By | October 6, 2011 539 Comments

The sociopath takes what he wants

The “sociopath,” boiled down, is someone who routinely does, and takes, what he wants, unconcerned with the impact of his behavior on others. Nothing in my mind defines his essence more than this concise, factual description. He is rather unique, and thus diagnosable as a sociopath, to this precise extent.

Sure, we’ve discussed this before, but it always merits, in my view, fresh reconsideration. And so let me add, I think, an important caveat: The sociopath doesn’t necessarily feel he has the “right” to what he’s pursuing, or planning to take.

Rather, he doesn’t feel he needs the right. He just needs the want.

Simply wanting what he wants, with or without the right to it, meets his standard for laying claim to his quarry.

Because after all, you may ask the sociopath, “Did you have a ”˜right’ to take that? To steal it?” And he may answer, with intellectual honesty, “No. I realize, intellectually, that I had no right to what I took.”

Which gets to the nub, the essence, of his condition: His” right” to what he wanted wasn’t relevant, didn’t even enter his thinking; rather, his wanting it was the sole factor necessary to support his comfortable, non-conflictual pursuit of it.

To sum up, the sociopath’s disordered essence is captured best in his pattern of taking, without remorse, what intellectually he may very well know doesn’t belong to him—he has no right to it—yet he takes it anyway.

To be clear: when I say that the sociopath intellectually can understand he may lack the “right” to what he’s taking, I’m not suggesting that he lacks a sense of entitlement. Quite the contrary: his sense of entitlement is all the more astounding for his intellectual awareness that he may lack the “right” to what he wants, yet still takes it. In doing so, he is exhibiting self-entitlement, and attitudes of contempt,  in their gaudiest, most audacious forms.

One always must beware of oversimplifying complicated concepts. The sociopath’s disorder is complex on many levels. Yet on some levels the sociopath’s mentality isn’t so complicated at all. In some respects it’s pretty simple.

In this article I suggest the sociopath is, essentially, that strange, disconcerting, disruptive individual with a history, and pattern, of taking from others what doesn’t belong to him with an impoverished sense of shame and remorse. When you confront an individual with this history and pattern, you are dealing with a sociopath.

What he takes, and even how he takes it, are less relevant considerations that that he takes, with no right.

(This article is copyrighted © 2011 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is strictly for convenience’s sake and not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the behaviors and attitudes discussed.)


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Ox Drover

Steve, A very precise and concise description of the psychopath, and it get “all” of them to a “tee”—though they are on different levels of what they are willing to do, from the guy eating the last piece of cake, knowing you haven’t had any, to the serial killer and every psychopath in between.

The simple concept of they WANT SOMETHING, therefore they TAKE something.

How simple and understandable is that! TOWANDA!!!!!


So true Steve, that it is simple and complicated at the same time. The psychopath knows he has no right to the object he is taking, but he feels he has the right to take it. Where does that right come from? “Because I CAN”.

The logic is convoluted, and spathological.

They mistake taking something for earning something. To them there is no difference. All that matters is that they took steps to acquire it and they succeeded.

It goes toward the shallowness of their understanding of language. Taking and earning have the same “feeling” to them, because both actions result in acquiring. If earning something entitles them to it, then why doesn’t taking also entitle them? This is the logic of a small child, and it’s based on lack of depth in understanding.

How sad to live life so lacking in depth of understanding. It precludes any possibility for ever finding meaning in life.

Steve – a great way to distill the disorder. Thanks!


Perhaps even more simply does what he wants without consideration of impact.


A little different take on the same logic:
I used to make excuses for my husband, that he did hurtful things b/c he was unaware of the outcome, that he hadn’t thought through the outcome to another person.

One day, I found out he was going to do something that would hurt me greatly. I pleaded with him to not do it, argued with perfect logic that it was immoral and cruel. I told him “don’t do this. it will harm me.” and he admitted he knew it was WRONG and that yes, it would harm me, but he was going to do it anyway. ANd he would NOT tell me the reason WHY. (I knew why, it was b/c he was going to gain someone’s indebtedness to him. He LOVES having power over others.)

He intellectually knew he was wrong. But that wasn’t what mattered. Like Skyler says, he did it b/c he could. B/c his soul is so lost that he could do such harm to the one he claimed was his best advocate and truest love.

What mattered more was “WINNING!”.



What an easy to understand explanation for the bizarre behavior they display.

The shore house is being sold- at quite a loss due to the market and his negligence – he never heated the house for the winter or shut off the water . So the pipes broke and virtually ruined the whole downstairs. So we are losing half of what he paid 6 years ago. Does he care ? – No. Would he make the repairs to generate another $40,000.00 on the sale – NO.

I couldn’t understand this but now I think I know why.

The preliminary closing statements are being calculated and nothing will come from the sale of this property – He has 4 liens that have come to light and there are two more yet to be calculated in.

The one asset we had for our children’s future – and mine – he bankrupted it deliberately. He had to KNOW the liens would be satisfied before I got even a dime.

Yet- he denies himself nothing he wants while not paying his own bills. He goes to a shop for a shave because it feels good, stops for gourmet cupcakes at $2.75 each 3 or 4 times a week . He eats out 3 to 4 times for dinner per week and I am sure there are breakfasts and lunches in there too.

And he does these things while our son is with him – and son feels bad his dad has it rough – even though our son goes without because dad isn’t paying support regularly.

This man has taken what didn’t belong solely to him and continues to devastate our family. He will wind up with his debts paid , move in with the OW and all the while he sinks me financially .I’m not even sure if me and the kids will be able to get another house to live in.

Katydid said : “B/c his soul is so lost that he could do such harm to the one he claimed was his best advocate and truest love.”

He used to say what a good wife I was- that he trusted only me. – trusted me to be a fool I guess.

Ox Drover

Dear Newlife,

Thanks for checking in with the updates on your situation. I am so sorry you are experiencing this and sorry too that your son is falling for the “pity ploy” that your x is giving out.

He doesn’t even care that he is “cutting off his nose to spite his face” in neglecting the house, anything he can do to hurt you is okay, even when it hurts himself and his children as well. How SICK!

God bless NewLife ((hugs)))


Thanks so much for your thoughts , Oxy. I always check in and read – just don’t post too often because it’s the same poop over and over -gets redundant for me after awhile.

But I’m still learning by staying on the site !!!

You are right – he’ll do anything to hurt me even now – he knew I loved the place for my kids – even though it was purchased by him through his business to shelter money from taxes.

The kids enjoyed some weekends and day trips there- even though it was usually the 3 of us only. And I took care of the place like a little diamond cottage – cleaned before we left every time so when we went back – it was all fun.

And my son – it was a haven for him- my daughter not so much as she was getting older.

So sad, Oxy – really sad. We could have been OK financially – but he couldn’t control his need for money , power and looking successful. So he borrowed from Peter to pay Paul to the point our primary residence would now be a short sale – no equity at all – and only a few years ago it was paid off.

Is there any justice for him – I fear not.

Ox Drover

Dear Newlife,

Oh, yes, there WILL BE JUSTICE FOR HIM. It may not be immediate (the way we would of course like!) but it will be there because in this economy he is not going to be able to continue to life like a king on other people’s money, it will come crashing down on him financially you can count on that. It may be years before it happens, but it WILL.

I realize that may not be much consolation to you now, but we have to accept what we can’t change and become wise enough to know which things we cannot effect change in. Even now, it is still difficult for me to ACCEPT that I can’t get my egg donor to see the TRUTH about my P son and get her to STOP sending him money! Even though most of the time I have reached that “nirvana of indifference” with her, there are still times that DESIRE TO CHANGE SOMETHING I CAN’T CHANGE creeps in.

It was disconcerting to me to realize that Healing was not a “one and done” event….that it was a continuing process….I wanted to “heal” and BE DONE with it, but unfortunately it doesn’t work like that (at least for me) so I must continue to keep myself from being enraged at the things she continues to do that are just so STOOOPID! So counter productive to HER OWN WELL BEING. To the well being of myself and those I love. It just doesn’t “make sense” to me, yet it is TRUE.

I share your frustration and I know others here do to. It is I think that SHARING here that gives us all more strength. Thanks for updating us and for sharing! (((hugs)))

donna dixon

OMG! I feel like someone was reading my mind when I read Steve’s article. I have waivered in and out for the past 5 years wondering if I was really married to a sociopath because my ex was “perfect” for 20 years then seemed to go off the “deep end” financially ruining us with his gambling and his entitlement to what he took for himself with disregard for his family.

Newlife: You stated that your husband was gonna do something even though he knew how much it would hurt you…that same thing happened to ME!!

I don’t know if any of you readers of LF were /are in a relationship with a gambler but I would like to hear your stories if you were. Also, if anyone can give me some literature to read on sociopaths who are compulsive gamblers I would really appreciate it.


Donna Dixon,
my spath hid his gambling from me, so I don’t know how much he gambled but he was obsessed with watching other people lose at the casinos. He loved to see the desperation on their faces and would talk about the likelihood that they were going to commit suicide when they left the casino because they had gambled away all their savings and bankrupted themselves.

Gambling and spaths go hand in hand, but the exact reason for it, is still mysterious to me.

Ox Drover

Dear Bluejay,

I’m sorry that he left you a mess to clean up, but I hope and pray that he STAYS GONE FOREVER FROM YOUR LIFE. I understand you being royally pissed! You deserve to be pissed! I am glad that his family is helping you clean up the mess, actually I think that they would be supportive of you is more the exception than the rule!

I imagine FAD and several others here WISH that their X’s would disappear and LEAVE THEM THE FARK ALONE. Whatever you have to deal with will eventually be DONE and if he is GONE you will be better off. I pray that he NEVER RETURNS TO YOUR LIFE! (((Hugs))))

donna dixon

Thanks Skylar~ I attended Gamblers Anonymous and also Gam Anon but it seemed to me those Gamblers that turned around were the one’s that decided to get help when their spouses threatened to divorce them. Mine never did so I just assumed the rest were not sociopaths.

What you say about your ex though does resemble mine; he enjoys other’s misfortunes and thrives on chaos.

Ox Drover

For what it is worth about the gamblers is that I think the adrenaline rush they get as they “play” –WIN OR LOSE–is the “pay off” for gamblers, that “risk taking” and also that is what the stock brokers/traders seem to enjoy is that RUSH OF HORMONES that gives them the “reward” for the risky behavior. Taking the chance.

There are all kinds of LEGAL ways (though maybe stupid or immoral) to get the RUSH—trading stocks, going to a casino, climbing mountains, flying airplanes, jumping from airplanes, riding fast motorcycles, horses or cars, riding bulls or bucking horses…..lots of ways that a person can get a RUSH legally. Then there is the ILLEGAL ROUTE, stealing, dealing drugs or stolen guns, conning someone out of their money, robbing banks, raping, beating your wife or husband, making kiddie porno….

How we CHOOSE to get our “rush” of adrenaline depends on a lot of things and we can choose between “positive” OR “negative” actions, wise or stupid actions, legal or illegal. The psychopath has little or no impulse control or moral compass to direct his or her choices to the wiser,, kinder, better choices.

Going to a casino is fun for me once in a while, and I used to go to Vegas to see the shows and do a little black jack playing, but it was LIMITED by how much I knew I could “afford” to use as “entertainment funds” and when I lost that much I quit playing. So, gambling wasn’t “problematic” for me, but I have known people for whom it was a BIG problem. Lou Hardin, the former Arkansas State legislator and former President of the University of Central Arkansas near me who was just convicted for fraud to cover up his gambling addiction is only one recent public example.

My state just recently passed a state lottery which I think extends the “ability” of a great many people to satisfy their gambling addiction legally. I’m not sure though that making it “illegal” stops it at all though. Prohibition didn’t stop drinking and the “war on drugs” has NOT stopped drug addiction so it is very frustrating. You can’t legislate good sense or morality.

Ox Drover

Dear Bluejay,

How old are your children?

I sort of agree with your neighbors that the “suicide notes” are indicative of a person on the run….about 3 years ago a man who I know his sister “disappeared” without a trace, and without any warning. He was a CFO of a large financial business but it was denied there was any fraud etc. and as far as the FBI could find out there was no affair, etc. he just “disappeared” but his car, phone and lap top were found at a state park. Dogs tracked his scent only for a few feet before it disappeared so he likely got into another vehicle….then later, he was possibly spotted at a motel about 40 miles from there (dogs signaled that he had been there) and since then, NOTHING. No money even “missing” from his account or anything like that. He was recently declared “dead” so his wife could handle business, and they had YOUNG kids so I know it must ahve been a nightmare for them all. Funny thing is I THOUGHT you had to be gone 7 years before you could be declared “dead” for business purposes, anyway….that might be something for you to look into.

Suicide or faux suicide either are probably one of the MOST EVIL THINGS to do to your family, especially if you are just “on the run” and it sounds like yours is ON THE and your kids .living in that WONDERLAND OF IS HE OR ISN’T HE ALIVE? must be horrible for your kids, but at some time you have all got to come to the resolution of IT DOESN’T MATTER IF HE KILLED HIMSELF OR NOT, WHAT HE DID IS EVIL AND I WON’T JUSTIFY IT WITH CARING ANYMORE. It may be a long time before you reach that nirvana of indifference too….I know I FIGHT to stay in that place with my P son and his enabler, my egg donor. I AM surprised though that your X’s family is supportive of YOU. That is at least a PLUS for you and your kids.

I hope the cops are after him as well….but I would “bet the farm” he is holing up somewhere with another newer victim laughing his arse off at what a SMART man he is. What an EVIL creature! God bless you and your kids…and may the FLEAS OF 1,000 CAMELS INHABIT HIS ARM PITS! LOL


NewLife (and I want to say Dearest NewLife b/c I so empathize with your troubles.)

This reply is not to minimize what Oxy wrote you but to augment it with my experience.

My whole marriage existence was one big INvalidation. I could NOT get heard (and did not at all until finding LF.). For the one or two people who did not reject me, they insisted it could not have been as bad as I said. People here on LF will affirm that in fact, OUR abuse experience is WORSE than what is said b/c we don’t disclose all, it’s just SO enormous of a betrayal, it’s SO BAD we let it out in pieces, it’s too painful to disclose at one go.

B/c in my little town, it seemed everyone excused my husband’s abuse and behavior, I wanted SOOOoooo badly for him to be exposed and those who were mean to me would realized he was a CON and maybe they’d regret helping him to abuse me. I prayed for it. I dreamed of it. I was looking for JUSTICE.

SO it might come as a surprise to you, that My advice is to set that desire, that NEED for JUSTICE aside and don’t think about it ever again. Think of something else (and you know you have plenty to think about). I found, for ME, wanting JUSTICE kept me trapped in pain. I kept trying to find someone who knew him to discover the truth. Searching for JUSTICE just made me impotent b/c it’s totally depending on another. It’s not empowering. It’s not healing. That idea that someday he will get JUSTICE, maybe from God, maybe at the hands of a bigger bully spath… was no consolation to me. It just made my misery greater b/c it did NOT improve anything for me.

THAT realization was KEY to my growth and empowerment. It was the realization that my measurement of my true NEED was whether it improved things for me. And even if JUSTICE happened and the world knew him for what he was, I still had to find MY path through the healing, through victory, through empowerment, through LIVING a real life again, and helping my daughter THROUGH to do the same. IMPROVING my life was way more of a need and value than anything I could do for myself.

That’s my op about wishing for JUSTICE. Truth is, it’s not likely. These type get away with stuff forever. And if he gets a little bit, it’s still not enough to make that feeling of wanting JUSTICE to go away. That’s my last bit… the desire for JUSTICE does NOT go away. BUT, when I got better and had friends again and life became full of possibilities again (and yes I am older but STILL there are LOTs of possibilities of achievement for me.), I came to a place of SATISFACTION in my life and THAT comes from ME, which NO ONE Can take away.

SATISFACTION with my life TRUMPS JUSTICE for a lowlife creep (and if JUSTICE ever happens, it’s just frosting on my SATISFACTION CAKE!)

Sorry to say, it’s taken me years to get to this moment of contentment but at least I got here. Maybe it’s shorter for others. I hope so. That’s why LF is such a blessing.

Ox Drover

Katy, actually I agree with you 100% and I think the only difference in our outlooks is simply SEMANTICS….ACCEPTANCE is the word I use and SATISFACTION is the word you use, I think the CONCEPT is the same thing. I also think you put it very well to BlueJay.

We can’t put our peace on the chopping block of THEIR getting what they DESERVE in the “here and now”—because that does depend on something outside of ourselves.

As far as others “getting it” about them in our families and communities, it may not happen, but we can VALIDATE OURSELVES and the truth that we KNOW TO BE THE TRUTH.

Just because Columbus was the ONLY man in the world who thought the world was round didn’t change the shape of the world. Truth is truth is truth. Even if we are the ONLY person in the world who believes what is true….it doesn’t change what is true. That was a difficult concept for me to grasp because I WANTED, I NEEDED (I thought) someone else to agree with me to validate that truth. Now, I see that I can VALIDATE THAT TRUTH MYSELF. That’s what you have done, KatyDid, and what ultimately we all must do. It IS NICE though to know that our friends here at LF also get it. (((hugs)))

Ox Drover

Dear Bluejay,

Yep, I agree with you 110% people just think someone is being a “jerk” and that they CAN change or maybe WILL change, not that they have a personality disorder that is DANGEROUS.

If nothing else though, you know the truth, and you must validate that for yourself, and not depend on the validation of others. In fact, sometimes those others will TURN ON you and enable the psychopath to function more effectively.

I hope your kids can come to understand that this is not their fault (little kids especially seem to blame themselves for the bad deeds of their parents) and to grow beyond being abused and neglected by this disordered person. Maybe this whole thing is a GODSEND for them, him cutting himself out of their lives will give you a chance to help them without interference from them.

I have had some “bad things” happen to me that at the time seemed like the WORST thing that could have happened, but in the end, I realized that it turned out to be the BEST THING that could have happened because in the end it worked out to be a BLESSING in disguise.

I don’t know what your faith is but the Bible promises that “ALL THINGS work together for good to those that love the Lord,” and I believe that with all my heart. I’ve had so many “horrible” things happen that in the end, turned out to be BLESSINGS so I think you may have had the BEST BLESSING that your kids could have had, THE ABSENCE OF THEIR “SPERM DONOR” (he is NOT their father as that is a title which must be EARNED and he sure hasn’t done that) God bless you and your kids and keep him OUT OF THEIR LIVES! (((hugs))))


It’s my belief that your ex-spath is just trying to create drama. If he really wanted to disappear, he wouldn’t have written the notes. They were meant to add spice and flavor to his drama. That means that he will be back because he will want to revel in the drama and he can’t do it if he’s not there.

He’s probably waiting until the statute of limitations is up on everything he has hanging over his head. Find out when that would be and you might predict the date of his return.

The feelings and repercussions he left you with are awful but at least he is out of your life for now. It was his intent to leave you with that slime so refuse to accept it. When he comes back, as I believe he will, he hopes to see a look of shock or anger or some other intense emotion on your face. Be prepared and refuse to participate.

Everything spaths do is for the sake of manipulating emotions. Don’t allow it. Seeing him for what he is, a cardboard cutout facsimile of a human being, will help you move forward. ((hugs)).


very concise illumination of how they operate. Therein lies the disturbing reality- they know and are well aware they are violating you, your rights, your boundaries… they simply don’t care. That’s also why the insanity defense doesn’t hold water.



the sisterhood

KatyDid- Your comment really hits home with me. I have been stuck in limbo between wanting to see justice done by exposing my ex-spath for what he is and appreciating the life I have now with all of the beautiful, wonderful blessings I have been given. It is quite a tightrope.

Seeking justice and validation for our experience does keep us tied to them and we do, unfortunately, give our energy and power to them. It is a nasty cycle. I am still stuggling with it. I just can’t get past how everyone seems to love the jerk and look at me like I am the pathetic, scorned lover. I, too, am waiting patiently for the day indifference arrives. What a glorious day that will be.

For now, it hurts like hell when I see how he struts around with the perfect little life. I feel very alone because no one else has ever bee victimized by him like I have. His previous girlfriend was treated well to her face because she had connections he didn’t want to ruine. She was a good girl (madonna) He cheated on her like crazy, but he was so good to her in her presence. His wife, the girl after me, is seemingly treated well to her face for the same reasons. She is also a good girl (madonna). His wife offers him excellent social status. She is educated, well liked, comes from a good family and a good person all around. I have no idea if he cheats on her. It would be very difficult for him to get away with it because she is his best friend’s sister. They appear to have the perfect marriage.

I didn’t offer him any social standing. I didn’t have connections to prop up his image. I couldn’t offer him a good extended family. I was, therefore, thrown away after he got from me what he wanted (which was sex). He used me for sex so he could brag to his buddies about all of the things I would do with him. I was a bragging prop, nothing else. A great way to promote his Alpha Dog image. Silly me, I thought I was the love of his life. Still cuts me to the core.

He was sexually devious and sinister with me. He constantly lied about his true feelings for me and continually manipulated me into situations that were either humiliating or just plain emotionally abusive. His friends rallied to his defense whenever I stood up for myself. I became the psycho girlfriend. All the labels and mis-treatment by he and his friends still affects me to this day. I was the whore they could denegrate and speak ill about. I was not a good girl, according to them. I was a bad apple, so my ex was justified in everything he did.

The irony of it all is that all three of the women in his life, his past girlfriend, me and his wife, are all from the same town. We are all around the same age. We know the same people. So when people who know all of us hear my story and what I have expereinced with him, it doesn’t match up with the other girls’ experiences. I am left looking like the “crazy”.

I hate that it still hurts me. I feel humiliated all over again knowing that I am left the “sucker”.

I didn’t deserve any of that. He had no right to treat me the way he did. These things I know. Just waiting now for my heart to catch up with my mind.

Oxy- You have given me great advice on this in the past. I just want to get past this last thing. It is so difficult. Maybe justice won’t come. I am waiting for indifference…


I’m so sorry for the pain you are feeling. I know that it’s not much consolation but at least know that his disorder will keep him from ever truly being a loving human being or truly happy.

Your job is to pick up th pieces and make your life better than it was BECAUSE of what happened. That’s the ultimate revenge : when we take the dung they left us and make it into something great. Donna Anderson is the perfect example for us. She created LF as a consequence of the spath attack she endured.


Hi everyone. I’m new. I’m not sure if this is supposed to go here, but I thought I should introduce myself, so here goes..

I’m an undergrad student majoring in psychology. I plan to eventually make a career out of research in forensic psychology, particularly psychopathy and antisocial personality disorder. I became interested in the disorder because of my aunt, a psychopath who nearly tore my family apart, and because I recently broke up with a guy who is probably a psychopath. Uh.. Yep. That’s all. Anything else, just ask if you want.

Ox Drover

Dear Sisterhood,

Sky gave you some great advice there, Sister. We do have to some how take the dung that they leave on us and turn it into FERTILIZER to nourish the roses in our future!

It is difficult to get to the “nirvana of indifference” and the thing is that it isn’t just a “one and done” effort either, even when you reach that PEAK. You have to stay balanced to stay there or you will fall off! LOL I realized that finally, that even when you reach “acceptance” in grieving, you must continue to work on STAYING there and the nirvana of indifference I think is the same.

That is why NO CONTACT is so important because when we either give in and initiate contact, or allow them to contact us, it many times kicks us in the arse and we fall off the peak of indifference. That is why, I think, it is SOOOO hard for people who have to co-parent with these creeps and who see them on a regular basis.

It is difficult to run in the same circles and SEE their “perfect life” and to think how wonderful they must be having things when you know your own life sucks! Well, first off, you may THINK he has this “perfect” marriage, but let me inform you of something….IT IS A FAKE….he is no better to her than he was to you…or anyone else. That is the way they are!!!!! Behind closed doors ALL IS NOT ROSEY IN THAT MARRIAGE.

My egg donor is the “perfect Christian lady” in public and to her friends, but I KNOW WHAT LIES BEHIND DOOR NUMBER 2! And it AIN’T PRETTY I can testify to that. So no matter what face he presents in public or what his “friends” think IT IS A HALLOWEEN MASK—FAKE!~ Keep that in mind.

When you find yourself thinking how perfect he treated others and how crappy he treated you—remind yourself just WHAT A FAKE HE IS! It is all SMOKE AND MIRRORS, it is not the truth! (((hugs)))

Ox Drover

Dear Circus,

WELCOME to Love Fraud. Sounds like you have the “credentials” to qualify as a member of our club. Sorry you qualify! But hopefully you can turn a negative into a positive and make a career out of educating others about the psychopaths in this world!

Just chime in anywhere you feel you’d like to comment! A good group here! Lots of stuff to read and there’s lots to learn! Good support here as well. Again, welcome!


Thanks. 🙂

I never had a lot of contact with my aunt. And my ex and I broke up before anything really bad happened. So I consider myself lucky.


Circus-Welcome to LF. I’m sorry you had to come here but welcome to our little club. As a psychology student you will find so much interesting here for you too. I had to come here due to a relationship with a Narcissist and you will learn so much here. I am permanently changed for the rest of my life since being here and I know you eventually will too. I’m so glad that your psychopath wasn’t around much to cause you to much pain.


Dearest Sisterhood
There’s a reason you called yourself sisterhood. We are your sisters here. We KNOW. Yes, we are painted as the crazy ones. My therapist was so good to me on this point. She said. NO you are NOT crazy. But you are in a CRAZYMAKING situation. His mask is off to you, but not off to the ones he needs to fool. Once my husband revealed his mask to me, he couldn’t get it back on again, I knew too much. I had to be destroyed.

To this day, I don’t know why my husband married me. I had no money, no prestige that would impress locals, was not pretty. And when he was done with me, he trashed me; I was accused of being a gold digger, of trying to kill him, of abusing his father, of being lazy and taking advantage. It was all to justify abusing me. Then I was discarded with no more thought than a stray dog. I was erased, did not exist.

I did move to protect myself, my life had been threatened and they made it impossible for me to gain employment. But moving gave me peace, a place where I didn’t have to watch over my shoulder or cry at THOSE looks by the townspeople. With that distance, I remembered who I AM.

Sorry it’s been years of working to recover but recover I have. ANd NOW, I am NOT defensive, I am NOT fragile, I am NOT avoidant, I am NOT approval seeking. I AM a whole list of characteristics that I admire, NONE of them that he has. I am SO PROUD to not be LIKE HIM or HIS family/minions.

So NO, when YOU recover, you won’t be able to convince those parasites hanging with your ex about anything, but they won’t have any power over you. YOU WILL TOO BE PROUD OF WHO YOU ARE. And your confidence in yourself will impress those who are good people. The others will mean nothing to you b/c like me, you won’t want to associate with anyone who is LIKE HIM.

Work to be a person YOU are proud of, and the result will be that you have recovered and THEY won’t matter one whit. The pain you feel is hard, but it’s not permanent. You have to get through it, BUT good news, you get THROUGH it. I can be more detailed if you need.



Katy-that was a great post that you made to Sisterhood. You are right too she is part of the sisterhood. She will be part of those of us who were permanently changed in a good and positive way despite what we’ve been through.

I feel like a person for the first time in my life. I never felt like I was good enough because I wasn’t perfect. I know now that I AM GOOD ENOUGH-extra lbs and all. All of the drama that is surrounding us eventually goes away and we get tired of being caught up in that endless circle that goes round and round.


This has been a rough couple of days.. Who am I kidding it’s been a rough couple of years but this weekend is different. I’m so tired and depressed and feel utterly hopeless. The tears have been coming and going for hours and I can’t make them stop. I’m so incredibly tired of all this shit. Life at the moment seems completely hopeless. I can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong. Why things aren’t getting better. I try so hard to remain positive.. See the silver lining… Humility and gratitude., ect. Tonight I just can’t! Things really are not getting better.. Every time I try to move forward some new screwed up door seems to open. Life just seems unbearable.. I simply don’t know how much more of this I can take… It’s as if I will never be able to rebuild my life again. I frankly don’t know if all this pain will ever end. I’m tired… So tired…if this is some universal test I think I’m failing. No matter how I look at my situation it would take an absolute miracle to fix things.


Just one more point that Oxy said touched on too. He’s NOT good to her. He had a madonna, and cheated on her. So he was two faced, nice to her face yet it was all fake. He betrayed her nevertheless. Did you really want that kind of man? Trade his type of abuse towards you for that type of abuse? My point is I hope you didn’t want either kind of abuser, and one is not better than another. TO be betrayed and to let someone have your intimacy and love all based on a lie IS RAPE.

My stbx husband is the town’s golden boy, but now that I know who he REALLY is, mask off, I don’t want him or that life. I want sincerity, appreciation, affection, love, etc etc. NONE of which were possible with an spath.

One thing that helped me on my road to recovery was to tell myself the TRUTH. If you want a cheating man who is nice to your face and betrays you behind your back… you’re on the wrong site. If you want a GOOD man who treats you with all the attributes you desire, then you’re in the right place for support to heal and grow and love again. 🙂


You have no idea how much I want good things for you. But I am powerless as a fairy godmother so I will watch you work to do good for yourself and be here when you need support. I have enjoyed you writing about your kitty b/c when we give love to a dependent critter, we can use that same grace to give love to ourselves.

Oxy got through to me one day. I don’t have to be perfect. I am GOOD ENOUGH for decent people.

Wasn’t that precious of Oxy? What a GIFT!!! It’s true of all of us but I think we tell ourselves very hurtful untrue things. And yes, truth hurts but truth is healing. If it only hurts, it’s not likely true. (another truth that fits everyone here? We are a TERRIBLE fit for bad people.)


might be wrong but there have been some times when i just needed to feel bad to purge the toxins out of me. i’d cry FOREVER, and i took a long bath in epsom salts, and i drank lots of filtered water. maybe you need the same? to purge some toxins? won’t hurt to care for yourself in the same way and just may make you feel a little better. i learned that one day too. that i didn’t need to be completely healed IMMEDIATELY but that if i felt a LITTLE better, it was enough for that day. I worked on feeling a little better every time I felt devasted. It got me through some TERRIBLY depressive times.

Best to you.


Katy-thank you so much and good things are happening for me. You have grown so much since you’ve come here and I am a totally different woman than I was a couple of months ago. Read some of my posts on the other threads. You are doing so great and you have so much great to share with all the new people that come here. You are going to make a tremendous difference in people’s lives with what you share with them and because of your attitude. Love, Lizzy



The advice I have for you is it DOES get better. I was where you are a year ago…even months ago. I am still there; still struggling, but it IS better than it was and I never thought I would get there. I really didn’t. I really thought some days I literally wasn’t going to make it and overall it has taken a toll on me, but I am still here; still standing. Please just hang in there…you will come out the other side and be even better than you were before 🙂



I feel your pain. My spath lives the “perfect” life with the “perfect” wife, or so it appears externally – but I know their marriage is empty. It has to be, because he’s a spath.

The good news is that you got away from him.

What oxy says is right. No contact is the only way to go. Don’t look at his FB page, don’t ride past his house, don’t call him, don’t talk to people about him. Just live your life. If you push him out, other things, better things will come in. There are 6 billion people living on this planet. Spend your life here on earth with some of the good ones.

I am strugglng too, don’t think I’m not, every day I go no contact I feel better. Yes there are some periods where my addiction to my spath and his drama kick in and I cry all day long, but on the whole, I am meeting new people and I am happier than I have been in years.

Best to you, sister.




Coping-you are not failing, I promise it will get better. We have all had those days that you are having today. I’ve had too many to count. You have the strength inside you to push past it. Sometimes I think none of us here are aware of how strong we really are. You are going to be ok and if I was there I would give you a huge hug for all of it. We have all been where you are. I love that quote from “The Sound of Music” that says “where GOD shuts a door, somewhere he opens a window”


Katy & Louise- thank you. I haven’t been like this… The crying… For a while now. Maybe it is just my time to release the tears and not feel guilty about it. My body is so tired all I really need/want to do is sleep. Yes.. Tomorrow is a new day.
Good night and god bless!!


:). Thanks Liz- I hope it’s a big freaking window! ((hugs))


I heard a funny about that window… the rest of it was “STOP staring at that damned closed door!! The window is behind you!” In other words, change your perspective and SEE.

YES Coping, it is a BIG window.


Coping-yes, I think it is turning out to be a great window!


sometimes we must be willing to let go of the life we thought we had and start living the life thats waiting on us….and eventually we see that it is a better life than we had before..hang in there


Hens-I totally agree!

the sisterhood

You beautiful, phenominal people. I adore your strength, insight and kind words of support. I know there are men on here who have suffered greatly at the hands of Spaths, but I am honored to be a part of this sisterhood. Maybe I should call it the “Survivorhood”. We are the lucky ones. We woke up!
I guess I call myself “the sisterhood” because I was so sickened by the misogyny of my ex-spath and his friends and I felt so connected to other women who have suffered from the same type of abuse and slandering. Not many “get it”. Not even other women. A lot of women I know don’t want to see the truth of their situations.

I do understand that men are survivors of this horrible treatment as well. To them, I call you brother. For it is only through our experiences, unfortunately, that we are initiated into this brother/sisterhood. I wish it didn’t have to be, but I am glad I have found all of you.

It has been a couple of years since my “awakening”. It is amazing what a spiritual journey this really has been. Donna is a great inspiration and leader. Thank you all for getting me through some very dark evenings.

I do believe “This too shall pass”! And I will be forever stronger and wiser because of it.

Much Love to all of you!


I hear you. This is very difficult. Digging out from under the disaster the spaths left us, WHILE concurrently trying to grow into the human beings we were meant to be. The growth is painful at times. I could NOT have done it without the awesome peeps on LF. Their wisdom and support has guided me. And it continues to guide me. Each day.

When I think of how evil my mother has been, it sort of makes me mad. But then I think of all the stories I read in the paper of parents who starve, beat, torture and kill their own children. Some of them put them in the microwave, drown them, break their bones etc… And I feel lucky. Because when your mother is a spath, there is no telling what she is capable of. I feel lucky that she was smart enough to avoid the kind of behavior that would severely damage her mask. In a way, it was her mask which protected me. When you look at that way, you can not only feel better, but you also have a source of power because you know what she values: her mask.

Ox Drover

Guys, some great posts! Thank you all for being here and for all that you share! It is tough sometimes, and Coping, and Sisterhood I think most or all of us have felt “it will never end” and “I am so TIRED” at one time or another, sometimes what seemed like FOREVER. Even now, some days I find myself feeling some despair or sad—but I realize that this JOURNEY of ours is not about “getting there” to some mythical place of euphoria but is about the wonderful JOURNEY called LIFE.

Today I drove to a friend’s house for a few minutes, down the country gravel road, and I drove very slowly because I had some boxes in the back of the truck I didn’t want to fly out. So I just poked along, but as I was driving, I started looking at the bright red black gum leaves against the afternoon sun, and thought just how beautiful it was. I dropped the boxes off with my friend, and her daughter came over with her 1 year old toddler and we sat around laughing at the kid and the dogs….then I came home….but I thought HOW AMAZING even the small things in life are. The laughter of a toddler as he sees things from the two foot level, that wonder in his eyes, and the sparkle in his eyes when he sees his grandmother.

I may live on the back roads of America, and the directions to my house may include “turn off the pavement….” but you know, I’m wealthy beyond belief…I have the gold of the sunsets, and the silver of the moon…the laughter of children, and the love of a rescued dog. Bill Gates isn’t more wealthy than I am. Sometimes when I find myself feeling sad, lost, broke, old, fat, wrinkled or unloved….I start by counting my blessings, starting with enough clean water to drink, a roof over my head and plenty of (salt free) food to eat and enough teeth to chew it with, and none of them ache! I also thank the Good Lord above that I found LoveFraud and all the incredible and supportive people here! I’m like KatyDid, as well, I think I’m happier, more satisfied, and more at peace now than I’ve been in my life!

TOWANDA for us all and God bless! (((hugs)))


Life does get better after they are gone. But I had a vivid nitemare last nite about him, it woke me up, I wonder if reading LF keeps him alive for me. But then there is my mother who is dying and I feel like I should go see her but fear the damage she might do to me..yes I have much support for you all but the dark cloud still visit’s me often..i guess it’s called life…gnite.


Goodnite Hens-sweet dreams tonite!

Ox Drover

Hens, I’m sorry you had the night mare, and as for your egg donor, don’t let the “SHOULDS” influence what you do. It is a crock of sheet that “You should….this or that—-what we SHOULD do is what is BEST FOR US.

I’ve had “honor your father and mother….” crammed down my throat since I could walk, but you know, the Bible also says “fathers provoke not your children to wrath…” and if your egg donor hasn’t done that to you then pigs can fly! As far as I am concerned, we “honor” our parents (and DNA donors) by becoming the KIND OF PEOPLE who would bring honor on them. So, I think you would HONOR any parent by being the kind of man you have become. I’m proud to know you, Hens! Honored too call you my friend! So get some GOOD SLEEP and don’t fret about that nasty old woman in the nursing home!

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