By Ox Drover
I was thinking about a blog post and reply that had gone on between another poster and myself on Lovefraud about trying to “help” others see the “light” and get away from their own personal psychopath.
I mulled over what I had done in my life in trying to “fix” others by coming up with a solution that they could take to ease their pain from their prior bad choices. I would wrack my brain up and down, left and right, to try to come up with a “plan” that would help these people “fix” whatever mess they got into of their own free will.
Some people would call this “co-dependent” and others would call this “enabling.” Whatever term you want to apply to it, I called it “helping,” but the bottom line is that this behavior on my part was not “helping” these people, it was me trying to take responsibility for the consequences of their bad choices or bad behavior.
Many times these people would say “That’s a good idea, but ”¦” and would not take my very best suggestion that I was sure would work. So, as a consequence, I would get frustrated at them or angry with them for being so stubborn or stupid! (How arrogant of me!)
Other times, they would take part of my wonderful solution and it would not work because they didn’t use all of it, and then they would get mad at me for giving them such bad advice. It was all my fault because it didn’t work and they were still hurting.
The point is, that they got into the fix in the first place, and it is not my responsibility to get them out. I am not “helping” them by trying to take over running their life. I can, if they are willing, support them by saying “Boy, you must be feeling bad/sad/mad about that situation.” That is validating their feelings and is a true statement and is supportive.
Suggestions on Lovefraud
Even here on Lovefraud when we give “advice” about what we would do or what idea we think would work, it should be on our part, a suggestion if asked, or noted as our opinion. We all must make our own choices, our own decisions, and live with the consequences. Lovefraud is a supportive place, and the people here are very validating because they too have lived through the chaos with a psychopath in one way or another.
Sometimes we have bloggers come here for advice and we freely give it, and those bloggers do not take our advice, they make excuses for their dysfunctional relationship with a presumably dysfunctional or psychopathic person and stay with or go back to that person, or in some cases, go into another dysfunctional relationship. Of course we are disappointed that that was their choice, but it was their choice. We have not failed when they do not take our advice. It is not our fault that they did not get away from the danger.
We can still feel empathy for these people, but we should not feel that we are failures because our compassion and/or advice was ignored. We can only do what we can do.
Can’t save the unwilling
Back “before enlightenment” I used to feel really badly if my advice was refused or didn’t work, but I think I have turned a corner in my compassionate nature and in my desire to assist or help someone in their recovery from entanglement in dysfunctional relationships. I no longer feel that it is my responsibility to “save” someone if they are not willing to give it all they have got as well.
To use an analogy of swimming, my late husband was a very experienced swimmer and a lifeguard certification instructor. He had a situation once where he had a victim trapped inside a turned over helicopter in the water. Every time he would swim down to try to rescue the man, the man was hysterical and kept trying to pull him under with him. My husband quickly saw the situation and went back to the surface until there were no more bubbles coming out from the water. Then he went back to get the unconscious man and brought him to the surface. If my husband had tried to rescue the man while he was still consciously fighting him, they would have both died. By waiting until it was safe to do so, my husband saved them both.
When we are trying to “save” someone who is floundering in the flood waters of a miserable and dysfunctional relationship and they are asking for help, yet fighting that help at the same time, sometimes we can only wait until they are no longer fighting the help we offer them. We must firmly set a boundary that “I will not allow your problems to drag me under as well.”
My late husband wanted to rescue that man, but he was not willing to let the man pull him under as well, and he set a boundary. “Until you stop fighting me, I am not going to come back.” What would my husband have felt if after he did pull up the man and the man could not be revived and he was dead? I don’t know, of course, for sure, but my bet, knowing my husband, is that he would not have spent the rest of his life grieving for not having rescued that man in time. He would have said, I think, “I did the best I could, but I couldn’t let him pull me under and drown me as well.”
I have tried unsuccessfully to rescue my psychopathic offspring and my enabling maternal DNA donor, and for years let them pull me under the “water” until I nearly drowned in the process. Every time I would “fail” to rescue them because they fought me tooth and nail, I felt guilty, I felt inadequate, I felt that I had failed, and threw myself right back into the water of despair. Now, I realize I can’t rescue them against their wills, and I am no longer willing to risk my own life to try to do so. I can’t help them, and they won’t allow me to rescue them. I no longer feel disappointed, sad, grief-stricken or inadequate because of that. They have the choice to swim if they want to, and I have the choice not to risk my life in a futile attempt to save them from themselves. The best part of it all now is, though, that I no longer castigate myself for “failing” to rescue them. I no longer feel guilty or inadequate for their choices. I can let them be responsible for themselves and I am responsible for myself. That is freedom; that is peace. We can only do what we can do.
Thanks Oxy- this writing from you just hit the spot! Like a sermon to my ears.
“I no longer feel guilty or inadequate for their choices. I can let them be responsible for themselves and I am responsible for myself. That is freedom; that is peace. We can only do what we can do”
That says it all, thanks for the post. Very timely, now trying to provide empathy, when others who you were trying to help, seem to think your only in it for yourself…now that is difficult.
Staying away from it shuld be our answer now. If and until they ever want us in their lives again.
I was taught in life saving in the sea or water, to never to approach a hysterical victim head first, I was actually taught to keep a distance and use a prop if available, and if none were to kick to knock out a hysterical drowning victim in order to save them… but that was the 80’s… I wish someone had knocked me out and saved me, I think it might have been the only way.
Not sure if i could have actually done that… maybe if our survival depended upon it…
Blueskies, I was taught the same thing (in the 50’s) to approach a hysterical victim from the back, never ever from the front. (I had lifeguard certification.) But, that was in open water, not sure if it would apply for a trapped victim in a helicopter underwater. Oxy’s husband probably did the only right thing.
I have a different opinion to Oxy’s about giving “help” to a DV victim. Most victims are not looking for help, but for validation. And not all DV victims had made bad choices. When someone (not just Oxy) came up with “plans” to help me, I felt as controlled as I had with my Ex. Besides, most of the plans others came up with were plans I had already tried and had already failed in the attempt. I always felt the other trying to “help” me thought I was pretty stupid. I also always felt that the one trying to help me with “plans” felt with others, “that I had made my own bed by my own bad choices, so live with it.”
The good thing I learned in instances like this was when I perceived the discomfort of others for my not “listening” to them, I fell into my own bad pattern (by nature) of “saving their feelings.” That was not my job! Trying to save my own EX’s feelings (I thought he had some! LOL) was one of my biggest faults.
Thanks for this article, Oxy!!
I’ll admit I still have big problems with always offering help. I can remember even in school, if I saw a kid not getting what the teacher was saying, I’d hop up to go help them, even though I knew I would get in trouble. It is bred in my bones. There is a fine line or often no line between “helping” and “controlling” except the motive behind it. Which to me is a huge difference. But I know alanon and others say not to give advice (I think I have that right). It is hard, because my job is about policing others!
I’m trying to change, and your feedback helps ANewLily, but man, this is a tough one for me!
ANEWLily, I have that same pattern of “saving their feelings”. It isn’t all bad. Graciousness is a wonderful diplomatic skill. Our GOOD traits get us in problems when used around bad guys, or when we hurt ourselves to save others. I’ve been guilty of doing both. (being gracious to bad guys and hurting myself in the process of of graciousness.) I even first practically apologized to a man attacking me, bursting in on me when I was in the shower, like “oh you poor dear, how embarrassing for YOU”! GOD!~!!! Then I woke up from the quick FOG I was in and starting attacking him physically!
But that graciousness thing is so automatic in me. Allowed me to do good undercover work, even my partner would say “You had ME believing you liked him!” But part of me just automatically DOES look for the good for someone even when I know they have done unspeakable things.
So I have it BAD! At least I recognize it and have gotten out of undercover work too.
JAH, Your statement, “Our GOOD traits get us in problems when used around bad guys.” was the basic thing I got out of Leedom and Brown’s, “Why Women Love Psychopaths” (Golly, is that the correct title?) What a solace that was to learn.
Then, there is still the fine line as you mentioned between helping and controlling. The trick as I see it is how to correctly perceive the motive behind “help.”
I truly believe that the motive behind Oxy’s and others who have tried to devise plans for me is genuine altruism. In those cases, is “trying to save their feelings” a dishonest reaction? I just don’t know.
Well alanon says “Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don’t say it meanly.”
Especially hard in email! Usually if I give someone advice when they just wanted validation, I can tell from the look on their face, and then I give them a hug, and say “I’m sorry, you just needed to be heard didn’t you? I DO hear you and you’ll sort this out on your own.”
But everyone on LF can’t see your face to know sometimes you (and others) just need to be heard! I guess just coming right and saying, thanks, but I just need validation right now, not advice, might work.
Of course then, I feel like I’m starting to control them!!! It is all very confusing!! LOL!
All I know is that the intent behind LF IS support! And NEVER blaming the victim.
And that people like me, full of empathy, have a very HARD time not giving advice. I did it here in this post.
ARGHHHHH!!!!
PS Forgot the main thing I was going to say! I think it is WONDERFUL that you have heard “help” as control. That means your radar is UP for being controlled and anyone is going to have a very hard time controlling you in the future. I think that is something to really celebrate!!!
When I was reading Betrayal Bond, it spoke about learning to set boundaries. And he said that it doesn’t matter if some of the boundaries we set at first are too strict, or too high. He says it matters not at all. What matter is that we are setting boundaries. That helped me get rid of the narcissiopath in my life. I set a boundary and didn’t worry if it was unreasonable or what. I just set it. He crossed it and boom! I never have spoken to him again and sent him a threatening email to never cross my path again. But I needed that permission from an expert to start setting boundaries.
Sounds like you have a great boundary set about being controlled! Woo hoo!!!