Geraldo Rivera provided his analysis of the ”¦ Natalee Holloway disappearance case. Prime suspect Joran Van Der Sloot has given a series of interviews proclaiming his total innocence. “The lie that he has fastened on,” Rivera pronounced, “is that he took her on the beach but didn’t have sex because he didn’t have a condom, then left her on the there. It’s at odds with the story he told earlier, but as he tells this story he becomes more confident and more glib. I believe there is a pathological aspect to this man.” The Factor concurred that Van Der Sloot seems psychologically unbalanced. “I can’t figure out why he wants do these interviews because he comes off as a sociopath. If he makes one slip-up he’s done. It looks to me like he’s a danger junkie – he likes this cat-and-mouse game, it’s exciting to him” (source)
Does it matter whether or not Joran van der Sloot is a sociopath/psychopath? Why not just be satisfied that he is a “criminal” and an evil person?
Yes, it does matter, because when dealing with a sociopath the usual rules of human interaction do not apply. Anyone who treats a sociopath as they would a non-disordered person is likely to get burned and to be implicated in the evil that sociopath does. Joran van der Sloot’s story illustrates this principle.
Joran’s father, Paulus, was an attorney many believed knew the truth about what happened to Natalie Halloway, the first young woman Joran was accused of murdering. Paulus strongly supported his son after the murder accusations first arose, and was even charged himself as an accessory after the fact, though the charges were dropped.
Paulus van der Sloot died of a sudden cardiac death last February and so did not live to see the result of his enabling of his son. Joran’s mother, Anita, is now alone to deal with the repercussions of the family’s enabling.
The lesson to be learned is that if you have a family member who has been charged with a serious crime, and that family member has psychopathic personality traits, or is diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder, DO NOT HELP THAT PERSON IN ANY WAY.
Over and over again, we have said on this website that sociopaths are able to do evil in a large part because they are enabled by family members and various governmental agencies- including the judicial system and law enforcement. Well, law enforcement does it again.
It turns out that the FBI wired Joran $25,000 as part of a “sting” operation, as they were trying to arrest him for shaking down Natalie Halloway’s parents. According to former agent Paul Lindsay, “the FBI formula for extortion stings is, “set ’em up, pay ’em off, get ’em to talk, never let them leave the room without handcuffs on.” Because the FBI did not understand the psychology of their suspect, they let him leave the room and were out smarted by a sociopath.
The lesson to be learned here is that next time the FBI wants to sting a sociopath they should contact Lovefraud so that Donna and I can tell them not to give a sociopath any money”¦ that is unless they want the sociopath to use the money to kill someone.
One more lesson to be learned from the van der Sloot case is that media psychiatrists should stop confusing people with their false categorical statements. I came across this analysis of van der Sloot by psychiatrist Keith Ablow (who I have criticized before):
“Serial killers whether organized or disorganized are always made, never born. Having interviewed dozens of killers myself, I can tell you that it turns out that evil never appears ”˜out of the womb’.”
Well, I knew Rodney Alcala, and I can tell you that he was born with a disposition to become a serial killer that was present in his early childhood. Serial killers are both born and made. Evil is in the genes of some people but like many other traits it needs the right soil to take root and blossom.
I saw video of the notorious Peru prison tonight on CNN Headline News.
Van Der Sloot is currently in a private cell, but they reported he will eventually be put in with the general population.
Apparently the inmates in the general population say that Van Der Sloot has nothing to fear…..and that he is “one of them”.
HMMM…..that sounds a little ominous to me.
I can see why Van Der Sloot is trying to cut a deal to get sent back to Aruba.
~On a sidebar….the Lakers just won the Championship…..Ron Artest….isn’t that the guy who started fighting in the bleachers with a fan who threw a beer at him a few years ago when he was playing with the Detroit Pistons???
Dear Behind blue eyes, I can’t remember where I read the left handed thing, but it was I imagine in some article that BloggerT posted here. He is the one who posts all the links and knows where they are. He has a MEMORY!!!! WHOOPIE!! Something I sure don’t have! LOL
I remember about the left handed thing because my P-son is primarily LEFT handed, he writes with his left hand, but he shoots a gun, bow and arrow, uses scissors, etc. RIGHT HANDED, so I guess he is ambi- rather than just left-handed. But, anyway, the Trojan Horse Psychopath he sent to our family is left handed, ADHD, and Bi-Polar and has a professional diagnosis of “anti-social personality disorder” as well as a 15 page rap sheet of convictinons including 3–count them, THREE!!!–different child molestation charges. (yea I know, I can’t believe this creep is on the street again!) I also remember about the ambidextrous children more likely to have problems than ones who were either lefties or right.
My older son is ADHD, very much so, but actually functions well in the working world, did well in school with a bit of special help of quiet environments etc. (his IQ is over the top so that helped) and I did put him on the Feingold diet for hyperactive kids, and with SOME kids it DOES help, but with others it doesn’t so there may be more than one thing involved with ADHD ADD etc. but it is somewhat genetic.
Another thing that is OFTEN found in psychopaths is HIGH IN RISK TAKING BEHAVIOR, they like excitement—mountain climbing, flying planes, fast cars, being cops, soldiers, robbers, cowboys, motor cycle riders, parachute Jumpers, etc. anything that gives them a “rush”—of course not all people who like adventure are psychopaths, but many psychopaths LIKE ADVENTURE (either positive or negative) and are ADDICTS–risky sex, risky drugs/drink, etc. etc.
So one of the things I “look for” as a red flag is someone who takes or likes to take UNNECESSARY RISKS. My son D is a rock climber, but HE TAKES NO UNNECESSARY RISKS. He is OCD about his harness, his holds, etc. and who he climbs with. He is a COPE instructor, etc. and is very safety conscious. Even my ADHD son is a NUT JOB about safey with guns and machinery, which I think is a GOOD thing.
@purpleandfluffy – I think he rather has a bipolar disorder which is probably caused by extensive use of cannabis and other drugs
Bipolar disorder is not caused by drug use as you can have bipolar without drug use. You might call it substance induced mood disorder or something along those lines though. Also it appears from what the media says that he did think about trying to dispose of her body by putting it into suitcases and then dumping into the ocean but he he changed his mind. Being organized or disorganized is not really all that relevant to whether or not he is psychopathic or not.
Also ADHD I would say is not “related” to psychopathy. Instead I would say that it has some symptoms that overlap but they are different.
As for what we can learn from this case. Well one thing I think it points out is that many/most criminals do not think about getting caught and punishment so all the people who talk about having horrific punishments can see that they are not a deterrent. Focusing on what happens AFTER people get hurt is the least effective approach. Preventive measures are the most effective.
Hey y’all,
I’m gonna just chime in here with my two cents, for what it’s worth. I think the DSMIVR is a categorical hodge-podge of nonsense when it comes to “Personality Disorders.” And, the “Practicians” who use the damned thing often don’t know what they’re doing.
I did a lot of research about Personality Disorders bc, well, I seemed to know so many of them! It’s a fine art trying to distinguish bt the various differences.
I think SP’s have no conscience. Period.
They say the causes of personality disorders is some trauma at a very early age, under 3. Duhhhh! Sexual abuse would qualify. Their personalities are not fully-developed. And, drugs and psychotherapy don’t help.
So, we are left with a bunch of P’s who take revenge on the world for what happened to them, supposedly.
They take what they want from whomever they want, bc that’s what somebody did to them. Maybe that’s why it runs in families.
Or, like Vander Sloot, and other sex offenders who kill, the theory is they are sex addicts (also abused themselves) who have to keep escalating their sexual acts until they murder somebody. There’s Ted Bundy, Wayne Gacy, etc.
Vander Sloot tried to rape her; she refused and he lost it and killed her. Isn’t that what happened?
A student of mine was murdered exactly in this way. Saying “no” to a psychopath is tantamount to violence. You’re not a person to them, but a thing that they are entitled to own. (bc of what was done to them?)
There’s a huge correlation between sexual predators and their own early victimization. It’s hard to believe that they were born as monsters. They probably have the disposition towards violence, but their environment has to matter too.
It would be too scary to think these monsters are just born this way, because it would be saying something about humanity that we can’t fix.. Psychologists like to think they can fix people.
fpt
p.s. ADHD has nothing to do with psychopathy. I am ADHD myself. It’s about inattentiveness and lack of focus. It’s not a personality disorder….
Psychopaths, on the other hand, are very calculated and focused. They just don’t have an ounce of humanity or empathy.
I guess I take exception to the comment that they’re somehow correlated…fpt
Well FPT to be fair that is like saying your family physician doesn’t know much about neurological disorders. You are making generalizations about a lot of people there. Like every profession some are good, some are so/so and some are awful. Specializing in personality disorders is helpful. And as your list of causes that “they” say is what some peopel might say but it is not the general consensus. For example the Mayo Clinic states:
Personality disorders are thought to be caused by a combination of these genetic and environmental influences. Some research suggests that you may have a genetic vulnerability to developing a personality disorder and that your life situation may trigger the actual development of a personality disorder.
Another thing is that you are wrong, very wrong, in that therapy does not help with personality disorders. Research has shown that in fact in often does help. There are a number of personality disorders and some, in general, respond better in treatment than others.
While some practioners may think they can “fix people” most subscribe to the view that they are helping people to help themselves and if the person does not want to improve then they will not.
FYI – correllation does not equal causation. Some SO’s have no history of sexual abuse at all and some do. The majority of sexually abused people never become abusers themselves.
It is easy to want to apply easy solutions/answers to why people behave the way they do. Sadly it is a complex thing and is different for each unique individual. If it was simply that sexual abuse created sexual abusers we would have a lot more than we do. There is a mix of genetics and environmental variables that come into play with every person and every situation AND these variables are dynamic and can change over time and situations.
I think instead of ADHD, it might be Conduct Disorder?
What do I know? I would love to hear the entire stories, esp. about the son who committed murder. You all know more about this than me. Was he a normal son?
fpt
FPT:) I get a bit touchy about the adhd thing too but I shouldnt… it’s wrapped up in my own worries about myself and my son ( I get touchy about autism, and depression being linked to p/s… because I worry that it looks to some like these other things are PROOF positive of the pathology being present.
Of course they’re not… I also dont like it when people suggest that ‘smoking cigarettes’ is a ‘sign’ ect. ect…. but I trust that most people can see that it takes a NUMBER of personality factors, the most important to ME are the PRESENCE or History of a lack of empathy, lack of conscience/ remorse and unkind, self serving INTENT… these could have stemmed from good/bad/family…good/bad upbringing…abusive non abusive…imo:) But I am a layman… still learningx
“Apparently the inmates in the general population say that Van Der Sloot has nothing to fear”..and that he is “one of them”.
HMMM”..that sounds a little ominous to me.”
Look up the lyrics to the Sublime song “Date Rape.”
I won’t take pity on him…
Dear FPT,
I suggest that you go back through the archives here and read some of the articles and research links on the personality disorders, “psychopathy” in particular. This has been pretty well laid out and there is also a link to the NEW AND IMPROVED DSM V on here where you can read the results of Dr. Leedom and Donna’s research on traits found in psychpathy. I think hopefully the pros are coming to some concensus on this. “Conduct disorder” is usually a term given to children who behave as psychopaths –before they are 18. Not all kids labeled “conduct disordered” though become personality disordered.
We are very fortunate here to have several medical and psychology professionals including Dr. Leedom, BloggerT, and so on as well as the “Steves” and plenty of people with EXPERIENCE with dealing with them. Psychlogy is still in a learning curve but it is growing as an objective science as well as subjective. Genetics and studies linking to genetics are showing that a great deal of mental disorders/illnesses are BOTH genetic and environmental. We can’t at this point change the genetics of a child, but we need to learn where and how and when to change the enviornment of the child for a better outcome. Since Dr. Leedom and many others on this site HAVE CHILDREN with a psychopath this is of VERY HIGH interest to them so that their own children do not grow up to be “just like his father” (which is the name of a book written by Dr. Leedom) In my own P-son’s case, he is “just like his grandfather” even though the two never met!
Dear Blueskies,
I am also Hyperactive, and one of my sons is hyperactive. I do NOT believe that ADHD CAUSES psychopathy, it is enough trouble in itself—same with BI-polar, I do not believe that it CAUSES psychopathy, but people with bi-polar can be treated with medication but it DOES cause behavioral and thinking problems if it is severe and mood fluctuations, and I don’t believe being LEFT HANDED causes psychopathy but it again sometimes GOES WITH psychopathy.
For example when you look at the eye folds of a “Mongoloid” child, you SEE the outward signs that this child has a specific problem, but the eye folds being different are NOT the cause, it just so happens that you see the two CONNECTED (more or less, some children have more of a pronounced look than others)
When I was in school and working in the newborn nursery we would have what was called a FLK (funny looking kid) come through. The child was ODD looking, in some way we couldn’t say exactly what (all newborns are pretty odd looking) but the nurses would notice the oddity and speak with the doctors about it. Most times there would be some defect in that child, usually along several pathways.
It might be the ears were set too low, or the hairline too close to the nose, etc. but the child would have a distinct “odd” look, which signaled the staff to search out what if anything was also NOT right with this child.
My P son actually was a FLK, and though at the time I was not medically trained I KNEW SOMETHING WAS OFF with him. It turned out he had his cranial sutures closed before birth (inherited) and he had surgery at age 5 months to open them up so his brain and skull could correctly grow. I picked it up that SOMETHING was wrong with him before the doctors did. ONE doctor was closely measuiring his head for growth but hadn’t fully figured out what was wrong since a couple of the sutures were open (out of 9) but I finally figured out something was wrong and found a doctor who upon seeing my son for the fisst time told me what was wrong immediately! It is RARE but he showed me photos of my sons doubles, the odd shaped head, the narrow forehead, etc. and explained it to me. This guy just happened to be the neurosurgeon who was called to opperate on Robert Kennedy a few years later. I went back to Kaiser medical providers LETTER IN HAND and said HERE IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY KID, NOW FIX IT! And they did.
So I have a special interest in “FLKs” and many can be fixed if caught in time, but on those that can’t be, the parents can at least be warned what they are up against with the child, not taking home a baby they think is perfect, only to find out later the child is severely MR or worse.