owed them money or not, they should be standing up for what is right and lawful! Their statements are rediculous. I don’t think my own lawyer quite grasps where I am coming from. His response…”you married an a$$hole, you had 3 children with him, he’s always going to able to contact you, he’s always going to be an a$$hole.” Is there a resource available to us where we can find attorneys in our areas who specialize in dealing with psychopaths?!?! I’d love to find one!

It is definitely challenging at times to not display your emotions to the spath. I recently used the same term “Mama Bear protecting her cubs” in regards to a situation I had where I did display my emotions–I did scream the truth to him and his fiance. I do not regret it because she needed to hear what I had to say after they were both falsely accusing me and calling me names in my driveway, infront of my kids. She believes his entire smear campaign against me. Only a person telling the truth could have reacted the way I did. One day when his mask slips and she sees the red flags, she will remember what Mama Bear said that day. She will remember how passionate I was about the truth.

Your strength is admirable. Glad you will keep on fighting! That’s what us survivors must do. I understand where you are coming from when you say “dangerous, but predictable.” It’s amazing once you understand what you are dealing with, how you can predict their next move. I’ve done it many times myself. Although those predictions help alleviate surprises–they don’t bring comfort. Knowing you have to deal with more psychpathic BS is exhausting. Always being on your toes, always having to be one step ahead is necessary to protect our cubs, but it’s not an enjoyable way to live. My kids are only 10, 8 and 5. It seems never ending. God help us all!


One more thing you may think about doing is getting the names of the paramedics that were on the call and going to talk with them. Explain that Luc had just recently been allowed to have unsupervised visitation with baby boy and you had great concerns about his ability to parent in situations like this. You could personally ask how he was responding to baby boy and his general over all demeanor.

My husband is a retired paramedic and several of my close family members are also in similar occupations. I know they would have been more than happy to talk with you.

Again, just me thinking of anything that may benefit you.


Dear C’Queen, After beginning to read your update on your situation, as a mother (of 4) myself, I went from 0 to Livid in a heartbeat for you and your son! What you described about the hospital staff, and even the people at the “law firm” that has your case….proves my point that I’ve held for, since being involved with the spath I’m dealing with is….the FACT that “normal” everyday people (meaning the ones that have never encountered a spath, let alone be “the target” of one)….PEOPLE JUST DON’T GET IT! The average human mind cannot wrap itself around what these monsters are REALLY capable of!!!!!!!!! Ohhhhhh, how my heart goes out to you and your son!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You said: “I have to protect my son at all cost”. Absolutely…Positively! At all cost means ANY cost. I know the situation is extremely difficult and heart-wrenching. I’m just putting my opinion out here, but there MAY come a day….and the situation MAY worsen to the degree, that you just might have to “disappear” with your son. I can say that, because I was faced with situations when my kids were small. We all know how attorneys, and court systems are…and the cold-hard reality is, some may never find the “justice” and outcomes they so richly deserve. We all know life is not fair, and “doing the right thing” sometimes just does not mean squat! I pray you find Grace and Peace, as you endeavor to keep going on, and pray for Divine protection for your child. Best wishes for you and your boy……


Dear CappQueen ~

I apologize for three posts here, but I can’t get your situation off my mind this morning.

My above posts were meant as ideas for documentation if needed later down the road.

I think your “emergency plan” is an excellent one and the reasons behind it make perfect sense. This is something else you may want to think about – along with the emergency card for him to hand the hospital, how about printing out information on febrile seizures that you find on the internet medical sites. Make sure what you print are the things that make the condition look as serious as possible. Along with that, draft page after page of instructions he should follow, things to look out for, scary things that could possibly happen. The more things you can think of the better, suggest he learn CPR.

The reason I bring this up is because you said he had not even contacted the supervisor to check on how baby boy is doing. OK, we know he doesn’t care, but right about now he may be “spath thinking” that you are trying to saddle him with a “flawed child” and that this “game” is not one he wants to play anymore. This may be a very good time to sit back and see how things play out.

Little story – We were fostering a baby who was in the center of a custody battle. Mom wanted baby put up for adoption, Dad, who hadn’t given a darn until then decided to become involved with the child to “punish” Mom. Baby had some serious digestive problems that required LOTS of special care to prevent Failure to Thrive and even SIDS. By the time the case worker and I got finished explaining the baby’s problems, complete with charts and visual aids we let the Dad have his parenting time, which included feeding, being puked on, changing an unbelievable stinky diaper, holding baby upright for a half an hour and enduring endless baby crying. The next day he notified the case worker he was ready to sign the adoption papers. Oh, that baby is now my 30 year old son, he outgrew the digestive problem as soon as he could sit upright.

You never know !

Ox Drover

Dear C’Queen,

I can’t even IMAGINE THE HORROR of trying to “co-parent” with a monster….

I wonder though….(I am a retired Registered Nurse Practitioner) like Milo said

Has the baby ever had a seizure before?

Did he have a fever when the medic’s got to him? At the hospital? Was any seizure WITNESSED by medical personnel?

Was tox screen done on the b aby?

The “strange gait” you noticed….I wonder if that could have been something that Luc gave him (drugs of some kind) to CAUSE the seizure.


Find new lawyers those are MORONS


I smell a rat in this, true, the baby might have had an unprovoked seizure, kids do have, but it also might be caused for just this kind of DRAMA! Munchenhausen by proxy.

God bless, you Queen…and your son. (((hugs)))


CappQueen ~

Because our minds always reach into our own personal experiences, my first thought was the baby was left in a hot car.

I hope you do have an opportunity to speak to a different attorney.

1 – if he signed a consent to treat and he had no legal right to do that – that is a crime

2 – if gave false and misleading information to the treating medical professionals that untimately caused the baby to be released prematurely, without proper testing that endangered his health and welfare – that is neglect

3 – he made no attempt to immediately contact the supervisor so that you could be notified and been in contact with the first responders and hospital ER – that is neglect

Excuse me, “HELP HIM IN THE EVENT OF AN EMERGENCY” – He is participating in parenting time, if he is unaware of proper emergency proceedures, then his parenting time NEEDS to be supervised……… – that is a fact


Exactly, the medical insurance card is the least of it.

I always remember something I was told when in the battle, – don’t let anything go uncontested, take advantage of every little screw up on their part – you never know when that would be what gets you out and when you miss that window of opportunity it is gone forever.

As far as “looking good” in the eyes of the court, I’m not going to tell you that it is not important, BUT I looked like Mary Poppins 100% of the time, played by all their rules, cooperated in every way and it got me NO WHERE.

Will feel better with a second opinion, maybe we are all the crazy ones !!!!

Ox Drover

C queen,

My suggestion:

Have a letter written up as follows to be given to Luc (via hhis lawyers)

Medical information Baby Prince

Primary Custodial Parent
YOUR name, phone and address and attach copy of court order

Insurance COMPANY, AND ADDRESS and policy number (but not the card, though the hospital would want a copy, at least the INFORMATION WILL GET THINGS STARTED APPROPRIATELY

Primary care doctor’s name and address and phone number

DATE of birth, and any applicable medical history written by his doctor. Vaccinations, past hhistory of this seizure, etc.

then make sure that Luc has a copy through hs attorney so he can’t deny having it.

It will show that YOU TRIED TO DO THE RIGHT THING BY YOUR KID AND HIM, and if he fails to give the letter to the medical folks in the event he takes Prince to the ER again, then YOU will have copies to show them when you arrive…proving HE IS A LIAR AND A SACK OF SHIAT for saying YOU are not the custodial parent…

I am guessint that just the letter would stop him from trying to pull any carp about what a bad mother you are. Since it would show he is not primary custody.

wow. what a horrible WTF? experience. Like Linda and Milo, I have too much to say about this.

Luc is clearly one of those spaths that thinks he can create a new reality and forces others to believe what he believes.
When he says he believes he did nothing wrong and that he did not believe he was responsible to give your information to the hospital in a medical crisis, that reminds me of the spath that used to troll on Lovefraud. That spath would use words he didn’t understand and when I told him he didn’t know the correct definition of the word, he said, “I make up my own definitions for words.” Huh? WTF? But to a spath, that makes sense.

Your lawyers? OMG. unbelievable. total double speak. None of what they said makes any sense.

I think the problem is that Luc knows how to push your buttons and your biggest button is fear for your son. For all we know he caused baby boy’s fever by infecting him with something. Even if that isn’t the case, Luc now knows how to make the baby go into a seizure and he could use that to create more drama, just to see your reaction.

You have to practice gray rock. Take control but without emotion. Don’t give Luc ANY information about anything he doesn’t absolutely have to know.

I don’t know how long the visitations are but you might need to hire someone to stand by outside the building so that you know what is happening. Or buy a GPS tracking device for baby boy so that you always know where he is or if he is not where you expect him to be. Here is an example of one:

There are other GPS devices out there. It would be best to sew it into a coat so that Luc doesn’t know it’s there, ( or disguise it as something else.)

I feel for you Capqueen, nobody should have to go through that.

Ox Drover

Skylar, that is a GREAT IDEA!!!!! Wow, isn’t technology GREAT!

Wire the kid! GREAT IDEA!!! Well worth the trouble, could be put in a car seat or a diaper bag, or a coat, something that would be with the kid probably no matter where he took him.

They say two heads are better than one, but I think 1,000 heads of love frauders is even better than TWO HEADS. LOL

do some serious testing on the device before you put it into action.
This review explains:

You’re going to have to do some serious research to make it work, I think. There are lots of models to choose from.


Sky ~ what would we ever do without you ~~


(((hugs back)))

This is not a simple solution, it’s more of part of a package.

If he knows she has a tracking device on the child, he could even use it to create drama.

My exspath bought me a fancy car alarm, back in 1989. It had a pager so that if anyone touched my car, I’d get paged.
Then he would go jump on my car while I was at school just so he could watch me run out of my physics class to see who was messing with my car. There he’d be smiling at me. I thought it was funny too, but my teacher didn’t.

The point is though, that this will only work in conjunction with a no drama attitude. I know it’s almost impossible to not feel stressed when involved with a spath, but we can’t show it or it feeds them.


Trust me Sky, I’m a believer. I listened carefully to what you had to say (way back when) , thought you may be a wee bit crazy, but tried it anyways. You know the rest, it worked and it worked like NOTHING I had tried before. Take the shiny thing away from them and they crumble.

You are right, there is no simple solutions when a child is used as a pawn.

I believe CappQ is a remarkable young woman and will do all she can for her precious child. That is all any of us can do.


CappQ ~

Your lawyers are WRONG, your son deserves to be surrounded by loving, caring people in his life. He has that with you, your parents and extended family. He needs to feel safe and secure and consistency in his life. He has that with you. What he DOES NOT deserve is being subjected to a dangerous, toxic individual that just happens to be his sperm donor. YOU know that and don’t ever let anyone convince you otherwise.


Unflipping-believeable. And I agree with Ox: What a complete nightmare co-parenting with your “THING” (incidentally that is my new word for the SPATHS in my life….Thing1..Thing2..Thing3). The fact that he was there smearing you to unsuspecting medical personnel, to the contrary, really doesn’t shock me at all. That’s a part of their daily agendas. It’s THING’S Oscar award winning stage act to engage an audience in the mirage and hype, while not realizing they they have become snake charmers of the THING. I am just so glad you took a stance to protect your precious boy. Had it been your THING, he would not have even thought twice to check on the boy and if he did, it would have been for some sort of supply, maybe even to bash you while there to upset you even further as you were HUMANLY concerned, but he being BEASTLY motivated.

Thinking back and even now, I just wish I had lovefraud in my life a million years ago to identify what Thing1 was and even before I had his child and unfortunately produced Thing2. Some readers know of my story from 2008 (, but with counseling, support and alcohol rehab, I’m healing.

Thing2 now resides in a psychiatric facility where she also attends school for the oppositional defiant “at risk” child. I have joint legal custody of my son who is now 6 and I can’t tell you how happy I am having a non-pathological child and he fortunately survived 2 poisonings and a smothering at the hands of Thing2. I visit her as often as I can (well actually when I have the energy to engage in her her whoa-is-me act…staff hates her…other children are demons…social worker is a cruel bitch). I placed her there before and she conned me back into coming home and was ten times worse, but she was good at it, it took about 5 months for her mask to slip and me to uncover all of her lies, deceit, theft, sex (you know, just the normal things that THINGS do). Prior to that, Thing1 begged me to get her out of the system and said that he would take her but the reason why he couldn’t is because of an expired visa. Actually Thing1 painted a beautiful picture of himself to social services (who also charmed the snake). Once I got her back, it was one-excuse-after-another as to why he couldn’t take her in (i.e., he is homeless, no job, no means, no food., no visa, no car: all of which are lies I can prove because I am in contact with his current exiting M.D. professioned victim, but whatever!!!)and yet again, when it was time for me to return her to the facility, he once again pretended that he wanted to help. I just take everything at face value with THINGS and call a spade-a-spade. I won’t sugar coat what Thing1 or Thing2 really ARE and I am often vilified by social services for it, but whatever, they are all a bunch of clueless robots anyway.

I’ve gone 2 months without seeing her and the reason why is because my current boyfriend (an absolute saint and normal) was victimized by her and has never met her. She told psychiatric staff that he was outside the facility whistling at her while she walked back to her ward as I exited through security, but yet she can’t describe what he looks like and social services called me and asked why I continued to make poor decisions in men. Note my last boyfriend I had she accused him of rape and he spent a week in jail before they could prove that it was a complete fabrication, but STILL, she still holds on to the lie to this VERY day saying how I’m insensitive about her rape when I ask for answers to obvious inconsistensies in her better than “Stephen King” fiction, and even point out her incorrect description of his penis, social services steps in and tells me I am not allowed to discuss the past and that it upsets Thing2 when I question her? LIKE OMG and wtf???). F’n A! LOL. THINGS so hate being cornered. ROTFL. They hate it in even the most critical, let’s-put-it-on-the-table….let’s call it BINGO, let’s call it crown me or check mate situations.

It slipped that I have a significant other when he called me at visitation and she asked if I could take her for an outing and we could all hang out with my boyfriend she has never met (OMG, her predatory hunting eyes were in full gear). I told her that it would never happen in a million years and said it non chalantly but staring directly into her soul as she does to others, while observing her predatory “I’m on the prowl” 4th of July eyes (we all know those ones, the ones that just scream, I’m on a mission). She called me the same day to tell me she doesn’t want to talk to me anymore.

Fast forward 2 months, she has been blowing up my phone and I have ignored her completely. The social worker left me a message just today stating “you are all that she has, no one else sees her and she is all alone in this world.” I called back leaving a message and said, “call Thing1 and tell him to visit her”. I also went on to say that I’m all she has because staff there don’t like her, she pisses off the other children and my family and friends want nothing to do with her. I guess that it has finally dawned on them that Thing1’s lies and alibis are all premeditated and simply a sick, twisted game. It did make me feel guility for a bit, but then I started having flashbacks of all the misery Thing2 has caused me in her 14 years of life.

Protect your boy. Use this site as a resource and read Dr. Leedom’s material about “at risk” children because the disorder is definitely genetic and no one can convince me otherwise. For me, it’s too late for her. I really miss the child that I knew from birth to about age 5. When people see me out with my boy, they ask, “Is that the only one you have?” and I respond with “yes” because really it is. I am happy; however, that I have my son and I would die and go to hell for him, but unfortunately for her, I’m just fulfilling an obligation kind of like what THINGS do (treating others like an object that you have to maintain) only because social services won’t terminate my parental rights, but even with all that she has done, I still care what happens to her and will say goodbye to her when she turns 18. Take care and God Bless. Just remember and absorb, they are THINGS, and I define them as something unnatural, skin crawling, lysol and Raid spraying cochroach worthy. And you know what, I’ve been infested (other readers, please cut me some slack if you do not understand what I have been through) but I am still seeing Thing2’s psychologist to help me cope and be R-E-A-L about real-life “pestilence” the bible speaks of. Before getting real (imagine this), I waited in the parking lot to bash her psychologist over the head and hide her body when she told me initially she saw something “dark” in Thing2. What a conundrum!

Ox Drover

Dear Processing,

I share your frustration at how our society handles these kids that in some cases are out of control by age 6 or 7, others not til teen years. I’ve worked with some of them inpatient and the GLEE in their eyes at the things they either have done or plan to do is CHILLING.

Many of these kids are adopted into good, caring families, so are not problematic because they are neglected or abused, yet, they come from “problematic” backgrounds where the genetics come through even in the good homes in which they were parented after birth.

I’m glad that you are able to keep her in the residential facillity in which you are reasonably safe from her. I’m afraid, given what I know now, I would not be able to make myself “visit” her. I visited Patrick in prison for so long and at such great cost (in money and time and emotions) and I am so glad that I no longer even WANT to see him or be connected to him. And there were years when I wrote him daily, making him PART OF MY LIFE…and now I think of him seldom.

I am glad that your younger son is safe from your daughter. That YOU are safe from her. God bless.



My response is not intended by me to be “all about me,” though that’s the way it starts: my immediate reaction to what you wrote was, “hmmm…. yep. I see nothing unusual at all here.”

My second reaction was, “….WHOA! Did I just think that? What I life I’ve obviously been living all these years, ‘co-parenting’ with my ex-spath!”

In other words, you triggered in me the realization that your horrifying experience is so horrifyingly, repeatedly familiar to me, over a span of many years, that it actually seemed normal at first glance. And it’s NOT. It’s HORRIFYING.

I get that, and I guess that is my preamble to say (maybe like Linda and some others said? not sure because they actually didn’t say what they were thinking but wouldn’t/couldn’t say) — that is my reaction: That I have SO MUCH to say… and can’t really. But it goes along those lines, that you are so clearly “living this (horror story of a) life” that I have lived and grown accustomed to.

And after so many years of this “normal,” yeah, I guess, it is actually sort of …. NORMAL.

It is what it is, you do what you have to do, you deal with what it is. You WILL. And I can see that you ARE.

Bless you, that you are awake (not dissociating) and fighting back, using your brain, using your resources, working so hard to figure this out and fight for your baby boy. I can tell how much you love your son, and I can tell that you won’t give up — ever.

I have never given up, either. My kids are now 18 and 16 and 16. I continue to fight. I’m much better at it now than I used to be. I’m past the stage of shock. Past the stage of dissociating. Past the stage of illusions. It took me a long time, though.

At this point, my kids are old enough to fight their own battles with their dad. He did NOT win. He accused me of parental alienation which I have NEVER done (in fact, the opposite; for years I tried and tried to facilitate the kids’ relationship with their dad, because I mistakenly believed the experts that they had a right to a relationship with him, and vice versa).

One day several years ago, spath remarried and told me to “butt out” of his relationship with the kids (trying to facilitate and mend and explain for him and encourage them to keep trying). So I did.

And the kids immediately started seeing their dad for who he is, and they began avoiding him. And spath accused me of parental alienation.

He did all the alienating, himself.

I pray for a good outcome for you and your son. I do believe you are entirely on the right track.

What has gotten easier for me over the years is that I no longer take anything the spath does personally, so I do not react emotionally. (gray rock is automatic). And I see “farther” than he does, so I can react to him as if in slow-motion, and my actions and reactions are deliberate and make sense, and his are more from the hip and show his puniness as an opponent.

(I try not to play the game — ever — but if my kids are in danger, I will make my protective “mama bear” moves to protect them).

The best thing I have ever done for my kids over the years, from a very young age, is teach them to protect themselves, for those times when they were with their dad and I couldn’t be there. I taught them independence and critical thinking and to stand up for themselves. And that I love them absolutely, no matter what, all the time, forever.

I know you can do this, CappucinoQueen — you already are!


20 years, I’ve been an on-and-off blogger since 2008, M.I.A. since Fall 2009 until Fall 2011, although I always kept LF on the burner somehow, even if the back one. For heaven’s sake, being the daughter, ex-wife, sister and mother of THINGS, it just sort of rubs off wanting to get so much off our chest. LOL

CQ, that maternal instinct, bond and intuition with your son reduces me to sentimental tears, like honestly. Through constant research, It appears that the gene is a hit and miss sort of deal and I pray that you have a miss (seems like it). You feel that bond and girlfriend, I say RUN with it and keep doing what you are doing for lil man. My THING mother (aka Thing3), only hit 1 out of 4 of us! But for me, I have given up and I know that I appear hard ass, but secretly, I really and truely do hope that Thing2 will “blend” and maybe even accomplish a real THING job like PRESIDENT, MESSIAH or PROPHET.

But seriously CQ, OMG. THINGS rarely become murderous BUT ARE ALWAYS MONSTOUROUS, but if your ex THING is in this case, OMG RUN, HIDE….

Ox, miss you, but I’ve been checking almost once a week on the topics and I see you there and ya should be changing that Ox to Ad (as in advocate). This one was one I really needed to respond to. And a little revelation, it totally got to me so much before when I began to “let go”, especially the ridicule of teachers, social workers and countless others, who are clueless and uneducated. (OMG, forgive them father, for they know not what they do).


CappucinoQueen, everyone’s situation is unique and at the same time, there are these universalities. The more stories that are shared here, the more the patterns seem to emerge. Yet, you are in the middle of YOUR situation and I know, it is hard to THINK while you are being mama bear!

The situation that you seem to be in (from what you have shared) is that you have mama bear turned ON (as should be, your son is fortunate to have you) because there is very real danger. At the same time…. this time in your life is hard for ANY mother, so… you are being tough for your son’s sake, while you are flashing back to your own experiences as a kid. Do you have time or luxury to dwell on the things that any mother would be going through at this time of her life, giving birth and having your son’s father TURN AWAY? What a grieving thing! What a sad, awful thing! Do you even have time to address that? I’m so sorry…. I know those feelings from experience.

You sound very in touch with what is going on and what you are feeling, and it is from that that I have a good sense that you and your son will be OK. But you will have a wild ride ahead of you.

Well, that’s how I see it some of the time… God gives us all “horses” (circumstances is what I mean) and some are gentler and tamer than others. Some are spirited, and some are downright wild. So you ride the horse you are given, and don’t waste time wondering how come you didn’t get the gentle, calm one. If you can figure out how to ride yours, you will make a shift in perception and get to the place where you can “think” and “ride” at the same time, and you will be able to act “in the moment” and it becomes more satisfying when you can do that.

None of this is easy, though.

Sometimes I look back over the last 20 years or so and wonder why I’m still standing. In other moments, I realize others have had it much, much worse than I have.

I’ve also had friends who have had what appears to be 20 perfect, easy, joyful years with a loving spouse who then suddenly (much too young and unexpectedly) dies — and they are thrown into the deepest, paralyzing shock. At this point…. I’m not sure anything can shock me much anymore. I’ve already had so much awful stuff thrown at me.

But by normal… so much awful stuff, after a point, you just find a way to live and enjoy your life and appreciate the beauty in it and in others. You can come to discern true beauty and pick it out of all the distracting rubbish. What’s really important, like the love between you and your son.


I am so sorry for the trauma you and your little one have been put through with this latest issue.

I am glad you are familiar with the medical problems your son is having as that tends to lighten up the fear when we know of the condition and know it can be benign for the most part.

As far as Luc, he is infuriating and horrifying when we hear of what he does but it is so typical of these monsters that it just validates and revalidates he is that hollow shell of flesh.

The advice you’ve been given and the thoughts you have come up with after the fact on how to handle the future going forward with him concerning this sounds all spot on. I did think when Oxd, gave you the advice of giving copies of your sons medical info along with instructions you should probably make one more copy for the supervisor. Just seems like it can’t hurt.

I want you to know my $300 per hour attorney who I hired at first and who got most of all of my money I had managed to save in the beginning of my custody case and who was considered a pitbull, old timer in the system, acted the very same way with me when I had valid issue with the father. My attorney after spaths deposition told his secretary spath was a piece of shiat point blank. He knew what I was dealing with but there was this underlying opinion that I heard verbally in the beginning which stayed while spath terrorized us and it was “you slept with him” or “you felt he was good enough to have a child with” so it is almost like you are getting what you asked for in these attorneys minds. They are so detached from the emotion and the childs wellbeing, they can only see you are mom and he is dad and even when I gave detailed accounts of near death issues, it seemed like because I was there able to tell the story, it was irrelevent. Must not be that bad if you are still talking and walking.

I cried many times in shock in my attorneys parking lot unable to drive from the disrespect shown to me and disregard of my daughters wellbeing. My attorney at one point said he knew I was a good mother as my child was still doing well but I looked like hell so I was taking the hits instead of letting her take them. This was true as much as humanly possible. These court cases are the marathon of abuse I never thought I could endure.

You are on the right track and I think pumping up the “job” caring for your childs condition and the “risk” Luc may be facing could turn him off. They don’t want to be caught with a child that took a turn for the worse in their care that can be pinned on them. It takes the fun out of the game as this is truley something he can’t control. I hope for you it gets him off your back.

I wish you all the peace and money you need to get through this. I lost most everything after my 3 and a half years of protecting my daughter. I am left trying to figure out how to survive now with our lives in this way.

I no longer have representation as I can’t afford an attorney anymore but my case slowed down right then also as I think spath thought he won something when I was sanctioned by our new judge….. Who knows. But stepping back and thinking smart is the best thing you can do. Don’t beat yourself up for emotional outbursts though when they do occur as it is work for us to be “on” all the time preparing for their antics or attempting to act differently than our nature.

Wishing you all the best.


Ox Drover

Tdprocessing, I am glad that you are still here and glad that you have finally managed to get some stability in your life regarding your daughter.

Having worked with these children professionally in an inpatient setting it is scary to think about going to bed at night with a child like that in the house…wondering when they will burn it down on your head.

My Uncle Monster was at age 7 (from the stories of his behavior that I finally got out of the family) a DANGEROUS child, and of course he grew up to be a dangerous, monsterous man. I’m not sure that anything would have changed the situation.

My P-sperm donor had 4 children and out of the 4 of us, I think only one is like “daddy dearest” and he admires the very hateful mean murderous qualities that made sperm donor a Psychopath. I haven’t been around the other 3 kids since they were 12, 13 and 8, but I remember that the 8 year old was scary even then. I was only 17 myself at the time, but the youngest would come home each day with his clothes torn off his body from fighting with other kids. He was a straight A student and obedient to his teachers, but the fighting all the way home from school was scary, and the more I look BACK on it, the scarier it was.

I hope your daughter can stay in that school until she hits 18 and you can disengage from her….but don’t bet that she will disengage from you. She very well may not.

I keep you in my prayers and I wish you well in all things. God bless.


Maybe your parting gift to your attorney should be the book “Snakes In Suits”!!


That book (and Without Conscience) were a godsend to me, in the aftermath of my first P experience. I met first spath in the real estate firm we had both worked with, and wow, what an experience that was. He took me for everything I had. He groomed me, set me up, we became partners, then he love bombed the Hell out of me, we had a 10 month intimate relationship. He took my business, clients, heart, soul, trust, faith, hope, self worth. One day, still without knowledge of PS’s, his “mask slipped”. Of course I had no knowledge of that term, at the time. I simply inquired about some of his behaviors, and wow, the rage was horrifying, literally. I called my sister. Told her what had happened, and that I was shocked. She said “he sounds like a Psychopathic sex addict”. I googled “Psychopathic” and low and behold, he had traits on the list. I saw the book “Snakes in Suits” mentioned on the same website, along with “Without Conscience”, and the knowledge I gained from those books helped my Psyche so much, plus I found them highly fascinating. Still pick them up and read then, on occasion. They are like bibles, of sorts. Blessings to all. Hope you all had a great day!


Ox, it was a tradgedy but a blessing going to bed at night with her! She almost burned the house down frying corn dogs and french fries when I told her she was not allowed to even be in my kitchen, but she still did it in her selfish (all about me) self gratification. That night, I went home drunk and after I passed out, the kithen almost burned downed! That was my beginning of social workers in my life after the fire department dispatched the police.

The above incident resulted in so much recovery. It’s completely ironic that the incident landed me in an ideal situation that I thought at first was a definite suicidal prompt. But OMG, I’m still here!!!! She has been monitored since the incident with so much red tape and intervention, even though I was charged with “child endangerment”. But it got me in the system! Something that could not have happened with a simple plea for help. I had to be the bad guy! A woman who LOVED to get drunk at night and pass out afterwards while living with Rosemary’s baby! I mean, please don’t sympathize with the fact I produced Thing2 from Thing1. I am the daughter raised by a sadistic SP, Thing3.

Shane, the book by Dr. Hare is like completely insightful. It’s from a clinical standpoint, not based on an everyday life sort of situation dealing with THINGS. It was there I discovered the disorder and it all came to me about my mother (Thing3), My brother(deceased), my first husband (Thing1) and my daughter (Thing2).

I feel so bad for ANYONE dealing with this pathology that do not know what in the name of GOD is going on? It is so baffling to say the least.

But my “Ad” aka Ox, it seems like 1 out of 4 is more than 4 percent of the population that “Realist” believe. But as a wise, urban hombre said, “Don’t hate the player, hate the game.” I swear that was a wise hypothesis deducted by a baffled supply! LOL


You are so right. There are so many out there who are unaware, and until one has personally been slimed, there is no depth for them, in terms of the true definition of a P and their existence. So glad that you have the knowledge, and are doing all of the right things for yourself and your son. I read your story last night, as well as the article that you wrote, a while back. I am at the tail end of the aftermath of a second P relationship, which thankfully only lasted 3 and a half months, since this one was far worse (and much different), than the first . I have truly learned so much, which in turn is the GIFT I have received from these 2 entities. Onward and Upward. Yay!

tdprocessing and shane,
I love how you are both able to see the gift.
It’s a gift, not from the spath, but a gift we give ourselves by taking knowledge and becoming stronger for it. The spaths intended us to lay down and die from the experience. My spath was intent on my suicide, either by my own hand or with a little help from him. I guess I was a disappointment to him. lol.

Yes, it’s true shane, that someone who hasn’t experienced it, can’t fathom it. Even after experiencing it, I still didn’t understand it. I was lucky that I ran into someone who explained it to me and then there were all the books and LF to help me along. Without this assistance, I likely would have been conned into going back, unable to conceive of a human being completely without conscience or empathy, filled with sadistic desire and envy that rotted his heart.

It sounds impossible, but that actually describes him accurately.

That’s why it’s so important to help each other and to educate as many people as we can.


Shane, just like different races, we are all one species but certain things differ (not totally), not entirely, but just a tad bit, yet within the same spectrum; however; in essence, we are all the same. Makes me wonder what the pure white butterfly says to the purple and green one that has beautifully formed gold diamonds on it (OMG you “purple & green word”). Victimization is never different, because targets are all the same.



Mine wore a holey condom thank you very much!

I wanted so much to ask “and did you do a background check on every girl you………” Well you know how that would end. It’s a double/triple standard. I can defend my actions all day long but it doesn’t change how they treat us.

I don’t know of any more humiliating degrading experience anyone has gone through. The children are at the bottom of the pile never having asked to be here or part of the adult mistakes we have made and I wish that could be the mentality but nope.

My attorney literally abused me too. He was a type A personality who’s face would turn red and he’d yell at me and email me on the weekends in all caps as if I had not paid him. I have had business partners just like him and told him so. It’s a love/hate thing but I had hope he would love me enough to want to protect me from the sociopath. Instead he believed any man who bothers to get into a childs life should get something. The beginning worst thing was when my daughter first met the father in a supervised abusive setting, he showed her his pictures on his phone and one was a picture of “his naked harry butt”!!! My daughter was 10 and had never seen a naked mans harry butt! For 10 months they said she was lying about it until I said I had evidence. (didn’t know if she forwarded it to me I think) It then became a picture of his crease in his underarm???? Whatever. These guys never stop and their disgusting behavior knows no bounds………………


Ox Drover

TDprocessing, I can understand the fear of the daughter…but I hope that now that she is gone you no longer feel the need to self medicate with alcohol, but looks like this is a blessing in disguise that got you and her plugged into the system.

It took my son trying to have me killed to wake me up and make me act…and make me stop my unhealthy behaviors and thinking.


CappuccinoQueen, you know this whole experience that you’ve had with the emergency room staff and procedures makes me want to throw an all-out kiniption fit.

I know that you have enough on your plate without taking on another helping, but I’d probably consider threatening a lawsuit against the hospital where the spath took your baby. Not necessarily for money, but to “enlighten” this facility.

As for your attorneys, they’re bogus and are only seeing your case with dollar signs in their pupils, IMHO. They’re dragging things out and dismissing your concerns without missing a beat. How did you find this firm? Were they recommended by the Bar Association, or were they recommended by someone you knew?

Bless your heart, CappuccinoQueen – I had my own experiences with Family Court, and I eventually threw in the towel. I didn’t have the emotional or financial stamina to keep up the fight, so I surrendered. UGH.

Brightest blessings


Capp Q ~

Does the county court where the case is being heard have a GAL program? If it does, see if you can get a list of attorney’s who are GAL’s. Check and see what portion of their work is done IN THAT COURT. That is the most important part, picking someone who knows THAT COURT, inside and out and is also respected by the magistrates and judges in THAT COURT. Even though we had a terrible experience with our last GAL, our attorney, another I talked with about our case and our previous GAL were all outstanding custody attorney’s that really got the big picture.

You may also do some research and see if you can find a former prosecutor for Children’s Services who is now in private practice. They are usually very good in these cases, understanding what spath parents are like.

Both of our attorney’s also had backgrounds in mental health, one almost had her PhD in forensic psy and the other had an undergrad degree is psychology. That also helps.


everything with these fools is a battle, usually at the cost of the child and the mother… their only aim IS the battle.. it keeps them alive… my only hope is that your son will grow big, strong and healthy, be able to stand upto his father, be your support (emotional, financial, moral)… and together the two of you can show the snake his place after 10 years…

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