I do much couples therapy, and occasionally have had the interesting, if disconcerting, experience where one of the partners is a sociopath, or has significant sociopathic tendencies.
Unsurprisingly, it is always the nonsociopathic partner who is occasionally successful in dragging his or her sociopathic counterpart to counseling. The sociopathic partner, just as predictably, will have no collaborative interest in the relationship’s improvement. However, he or she may be sufficiently selfishly and manipulatively motivated to attend.
For instance, the relationship may offer conveniences the sociopathic partner does not want to see end. The nonsociopathic partner may have reached wit’s end and may really be prepared to end the relationship, arousing the sociopathic partner’s concerns that the gravy-train, as it were, may be over.
This can be the sociopath’s inducement to try to “patch things up with,” to “settle down” the nonsociopathic partner, in order to salvage the perks of the relationship. (The quoted phrases are meant to capture the sociopath’s condescending, self-serving thinking.)
The couples therapy environment provides little cover for the sociopath who, for this reason, will prefer generally to avoid it. The reason that sociopaths fare so poorly in disguising their sociopathy in a couples therapy situation is that, facing an aggrieved partner, the sociopath will struggle, and often fail, to produce responses of convincing sincerity and depth.
In other words, the sociopath’s fundamental defects of empathy and sincerity, in the emotional hotseat of couples counseling, are at risk of being flagrantly unmasked—sooner, typically, than in individual (court-mandated) counseling, where the sociopath, safe from the spontaneous challenges and disclosures of his or her abused partner, can more effectively misrepresent and deceive.
Couples counseling is inadvisable when a partner is a suspected sociopath for several reasons. Among them:
1) The therapist does not want to enable the belief (especially the nonsociopathic partner’s belief) that a nonabusive, honest relationship can possibly evolve with a sociopathic partner.
2) It is inherently humiliating for the nonsociopathic partner to make him or herself vulnerable to a partner whose only capable response to that vulnerability is exploitative. The therapist does not want to collude in this process.
3) There is the risk that the sociopathic partner, who is probably blaming and possibly vengeful, will use his or her partner’s complaints during the session as a basis, after the session, to punish him or her for having had the audacity to expose him or her.
This risk, incidentally, applies to any abusive individual in couples therapy. Narcissists’ abusiveness in this situation will arise most likely from their sense of entitlement—for instance that their partners owe it to them to always make them look, and feel, good (in private and public).
For sociopaths, exposure may be experienced as a sort of defeat: their mask is uncovered; their leverage as an operator—and with it their parasitical lifestyle—is threatened. Their game may be over. They may be mad.
One accidental benefit of stumbling upon a sociopath in couples therapy is the chance it affords the therapist (who recognizes it) to be a professional (and desperately needed) witness for the nonsociopathic partner.
The therapist may be in a position to provide the vulnerable partner, in subsequent individual sessions (after the couples counseling has been appropriately terminated), critical validation, information, and lifesaving support.
All of this presupposes the therapist’s ability to identify the sociopathic partner. When the couples therapist fails to identify that he or she is dealing with a couple in which one of the partners is sociopathic, the ensuing counseling process will undermine all of the nonsociopathic partner’s interests.
In failing to expose the sociopath, the counseling, by definition, will be abetting the sociopath. It will be structured on the false pretense that two reasonable clients are having problems with each other that they’ve co-created, which will not be the case. This false assumption will support the unequal, exploitative playing-field the sociopath has sewn all along.
For this reason—especially if your self-esteem has been battered in a relationship—I encourage you to explore assertively with a prospective therapist the extent of his or her experience with narcissistic and sociopathic personalities. Your inquiry should be met with absolute respect. A defensive response should rule the therapist out, as should vague, general responses, along the lines of, “Well, yes, I’ve worked with these kinds of clients. Is that what you’re asking?”
The answer is “no.” That’s not what you are asking. You are asking for a more substantive response, characterized by the therapist’s interest and patience to discuss in some depth his or her clinical background with the personality-disordered population.
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2008 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
Dr. Steve–
Thank you for the post and validation- therapy WITH a psycho is pointless and dangerous.
As far as alerting a client that someone they describe, who you the therapist has not met, is psychopathtic….perhaps a validation of their complaints and discussion of the type of people who present such symptoms.
I think a lot of therapists have wasted their time and mine- by making me flounder….I don’t have a psych degree. Though I have now realized after round two with a psycho that I was vulnerable b/c of my narcissistic mother who is also a pathological hoarder ( I see much of hoarding as narcissistically driven- it’s power).
As far as shame- I just blogged on it. And I agree,scoeity sufferes from those who feel shame but no guilt…psychopaths. They are embarrassed at being judged afoul of norms, of being accused of wrong-doing, but do not feel guilt for hurt inflicted on others.
http://holywatersalt.blogspot.com
Not embarrassed…pissed off. Annoyed, someone questioned their magnifience.
“All of this presupposes the therapist’s ability to identify the sociopathic partner.”
And that’s assuming a lot.
Just anecdotally, reading about this on the internet for years, and having known a couple of people with sociopathic (or otherwise abusive) partners… it seems therapists are inevitably human, and sometimes have their own issues which prevent them from recognizing a sociopath, and fully comprehending what all it entails.
Seems to me like in far too many cases, sociopaths successfully blow smoke up the therapists’ dresses.
In one story I saw on a message board a few years ago, there was a woman who actually described her female marriage councelor being downright FLIRTY with her abusive husband, right in the sessions.
Worse, usually by the time a couple goes into therapy, the emotional abuse has been so severe for so long, the victim seems hysterical, and therefore makes it easy for the sociopath to paint them as a crazy person… which seems to me leads to many a therapist to focus on the victim’s “problems” – which then becomes secondary trauma to the victim.
Add to that the fact that I think there are more sociopathic (or otherwise disordered) therapists than anyone realizes. 🙁
And I don’t think it’s fair to defend the therapist who fails to recognize the disordered partner they’ve never met, who’s been described to them in intimate detail. I mean come on. I don’t need to see the duck to recognize one that’s described to me. No one expects a formal “diagnosis”, but it should be pretty obvious that the person isn’t normal, isn’t healthy – and I don’t think it’s breaking any medical ethics to inform their patient the behaviour isn’t normal.
But no, therapists often PUT UP WITH THAT KIND OF PARTNER THEMSELVES, and continue to hope their disordered partner will change, etc.. So why on earth would they encourage their patient to break it off.
If a patient comes to a therapist and tells them that their romantic partner is a habitual liar, mooches, or has cheated multiple times… calls them names or belittles & berates them in public & private…. Heck, the therapist doesn’t need to diagnose the romantic partner, to point out that if the patient has asked this partner to change, and they haven’t, to encourage the patient to take care of themselves. No, I really think many a therapist thinks they’re doing the patient a favour by telling the patient what they want to hear — “do this and your partner won’t cheat on you” or “do better and your partner won’t belittle you”… when that’s bad advice in ANY situation with any relationship – even with normal people, let alone sociopaths! But plenty of therapists give that sort of advice regarding relationships – like they’re coaching a Dale Carnegie course on how to win friends & influence people.
As for the Father’s Rights spam post… I can almost laugh at the brazen attempt on a web site like this.
You described my experience so well. Thank you for posting this.
I was very fortunate to have stumbled upon a marriage counselor who was able to see through my ex. She was like a lifeline to me. I needed to be able to ask “Does this make sense to you or am I the only (crazy) one who can see this?” about so many things. It was reassuring to have someone validate reality without twisting it or denying it.
My ex would say one thing in one session, then claim the opposite in the next session. Having another witness who couldn’t be browbeaten into thinking she must have made a mistake, forgotten, heard wrong, or misinterpreted him was a HUGE relief to me.
A favorite technique of my S: If you’re lying, keep on lying louder and longer than the other person can hold out. Because if you drown them out or outlast them, it must mean that you are right and they are wrong.
Thank you for your reply Steve. Yes I understand what you say, but I am disappointed that they were not able to put together all the things I was telling them, so that at the very least they could tell me it was manipulation, because my ex was very very clever and most of it was done covertly.
Beverly, be sure that I appreciate your disappointment. I didn’t mean for my response to invalidate the obvious basis for your disappointment. My only point was that, sometimes, therapists do better to help a client examine his or her pattern of responding to (or tolerating) a partner’s nonsense than to speculate (sometimes wrongly) on the latter’s diagnosis. Having said that, when I have a strong sense that my client is dealing with a pathological personality, I am not shy about sharing my intuition (hopefully accurately) and my knowledge with my client. Best!
Dear Steve, thanks for your post. It helped me a lot! I only found out now why my “marriage counseling” I did myself (at age 12!) to “fix” my parent’s marriage was a complete failure. My mother is a narcisst and my father (a very eloquent lawyer) has psychopathic traits, a fact I discovered about 4 months ago while I was going NC with my psychopath x-friend. This evening I could cry for the first time FOR ME at how mean both of my parents were letting me doing this horrid thing. I just now realize they both played with me all the time, and in the end of the “counseling” they “found out” that they can’t live together, quite the exact opposite of what I attempted. My father came afterwards to me and suggested my mother see a psychiatrist, and my mother tried later to attempt suicide. It was one of the biggest desasters in my life. They still are together somehow at present. It happened 34 years ago. I must say this site is so very important for me and I just now can put the pieces together I was always wondering about. Slowly I can see the “big picture”. Thanks you all! Hve a very nice evening!
Lilbelle-
I am so sorry. They are just evil creatures. Monsters.
They must be feeding off one another.
I hope you are doing better. : )
God Bless
This is what can be so frustrating is that I would seek outside help (therapist) knowing that our relationship was in trouble. I myself had been in therapy for many years (prior to my ex P relationship) and have learned the many benefits that if one is willing to be open and honest with the therapist and oneself that both can achieve in this type of environment. Only one therapist knew what was happening in our relationship and she tried so hard to get my ex P to open up to her but my ex P quit stating that “she didn’t like talking about her self”. I did beg her to return to our therapy sessions but she refused to return. I did allow her to quit and I too stop going hoping (thinking) that we could work on our problems together without the therapist help. BIG MISTAKE! Our relationship only got worst and then at one time hit rock bottom. I did try a few another times but still nothing good came out of these sessions due to the fact she “learned” how to response and reply when discussing our relationship and how I “needed” to change which I did. Only problem nothing else would (change)! In short I got so tired of hitting a brick wall I just gave up and quit even trying to get us to therapy anymore.
What really bugged me so is that I knew therapy works! So I couldn’t understand why in God’s name it wasn’t “working” for “US”? Of course I know now but back then I didn’t even know about things like a Personality Disorder NPD BPD and Sociopaths. I know now!
Dear James,
it is frustrating to “try everything” and not get any “success”—Sigh, I think most of us have been there, in therapy or not.
Relationships take TWO (or more) people working together, if only one is “pulling their weight” then the relationship/family isn’t going to be successful. No matter how hard one of the pair of a couple “pulls” if the other one isn’t dong their share the “wagon” isn’t going to move very far.
I had a pair of steers once (oxen) that one of the pair was a lazy bugger, and he would not pull his share of the load, when you have a situation where one side is pulling and the other not, the wagon or cart tends to “go round in circles”—of course I had the ultimate “motivator” and could make him pull his share, but I constantly had to be on him to get him to share the load. Unfortunately, in a marriage or relationship, it sometimes just gets to the point that it is better to pull the cart yourself than to try to pull the entire load going round in circles, yoked to a mate that won’t even try. Or worse, yet, one that keeps kicking your feet out from under you so that when you try to pull, you fall down.
The thing you do know though, James is that you did the best you could with what you had to work with, and that nothing you could have done would have made it better.