By | January 4, 2012 97 Comments

Unforgiven Fear Mongers – Who is hurting me now?

Editor’s note: The following article refers to spiritual concepts. Please read Lovefraud’s statement on Spiritual Recovery.

If someone is continuously harming you, and refuses to stop, should they be forgiven?  This is a question that I hope you will try answer at the end of this post.

My dad is a convicted serial killer.  He killed 4 people and told me about the crimes with great pride.  He used me, his favorite son, to help him destroy evidence when he felt that I might be a risk. He made me a part of this so that I would not go to police.  He abused my mom, and brothers and sisters.

This is not the place to try to make one experience with a sociopath out to be any worse than another, they all bring about the same feelings of shame, guilt and often times depression.  The question really is”¦”what do we do with these experiences?”

As far as I can tell, based on my own experience, is that we have only two choices.  We can let go through forgiveness and find freedom that we never imagined possible turning this nightmare into a net gain that becomes a gift, or we can resist the lesson and continue to punish ourselves for the rest of our lives.

This is The Choice.

How does it make you feel when you think of the pain that was caused by your experience with a sociopath?  Take a few minutes to look within yourself and be honest about how it makes you feel to think about the events that happened to you as a result of your encounter with a sociopath.

If you feel sick, sad, guilty, or regret the past, ask yourself who is harming you with these thoughts and feelings right now.  If the sociopath is not in your life at this time and you are still feeling this pain, where is it coming from and why is it still there?  Finally, if you still feel this way, are you not continuing to give the sociopath the power to control your life and poison existing relationships?

These are tough questions and the answers did not come easy for me.  As long as I was not willing to let go of the past, I continued to suffer.  As a result, I had paralyzing migraine headaches, chronic back pain, nightmares, irritable bowel syndrome and other illnesses that plagued me as a young adult long after my father went to prison.

I “thought” he didn’t deserve forgiveness.  In fact, I was sure of it.  That is because I did not know what forgiveness is.  What I did not realize was that it was not him that I was hurting, but me.

Once again, forgiveness really has very little to do with the other person.  It does not condone the behavior, release them from their responsibilities or say It’s OK to harm people.  What forgiveness really does is release us from an emotional prison that we have created for ourselves.  We hold the key and don’t even know it; because “we think” forgiveness tells the perpetrator that what they did is OK.  Forgiveness is only accepting what already is and what cannot be changed.

There is A Miracle that awaits us when we do this and it changes everything.  Our perspective changes, our outlook upon life improves, and happiness is restored.

Why are so many of us so unwilling to let go of the past?  I don’t know the answer to that, but I do know this, a simple willingness is all that’s needed to make The Miracle possible.  God will show you the way if you ask for His help with a sincere willingness to be free of the past.

Part of the Miracle is that when we let go of the past, we stop repeating it.  Freedom has all kinds of rewards and the end result is gratitude for the experience because of what it really offered.  Listen to those that have found their freedom from forgiving others (and themselves) and you will see this Truth.

Today, The Miracle for me is that I have learned The Truth about suffering.  The only thing that has the power to harm me now is my thoughts.  This is where all suffering comes from.  Freedom from this comes from letting go of the past.

I have none of those physical and emotional illnesses today.  The one thing that changed everything for me was a decision to learn about and pursue forgiveness.  I first had to accept that I knew nothing about what forgiveness really meant.

This helped me to learn a little bit about exactly who was hurting me and why.  If I cannot forgive him for hurting me, then how can I forgive myself for continuing to hurt myself with the experience long after it happened?  I have forgiven myself, but I needed to see the benefits first, trust the process, and forgive my father to be able to do it.

My dad is still on death row and is no threat to me or my family.  He cannot harm me anymore.  When I forgave my father, all I really said was “you can’t hurt me anymore.”

As for me?  I still have do work daily to keep from hurting myself with negative thoughts, but at least I am aware of who is really doing the hurting now and know what to do about it.  Awareness is a great spiritual gift.  I have found much of heaven and am grateful.

I will continue to write weekly here, but for those that are interested and willing to go more deeply into the process of letting go, please join A Course In Forgiving  (begins January 19, 2012).  I did not come here to promote The Course, but to offer it to those that feel moved to do something more about the pain in their lives.

There is no fee of (optional donation of up to $25.00) for the six week online course.  This Course is designed to guide participants through the Step by Step Spiritual Process of Letting Go with weekly lessons, readings and exercises that are intended to open the pathway to healing and Peace.

If interested, please visit and click the link in the left hand column titled “Six Week Course Online”.  For those that participate, I will be available by phone and email to share experience in addition to this weekly blog on Lovefraud.


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You and I are lucky, in a way, because the sociopaths we dealt with can no longer hurt us. Yours is in prison, and mine is bankrupt on the other side of the world.

Some of our readers, however, aren’t as lucky. Many, for example, are attempting to co-parent with sociopaths, which is a joke, because the sociopath’s only concern is hurting them – usually through the children.

But I think your message can help those readers as well. Because through releasing the emotional attachments, we decrease the sociopath’s ability to hurt us, even though we still have to deal with them. It also helps us find the strength to counteract the sociopath’s destructive behavior.

I am glad you are offering your course to Lovefraud readers.

the phoenix

While sometimes it is tough to forgive people of the ‘crimes’ they commit against us, once you have done it, the world, your world, is a much better place. Their sins are not our burdens to carry or to pay for on judgement day.

Ox Drover


When I finally overcame the mind-bending propaganda that my egg donor’s view of religion, and therefore The definition of “forgiveness is pretending it never happened, and restoring trust to some one you knew would continue the bad behavior” was overcome, and I realized that “forgiveness” does NOT mean either restoring trust OR continuing the relationship with the person who acted badly….THEN I could truly start to heal.

My experience has also been that I must continue to feed this forgiveness because if I dwell on the past injury and pain, I can rip the scab off both the forgiveness and the pain, AND I can ferment the bitterness in my heart again! So in order to maintain my peace, maintain my joy, I must feed the good inside myself, and NOT feed the bitterness of soul!

Thank you for bringing this VERY IMPORTANT topic up! It is I think one of THE most important rungs on the ladder that leads to peace of mind and joy of spirit!


Being a woman of faith who recently married a sociopath “pastor”, I am really appreciating your posts here on Lovefraud! The marriage was ended when I filled for an annulment based on fraud. Long, sad, painful story similar to so many here…it still amazes me how unrepentant, diabolical and malicious a sociopath can be. My ex spath, like many others, is a very skilled liar, he lied about almost everything he ever told me and he continues his predatory ways online trying to dupe the next woman into a fake relationship on his blog, in the church, and on Twitter right now. I have forgiven both my parents for their extreme issues and my abusive alcoholic first husband. Now I am working very hard on forgiving my sociopath non-husband number 2. I have made some progress toward forgiving the ex spath but I think I am stuck in unforgiveness for the church leaders that believed him and didn’t believe me when I told him about who he really is and how abusive, crazy, and cruel he was to me behind closed doors. I was on church staff, I have a strong faith, I have a passion for helping people to realize how much God loves them and how that can help them overcome pain and heartaches of life. I loved my working in ministry. I have worked in Recovery Ministry, Singles, Children’s Ministry, Tech Booth Ministry, Women’s Ministry, Angel Tree, Food Ministry and Prison Ministry. Every time I felt like I could be the hands and feet of Jesus and simply love on people, I felt such joy. I am stuck in the fact that I saw so much dysfunction and bad motives in church leadership in the last four years of my church life I have not been able to go back to church. I have tried several, I feel unsafe in church. I realize it may be some kind of PTSD, but it breaks my heart. I strongly believe that God wants us to be in community with believers in order to have the fullness of life that he wants us to have. I go to a small Bible study with some rock-solid women friends, but I feel UNSAFE every time I try to go to church. I am praying for God to show me my path. I am not working at the church anymore but that is a good thing because the last church that I was involved with is very very sick. I am not sure if this is a un-forgiveness issue or PTSD or a little of both. I want very much to forgive them all and I am praying for God to help me with that because I don’t have the strength to do it on my own. I trust that God will show me where and when to go and I have felt God strongly supporting me through all the pain and chaos of the last few years.

Because I am not working right now I have been working on helping my dad clean and organize his house. After everything fell apart financially for me, I moved into a cabin next to my dad’s house. I am thankful to have a roof over my head, a warm soft bed, hot showers and food to eat…and oh yea INTERNET! When I moved in here I moved from a much bigger place and used the largest room here as a storage room for my stuff. Bear with me it is such a long complicated story…married the spath “pastor” a few months after moving in here. I had known him for 2 years and I thought he was a real Christian and I thought he loved me, I was GREATLY DECEIVED! Long story short, after 9 months the hellish non-marriage it all came to a head when I called the sheriff twice in two days. First call was because of his extreme spiritual, psychological, physical and financial abuse of me and the second call was because I had him served with a restraining order the next day and that day while I was at work he trashed our house, ripped the mini blinds off a window, broke the heads off of my figurines of women that I had collected, robbed me of my most valuable or loved possessions (that I owned long before I met him and earned with my hard earned money) and locked me out of our house. I had come into the painful reality that he was lying about almost everything and just using me as a meal ticket while he tried to suck the life out of me and abuse me into submission to him. One of the many things that disappeared that day was a stained glass window that I had made long before I had met the spath. Later in counseling, more than once (yep I got sucked in again by his fake apologies and love bombing) he denied taking the stained glass window and said he knew nothing about it. So I was wrestling with forgiving him and trying very hard to do the right thing while I knew he was still lying to me. IT FELT LIKE THE TWILIGHT ZONE! It felt like a nightmare that I couldn’t escape from. He just sat there and lied and lied and lied to various pastors and counselors, lied right to their face without the slightest bit of conscience! So evil! So…back to my point… I had this storage room full of stuff from the move and I decided to make it into a living space and clean up and weed through all my stuff. It felt really good to purge my home of any and all reminders of the evil man that had broken my heart. Well guess what I found in the storage room tucked behind a dresser…yep, the stained glass window that I had made so many years ago. When I first saw it I was thrilled because I it had sentimental value to me. When I pulled it out from behind the dresser I discovered that he had intentionally and with tremendous malice had shattered it. After all these months of no contact and healing I felt a wave of pain begin to rise up in me. The years of lying, abuse and cruelty were crying out for some shred of justice! For the millionth time WHY WHY WHY would he be so cruel, but God quickly intervened and reframed my thinking. Thank you Jesus! God opened my eyes to how hugely impotent he the spath truly is in every meaning of the word! Yes, this object had sentimental value to me and it hurt that he lied about it and so many other much more important things and he destroyed it and hid it away for me to find later on, but the spath was trying to destroy me, he was trying to do me great harm and this is the best he can do, how pathetic, how impotent he truly is. God simply took away the pain of my ex spath’s evil intentions and used the very thing that the spath meant for evil to show me on a very deep level the reality of who my ex really is. It was very healing! I will make a new stained glass window and this one will be better than the one before! It is just a thing, a replaceable thing. The damage that sociopaths do to our souls is the most difficult to heal and overcome. It is the Love Fraud that hurts the most. I strongly believe all things can be forgiven because I have done it myself and I have seen other people heal and overcome their broken hearts.

Thank you To Donna and Travis and all the others here on Lovefraud for sharing your journey and helping us to understand what forgiveness really is because when we understand the truth about forgiveness we are making progress towards a better life, better relationships, healing and personal joy. Here’s to new beginnings and new life in the new year! ; )

Ox Drover

Dear Hosanna,

Yep, Jesus himself warned his followers that there would be “wolves in sheeps’ clothing” come into the flock, they would climb over the fence, not enter through the gate, they would tear and destroy the sheep…and that is what happens with these “false prophets” these predators who come into churches and destroy.

At the time Jesus was alive, the Pharisees and the Sadusees were the “wolves” in the Temple….they pretended to be HOLY and yet they were the ones who conspired to have Jesus crucified to shut him up from telling people and showing people what hypocrites they were!

So this kind of religious “leadership” has always been with us and always will be with us (not just Christians but in all religious and beliefs) and my own small congregation also turned on me, and the minister was later arrested for pedophilia! Yep, they are such hypocrites but you know, there will come a day of judgment when they will be parted from the “sheep” and they will receive JUDGMENT from an angry God I do believe.

We can rest assured that they will get what they deserve…we may not see them get it NOW but they WILL ultimately get what they deserve, so keep that in mind.

I know that forgiving them, getting the BITTERNESS out of your heart toward these terrible men and women is difficult, been there myself, got the tee shirt…but find you a small congregation, or a friend or two and worship at your home. “Where there are two or three gathered together in my name, I am there.” (paraphrased) so it doesn’t have to be a BIG “church” just a couple of people who love God and love each other.

God bless. (((hugs))

Ox Drover

Travis I had pounded into my head from my youth that “forgiveness” meant “restore trust” and it never made sense to me….and I always FAILED to be able to “forgive” becuase I couldn’t trust someone without any remorse no matter how hard I tried, they always failed me, and I failed to “forgive” to suit the egg donor…well, when I realized that forgiveness does NOT equal restoration of trust, or restoration of association. Then it was closer to being POSSIBLE TO DO.

Like Yoda says “there is no try, just do” and you can DO it. But when the task is IMPOSSIBLE to start with, there is nothing but try and fail. With a reasonable definition of “forgiveness” there is the ability to DO IT.


Please understand that I do not have any expectations of perfect people (regarding church leadership) because none of us are perfect. And it would be crazy to seek the “perfect” church, because they are composed of imperfect people. My experience was very personal and very painful. Even as bad as my experience was, we are all aware of much worse, it breaks my heart to think of the tremendous harm that wolves in the church have caused other people. The church is not God. The church is a body of people, not a building or a denomination. It isn’t a bad witness about God and His purposes, it is a bad witness regarding some sociopaths in the church. Sometimes people have a very hard time separating the two. It is especially destructive when the abuse comes from spiritual leaders. I have been admonished by Christian friends for speaking out about it. I wrestled with telling ANYONE because it is such a terrible witness, but God encouraged me to speak the truth about what was going on. Who knows…maybe God allowed this to expose him in the church, he has certainly been knocked down in the process. I don’t know, I may never know the whys of it all, I just need to let it go, all of it!! I agree Oxy, the bible is full of warning of false Christians in the church. I think for me it is just a matter of time, I trust that God will show me where to go in His time.

Real forgiveness is a beautiful thing! Here’s to only trusting the trustworthy!!

Thanks again for your insight! I am learning a lot and these lessons are not taught in college! ; )

Ox Drover

Hosanna, and Travis….the minister that I spoke about who “devalued” me, refused to believe me, etc. turned out himself to be a pedophile….arrested in July this past year! The thing, like Hosanna said, was that the church members and leaders wanted to “hush it up”—remind you of the Catholic church, and the Penn State Sports department etc.?????

I went to Dickie Chance’s court hearing, and in my opinion there should have been EVERY MEMBER of the church there, to witness that they did not want anything to do with such a pervert….instead, all I heard was how he had sent letters of apology to all the churches where he had preached….so they had to “forgive” him….forgive as in TRUST him [email protected] Excuse me while I PUKE!!!!! Pretend it never happened.

Well, you know after Saul/Paul quit stoning Christians and became not only a Christian but an Apostle, many of the early church did not Trust him….after all he had been a party to the stoning of Stephen, so it took TIME and SEEING how Paul behaved before the Christians started to trust him….to SEE that he COULD be trusted and was not a “spy” to find them so they too could be stoned.

People DO on OCCASION change their ways, but as Paul said, he never violated his conscience. When he was stoning Christians he thought he was doing right, but when he was SHOWN and convinced he was wrong, he repented and CHANGED his ways…..CONSCIENCE….that was the key. He had a conscience. He had a sense of right and wrong.

The psychopaths, the wolves in sheep’s clothing, don’t have a conscience, no sense of doing right or wrong, but are willing to do whatever it takes to fulfill their own evil desires for power, control, money, sex, or whatever rings their chimes.

The CHANGING of behavior on a CONSISTENT basis is what ultimately tells the tale of someone who has truly repented.

No Hosanna, I don’t expect a church or any other group of people to be perfect either, but I DO expect them to have a conscience both individually and as a group and to adhere to a moral compass pointed toward truth and JUSTICE. The “dogma” of having to “forgive” (meaning instantly trust) anyone who says “sorry” is not something I think is backed up by either good sense or scripture.


My ex is a pedophile, I think they seek out churches to establish trust. My ex is 54 years old and every church he goes to he weasels his way into working with the “young people”. He is doing it right now at a different church. One of the ladies at the courthouse that was familiar with my struggles with him told me it is only a matter of time before his next victim will come looking for me and all the stuff I told church leadership that was ignored so they can use it as evidence against him. But here’s the thing, there was already a long trail of evidence that should have kept him out of church leadership…they ignored it. Because he appeals to idols of their hearts, he love bombs the ministry or church giving them the credit for loving and accepting him like no other “so called christians” had done before. And we Christians are all over a good testimony- a changed life…We Love to see people come to life in Christ! Yep, we do! And that is a good thing! But here is the thing, sometimes in our emotional response to a good testimony we and/or a changed life we are being duped, being conned! Sometimes it is someone looking for a position of trust to perpetrate the unthinkable. Sometimes it is a sociopath actively love bombing the church. What will it take? The issue of pedophiles in the church is so emotionally charged that a few church’s leadership tries to act like it isn’t happening no matter what. For heaven’s sake there is something between hiding it and forming a lynch mob!! Either extreme is wrong! And in the meantime they keep on using and abusing more victims! Get real people, yes it is a very difficult issue, it’s our job to deal with it with accountability, truth, love, mercy and grace. I’m preaching to myself… It isn’t loving to not protect potential victims from abuse. Ramp-up church! We have to protect our children! Sorry I’m venting! ; )

“I DO expect them to have a conscience both individually and as a group and to adhere to a moral compass pointed toward truth and JUSTICE. The ‘dogma’ of having to ‘forgive’ (meaning instantly trust) anyone who says ‘sorry’ is not something I think is backed up by either good sense or scripture.” AMEN that sista!! AMEN that! My ex says “I’m sorry” all the time, IT DOESN’T MEAN ANYTHING!

Ox Drover


That “cover it up” mentality and that “forgiveness means pretend it didn’t happen” all conspire to work together to allow the pedophiles and the hypocrites to work together to fool the “sheeple” the ones who are so easily led that they would follow one of these creeps over a cliff into the sea. It also makes me quite angry, Hosanna!

Like Aussie girl, ErinBrock, and others, I’m standing up and speaking out! Let the “embarrassed ones who want to keep their mouths shut pretend it didn’t happen, cover it up….but I will not be a party to that any more! I’m done.

Jesus stood up and CONFRONTED the hypocrites and I think that is what He wants us to do as well…He said that he who does not sow, scatters, and you are for Him or against him, but if you are lukewarm (neither hot nor cold) He will spew you out of His mouth! We must take a stand, if we sit on the fence, ride the rail, we are partakers in the evil that others do.

I think the story of the “Good Samaritan” is a good example of what many people do, and that is the “good and the holy” simply walk by the injured man. They didn’t kick him, just IGNORED HIM. Or the “rich man” who had the beggar outside his door, and when they both died, the rich man went to hell and the beggar went to Abraham’s bossom and the rich man hadn’t hurt the beggar, he hadn’t kicked him, just ignored his want, his hunger, his needs. If we ignore, or fail to help others, or fail to do what we know is right, then we are also guilty.

I can’t take in every homeless child in the world, I can’t feed every hungry person, I can however, do what I can do….and I can CARE! That is one of the reasons I get so VERY angry at people like the Penn State folks who KNEW AND DID NOTHING. The wife of Coach Fine, who KNEW and did nothing. The members of the little country church where this creep preached, all the while being a pedophile, and then when they found out, they wanted to “hush it up” instead of standing up and DENOUNCING him….hush it up, SHHHHHHHH, don’t talk about it, let’s pretend it never happened. I’m venting too! LOL


Happy New Year everyone! just went I was settling down, moving on… it has been almost 4 months of NC and he has a 3 year restraining order yey!. Today as I was getting ready to apply for a new job, I googled my name and was shocked to see what came up… My ex has posted nude pictures of me… for the whole world to see, I am beyond myself, I cannot believe he has done this. What now? I plan to goito the PD tomorrow morning to speak to the detective that helped me in the past. The pictures were posted on Dec 8th.

Ox Drover

Dear Alina,

Well, sugar you can put it down to “that’s what they do!” And so I guess going to the cops is the best thing…were they posted before or after the restraining order went up? Maybe he can go to jail for it. We can hope can’t we!

I’m sorry that you had this happen to you, and I’m glad that you have been NC for 4 months…actually the nude pictures prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is a Psychopath in my book! (head shaking here) I really am sorry this happened, but is par for the course, SOP, standard operating procedure for the Ps. (((hugs)))


Yes, pictures were posted after the order went. I will find out what can be done. Once I notify the police, I will contact google to see if they can remove the pictures.


I’m so sorry that happened. Thank you for posting though. This might very well be a red flag. When someone wants pictures of you in the nude, you might be dealing with a spath. They like using anything they can to compromise our reputations.


Just when I think I am doing so well with forgiving him (for my own healing) he does something else… what a sick SOB…


So sorry that is happening to you! My ex spath has posted many lies about me on his Twitter account and his blog and he posted a nonsexual video of me on youtube and Vimeo. I have a three year restraining order against him and when I called the sheriff they said there is nothing specifically on the restraining order that addresses video and if I wanted to pursue it I would need to petition the court to change the restraining order and I might get it. At the end of the day I decided that (in my case) it wasn’t worth having to go to court again and see ex spath again in court. He enjoys provoking responses in people, it will never end if I don’t ignore him. I think you might get lucky if you can find a police officer that takes abuse seriously. I hope you do. Again so sorry this has happened to you!

For the record my spath ex was often pressing me to give him nude pictures. I refused because I didn’t trust him with keeping them private. “Why do you need photos when I’m right here?” So it’s interesting that there does seem to be a pattern, another thing to watch out for. They are collecting stuff that they can use to hurt you later on!

the phoenix

Hosanna- As Oxy said, if you can find a few friends or other like minded people to worship in your own home or theirs, you can still nurture your relationship with God and the church. Even if youchoose to ‘go it alone’ for a while, there is peace to be found in your heart as you continue on your spiritual journey.

While my spath is not any type of clergy leader, he has expressed a keen interest in joining a church. He seeks ‘the sense of community’ a church and their congregation offers. We have been to and thru several in the past 3 years so far.

One was a small church which lost their building and merged with another. The one leader was changing things up and always after the money. The leader we followed to it, switched to another church and denomination altogether in his quest for money and his lust for the power of leadership. We went to another denomination with one of the mebers we met from the very first group. We have found a great group of people and a lovely service to attend, but still the spath wants ‘more’ from it. He doesn’t understand, you get out of it, what you put INTO it.

The whole time, I have been strong in my own faith and spirituality. Often taking time out of the day, no matter when, where or whatever- to talk to God on my own terms about my own things. Why not go strait to the source, right? My own road to forgiveness of him has been challenging to say the least.

For a while, I just couldn’t do it. So instead, I prayed FOR him as if he had an illness- which the spaths sort of do. They are sick minded individuals with no remorse for the things they do. Once I turned it over to God and said, “Here ya go babe! He’s all yours. I don’t know why I thought I could change him? You created him- so who better to fix him? If you want this marriage to work, you had better do something about it! And who better for the job?”

I started to feel a strange sense of release as I let it all go. I am not the one to be judged for his actions when that day comes. I am not the one responsible for his behavior. I will be judged for my own actions and that is something I can deal with. I can fix the mess I have created, change the things I have done or make ammends for them- but why should I be the one to go behind him and clean up his messes? Until he has to clean up the mess, his mess, he will not stop making them.

Hugs & Blessings to you and I will keep you in my prayers.


I do a Bible Study on Friday mornings, but there are many aspects of church that I miss sorely. I do have a group of friends doing a small home church group. I may go back there again. I do have a rich and deep faith and spend time daily in prayer and devotions, it is more important than anything else. My faith has given me strength and sustained me through the pain and chaos of a relationship with a spath. I have made progress toward forgiveness and letting it all go with God’s help. I trust God will show me my path, I just need to be patient. One of the more difficult thing to let go of is the fact that he is actively seeking his next victim. I need to let go of that to…it is so hard because I know it is only a matter of time before he hurts someone else like he hurt me, and his daughter’s mother and his daughter and any other girl or woman caught up in his web of deceit. I pray God’s best for him, because only God sees all things. I have learned that praying a simple prayer of “God’s best” for a person that has hurt me helps me get to a place of complete forgiveness. It is a process and it takes time. Somehow in the surrendering of my will and praying God’s best for the other person it is like medicine for my soul. Over time it heals the painful wounds and soothes the sting of injustice of malicious and unrepentant abuse from another person. Truth be told I think God’s best for him right now would be putting the sociopath back in prison for the his many crimes, just being honest, not especially proud of that. Until God heals my broken heart and helps me get to a place of peace and total forgiveness I need to give it all over to God, over and over and over again. I know from experience that is what has worked for me in the past. It is both very difficult and very rewarding at the same time. I really do hope he will change his ways because he does such harm to others the way he is now, but the more I know about sociopaths the more I understand that he probably will not change. I can’t comprehend how someone that has lost relationship with his family, girlfriends, wives, friends, children, and been in jail and prison as many times as he has would not be motivated to change. It makes no sense to me and that is why I have to let it go and give the whole big mess to God. And yes I agree, if he fools everyone with his lies and just keeps going on hurting, using and abusing people he will answer to God someday for his behavior. He may get away with murder in this world but there will be ultimate justice in the next.

I know that there are good churches out there, I will find one when the time is right. I think it is interesting that your spath wants to go to church for “the sense of community”. I saw how my spath ex works people against each other behind the scenes just for his entertainment. Sometimes he had an agenda like undermining me or someone in authority, but sometimes he just messed with people for sport. I came to understand that all people were just pawns in some kind of sick game that he was playing and his statements about love and faith and ministry were EMPTY LIES for the purpose of manipulation.

I pray for deliverance, healing, resources, support and forgiveness for all the victims of relationships with a sociopath! I pray that communities like Lovefraud will be a place of healing, learning, education to empower people to overcome the pain and move on in life.

Hugs and Blessing to you also! Thank you for your prayers, I will pray for you also!

Ox Drover

Phoenix, I agree with you praying FOR them…even if you do not mean it when you start….will help you let go of some of the bitterness against what they have done. I prayed for my egg donor and my offspring, and it was hard. I did NOT mean it when I said “please bless X and Y” but I knew God knew I didn’t mean it, and that I was doing because that is what I had been told to do, “Pray for those who persecute you” and I literally had to write the words on paper and READ them aloud in order to say them I was so angry and hurt…but it did help ME.

Holding on to the bitterness is like someone said, “drinking poison and hoping some one else will die.” It is TOXIC to us, not to them. It is also something that I have to WORK at CONTINUALLY.

When I got the note offering the “olive branch” from my X friend in the Christmas card, I started to answer his note and just tell him what I thought, and as I wrote to him I became angry all over again….just thinking about the things he had done to me. None serious (he isn’t a psychopath, just a jerk) but still it made me angry just going over them, and in fact, I remembered some I had actually forgotten about. That was when I realized I had “fed” the “bitterness monster” that lives inside of each of us, and even a little food will make it grow and devour us from the inside out. We must starve that bitterness monster….for our sakes, not for theirs. What we think about them, or how we feel is of little to no importance to them, but it is very important to us and our own health—mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually. To me it is a constant struggle to starve the “monster” that would devour my life and my soul! I won’t let the psychopaths or even the jerks ruin my peace, my happiness….my life.


It is so true!
It’s like the Cherokee story about the two wolves:
An old Grandfather said to his grandson, who came to him with anger at a friend who had done him an injustice, “Let me tell you a story.

I too, at times, have felt a great hate for those that have taken so much, with no sorrow for what they do.

But hate wears you down, and does not hurt your enemy. It is like taking poison and wishing your enemy would die. I have struggled with these feelings many times.” He continued, “It is as if there are two wolves inside me. One is good and does no harm. He lives in harmony with all around him, and does not take offense when no offense was intended. He will only fight when it is right to do so, and in the right way.

But the other wolf, ah! He is full of anger and bitterness. The littlest thing will set him into a fit of temper. He fights everyone, all the time, for no reason. He cannot think because his anger and hate are so great. It is helpless anger, for his anger will change nothing.

Sometimes, it is hard to live with these two wolves inside me, for both of them try to dominate my spirit.”

The boy looked intently into his Grandfather’s eyes and asked, “Which one wins, Grandfather?”

The Grandfather smiled and quietly said, “The one I feed.”

New Beginning

Hosanna, I wasn’t married to a spath pastor however it has been many years since I felt comfortable inside a church although I do consider myself to be spiritual. I used to work for a church that I didn’t belong to and when I was there alone I was bombarded by so much negative energy I could only stay there for short periods of time. Perhaps it was residual energy from spaths within the church and their dirty deeds.

It wasn’t until this past Christmas Eve when my ex MIL, who is also a spath, stopped over that I realized how many people with high P traits are so devoted to going to church every week – they are trying to redeem themselves! Finally I understood why I was leaving church with less positive energy than I entered with. Since that realization (which was before I took the job at a church) I’ve only been for baptisms, weddings, funerals and memorial masses. I can be in touch with my spirituality just by being in nature and breathing it all in. I was brought up Catholic, went to Catholic school……and knew many of the clergy who were later revealed as abusers.

Church is a wonderful community if people can find peace, love and healing there. It just doesn’t work for me anymore but that is due to my individual experiences.

As many others have stated, we will be judged for how we lived our life, not how many times we entered a specific building.


New Beginning

Hosanna, very wise words indeed from the Cherokee people.

New Beginning

Alina, so sorry for what you are going through. Many positive thoughts going out your way.



Hosanna, How touching and I will try not to feed the evil wolf!!


I am so sorry you have also experienced a toxic church. It truly breaks my heart when I hear about people being hurt by a church because it is the extreme opposite of what God intended. I agree, people are not “saved” by going into a particular building on a fairly regular basis. I am glad that you can experience God in nature, I do too! Personally I have been in a loving healthy church in the past and it was absolutely wonderful and I miss it very much. I have moved to a new area and I don’t know much about the churches here. I have lots of friends and family that are believers and we have rich fellowship often. I haven’t found a place yet were I can invest my heart but I trust that God will open a door for me when the time is right, or maybe not…maybe God will lead me someplace else…I don’t know and I am ok with that. I can have a deep, rich, personal, intimate relationship with God on my own and my church may be my family, friends, Bible study, working at the Homeless Shelter and the Food closet!

God bless you in the new year New!


YES! We need to feed the good wolf and starve the bad! ; )

New Beginning

Hosanna, I agree that there are many avenues in which we can fulfill our spirituality. Another door will open for you when the time is right, probably after you’ve had an opportunity to heal a little more.

Many blessings to you for the New Year. 🙂


New Beginning –

I wasn’t sure whether you saw that I had replied to a question you asked. If not, here’s the link –

New Beginning

aussiegirl, I did now – thank you for pointing me in the right direction!


Dear Hosanna: Our stories are very similar. I was a Pastors wife and Missionary. My first husband of 29 years ended up having a double-life and very abusive to me when I would “discover” things. I held our family and ministry together becasue I did not know what was going on…just knew something was not right. When discovered I divorced him but not until 3 years of trying to make it work with him. I let myself go so much that all I wanted out of the relationship was no more lies and no more abuse. Nothing for myself….

9 months later I met and married the most dangerous Spath. in 10 months through my Pastor/best friend (female) he conned her and through her “covering” and power turned every church member, friend and 3 daughters and husbands against me. I discovered teen porn and uncovered that he has done this to 3 other women… but they have stood by the spath side and will not even look at the evidence, the testimonies of the women who have reported him as a pedophile. Nothing. They have taken the stance that the “husbands” were justified through their perverted and manipulative schemes.
They have made me the abuser! To live through the abuse is one thing but TO BE TREATED AS THE ONE WHO ABUSED IS ANOTHER!! So, to this day I have not been in a church in 2 years. I read books and get “church” from the internet. When I go to my son’s BB games I watch as the first husband has all the church people and “our” friends and it is a really brain @#$%! because I did not live in deception, addictions or lies….I nearly killed myself to keep our family together while praying for him,loving him and his issues.,and I am the one siting alone and get the looks from the Church people?? Now the church has taken their stand against me,and want me to go before this Pastor and accept reponsibility for my part in all this. There was no part other than trying to uncover their hidden lives, They ( the Church) this Pastor did not give me ONE chance to speak. She/they made their judgement based on what the Spaths told them….. when I asked for a chance to speak they said not until I am ready to take responsibity. I refuse to put myself under this leadership to be abused by the church after being nearly killed by the Spath, so I guess I am excommunicated.

I walked into a diff. Church for Christmas…..but feel so out of place. I do not trust anyone, and puposely went to church where no one would know me. I have no “Christian” testimony left because if I wanted to join a new Church they would hear the lies of this Pastor and so how do i begin again? I want to be a apart of a body becUSE i have a love and call to street children in 3rd world countries…..but all that is gone now. I am really afraid of the Church and it’s power to abuse rather than love. This Pastor never had one day of training in Spaths,psychology, Cluster B personalities….. but has the power to take away my family and testimony based on her 3 years of online Pastoral Studies????

Thank God that the Lord is real, and is not found in a Church…. only but through a real relationship even in the wee hours of the night when I am totally alone.
Anyways …I know how you feel about the “Church”. But I knwo there ARE real Pastor and Chrisatians out there. It is just that Satan is out to destroy the Churches and Christains testimony. I do not want to be a part of that….just saying I understand.


remember that Jesus was a Jew and his “church” leaders had him crucified. Churches do stuff like that. Anywhere that power accumulates, there is corruption and anywhere that sheep congregate, there is a lack of responsibility and a need to scapegoat. It’s been that way since the dawn of the patriarchal hierarchy was established. Back then, though, they used an ACTUAL goat during the ceremony. Now we have a flour wafer – it just doesn’t seem to go as far in the re-enactment of the drama.

There’s only one way to deal with this primitive and infantile group hysteria: DO NOT PARTICIPATE. DO NOT FEED THE SPATHS. Once you see it for what it is, it’s easy to know when this evil mindset appears: You will notice an increase in DRAMA.

Our mission is to teach awareness of this disorder in all its different forms and to teach recognition of the redflags. First, though, we have to become aware, ourselves.


I cant take the direct or indirect abuse anymore… and no one seems to get it. I went to the police department yesterday to report the “nude” pics of me in the internet and they told me that he is NOT violating any laws and that since there isnt anyting explicitely stated in the restraining order they could not do anything… what about the fact that he retaliating against for having him arrested and getting a restraining order against his ass, what about the emotional and professional damage he is doing… I reported the pics to google and they were removed however, the are back again today.. I just cant take this anymore, its like the never ending roller coaster.

Ox Drover

Alina, the cops SHOULD do something about this….GET AN ATTORNEY for this one, do NOT take this lying down. I am so sorry you are going through this and the cops are being jerks about it.

Also, contact the district attorney of your county, if that doesn’t help, then contact the district attorney for your STATE….as well as an attorney. ((((Hugs)))


Dear bellaangel
I understand your pain! I literally started shaking reading your story! As I read about your experiences I cried, so similar, so PAINFUL, you suffered for so long! I am so sorry that you were treated that way! You are not alone, I truly feel your pain and struggle. I BELIEVE YOU, I BELIEVE EVERY LAST WORD AND I UNDERSTAND HOW DEVASTATING IT IS WHEN YOU ADD CHURCH DYNAMICS AND SPIRITUAL ABUSE to the mix!!! I am so PROUD of you for standing up for yourself and saying NO to the churches sick abusive way of handling the situation! GOOD FOR YOU! Jesus stood beside you all the while that you were trying to hold it together and do the right thing. You told the truth about what was going on and I admire your courage for it, that was the right thing to do, no matter what they did with the truth, you did the right thing. You DO still have a testimony, your testimony is keeping your faith even after all the abuse and cruelty and hypocrisy you experienced! Your testimony is alive and well! If we keep our faith and continue to love people and continue to tell the truth about our lives – the good – the bad – and the ugly, that IS our testimony. Nobody can take that away from us! To walk through that kind of fire and not become forever stuck in bitterness and unforgiveness, that’s a MIRACLE! You are a miracle and I admire your tenacity, commitment to the truth and courage! GOD IS REAL, and He wouldn’t set foot in a church like the one that treated you like that! Religious people killed Jesus! I don’t want anything to do with self righteous religious people! I hope you find trustworthy people to share your faith with!! I will pray for continued healing for you! God bless you, and the peace of God, which passes all understanding, will keep your heart and mind through Christ Jesus!


It isn’t fair, it isn’t right!! It is ridiculous that law enforcement not act on your behalf! I had the same experience! It is clearly abusive behavior that your ex did that! WHAT AN EVIL JERK! You can take it into the courthouse and request the judge add it to the restraining order. I hope it ends ASAP!


I just got a phone call from a single friend that just bumped into my ex spath on an internet dating site, he claims to be in ministry. Oh Lord help women to see through the lies!!!! They will have no idea that he is a pedophile sex offender with no intention of ever getting a real job, that he owes thousands in back taxes, $93,000 in school loans that he never paid for, back medical bills he never paid for, he did not mention his sex and porn addiction, multiple felonies, or the fact that he was asked to leave the last church he was working at, he has no driver’s license because of multiple drunk driving arrests and not paying child support, didn’t mention his last marriage was annulled based on fraud and that he has had multiple restraining orders filed against him for domestic violence or that he has committed bigamy, stabbed a guy 5 times in the chest in a bar fight, sold his first daughter for drug money…He is online looking for the next woman to abuse and use as his meal ticket!! God help her!

New Beginning

There are a lot of psychopaths on internet dating sites. Prime fodder for them looking for lonely people. Mine was on one for awhile too and his profile was filled with lies.


Yes the internet is a sociopaths best friend for duping people! It should be criminal to misrepresent yourself that way!


I do pray for my ex-path everyday… i pray that God will take him pronto out of this earth so that he stops hurting other people – then i trust that God is listening 🙂

No seriously, I have enjoyed reading this post and I can relate so much with some of you. My ex also claimed to have found Jesus and that he was a changed man, he played the Christian part well but was/is evil to me. Once he told me that no matter how hard he tried he could never feel what others felt. Duh, now I know why.


Hosanna…funny you should say that:
“It should be criminal to misrepresent yourself that way!”

THAT is exactly what I have heard MY x spath say about all his other women that went awry, when they caught on, too!!!

MAYBE it was because he was ON THE INTERNET?! Hm?
Gas lighting and love bombing is all they know about love. Period. DO NOT FEEL SORRY FOR THEM OR THEY WILL EAT YOU.
Dupey Doo Duh


Maybe regular people should boycott internet dating sites and let all the male and female spath’s hook up and they can work their evil on each other and leave the rest of us alone!!! LOL!

I have heard it said that there is a high percentage of spaths in prison, I bet there is an even higher percentage on internet dating sites. It gives them the perfect stage for their grooming and duping!



Can I say hosanna to that, Hosanna! Thanks to all the lovely people here I am NC now for the longest time and it’s weird but it’s…. Such a lovely place to be.

Internet dating sites are a definite no go area for me EVER again! I’ll just have to go to bingo n meet someone or what about those singles evenings they have at supermarkets?
I have never even seen one of those advertised! Ha what a match. I met him over the frozen pea counter!!


hahaha @ strongawoman: “We met over the frozen pea counter!” Probably more honesty and truth and bonding over peas.

Happy you are NC strongawoman, I am too.
It IS a lovely place to be.

Singles night at the supermarket?
Oh my, is that a custom there?


Hosanna: About internet dating sites….

Well, “I” certainly have boycotted them after this experience.
And, as far as I know, he IS hooking up with other spaths. All of the women he has spinned are still in the fold except for me and one ex wife. All the rest are still there in the ‘IT ARMY’ and act just like him. It amazes me how clouded a person becomes under their ‘spell’. Yes, a perfect thing: for them all to hook up together. Keep the gene pool lower. If you haven’t see it, do see Fishead-The Movie. You can search it on YouTube or on the worldwide web. Once you see it, you will understand my statement of keeping the gene pool lower.

Yes, I am starting to truly LOVE “MY” spath free life. After five non stop years of maximum adrenalin rush and all of the medical problems it has left me with, the peace and quiet took a long time getting used to. I am sooo ‘settled’ in where I can breathe and actually FUNCTION as a normal person now.

Anyone that would find that behavior acceptable has a problem. Truly. So, his ‘army’ has flaws too that are worth being concerned about. Charles Manson had an ‘army’ of women, did he not? I will just leave it at that.

NC “IS” a gift from the Heavens ~

You are in my thoughts and prayers.

Happy Weekend ~


I was having a conversation with a friend today over coffee and I was telling him that one of the things that I miss from church was the music. I LOVED the good times that we had and because I worked in the tech booth on the computer during the sermons and special events I was always hanging out with the musicians and singers…it was heavenly. The only places that I know of where you can hang out with friend and listen to live music is in a bar or church! After being married to an alcoholic for many years, I’m not fond of the whole bar thing. Isn’t there someplace in between church and a bar?? LOL! I need to find a place like Starbucks that has live music, that would be really nice!


((((Super Dupester))). Happy New Year. Happy Cleansed Colon! Happy Spath Free Eight Months. So many excuses to celebrate on this Saturday night
Strongwoman. Over the frozen peas…..beyond funny. Shalom


Well I must have got it from somewhere. Actually, My son in law has just informed me they do exist….his dads been on one.
Can you imagine? Ha! Oh well at least it’s face to face….. Some enchanted evening tra la la la la lah lah!

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