The blogger, Sir William, has a post ”˜What is evil? which employs what is a very common way of talking about psychopathy and evil.
Psychopaths do exist but they are not fully human: they are animals who lack one of the qualities which defines our species.
This is a very comforting explanation for those who have been on the receiving end of psychopathy. It seems to answer the question how could someone do something like that? Answer, because they’re not really a ”˜someone’. They’re actually and animal, not a human being.
How does this line of thinking account for evil committed by non-psychopaths?
When an ordinary person does bad things to another person they must, on some level, believe they are acting for a greater good, because to hurt without that excuse is insane. The greatest source of evil is not therefore crazy people, but sane people driven insane by a belief. Whether that belief turns out to be true or false is immaterial, it is the belief itself that causes us to act without empathy. Any time we cause pain in search of a greater good – for safety, for God, for profit – we have temporarily lost the one quality that defines us, and we cease to be fully human.
So, when a regular person commits an evil act they are actually insane and not fully human. But even our courts excuse crimes committed on grounds of insanity when a person doesn’t know the difference between right and wrong. It still leaves the vast majority of crimes and other evil acts are not of that nature. Each one of us knows very well when we do something wrong; we might rationalise it away, but deep down we know that we did it because we preferred doing the bad thing to doing the good thing.
I can’t go along with this animal/insane line of thinking. First, it does not accurately describe either human beings or animals! The fact is that human beings are capable of being evil (and good), animals are not. As Chesterton said: human beings are always the exception – we are always better than or worse than animals, never the same. Second, it is tantamount to saying there is no such thing as evil by full human beings.
The terrifying reality is that psychopaths are human beings and that we all commit evil because we want to and choose to, all of which is not to say that there’s no difference between the regular person and psychopath. It’s mind-bending and paradoxical, I know.
Dr. Steve,
I get exactly the intended message, but it often seems that even animals have more empathy and understandable intent than a sociopathic emotional vampire. At least when animals kill, it is survival instinct – for food, safety, territory, etc… Usually not for the pure ‘evil’ sport or game of it. These ‘people’, to me, are a pure enigma – freaks of nature. They toy with people for the sport of it, completely uncaring of how it effects them other than to keep them hanging on in order to toy with them, use them in any means possible, and destroy their self esteem more and more. Truly a pathetic and sadistic existence to never really ever be able to bond with another, feel authentic love, share both your inner and outer world with another. To never feel that level of sharing and true commitment; but rather to revel in a superficial, shallow existence. Don’t misunderstand, I don’t so much pity them because I do believe that they understand right vs. wrong, but still CHOOSE to lie, cheat, steal, manipulate on/to those they know care about them. They are sick, twisted, evil freaks of nature.
also wanted to add: that when a ‘normal’ person hurts someone else, their conscience usually does not let them ‘get away with it’. A sociopath has not a conscience, which allows them to exact evil without reservation, looking completely innocent before, during and after – even though it is a CHOICE and they understand the emotional and/or physical consequences for their victim.
I think that when most ‘normal’ people hurt others, it is either unintentional, or in the midst of overwhelming emotions – hurt, betrayal of trust, etc… In a certain sense, provoked. A sociopath needs no provocation other than his or her own sense of greed, envy, pride, gluttony, lust, sloth, or anger. ‘normal’ people’s focus is on the other; where as the sociopath’s focus is ultimately and always on themselves.
i think they hear us tell them how much pain they cause, but have no idea of the depths or how crippling it is, because they have never ever had any feelings. so what is pain to them, just a word that costs them nothing…..this is not a pass for them, just an attempt to understand for us
newworld,
I just finished reading ‘Without Conscience’ by Dr. Robert Hare. In it he described how sociopath’s do not react with emotional responses like most people do; they do not have the same understanding of ‘pain’ that most people have. So, again, I don’t believe causing pain is motive but rather whatever they perceive they will get from their actions. In some ways, I can understand that thinking… I mean I am ambitious and motivated in my profession and at work – but still not to the point of truly harming someone else ; and most certainly in close family or romantic relationships – that is not how I view things…. Which is why I think it is so it’s hard for most of us to grasp how others can be that way.
Trying to truly understand the mind of a psychopath, I think is truly as impossible for us as for them to comprehend ours.
I can observe the behavior of a dog, a cow, a horse, but I can not truly understand how they think, or how they feel, or what their emotions are. I have seen cows grieve for their calves when the calf is take away. I have seen dogs grieve for their masters, and grieve for the loss of companion dogs, or even grieve for the loss of a cat. I can observe this behavior and infer what the underlying emotion is in “human terms,” but I can’t really KNOW how they think and feel.”
I think we can observe the psychopath’s behavior, and in some ways infer how they think by the behavior the same way we observe animal’s behavior and infer their thoughts and emotions. But fully understand what it is to have no conscience? I don’t think we can understand what it is to have no conscience any more than they can understand what a conscience is.
A person who is born blind can never have a sense of color, or a person who is born deaf can’t have a sense of sound (only some vibrations) because they have no reference for understanding colors or sounds. The psychopath has no reference point for conscience. He sees “us” reacting to grief by crying, or reacting to other emotions, and he learns (as Hare says) he learns the words, but not the tune. He can simulate certain emotions, and learns by trial and error that some of these simulated displays will get him/her the reward that they want, but they are simply acting, they can’t feel it.
The joy that they seem to feel with manipulation and inflicting pain on others, in addition to also getting whatever reward they are after in terms of control, money, sex, I also don’t understand either. How could anyone enjoy seeing another person or an animal suffer? How could they have no compassion? I can’t comprehend seeing anything suffer and not feeling some compassion for it. Even an animal that I intend to kill (for whatever reason) I can’t tolerate the thought of that animal hurting or being afraid of death or injury. Yet, if an animal must be put down or killed for food, I have no problem doing this as long as it is done humanely.
I no more understand how my P-son thinks, or how my P-bio father thought. I know what some of their “goals” are or were, I know some of the things that they will or would do to get those goals acheived. I know that my P-son expresses pride in how “horrible his crime was.” But I still don’t know what that means, how that feels to enjoy hurting or killing someone, much less something, even an animal.
It is almost like we are trying to communicate on an intimate level with someone from another planet, or in two languages. They attach no real “meaning” to words like love, care, etc. because they don’t have corresponding brain waves and feelings to go attach to these words.
If you are hooked up to a lie detector or to an EEG, and if you are shown cards with words like love, hate, cancer, flower, etc. you have brain waves and reactions to these words, because you attach meaning to them. The psychopath does not, they have a “flat line” because there are no emotions attached to words of emotional impact to the rest of us.
That is a ‘hard wired” thing, as well as training. If you put these same words up, but in French (which I don’t speak) they would have no meaning for me either because I don’t know those words in french and attach any meaning to that series of letters or that sound.
I know that my son seeks “status” and adoration, but he also enjoys the chase, like the cat playing with the prey. It is more “fun” for him to put one over on someone who is a challenge–yet when he has completed it, he despises the victim for being weak.
My son knows what other people think is “right” and “wrong.” He knows that the law and moral code of our culture prohibits murder, yet he is proud that he did it. Right and wrong by our standards, he thinks, do not apply to HIM. Yet, it is wrong for you to lie to him, but okay for him to lie to you. It is okay for him to trick or con you, but it is not okay for you to trick or con him. It is admirable for him to control you, yet he refuses to be controlled or influenced by anyone else. Only superior physical force can contain his violence.
He has no emotions that I can detect other than hate, rage and frustration, or glee. But again I say, I can only guess at his emotions by observing his behavior. I can’t really know what or how he thinks.
How can he be anything except EVIL? How can he have any other choice? I have a choice to act honorably or dishonorably, and if I chose to act dishonorably I know that I made that choice. He doesn’t have a moral compass to violate. He apparently just does whatever he thinks is beneficial to his own goals without concern for the consequences on others. When, I on the other hand, make a choice, I generally chose to consider the consequences of my behavior as compared to my own code of moral conduct, and to consider the consequences to others. If I violate my own code of moral conduct, my guilty feelings kick in and tell me that my behavior is unacceptable. He doesnt appear to have this inner “brake” to keep his behavior in line with morality.
While his biology is “mostly human” he does lack this important component, he is defective in the quality that gives mankind a “higher purpose” in existence than merely “animal existence.” Maybe on an evolutionary level when food was scare and women not always available, this lack was actually a benefit in spreading his genetic material. For the psychopath to have survived and prospered, to have reproduce and passed on these genes that we now consider “defective” maybe at one time in prehistory it was a benefit.
In a civilized society it can be a benefit or can be a liability depending on many circumstances. Eliiot Spitzer obviously found his psychopathic traits beneficial in climbing the corporate and political ladder by climbing over the backs of others ruthlessly, but in the end, it brought his career to an end. My son on the other hand, didn’t use his outstanding intellectual talents and ended up in prison early in life, so for him it was a detriment.
OxDrover,
Very interesting, yet sad, when you think about all the implications/consequences surrounding the S and their targets/victims. I am almost tempted to write “intended or not” at the end of that sentence, as it would seem that it would/could apply….?
What amazes me is that my S was able to perfectly describe the alleged abuse/neglect that he endured, during his childhood years….scenarios/details/specific dates along with the hurt/pain/emotions that they caused him. You will notice that I noted “ALLEGED” in my comment, though. I have met his parents and they are absolutely wonderful, hard-working Church goers, who live in a small countryside community.
While I have not ventured/inquired on “their side of the story”, I can almost bet my life that it would be complete fabrications/lies from the S….but how? How does a human mind conceive these type of scenarios/details/distortions? And, at what age is their brain “recreating” such distorted “realisms” to them?
The same would also apply (fabrication of detailed accounts of abuse) for the rest of their adult relationships, of course….which many of us know, is typical in the victims quest to “save” and for once in their lives, love these “poor souls”.
If we know that conscience is absent in an S/P, due to wiring/development of their brains, would other parts of the brain then be more developed, to enable these fabrications/distortions/lies? The creative side of the brain? Other parts of the brain (intellectual)? In my case, the S in my life was extremely intelligent….read a lot and was able to remember dates in history/quotes/etc in a flash.
Also, what research is being done to come up with treatment for these S/Ps? Is there one currently available…or close to it? If you could point me to books/research/sites on this matter, please do…very interesting.
Don’t get me wrong here….I have no intentions of going back with my S, in order to try to “figure this out/fix it”…. just curious. I know, all too well, that these are the exact reasons why I was targetted and become the victim to the S/P…..my compassion/my empathy/my caring/my love/my support/my belief in him…..something that, according to him, he had NEVER been given in his life, until ME. As I write this, I can just hear so many of you say, “Holy SH_T, this is what I was told” or “Do these people have a manual on this stuff, or what?”
Finally, I’d like to add that it is Day 14 (not that anybody’s counting,lol) in my newfound freedom….getting better every day….NC for last 2 days (no emails from him). Must of made myself pretty DAMN CLEAR on my last email to him. LOL.
This site is one of the blessings (especially you, OxDrover) for my road to recovery, along with my family/friends (who are so happy to have ME back) and newfound friends from other outdoor/wilderness canoe forums. The support that I am receiving is wonderful and humbling to me.
I am TRULY BLESSED!
I see those with personality disorders in two ways. On a simplistic level, if a human being is likened to a jigsaw puzzle with all the pieces, I see those with PDs missing some fundamental pieces and then constructing all sorts of compensating and deviant behaviour to ‘appear’ as though they have a full deck. I also see them as a sub-culture.
DEar Freebird,
Thank you for those kind words.
As far as the”alleged” abuse, it is one of those things that even though his parents appear to be good “church-going kind etc” YOU NEVER KNOW what is behind it–they may be like my mother and COVER it well. I am apparently the ONLY one who has ever seen the TOXIC side of my mother’s enabling. Anyone else in the world would view her as “angelic”—that is also part of the problem with Ps and their Proxies–you may be the only one to perceive they are EVIL—and if everyone else says they are “wonderful” and you are saying and thinking “they are evil”—is your “reality” the truth or is everyone else’s reality the truth? THAT IS CRAZY MAKING. I am finally realizing that it doesn’t matter if the entire world thinks my mother is Mother Theresa, I KNOW THE TRUTH, I have seen her take off the mask and the gloves. I have felt the blows she delivered as proxy for my P-son.
Freebird, I am glad that you are NC, and keep remembering that ANY contact will make things go backwards—even reading an e mail. If you must have dealings with him, for financial reasons, etc. keep them as limited as possible, and remember HE IS THE LIE.
As far as I know there is no real way at this point other than observe behavior to diagnose them, and until there is a way to diagnose them medically, find a drug that will replace the missing chemicals or to stimulate the receptors, the “cure” or “control” for them is way out there. I do have hope that in the future there may be one though, but it most likely needs to be administered when they are young before they have learned bad behavior=pleasure.
It is amazing to me the available medications for all kinds of mental illnesses and defects–if the people will take the medications. Sometimes they refuse and unless they are an immediate danger to themselves or others there is no way to legally force them to. That is why now that people with severe mental illnesses are walking the street unmedicated because as long as they are not an immediate threat, they must be released even if it doesn’t make SENSE because they have repeatedly quit their medication the 50 other times they have been released. But that is our law.
Glad, SO glad that you are doing well Freebird–(((hug))))and it will only get better as time goes on. Stay strong and use every support that you have and BE KIND TO YOURSELF.
Freebird,
Congrats on going no contact! It is a big step and hard to take. It is so great that you’re getting his toxic influence out of your life. Stay committed and strong. We know you can do it. 🙂
I have often considered the possibility that they might be more “gifted” in the lying/manipulation department. But I think that ultimately it is just a matter of “practice makes perfect.” Many authors and other creative people can create whole worlds in their stories and make up plausible plotlines for them. But those same people might not be able to lie well because it grates on their conscience and makes them feel guilty. I think our aversion to lying and deception makes us bad at it, not so much our inferiority in those areas. But who knows, they should do a study on this.
Anyway, keep reading here and keep posting to let us know how you’re doing. Your progress is inspiring!
I have been reading this blog for many months and the stories here are an inspiration to me. I finally broke off my relationship after four years of deceit and pain. The “no contact” aspect of healing is hard because this “person” is now a member of my daughter’s family by marriage.
It’s been very hard on everyone, especially with the close relation issue.
Glad I found this place in which to share my story and revel in my healing process.