lf2

The verbal attacks of the sociopath

Editor’s note: The following article was submitted by the Lovefraud reader Aloha Traveler.

Who are you calling BLEEP!?

I have always been a person that is hard-wired for honesty. If you are into astrology, I am an Aries and my Chinese sign is Rooster. This doesn’t mean much to me but a friend once wanted to know my birth sign and the year and then responded “Oh. Now I see.” According to my friend, Aries born in the year of the Rooster have a double scoop of honesty.

 

What does this have to do with a being the victim of a disordered person? I’ll tell you. When they are attacking you, they never say anything true about you. The Bad Man was always insisting that I was a very dishonest woman. How odd. No one had ever called me this, ever. He also insisted I was “rude” and “selfish.” This was early in the relationship while I still had some spunk left in me to fight back. I countered, “I am 35 years old. I have never heard this about myself before. Don’t you think that if it were true, I would have heard this about myself by now?” I was sure of this. I thought I had him. I was unsure of this—his response, “That is why your ex left you. Because you can’t see how you are.”

This was brilliant on his part. I was unsure as to why the ex, a Good Man, decided I wasn’t “The One.” Of course, I had already shared this information with the Bad Man in those early, deep, soul-baring conversations that are part of the Sociopathic Relationship Package. True to his nature, the Bad Man had already dug into my psyche like an archeologist and carefully uncovered every vulnerability within me. My logic, I was sure of. Why the man I loved for five years left me, I wasn’t so sure.

SCORE 1 for the Bad Man.

The Bad Man claimed that I communicated in “cunning and tricky ways.” If you have ever read anything I have written in the blogs or my other essays, what do you think? Is there anyone in Lovefraud land that experiences me as cunning and tricky? I have been told all of my life that I am very direct. This was so confusing. The Bad Man seemed to be operating in some other dimension… the dimension where I was cunning, rude, tricky, BLEEP, feisty, testy, BLEEP, BLEEP, BLEEPITY- BLEEP-BLEEP, sleazy-cheesy, dishonest, ornery, blah, blah, blah and on and on.

Romeo’s Bleeding

 

In the essay Romeo’s Bleeding, Part 5, the author, Roger Melton, puts it this way:

“Just keep one simple fact always in mind, regardless of whether a Controller is borderline, narcissistic, sociopathic or sadistic: Whenever any of them are criticizing characteristics in you, they are making autobiographical statements about themselves.

Blame is their way of unloading their character defects onto you. Listen closely to the hateful things they say to you about you. You are listening to verbatim descriptions of their character defects. This is extremely important to remember, especially in the midst of verbal attack. These are the only moments when you will hear the truth about the man who lies concealed behind the steel wall of his personality disorder.”

The Romeo’s Bleeding series explains a great deal about the methods, whether consciously, unconsciously, or instinctively, that disordered people use on their unsuspecting victims. I have found that accepting the Bad Man’s behavior as just part of the formula for an abusive disorder has helped me to let go of the horrible things he said to me. Honestly (there I go again), his attacks on my character no longer hold any sting for me. Letting go of all the horrible things that part of you absorbed is like performing a detox on your psyche and I believe it is a very important part of healing for all of us.

Never in my life have I encountered such a damaging human being. If I were to continue to carry his words with me, I wouldn’t want to get up each day and go on. There was a short period of time when I was with Bad Man where I remember looking in the mirror and feeling like I was the most worthless human being to ever walk the earth. This was when my sense of self was so weakened that he had nearly total buy-in from me about all the horrible things he said about me, to me. I believe that is part of the hook of carrying on with these disordered people; we want to prove that we aren’t the way they said we are. I know this was true for me. I would get so close to the proverbial door in my mind and then he would say something so outrageous that I couldn’t stand to walk away without defending my character and proving him wrong.

Ask your friends

 

In the blogs, I have advised a reader or two to ask friends or loved ones, people who have known you all your life, to describe you, to you. This is much more likely to be an accurate picture of you. You will be surprised at the generosity you may find among your true friends and loved ones. Some of the things people said to me when I was first out of this nightmare struck me so deeply in my wounded heart. I had been through such cruelty and the words of true friends were like a salve that reduced me to tears and reminded me that goodness does exist in me and outside of me.

Here’s a fun way to deal with healing that wound in you. Just to be silly, you can take the worst things your Bad Man or Bad Woman said to you and make your own game of MadLibs. Remember those? Write out one of the classics (one you feel you could never forget) that has been ruminating in your head for however long and delete all the icky parts and then read it to a friend and have them fill in the blanks for you like this:

Elise, you are such a ____________________woman!
Positive adjective here

Let’s close today with a little musical therapy. You are going to BLEEPING LOVE this!

Barbra Streisand sings Cry Me A River.

Links to Romeo’s Bleeding

 

I highly recommend the Romeo’s Bleeding series of articles sent to me by PeggyPseu. Thanks Peggy!

Romeo’s Bleeding: When Mr. Right Turns Out to Be Mr. Wrong
By Roger Melton

Part 1: Control

Part 2: The Malice Artists

Part 3: The Mirror Men

Part 4: When Love is a 4-Letter Word

Part 5: When love is a 4-Letter Word cont. The Clinging Apocolypse

Part 6: Conclusion: Counter-control



Comment on this article

85 Comments on "The verbal attacks of the sociopath"

Notify of

Yes, the namecalling and projection THAT’s when I had enough.

I started to freak out whne he tried to convince me I was insane. That was the point I couldn’t tolerate. I just switched off and it went downhill from there– well it was always dysfunctional–but after he attempted to shape-shift reality- I KNEW it had to stop.I begged,pleaded and debated my sanity for awhile (I am so ashamed of that, but it’s good to remember so I NEVER EVER GO BACK) with him. And he
tellingly out-of-the-blue early on in knowing him called me a
sociopath. Yep.

hws,

Yep, in every P-realtionship, and even with my P-by-proxy mother. When I was begging her to listen to me about my P-son, I said “He is just like my bio-dad, a psychopath!” and she looked at me and said “Oh, you think it skipped a generation do you?” That was the last conversation with her before I went NC.

I think you are right, Aloha, that we try to PROVE WE ARE NOT WHAT THEY SAY, and that may be why we stay for so long–but in the end, I think for me, the “name calling” and character assasination was what EVENTUALLY pushed me to get out of the relationship. It just got to be too much.

Don’t feel bad, HWS, about “begging, pleading, etc.” I did too. I literally got down on my hands and knees and begged my mother to listen to me before it was too late and the Trojan Horse P killed one of us. I WAS “crazy” with anxiety, grief, fear, frustration, anger,….but in the end, the name calling, the being acused of lies, etc., sparked my sense of self survival and I GOT OUT of this latest and most dangerous chaos.

The XBF-P started the name calling, character assissination, etc about 4 months in to the relationship, slowly at first, but increasing. Thank goodness although it hurt me, I saw through the fog in one blinding “flash of insight” and had the strength to push him to the curb suddenly–which is not what he expected. He expected I would stay and “take it.” It had worked with his X-wife of 32 years, and I think he thought it would work with me.

Thanks, Aloha! Great post as always! Peace. Anytime after that I felt a great “need” or missed the “relationship” I could just conjure up one of those “names” and the look on their faces as they said them, and all my “missing them” almost magicly vanished.

I think I would rather be stabbed with a “real sword” than with the words from someone you love, it would hurt less I think. At least the sword wound would heal and leave no residual pain, but the sharp, horrible words are the “gift that keeps on giving,” pain for a LONG time, until you can finally heal.

Thank you; I needed to read this today. The doubting and wondering whether you heard things right can be so demoralizing and make you feel like you ARE crazy. When I first called the Thief a liar, he flipped out. He could not handle it and went into the first rage I had ever experienced with him. Then when I mentioned that I thought he was a sociopath, well, it just got more and more interesting to see/hear his reactions.

I remember him telling me that one of his “friends” had been murdered by her husband for having an affair–that was the only time he sounded upset to me, because maybe, possibly, he realized his guilt in the triangle. If I’d been in sound mind, I would have thrown out the idea that the husband would be coming for him next.

We all are worth so much more than we know and as painful as it sometimes is, it is so much better that they are gone from our lives. Thank you, Aloha, for so eloquently putting an important topic into good form for learning and understanding.

Aloha/Elise:

I honestly love you right now. If I could find a way to stretch myself to where you are and give you the biggest hug, both in thanks and in validation, I WOULD. Right now.

Yes, I was called a “taker” not a “giver” (me, who always went out of my way to help other people, including him) and told I was a liar and phony and always “on” and so on and so on and so on until I internalized these things.

How did I know? Because my girls could no longer tease me as they used to without me breaking down into tears, worrying that they really believed whatever silliness they were having at the moment. They hadn’t changed. They always rib me, mightily and I always gave as good as I got, right back.

Until about four or five months into the “interaction” with him, when suddenly what they said hurt. When suddenly I wondered if they were telling the truth.

They assured me – sitting there in near tears – that they meant not a word of it. That I was so unlike the things they were saying, and that is why it was funny. Like it always was, right?

Only, no. It wasn’t like it always was. Because his version of reality had colored mine.

No mas.

By the way, my girls and I love Mad Libs. Been playing them for years. Your suggestion just rocks, because it really is just “insert whatever insult here” to them – whether it fit or not.

And whatever his issue stems from – P or N or something never heard of before – it was not accompanied by generosity of spirit, benevolence, the benefit of the doubt or anything that people have always said I had.

Did I make mistakes? Of course. But all the mistakes and things I did to retaliate for a wounded spirit were done to make me feel better, not really with any intent to harm him or even for him to know about. I’m guessing his entire return to my life may have been with an intent to harm. Not sure, but that’s how it appears in retrospect.

Thanks for this beautiful post. There are days I miss him (the good part of him that I suspect is gone forever) and days I am amazingly free. But at all points in between I will come and reread your post, because I need to remember how what he said and did made me feel, long before I bought into that world and retaliated the only ways I could think of.

Good for you, Orphan! I have seen so much growth in your posts and I know you are doing so well!!! Keep up the good work girlfriend! (((big hugs to you too)))))

Thanks, OxDrover. Hugs back to you.

The verbal attacks the greatest weapon they have indeed!

I remember when I would receive (a daily dose) her description of me. Her opinion (projection) of all my bad habits.

Projection: I couldn’t remember anything and had a bad memory!
Truth: I have a very good memory so much so that I can remember the flog I was in when I was with her! She didn’t want me remember all the lies, manipulations and half-truths she told me. Also, she never told me about her past. The only stories that she ever told me were of violence and abuse. Example:

1) Her mother would tell all her children to leave the house in the summer months and not to return until even to use the washroom) before her father would get home from work.

2) Once when her father was intoxicated, he flew the family’s turkey at the wall. Well, I guess there goes Thanksgiving Dinner.

3) When she tried to leave her ex husband, he drove his car into a tree so that both of them would die. He would hold her down and burn her with his cigarette. The list goes on and on.

Not once did I ever hear a good story about any family get together. Not once.

Projection: I had no patience.
Truth: I have the patience of Job. Raising children, believe me you will need patience. If you live with a person with a personality disorder, man do you need patience! But this person didn’t want to work and wait for anything. If she wanted anything, she wanted now! Which explains her love for credit cards. She showed no patience to my sons or myself. If she told us to do something, she expected it done now not later! She had no patience. I can still remember (bad memory indeed) her words, didn’t I tell you to do blank, How many times do I have to tell you to do blank, Blank, I told you to turn down that TV!

Projection: I didn’t like people tell me what to do.
Truth: I work for a living and have people tell me what to do each day of my life. I often ask for people’s opinion about something. If I didn’t like others telling me what to do, why in God’s name would I go and ask anyone for their opinion? I can’t tell you how many times, she would tell me that I was controlling her! (I know just another one of her projections) If I ask her to do something for me, she always said yes, but it was never done. This person does not like other people telling her what to do especially me!

Projection: I let other people use me.
Truth: Well, I did let her use me over and over again. Guess she didn’t like when anyone got a piece of me. I like people and many times will do things for them without any expectation of payment of favor in return. If something bad happen to her, it was because of someone using her. It wasn’t her fault; it was always someone else’s. One of my favorite comments to her was, “there is always someone to blame D, isn’t there!”

These are course just a few, but how I remember the verbal comments.

Aloha:

Great article as always! I have just googled the website below, which discusses triangles, predator/victim, etc., which I think has some significance but I’m not versed enough to see all of the ramifications. Perhaps some of you ladies and gentlemen mroe knowledgeable and better read on Sociopathy can take a peek. (OxDrover?)

http://www.coachingsupervisionacademy.com/our_approach/karpman_drama_triangle.phtml

Peggy,

I recommend that anyone read “Games People Play” by Erick Berne, it explains a LOT of the “games”and “manipulations” that Ps play and the tactics that they use.

The concepts of Transactional Analysis are not so technical that an average person can’t understand them, and when you read the descriptions of the “games” (and the funny names) like “Now I’ve got you, you SOB” and other descriptive terms…but it does give you a bunch of “Ah Ha” moments.

Playing “roles” in “games” and believe me the games are NOT “fun and games” but games like “alcoholic” each must have three roles, the victim, rescurer and persecutor. It is like musical chairs with each person sitting in any of the three seats, and then when the music stops everyone changes seats. The pay off is that usually everyone gets to feel like they have been “abused” by someone else.

Alcoholic is a common one. LEt’s say Joe comes home, drunk again, having spent all the rent money (he’s the persecurtor at that point) and Sue (the victim/wife at that point) meets him at the door, she puts him to bed (she’s a rescuer at that point) then in the morning calls his boss and says he’s sick. then after he sobers up in the morning, she starts berating him for getting drunk again (now she is the persecutor) and Joe the victim, soo she rages at him a while and finally he gets enough and pastes her in the mouth. Now JOe is th epersecutor and Sue the victim, so she calls the cops, and the cop is now the rescuer, and Joe the victim. Then later in the day when she isn’t mad any mroe, Sue goes down and bails Jjoe out of jail by hocking her wedding rings (she’s the rescuer now) and round and round it goes, and it NEVER STOPS. Everyone gets to feel BAD (the pay off).

People can “rescue” others in any circumstance when you do for others what they should and could do for themselves. I.e. you assume the consequences for their behavior and then you becaue of your “good deed” start to tell them what is wrong with them an assume control, tell them what to do. They of course resent this and everyone loses in a game. It prevents true intimacy from happening.

People who play games and rescue others do not set appropriate boundaries—(see my hand waving in the breeze) that was ME ME ME!!!!! People who expect you to rescue them are not healthy adults.

People who play games play all 3 roles, but usually have a “favorite” role. Mine was “rescuer”—doing for others what they should have done for themselves—being too much of a giver.

Many times a P will appear to be playing a “game” but will be doing it deliberately—that isw a MANUVER rather than game playing which is UNconscious. If Ii set out to deliberately trick you, con you, that is deliberate. Ps however use their multiple talents to con us but it may appear to be a “game.”

If we don’t PLAY games, however, we won’t get hooked by a con-person or a P. Treating others considerately and fairly, we are not persecutors, refusing to be victamized and setting boundaries we are not victims, and refusing to rescue someone else from their own responsibilities, we are not rescuers—we are HEALTHY and can be intimate with those we love—truly intimate in the best sense.

First though, we have to become AWARE of a game and STOP playing. People in our circle who are game players, though, will resent the heck out of us changing the “rules” and will do their best to intice us back iinto the games until they see that we are seriously not going to ‘play.’ If they are hardcore players, they will go look for another “partner” to play with.

Intimacy is “scary” because you are REAL not fake and there is no hiding from an intimate relationship—and most of us are not used to real intimacy—but we thought we had it with the Ps–but the real thing is wonderful when two people can be truly honest and intimate with each other—no matter what the relationship is, friend, lover, sibling, parent, child etc. It’s I think what we are all striving for, but as long as we play the “games” we will never get there.

Settiing appropriate boundaries is my biggest goal right now. It’s a good start in opting out of the “games people play.”

Hey, thanks OxDrover for simplifying that. It makes total sense the way you portrayed it. You’re right, those games don’t sound fun at all! It also reminded me of Aloha with the “boundaries”.

“Integrity and conscientiousness remind Controllers of their most profound character flaw. They hate being reminded of what they do not have. They hate those qualities in others because Controllers cannot possess them. That is one reason that they are attracted to integrity. But their attraction is rooted in a desire to dominate or destroy. They must manipulate, rule or emotionally and psychologically annihilate anyone whose soundness of character reminds them of their own profoundly egotistical, selfish and empty natures.”

This is so true! So many times did I feel that the reason she wanted to become of part of my life was because of my own personal persona. She knew that I couldn’t leave once we had children, that I would never be able to leave. She might have been my guard but my children was the chain that bind me to her! Please don’t get me wrong, my children are not chains. No I love them more then my own life, I love them unconditionally. But I believe that my ex-sociopath knew this too and maybe even hated me for it!

“He went on talking to the rabbi for quite a long time and, the longer he talked, the more his voice filled with cold-blooded rage and hate toward the Gestapo. Finally, he was so emotionally choked with hatred that he simply could not speak.
There was a long silence.
Then the rabbi steadily looked the young boy in the eye and simply said, “Oh. I see. You’ve become them.”

This was my worse fear! Insomuch that I had to find a way to forgive her! That by forgiving her, I can forgive myself. It’s in this frame of mind and being that will help me not to become like them!

Great reading! For me it was Juliet bleeding!

Lil Orphan,

I am always happy if my thoughts touch others or help them in some way. :o)

I was just thinking how BM called me “controlling” all the time. He would paste this on my forehead anytime I would try to talk about how much he was hurting me and could he please stop that.

In the first month or so, we went to see Marshall Rosenburg speak about “Non-Violent Communication” and after that he would say, “You are so violent!” Oh Brother.

I am glad he will not read what OxDover wrote about the victim, rescuer, persecutor. BM would be ALL OVER THAT.

Did anyone listen to the YouTube link? Is it just me or does that kick butt or what? I LOVE THAT! I listen to is almost everyday and each time, when Barbara works herself up for the finish, I get this big grin.. stick it to BM for me Barbara! For some reason, this little clip makes me feel so good.

:o)
Aloha

I got called “controlling”, too. Never thought I was, although I do have issues with boundaries from growing-up in a boundary free home. But I didn’t want to control him. I just wanted him to talk to me about things, openly and honestly, what was bothering him. I wanted to understand his way of thinking better, to understand whatever it was he was going through that made him Jekyll and Hyde so much.

While I can see that maybe this is a little controlling, because I am a rescuer type, we had no intimacy left between us because he was so withdrawn – just checked-out of everything.

But I realize now this was not going to help, nor was it my place. If he wanted to tell me, he would have. The fact he did not should have told me enough about what he really thought of our “interaction” and of me.

I do have the tendency to “rescue” though. It’s part of being too nurturing and I have to work through it with my girls, even, letting them be responsible and fail if they don’t do what they’re supposed to do to succeed.

He said I had no right to control his life and that he couldn’t trust me. Oddly enough, those were 2 of the strongest hallmarks of his own character.

He was controlling/manipulative to an extreme, being a cop for 20 years – and lied so frequently and plausibly with no guilt or remorse that he was totally untrustworthy.

He refused intimacy while oozing charm and pretending that he was ‘connected’ to me, while saying (simultaneously) he has no friends and is so guarded.

His 6 year relationship with an alcoholic probably had very little real emotional intimacy in it, and since she was a consistently drunk, very little physical intimacy either.

He verbally attacked me when he was about to get called on the pretenses he put forth. As long as his mask was in place and he was in control, he was fine. But the minute the real him came close to being exposed, he’d attack.

James, you said:

“Integrity and conscientiousness remind Controllers of their most profound character flaw. They hate being reminded of what they do not have. They hate those qualities in others because Controllers cannot possess them. That is one reason that they are attracted to integrity”.

I believe myself to be a very candid person of integritiy. My S had no ethics nor integrity. I found it interesting that when he was signing up for dating sites, seeking a person of integrity was at the top of his list. I presume that he wants to be able to trust someone, although he is most untrustworthy, and that perhaps he thinks either some of his SO’s integrity will rub off on him or that he is believed to be a person of integrity by association.

I think the thing we need to keep in mind in looking at the “triangle” of rescuer/persecutor/victim—is that you can’t play one role without playing all 3 roles ultimately. You may have a favorite role, but the fact is if we play even our favorite role, we also play the others.

If you walk down town and you see a homeless man and you give him $5–you can either be a “helper” or a “rescuer” depending on YOUR motives and thoughts. If he gets up and you watch him move to the liquor store and you are ANGRY at him for spending it on booze–you were a rescuer—if you are NOT angry at him for “wasting” your “help” then you were truly a “helper.” Because once you give the $5 to the man without any strings, it is HIS DECISION what to spend it on. Though of course you would prefer that he spend it on food, you would think it was a better choice, the point is that it is HIS CHOICE to make.

My mother is a big time “rescuer”—but along with her “help” go strings (at least with me) so I have been one that didn’t like to give the “control” that goes along with her “help”—because when you allow people to “do things for you” that you should do for yourself as an adult—then they also want CONTROL. I have not taken a dime from her since I was 17, and I have said time and time again, I would (if necessary) live in a tent and eat out of a McDonald’s dumpster before I would take “help” from her. At least before the NC she would have given me any amount of money I had needed (thank God I didn’t “need” any) but the concomitant control that would have gone with it would have been slavery.

DIL took the money, the new car (that was her con) but when “mommie dearest” (or in this case, Grandmother-in-law-dearest) wanted DIL to wait on her hand and foot, DIL resented the heck out of it. She wanted the cash and cars, but she didn’t want to reciprocate. Since GM-I-L had “been so generous” she thought she was entitled to have DIL be her personal slave. The “law of reciprocity” is in all human cultures. You do a good deed to me and I will do a good deed back. In REAL friendships where neither is abusing the other’s generosity no one “keeps score” but if one of the two is abusing this, you end up with “enabling” and the enabler is the controller and the enabled is in the one-down position, and RESENTMENT will flow from both directions.

People who are MANIPULATORS rather than “game players” (which is unconscious) are out for the con. Many times our Ps are out and out manipulators, I think other times they are just HARD CORE game players. I know my P-son was definitely a manipulator, but my mother is simply a HARD-CORE-dyed-in-the wool game player. She isn’t “aware” of what her motives are, or why she does what she does or what her pay-0ffs are.

Sometimes if people find complimentary game players that like the “same games” that they do, the relationship can be stable for decades or a life time. It isn’t “intimate” but it is STABLE, predictable. If that is what you want out of life, it works I guess but it isn’t what I think any of us WANT. I think our P experiences have made us deeper thinkers, and searchers than simply “game playing.” I think that we are striving, I know I am, to have intimate relationships with all the people in my life, NOT games. Setting boundaries is the only way to achieve that, but because I have a lifetime of game playing practice, I must be vigilent not to allow myself to fall into the “games” again. Not to be coerced back into them by either new or old friends.

James, good quote on that about the boy and the rabbi–and we must not let ourselves “become them.” Or as Pogo would have said “we has found the enemy, and it is us.”

To All,

I see the word “integrity” a lot here. I heard this all the time. Using this word when placing an ad, say on Match, implys to the reader that the author of the ad has integrity. Our brain just fills that in, doesn’t it? I mean who places an ad saying, “I am looking for someone with integrity because I am a blad faced liar.” Haven’t seen that one yet.. but I guess that would have some integrity too it wouldn’t it? At least it’s the truth.

I decided a long time ago… post Bad Man… that if you find yourself constantly defending your character, you are dealing with a disordred person. Think about it… I can not recall ever doing this with anyone else.. explaining my motives, defending what I said, arguing in my defense like a lawyer!

Bad Man would call me out on absolutely ANYTHING. Once I suggested “let’s rent a movie tonight” and then later in the day, suggested something else because I had forgotten about the movie idea and his response was, “A MAN MAKE’S PLANS!!!” Again.. OH BROTHER!!! But of course, this was a BIG FAT ISSUE like everything else and it somehow pointed to character defects in me.

Somehow, anything I said was twisted and contorted in a way that left me defending my character.

How tiring.

Good point, Aloha, come to think of it, I can’t think of anyone I have had to “defend my character to” that wasn’t disordered. Not a single one! The ONLY people who have said my motives were bad, were people whose own motives were bad! DUH! Yep, another of those LIGHT BULB MOMENTS!

At the rate the “light bulbs are flashing” around me, I may go blind from the intensity of the light! Thanks for pointing that out Aloha! You are a strobe light girl! LOL ((((hugs)))))

This article is spot on about the tactics of verbal abusers, but please don’t chalk up honesty to astrology! The Narcissist I tangled with a few years back, who got me into so much trouble at work (he falsely accused me of sexual harassment when I sent a letter to his manager about his verbal abuse), is an Aries born in a Rooster year!
Lying for him is like breathing.

Allure,

Good point. I certainly don’t live my life by the stars and by the way, Bad Man was an Aries. I do find it interesting to read about astrology and I do sound a whole lot like an Aries when I read about it.. I have tried reading about other signs to see if they can fit anyone.. and they don’t fit me.

Anyway, it’s just an opener to an essay. wink wink…

I don’t know that Bad Man was a liar but he sure was a twister of the truth. I used to say, “There may be a grain of truth in what he says but it has been so twisted and contorted that it is barely recognizable.”

I learned all about “Spin” from the Bad Man. It’s all in how you tell the story, isn’t it?

Since you mentioned work… I had the misfortune of working for a Narccissist during my first year back from Maui. She owned a small Wellness Product company.. naturally. I noticed right away that I had a bad feeling during any interaction with her and she reminded me somehow of the Bad Man. She fired me, of course… no wait.. she made my manager fire me. He told me a week before that my head was on the chopping block and she had secretly interviewed the entire team about me one by one and they all stood up for me. I wasn’t doing anything wrong but she felt that I was incompetant because I asked questions. Uh.. hello… I am NEW HERE! I was stuck in a tough spot… I knew she didn’t want to answer questions but if I used my own judgement, I could potentially do something wrong that she didn’t like… It was a no win situation. I found out after I was canned that the place was notorious for having a revolving door… and my Manager called me a few months later to tell me he was fired as well and so was the guy he hired to replace me and so was the new guy in accounting and the other sales lady and on and on and on. She let me go the day a call came in to my sales territory which would have given me about a $1,000 commission. My manager was owed about a $15,000 sales commission but he got let go before that pay out too.

At that time, I was just starting to learn about personality disorders.

Aloha and all,

Remember about “truth” and “lies,” that RAT POISON is 99% PURE CORN MEAL, but it will KILL YOU IF YOU EAT IT.

Many lies have a “grain of truth” to them, or even can have 99% “truth” but the “spin” the “additional ingredients” makes them poison, and if you ingest it it will be fatal.

So many Ps, my X-BF, my bio father-P, my P-son, the Trojan Horse P, my X-DIL-P all use this “grain of truth” type of LIE to put the spin on and draw attention away from the fact that what they are saying is DECEPTIVE.

TH-Ps favorite tactic was to not answer the question. I asked him if my mother gave him the money for the truck and his response was “I have friends in Texas.” Implying, of course that one of those “friends” gave him the money. He later, when the truth came out, said “I didn’t lie, I just didn’t answer the question.” It was DECEPTIVE, and if you look up the definition in the dictionary it is the SAME.

I finally got to the point that I could tell when he was lying by the fact he used this “non-answer” technique on any question he didn’t want to answer, but by then he had wormed his way into my mother’s mind to where I couldn’t do anything about it.

I saw a letter written from my P-son to my DIL and though I don’t know exactly what her letter to him that he was answering was, I can pretty well tell by his response, what was in her letter. He told her how that “lighting one candle from another one didn’t diminish the light of the first candle at all” This was apparently in the context of her affair with the Trojan Horse P—like DUH! He went on to say that she had two parents and loved them both, so it was okay for her to “love two men”—well, I am sure my son C (who at that time didn’t know about the affair) would not have felt it was OK for his wife to have a lover and not feel diminished from her “lighting that candle” LOL

He sounded so “caring” to her, yet the letters he wrote to the Trojan Horse P about their affair (the TH-P and she were into the bondage thing) he was laughing about the TH-P’s “personal slave.” I’m sure she had no idea that the TH-P was sharing the details of their perverted sex life with my P-son. In fact, the TH-P had taken photos of her naked and bound and the P-son was expecting copies of them to be mailed to him. We found these photographs after the TH-P’s and the DIL’s arrest. Along with the letters which TH-P had saved, thank goodness. It laid out the entire scenario.

What kind of a brother promotes his brother’s wife having an affair with a psychopath? Of course, a psychopathic one! What kind of a woman has an affair and when it is discovered, plots of kill her husband? A psychopathic one of course. So when you get 3 Ps working together they not only screw the victims, but each other as well. All in the name of ENTITLEMENT. I’m entitled to your money even if I have to kill you for it because you gave birth to me. I am entitled to have an affair with my friend’s wife…I am entitled to take money from a trusting old lady because I drove her around for a few months (even though she paid me)…. I am entitled. I am entitled to the title and possession of the truck I defrauded her out of because I was smart enough to tear up the loan agreement.

Aloha, I guess she figured out it was easier to fire someone than to pay the commissions on sales. Good policy for HER. Yep, she’s a P all right.

this article really helped me. the things they say are complete reflections of their own insecurities. i can think of different instances of this.

like once when he told me that he was talking about me to his friend (living off her mom’s government housing) who said something to the effect of i needed my daddy to help me. haha? meanwhile he was living off of my father and the rent he paid. much later he suggested we were meant to be together and i said ‘you don’t even pay your own rent.’ and he said ‘you can’t talk to me that way, you bitch.’ why the hell not? finally i got him. 😉

peggywhoever

“I presume that he wants to be able to trust someone, although he is most untrustworthy, and that perhaps he thinks either some of his SO’s integrity will rub off on him or that he is believed to be a person of integrity by association.”

Yes, I agree! I believe they need to be associated with people who indeed show personal behavior of Integrity and conscientiousness. It’s part of their cover. Like, “you see my partner! What a good person she/he is, I am like her/he or we wouldn’t be together, right?” Wrong! I also believe that they try to incorporate (act and behave) us.

This would explain why so many people tell stories of how much their ex-partners changed (personal persona, personality and their style in general) in a short time while being with their new (victim) soul mate.

I did see this happen in her (ex) as well. In fact she even stated that to me, saying “he is more like me”. Okay? What does that mean? More like someone else? Well after learning more about Him, I found out that his wife left him and moved about 3 states away from him, leaving him with a child. He is a know drug user. After being a manual laborer for many years his body is shot! The only commonalty I saw was that both of them had very little education and both are blue-collar workers. Guess he is more like her?

OxDrover

“I think the thing we need to keep in mind in looking at the “triangle” of rescuer/persecutor/victim”

I agree, but please OxDrover allow me to state this. You see when I decided to stop being a partner to this dysfunctional dance, i.e. rescuer/persecutor/victim.

That in fact I did resolve to stop being a rescuer: example (she wanted a car, I told her to please have someone else co-sign for her this time.) *Please remember that she refused to marriage me and felt that because she wasn’t my “legal” wife I had no financial responsibility toward her. Plus something just told me not to do it and thank God I didn’t because you know who would have that car today!*

That in fact I did resolve to stop being a persecutor: example (If I saw her do something wrong, like lying. I refused to call her on it)

That in fact I did resolve to stop being a victim: example (I told her more then once that I will not be verbally abuse anymore. And if she didn’t stop I would call the police. Well, she would just unplug the phone, but it gave her a message loud and clear. NO MORE!)

Unbeknown to me, because of this decision, I was on my way out! I believe in my heart and soul that this is why she left me. That in fact she started looking for a new partner who would in fact be a dancer in this “triangle”. I believe this so much that in fact at the time of me writing this blog, she is still going thru the motions of this very dysfunctional dance, i.e. rescuer/persecutor/victim. Just with someone else.

“Sometimes if people find complimentary game players that like the “same games” that they do, the relationship can be stable for decades or a life time. It isn’t “intimate” but it is STABLE, predictable. If that is what you want out of life, it works I guess but it isn’t what I think any of us WANT. I think our P experiences have made us deeper thinkers, and searchers than simply “game playing.” I think that we are striving, I know I am, to have intimate relationships with all the people in my life, NOT games. Setting boundaries is the only way to achieve that, but because I have a lifetime of game playing practice, I must be vigilent not to allow myself to fall into the “games” again. Not to be coerced back into them by either new or old friends”

Yes, Yes! I believe there are many relationship (maybe like the one she has now and that would explain why he is more like her with them both being “players”) like that. And I guess it works for them, but for me it will never work. I want more then games/players in my personal life and relationships.

I am sad to announce the death of Kathy Krajco author the blog “What makes narcissists tick.”

Her work opened my eyes. And her insight was uncanny- she knew narcissists/psychopaths better than anyone I read.

Here’s to you Kathy! Godspeed.

Please pray for her soul. http://obit.schneiderfuneraldirectors.com/obitdisplay.html?id=541468&listing=All

ps

I suspect she died in the middle of April because I had been in correspondence with her and did not receive a reply in April.

I say this because it is a final lesson of sort for us, those who deal with psychos, we sometimes end up alone but at peace. Reading Kathy I know she was at least happy with the knowledge that our own company is better than ANY company, for me she was a role model par excellence–and that is something coming from me a orthodox Catholic and she at her death an atheist.

Pray for her soul.

I was told I had a ugly face, that I stunk, that I sweat too much, that my butt was really big (I weigh 110 btw), that I was not as smart as some people, that my breasts were too small, that my son did not behave as well as some, that I was not loved as much as he loved a past a girlfriend. Then when he started to devalue me and discard me when I was 6 months pregnant, he said that he didn’t know if I was his type. Then he told me he was in love with another women and he wanted to try it out with her. Finally on the day he was leaving, I was 6 months pregnant, he looked at me with plessure in his eyes and said “no one has ever left you for another women, have they?”

Bird-

He’s a loser in every sense of the word. If he never came back—that was the BEST day of your life.

I’m saddened to learn of Kathy’s passing. She was a bright light and very great resource for so many of us. I hope she is very peaceful and if there was a P in her life, that she now can rest assured in Heaven he will never be able to bother her there!

She will be missed.

Bird,

He did you the biggest favor a P has ever done a human–he left you! It doesn’t mean it didn’t hurt, but sometimes even “good medicine” is painful. I am sorry for your pain, but I am oh so glad the P left you. The pain is not permanent (though sometimes it seems so) but being away from the P is a godsend to both you and your child. (((hugs))))

I too was shocked and saddened by Kathy’s death. Does anyone know the cause? She had great insight and understanding and she was a terrific writer. Rest in peace, Kathy.

Dear Bird,

You know, his parting words will help to remind you what he was. No one normal delights in hurting someone they claim they once loved. Plain and simple.. this is not normal. What a prick. I am sorry you crossed paths with him.

Raise your baby alone. I would. There is nothing to get from this man except anxiety, grief, hair loss, panic attacks, por self esteem… and more… Keep reading. It’s all here.

thanks everyone. I am now 7 months pregnant, and every hour is a new emotional experience. I don’t know what I would have done without this website.

Dear Bird,

Hang in there Bird, the people here on this website do understand what you have gone through, and will be here for you. You came to the right place. I can only imagine what a tough time being preg during such an emotionally upsetting time, but you post any time you need to “talk”–my prayers are with you and your wonderful baby. No matter about the P, you have your baby! Put your arms around your belly and hug that baby and tell him/her it is from their “Aunt Oxy!”

Bird,

I think sometimes something really big in your life can help to shift your perspective on things. Like having a baby… once you have that baby, you will be so busy that maybe you will just forget about all this nonsense with a Bad Man like the one you describe.

It just isn’t worth it to waste our time and our love and energy on these stupid psychos.

A baby is the perfect outlet for lavishing all the love and tenderness you have to give. And the baby deserves it and will grow up to be a better person for having been lovingly nurtured by you. A Sociopath, on the other hand, does not deserve our love and affection, nor will he benefit or grow from it in the way we intend.

I wish you all the best!

Aloha :o)

Funny but when a Sociopath leaves us, it is the only good thing they could ever do for that person. I just wish that they (and most if not all don’t) would leave sooner then later. Most (unless we start to get wise about them) wait until we are completely drained emotionally, mentally and financially. As there is a God above, my ex S leaving me is a pure blessing!

Bird,

All that I can say being a man and father my self is that any man (sorry he isn’t a man) that would leave a woman who is pregnant is the worst type of person. One thing that chained me to my ex S was because she got pregnant. Once the children were part of the scenario leaving wasn’t an option for me. I HAD to make it work. Of course I now see that she knew this and even if using a child to get what (at the time anyway) she wanted well so be it. One good thing is that you now will be able to “protect” your child from his influence and teach him/her not to be like his/her father. Giving both of you a much brighter future. Bird, I know that my children are and will always be my saving grace. Having a child is hard even when we are still married. Having a child along will be harder. But having a child or children in our lives has a way of giving more then we can ever give to them. Someday soon that new bright shinning small (wrinkle) face will look into yours and then you will feel a love you never knew before. May God bless you both!

Funny thing about this life.
One ends (Kathy Krajco)
Another begins…………………

That’s *exactly* what they’re best at!!

My friends and I just found out that someone we allowed into our group is a sociopath, and by god, he played all of us for everything we were worth. I mean, I find myself thanking god that I’m flat freakin’ broke, because if I had a cent to my name I’m sure he would have conned me out of it.

The really hilarious part is that I’ve been through this before. My mother, while not a sociopath, was a master manipulator; she could play with the best of them, and through simple observation I learned every one of her tricks. And still! He managed to screw me over but good.

The real kicker, ladies and gents, is that he didn’t stop with just me. Oh, no. Too easy. My husband and I are moving in to a house with another couple of long-time friends, and when I shut the b*stard down he started on them! I suppose it was punishment. All four of us are a little gunshy about moving in together, as we’ve had bad experiences in the past, and when those concerns came up he fueled the fire. Moreover, he made a huge deal about how heartless I was, how evil I was being to them, and made simple disagreements (such as whether or not to have books in the living room) out to be major crises. Logically any fool knows that so small a situation is not an end-all-be-all, but he had them going for a while. He deliberately played on their fears and legitimate concerns to prevent my husband and me from moving in with them, most likely to punish the two of us for banning him from our lives.

They don’t just tuck tail and run, these guys. Not when there’s even a centimeter left to take. Watch out if you think you’ve ejected them from your life, people, because if there’s any amount of exploitable turf left over, it’ll be compromised before you can say “Oh shi–“

I think he won. I have become a worthless shell. A broken shell. The shell from a stinky rotten egg. I am 16000 + miles away from him and it still feels like he is always standing right behind me. I wrote a quick note in another blog and it only got one reply. I told myself see, even they think your nuts. I stated that I was afraid that he would somehow find out that I was even thinking that he might be a sociopath and really go balastic. I have often heard that for ever finger you point at someone else you have 10 pointing back at you. I want someone to validate my assumptions. I have read different stories and descriptions and all I can do is act like those little fake dogs people used to put in the back window of their car who’s head just keeps bobbing up and down as if they were saying yes, yes, yes, yep. I left with a couple small boxes and a few hefty bags in the back of my Jeep. A shelter gave me a few gas cards. I am now sleeping in a basement. Cleaning toilets, painting, relining shorelines in 53 degree weather just to put gas in my tank. I can not even afford the clothes at the thrift store. I finally started a job today at a treatment center and received a $160.00 ticket for speeding. As I was sitting in on a staffing they were talking about a young man describing him as a sociopath. As they were talking about why they felt this all I could do was bob my head in agreement. I could start to feel the tears well up in my eyes and I thought “PSYCO” who’s the “PSYCHo” Here I am at a job were I should be helping others and I can not even help myself. I screwed up some of my painting jobs, I did a crappy job cutting someones lawn. I am so afraid to do anything that I actually thought that I should call “HIM” up and beg him to let me come back. I’ll comply, I’ll be submissive and obedient, I’ll jump higher all while not complaining. I am a recovering alcoholic and have not drank in almost 5 1/2 years. I survived bad health news, my oldest son (26) dying and my sister dying of cancer last year with out even thinking of taking a drink. But I have been having drinking thoughts lately. I have even caught myself saying that I am lucky I have one son and a grandson and twin on the way or “ELSE”. I want to put an add on craigs list to say wanted one man to come over and hold, only hold me through one sappy chick on a on call basis.(not really) But that’s how crazy I am.
I can not say I did not see this coming. I had questions from the start. I asked and he never really answered me. Even though I doubted him I accepted the answers because I was afraid that I would make him mad if I questioned him, DUH!!!!!
He said come to Arizona and let me take care of you, when he meant come to Arizona and be my prisoner; take care of me, you can only do what I approve of, I will buy you things but only things I like, I will do things to you even though I know you don’t like it, you will make sure that you buy “hard” apples because if you pack a soft one I will have to let you know about it, wash my clothes but make sure you iron them properly, mow the lawn, fix the car, appliances, lawn equipment and anticipate when I will come home so you will have dinner ready and waiting, but do not put too much garlic in it…I have hep c and I am sick so I need you to do this for me so all I have to do is concentrate on work, the fact that you were diagnosed with two forms of brain tumors has no relevance to me at all. Oh, but by the way, I will chew my own food and I will wipe my own butt. However, if you dare have the odacity to end up on a cardiac unit and make me take care of myself for a few days then expect ME to get your heart medicine the next day; I will throw a couple hundred $ on the bed and abandoned you for 5 days because the stress will be to much and I will need a break. All of this and I still think that I am the CRAZY one, I feel I am bad for thinking he might be a sociopath. He changed the locks on the doors of our house less than 48 hours after I went to the shelter. He said he wanted a divorce and that he was through with me. He said he had to pay my bills because I would not work….HE WOULD NOT LET ME. I should be grateful that he’s not begging me back with false promises..only to become a statistic. He never held me in his arms, he never kissed me with an ounce of passion and I still keep thinking if only. Maybe I was too picky. No one is perfect. Please, please PLEASE…if you can give me any HOPE that just maybe I might become somewhat sane again (if I ever was) please share. Please help me so I do not have to keep reminding myself to breathe. Thank you. Sorry if I spelled anything wrong I do not know how to use the spell check.

Thank you for your time and consideration…..

Dear Molly,

I think I am safe in saying that NO ONE HERE will “think you are crazy”–believe me, there are people here who have lived through events just as “crazy”–but it is the events that are crazy, not you.

You have had more stress in your life than any one person can handle alone, and your reaction was “normal” to that much stress. “a normal reaction to an abnormal situation would be abnormal.”

Healing is something that you have to do for yourself, but there are people here to support and cheer you on, answer questions, listen when you need to vent, and just be “there for you.”

Yes, there IS HOPE, and the fact that you have stayed sober through all the deaths and other losses, proves to me that YOU ARE A STRONGER WOMAN THAN YOU GIVE YOURSELF CREDIT FOR. We all are and it is about TAKING BACK THAT POWER and STRENGTH!

Yes, he is a sociopath (psychopath) because no one would treat you like that if they weren’t. A psychopath has no conscience, and nothing is about you, it is ALL about them. They shift the blame for all their problems on to someone else in order to make themselves feel better—they abuse you and it is all about CONTROL., Believe it or not, the bEST thing he did to you was leave you…you WILL HEAL, but he will always be what he is—an empty box pretending to be a human.

(((Hugs)))) and prayers, God bless you in your healing path.

Molly,

It sounds like it feels as if things are spinning out of control. They may be. And it may take awhile to get som footing. I felt this too when I left Bad Man.

Your ticket reminded me of the little accident I had three days after getting home. I hiit a parked car while parking a friends new “dream car”, as if I didn’t have enough problems. The other car belonged to her client. Both cars were damaged enough to make a claim. I honestly think this happened because I was in a state similiar to the one you are in right now.

When you leave a Sociopath, I think you kind of go through shock a little. That basket case, barely can function.. feeling… been there.

Don’t expect to leave the situation you were in and start to feel normal right away. You have a lot of pain to work through. When I first left the Bad Man, I lost 4 jobs in the first year, moved 9 times back and forth between different friends and lived out of my suitcases which drove me nuts. I practically cried when my friends that I live with now gave me an old dresser. I like order and I like feeling rooted. I lived with different friends, most of which did not understand at all what I had happened and no one, not even me, understood that I was suffering with PTSD.

If you are concerned about drinking, find an AA meeting right away. That might help you to feel connected to some people in a new area.

Also, Molly, I totally understand the desire to find someone to hold you.. just hold you and not try to take anything from you. You are on empty right now. I had absolutely nothing to give anyone for a long long time. I used to do massage and still, I just can’t do it. And I still have that srong desire for someone to hold me. I guess it’s like a battery recharging.

But things did finally stop spinning out of control. This has not been an easy road. I have made a lot of mistakes and met a most unfortunate character that just about took me all the way down but I am bouncing back.

You will bounce back Molly. You will be a different person on the other side of this. Hang in there.

My heart goes out to you.. Aloha.

Dear Molly,

I hope you are having a better day today. The need to have someone HOLD YOU is so normal. We ALL I think would love someone to just take us in their arms like a mother comforts a child.

The need for human TOUCH is so strong in us, and I think it really doesn’t matter who that touch comes from as long as it is human and kind.

Take a child on your lap in your shelter–hold that child and comfort the child, and I think it will amaze you how doing that, just feeling the child there will comfort YOU. That touch.

Sometimes I get so lonely at night in my bed, just wanting someone—anyone—male, female, young, old, etc. to be there to touch me as I sleep. NOT sexually at all, just someone to touch me. After swearing for years I would never have another dog in the house, I now have a little terrier that I let sleep with me, and just the warmth of his body there against my legs comforts me. I didn’t get him for that purpose, but it just worked out that way, and I realized that feeling his warmth was VERY comforting to me.

I’m also fortunate that I have a son to hug frequently, and friends. I take advantage of any human touch that is available. It really does help. I am sure that if you are working in a shelter that there are other women there that need touch as badly as you do, so you can help youself and them too. (((hugs))) and God bless you! You ARE a strong person!

Hello everyone and thank you sooo very much for responding too my blog. I appreciate the warm thoughts and feedback very much. I felt very uncomfortable even putting my rambling thoughts out there for the world to see. I used to work at a womens shelter when I was only 19 years old. I was a Probation and Parole agent for 10 years and served on several DV and mental health boards. I felt and continue to feel a lot of shame…because, I should have known better. I use to stand up to convicted murders and high risk sex offenders all the time without an ounce of fear, still I feared my husband even though he had not laid a hand on me yet. I somehow smelt, and felt that the physical part was right around the corner as evidenced by his escalating outbursts. His posture, the inflections in his voice, the darkness almost manic look in his eyes, told me he was ready to explode. He could no longer even keep his composure regarding his dissatisfaction with me when he spoke to others. His “wonderful beautiful” wife who he so appreciated that she never complained and took care of everything so that he could just focus on work; suddenly became a f%^**^ Bit^$^%& once she started to stand her ground.
Molly is short for “The unsinkable Molly Brown”, a nickname I was given when I was only 19 years old. I know that I have been able to get through quite a bit in my life and I have heard the saying that God never gives you more than you can handle. However, sometime I just want a time out. Sometimes I think he gives me too much credit. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired. I have found a bit of strength in a old Bonnie Raitt song…. “I will not be broken” it says something like “I might bend, but I will not be broken”. If I break he wins. He has “broke” quite a few women prior to me. One would not even let him make a amends to her, another committed suicide/ od, another had a relapse.

As for the dog thing…I really understand. I am currently house sitting and the owner has a black lab…Tiger. She does not leave my side once I arrive at the house. She even sneaks down stairs to the basement and jumps in the bed with me at night. The other night I found my self crying to a dog. It is almost like she knows my heart and spirit are broken.

Thank you to everyone once again.

Dear Molly,

Don’t feel bad because you “should have known”—I am a retired registered nurse practitioner with mental health background—I should have known—Dr. Leedom is a psychiatrist for goodness sakes–she should have known—etc. but we sometimes forget that we are PEOPLE to, and when we are in the FOG all our “knowledge” goes out the window. Aloha called it “INFORMED DENIAL” and I think that sums it up. We were informed, and yet we denied—bottom line, we are HUMAN too, we have faults too, we can be in denial too. Just because we know doesn’t mean we can accept it any better than someone else. In my case, I felt quite frankly, arrogant that I would never let a man abuse me—and yet, I let my SON abuse me. Then after my husband’s death, I let a man abuse me emotionally—and who knows, if I had stood up for myself he might have made it physical abuse as well. Fortunately, I kicked him to the curb before that happened.

So being “informed” and “educated” to these things is no guarentee that we won’t volunteer to be victims too.

Beating up on yourself because “you should have known” isn’t productive, but I think most if not all of us do in retrospect ask ourselves “WHY DID I LET THAT MAN TREAT ME THAT WAY?” OR “I WAS SO STUPID TO LET THAT MAN TREAT ME THAT WAY”

Boy, o, boy! Was I ever MAD AT MYSELF for it all, beat myself up worse than any of the Ps ever did—but now, I realize that I ahve to let that anger AT MYSELF go, and heal. Put it behind me. Forgive myself. Forgive them (not trust them again, but get the bitterness out of my heart).

My 31 yr old son D told me today that I stay too “angry”–angry at people who abuse animals, turn them loose in the country side to starve, raid livestock, etc. and then I have to be the one to put them down. Yes, it DOES make me angry. And yes, I feel pity for the animals, and it isn’t their fault that they have to end their lives on the front end of a rifle. It makes me VERY angry at injustice that makes others (even animals) suffer for someone else’s lack of empathy compassion and good sense. I do think though, that my son is right—I do get too worked up about suffering engendered by uncaring people. I can’t take in every stray dog that someone “drops” in the country, and I can’t let it kill my livestock, so there’s not any other viable choice, but to humanely put them down. Still, it SUCKS….I think everyone on here knows how I love animals, and even animals that we kill for food here on our farm are humanely put down WITHOUT FEAR or emotional trauma. (Yes, even cows can suffer emotional trauma–I had a very gentle cow once that had to have surgery on her eye, and even injections to numb the pain were so painful that she suffered PTSD to the end of her life, and if you tried to give her any kind of injection or confine her to do so, she went CRAZY and would have killed herself or you in the process, so she ended up without any vaccines or wormers for the 7 yrs she lived after that painful episode.)

What the Ps do to us and others makes me angry–and maybe my son is right, I need to work on that anger more. I have been, but maybe I need to do some more. When I read about Amy’s three children being killed by her P husband to punish her even though she had tried and tried through the courts to keep him away from her children and the judge MADE HER LET HIM HAVE UNSUPERVISED VISITS and then he killed them, I was so angry and depressed for several days I could hardly cope.

I know I can’t “fix” the world, or even one P, but I can and will work on MYSELF and my healing. Even Jesus was angry at hypocricy, so anger itself isn’t a “sin” I don’t think, but letting it overcome us, infiltrate EVERY portion of our beings, isn’t good for us either. Letting our justifiable anger at injustice become WRATH, which is a smoldering, vengeful anger is not good. The Bible tells us to “not let the sun go down upon your wrath”—if you are wrathful, you need to control it, and I guess maybe I am a bit wrathful when I see or hear about injustice that causes pain. I’ll work on that.

Yes, Free, the empathy that a dog feels is REAL, they somehow know you are suffering and they want to comfort you. Lots of studies have shown that pet animals give comfort to humans, lowering blood pressure, and lots of things. I wouldn’t take anything for my “critters”—even watching the cows with their calves nursing is comforting to me. Seeing new birth each spring gives me hope—flowers, baby birds, kittens, calves, new green on the trees.

Hey Molly-

I loved your metaphor of the bobbing dog. And I apologize for not replying to you….because I recall what you wrote– I felt the same thing. Fear I’d be found out, but I learned psycho does not care. It’s a long story, but suffice to say I know I could print out leaflets, hand them out on the corner and he’d not flinch.

I know for a fact he paid no attention to his exwife’s online postings…I learned a lot about his behavior. Interestingly he is now taunting her online–I am sure it is aggravating him, but she he has not took the bait…I know that for sure.

Anyways- I want to say you are on the verge of better, hell…you are away from psycho…bravo. Your story is incredible and inspiring….I have this feeling reading your post- you are going to triumph. I am sorry I am not a psychic or a motivational speaker, but your life is timeless, I mean I read stories like it….struggle, despair and redemption.

Keep us posted. I want to know what happens.

HWS

Thank God for this website. In these pages I see my husband’s treatment of me. He has called me so many horrible things over the years. Eight years ago, I called the police on him because he was being physically abusive. To this day, he still accuses me of setting him up. I am finally divorcing him but it is a hard path and I fear he has gotten complete control of our 15 year old daughter. She has been manipulated by him all of our life and wants to live with him. Our son is more aware of what kind of a man my husband really is.

So many times over the years I felt like I was losing my mind. During our last separation, he convinced his attorney that he was the victim and I was mentally ill (bipolar or something). For a while he even had me wondering about my own mental health. There is so much to say, I cannot even start to write about it. I just want to thank all of you for sharing your experiences.

Dear Been There,

Welcome, and sorry you have to be here, but this is a healing place. READ and LEARN, that is your best defense. They try to put the “blame” on us to the point that we start blaming ourselves, but it is not about US, it is ALL about THEM–and CONTROL—-

Take CONTROL of yourself, your thoughts, your feelings, and don’t let his lies and slanders convince you that you are behaving wrongly.

Your daughter, unfortunately, will have to find her own “truth” and sometimes it is best to let them go with the psychopath for a little while and find it themselves. Especially teenagers.

God bless you in your healing! (((hugs)))))

Molly

I understand your pain so completely. So may times I wanted to kill myself because I just couldn’t go on any longer. The only thing that stopped me was the fear of what would happen to my children without me.

His favourite pet name for me was ‘f’ing bitch’ or ‘psycho bitch’. He told me that nobody liked me, that people only tolerated me because they liked him and felt sorry for him for being stuck with me. After my Father died of Alzheimers, he started telling me that I was forgetting things, that I was getting like my Father (very Gaslight!). He told me I needed to see a psychiatrist because I had mental problems – well I certainly did after he came into my life!

After years of this name calling (and this is only a very small sample) I was a pathetic, gibbering wreck. I clung to him, hoping and hoping that he would not leave me because nobody else would ever want me and I’d be all alone.

Eventually, he did leave because he’d taken as much money as he could get out of me and he moved on to the next one.

This was all several years ago and it is only now that I am getting back to anything like normal. Part of the reason it has taken so long is because I’ve had to work it all out on my own without any help from anybody. All my friends and family had been alienated and I thought it was my fault so I never approached them to help me. I only found this website recently and I wish to God I’d found it years ago, it would have helped me understand things so much more quickly. The understanding is one of the 1st steps on the way to recovery. Once you realise that its not YOU, its HIM, you can start to move forward.

So, what I want to say to you is stay with this site, talk to the people here, never be afraid to reach out for support.

I am still struggling horrendously in financial terms because of the money he took from me. However, emotionally I am stronger now than I ever have been. I believe in myself like I never did before. I enjoy every day and no longer ever think about ending it all. I never would have believed that this could be possible when I was in the depths of my utter misery and depression. My recovery really started to grow wings once i realised that it wasn’t my fault, I had nothing to be ashamed of. Once I realised this, I started to confide in new friends and also underwent some therapy.

Sharing with others will help you more than you can ever imagine, so keep posting!

Both of my exes have done this to me in extreme ways to the point where I really honestly started to believe what they said. And the second ex, because I had confided in him about my first relationship, actually did use many of the same insults, I guess because he knew they would work on me. This really does make me understand things from a whole new light. It’s awful that there are actually people like this out there- and they seem so charming at first.
My exes would say horrible horrible things to me for hours on end and then apologize later or pretend they didn’t say them and accuse me of just holding a grudge or making things up. Trying to stand up for myself was awful because they could never take it- it just echoed right back to me. “I can’t take this, please stop talking to me like this” was responded to with “I can’t take it when YOU talk to me like this! Respect my boundaries!” The most agonizing thing was constantly being called a liar. It didn’t matter how much proof I had or how official it was or where it came from- there was still a crucial missing piece that they were “sure” to sniff out, and when they didn’t, they’d throw their attention elsewhere or set me up for failure so they could point their fingers and say “I told you that you were going to do that!”
And it really is true that most of what they say is actually referencing their own flaws, but they’ve conned so many people around them who don’t know them well enough that no one gets it.
I have been called crazy, controlling, manipulative, disrespectful, a whore, a slut, an automaton (THAT one was particularly creative, I thought), a bitch, ugly, bad in bed, a person who “crushes other’s dreams underfoot” (he was a poet)- thank goodness I don’t believe any of it anymore. (Though I do have to look at positive affirmation flashcards everyday.) To add insult to injury, when I would sit there in stunned silence after all of this, they would have the audacity to say “see, you can’t even defend yourself!”
Despite all this, I really have faith that if he put his mind to it and really tried, one of my exes could get past this. The other one was a diagnosed soiopath and I know he’ll never learn, and that makes me really sad for him. Life is so beautiful and love can be so gentle- why do they have to go and make it so difficult?
None of us here need to be ashamed of what we have endured. I wish you all a healthy recovery.

Send this to a friend