Geraldo Rivera provided his analysis of the ”¦ Natalee Holloway disappearance case. Prime suspect Joran Van Der Sloot has given a series of interviews proclaiming his total innocence. “The lie that he has fastened on,” Rivera pronounced, “is that he took her on the beach but didn’t have sex because he didn’t have a condom, then left her on the there. It’s at odds with the story he told earlier, but as he tells this story he becomes more confident and more glib. I believe there is a pathological aspect to this man.” The Factor concurred that Van Der Sloot seems psychologically unbalanced. “I can’t figure out why he wants do these interviews because he comes off as a sociopath. If he makes one slip-up he’s done. It looks to me like he’s a danger junkie – he likes this cat-and-mouse game, it’s exciting to him” (source)
Does it matter whether or not Joran van der Sloot is a sociopath/psychopath? Why not just be satisfied that he is a “criminal” and an evil person?
Yes, it does matter, because when dealing with a sociopath the usual rules of human interaction do not apply. Anyone who treats a sociopath as they would a non-disordered person is likely to get burned and to be implicated in the evil that sociopath does. Joran van der Sloot’s story illustrates this principle.
Joran’s father, Paulus, was an attorney many believed knew the truth about what happened to Natalie Halloway, the first young woman Joran was accused of murdering. Paulus strongly supported his son after the murder accusations first arose, and was even charged himself as an accessory after the fact, though the charges were dropped.
Paulus van der Sloot died of a sudden cardiac death last February and so did not live to see the result of his enabling of his son. Joran’s mother, Anita, is now alone to deal with the repercussions of the family’s enabling.
The lesson to be learned is that if you have a family member who has been charged with a serious crime, and that family member has psychopathic personality traits, or is diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder, DO NOT HELP THAT PERSON IN ANY WAY.
Over and over again, we have said on this website that sociopaths are able to do evil in a large part because they are enabled by family members and various governmental agencies- including the judicial system and law enforcement. Well, law enforcement does it again.
It turns out that the FBI wired Joran $25,000 as part of a “sting” operation, as they were trying to arrest him for shaking down Natalie Halloway’s parents. According to former agent Paul Lindsay, “the FBI formula for extortion stings is, “set ’em up, pay ’em off, get ’em to talk, never let them leave the room without handcuffs on.” Because the FBI did not understand the psychology of their suspect, they let him leave the room and were out smarted by a sociopath.
The lesson to be learned here is that next time the FBI wants to sting a sociopath they should contact Lovefraud so that Donna and I can tell them not to give a sociopath any money”¦ that is unless they want the sociopath to use the money to kill someone.
One more lesson to be learned from the van der Sloot case is that media psychiatrists should stop confusing people with their false categorical statements. I came across this analysis of van der Sloot by psychiatrist Keith Ablow (who I have criticized before):
“Serial killers whether organized or disorganized are always made, never born. Having interviewed dozens of killers myself, I can tell you that it turns out that evil never appears ”˜out of the womb’.”
Well, I knew Rodney Alcala, and I can tell you that he was born with a disposition to become a serial killer that was present in his early childhood. Serial killers are both born and made. Evil is in the genes of some people but like many other traits it needs the right soil to take root and blossom.
Dear Behind_blue,
I had PLENTY OF SELF IMPROVEMENT TO MAKE! LOL And there have been times I just wished I could blame it all on them, there are times I probably DID blame it all on them, but now that I am NOT in SO much pain, I am able to accept responsibility for my part in the whole dance.
When you are in a great deal of pain, however, the tendency is to LASH OUT at someone else for YOUR pain….even the hand that is extended to you to help you up may be BITTEN in your lashing out in pain. I know I have bitten those hands myself, and I have been the one extending the hand that GOT bitten, so it works both ways. IN the meantime, I try to be as compassionate as I can be to those who DO strike out.
Learning to distinguish between the “abuser posing as a victim,” and “victim in pain striking out” is an INTERESTING test of our learning PSYCHOPATHY 101
Last summer I took in a “psychopath posing as a victim” and it wasn’t long before I realized what she was. I had been wary (thank goodness) at the time I took her in (knowing first my own tendency to enable, and secondly that I didn’t know the full story, just her side of it) so I tried to keep a “clinical distance” and yet be empathetic to her plight.
At the end of about three months I think I asked her to leave here because she was NOT utilizing the opportunities I offered her to get back on her feet, she was instead settling in as a permanent house guest.
She was making a vallient effort to present herself as a victim. When I very nicely suggested that she should move on to some olace where she might have “more opportunity” for what she needed, she immediately started to tell me how I had ABUSED HER just “like everyone else in my life.”
I stood with my mouth ajar (catching several flies) as she writhed like a chicken with it’s head cut off telling me how I had abused and misused her and how pitiful she was. Fortunately, I observed this from a “clinical distance” but in almost SHOCK at how TEXT BOOK it all was.
I found out later though that she had actually “fooled” some fairly well known professionals in the field of psychopathy, not just me. I am actually quite proud of myself in catching on to what she was as quickly and as painlessly as I did. She is GOOD! She is smart, articulate and greedy, but she’s about run out of places and people to mooch off of.
Sort of like the story Jesus told of the “bad steward” in the Bible. He was too proud to beg and didn’t intend to dig, so he engaged in Fraud when his master turned him out of his position, so that at least his fraudulent buddies would give him a place to lay his head. LOL
All of the above sounds like myself….I always find myself trying to rescue someone and boy, does it ever bite you in the behind !! Does anyone on here know what thread the “uncle peter” was posting on? He was the victim of a S-path wife and I wanted to suggest a book for him to read…it’s called “Venus, The Dark Side” by Roy Shepperd. It is a great read for men. So many men are silent victims because of fear and shame. It really walks a man through how to recognize it for what it is, how to get to a place in your head where you can face what you have to do, and then it lays out a plan for you to get out of it…it also has examples of real life stories from men. I actually bought it for my own son in law, but cannot figure out a way to get it to him, without her knowing. She keeps him on a very short leash, and if she found out I gave him a book on how to get away from her, well, I don’t even want to think about what might happen….anyway could someone advise him on this…I cannot remember where I saw him…he was a new blogger. Thanks.
creampuff – he posted on this thread: When women are sociopaths/psychopaths
just put his screen name into the search box on the top of the left hand side of this page.
Creampuff: Take a ride down to your son-in-law’s work place and hand him the book while he’s there. As you hand it over, tell him that he can only read it during his lunch hours at work and absolutely, positively can NOT take the book out of the work place.
Smile.
Dear Creampuff I hate to contradict anyolne except Wini on here but she knows we agree to disagree on lots of things. I do not think that if you had the4 Virgin Mary herselff come down to speak to your son with 4 holy angels beside her that he would listen. All the books in the4 world are not going to wake him up to the fact that he is UNHAPPY, or that she is a MONSTER. He has to get his hands burned badly before he will keep them out of the fire.
I actually, even back when my egg donor was controlling me, I THOUGHT that we had this great mother/daughter friendhisp. I WAS IN DENIAL. I COULD NOT SEE THE TREES FOR THE FOR5EST.
I’ve been warned about Psychopaths being psychopathsw,l but I never listened, I was already hoodwinked. Maybe the day will come when he will be unhappy enough to talk to you, but with you being her “mother” I am not sure he would trust you enough to talk about it.
But what you might jdo sometime is sort of sneak in a conversation if he looks down or sad, say “Ron, are you and sue having probhlems? I know she can be a pill to live with, would you like to talk?” If he says yes, just listen, and build trust with him, Mayb e you can then say “You know, I’ve got this great book I think might help you with Sue” then give him the book. I think I’d look for an opening!
Oxy, you are right again. Other folks can see it because they aren’t in the relationship. The Spaths sink their hooks into their prey really early … and you know it’s a permanent hook … until they are ready to go after the next prey.
Mea Culpa.
OxDrover;
I have friend who is diagnosed bipolar but for many years I suspected he had other problems. He is certainly narcissistic but recently has displayed some overt sociopathic traits, such as guilt blaming and lashing out. He also seems to lack any ability to take ownership of his issues.
His was recently hospitalized (psych ward) for a manic episode. Upon his release, he refused to comply with his medicine regimen and began acting extremely toxic. He is now acting out sexually. Yesterday, he offered “share” some of his “conquests” with me. When I reminded him, as an example of getting your act together, that I am taking time to recover not only from my surgery but from everything that happened in the prior year, he became condescending.
Bipolar disorder is particularly difficult, but I have another friend who manages it quite well. The difference, I believe is that this friend is not sociopathic.
I believe that sociopaths can be particularly self-destructive because they lack guilt, which means they do not have the proper feedback mechanism to control their lives. For example, I admit to bouts of excessive drinking, but I always felt guilty about it; now, I don’t drink at all. Sociopath Jamie showed no guilty about his drinking — he was even proud about it.
My bipolar friend’s life is in shambles, yet his is proud about his sexual acting out. I truly believe that if his condition was just bipolar without sociopathic co-morbidity, he would be taking steps to better himself and control his disorder.
Dear Behind blue eyes,
I think your assessment is VERY good. I have severl friends who are VERY bi-polar and function VERY WELL because they are NOT ALSO Ps.
Sometimes the stupid things a person will do while manic may mimic a sociopathic trait (the grandiosity, can’t lose risk taking etc) but with treatment (medication, self learing and insight as well as therapy) they can get a good handle on “OOPS, I’m feeling manic I need to call my doc and adjust my medication.”
The problem with the ones who are ALSO personality disordered is that they LIKE THAT MANIC FEELING, so are usually not compliant with the medication.
Bi polar itself is difficut to diagnose, especially if the cycling is not extreme depression to extreme mania. Sometimes they will only present to the physician or health care provider if they are depressed so the provider doesn’t see the mania, or they are primarily depressed with a hypo-mania that is difficult to detect. That’s why I STRONGLY suggest that people with depression (or any thing else) see a MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONAL for diagnosis and prescription rather than a family doctor. After the medication regimine is established and you (the patient) are self educated enough, then your family doctor can write the Rxs unless you notice something changing.
I’ve been on the same drug (different amounts) for going on 6 years and in the winter time I have to bump it up a bit when I am not getting enough sunlight! But !) I’m a retired medical professional 2) I know myself 3) I did it for 4 yrs with my psychiatrist’s knowledge and approval. So I’m not worried about it at all. My moods are stable though I am NOT the same person I was before the aircraft crashed and burned, but I’m functional the vast majority of the time.
Sounds like you are taking good control of your life and life style. How is your cardiac rehab coming along, BTW?
As for your Sexually acting out “friend,” I have kicked that kind of creep out to the curbs of my life and moved on. I just don’t need anyone who is “acting out” at all. They do not bring anything into my life except aggrivation, and I’ve had my share of that! LOL
I read that Joran’s mum has given an interview to the Dutch paper Telegraaf in which she is saying that Joran has a mental health problem and this is since his father died, she describes her last conversation with Joran where he mentioned that “he was followed and watched”
http://www.islandcrisis.net/2010/06/joran-van-der-sloot-mom-interview/
I am still insisting that in Joran’s case his condition in my opinion is due to excessive use of drugs.m I remember reading that 60% of Earth’s population are potentially schizophrenic and one little wrong event can evoke this condition in them.To many this “wrong event” or crisis never happen but to a percentage of people it will happen.I also remember reading that overdoing in use of marijuana causes the same effect.
I am not sure why is that but in my life I often “meet” these kinds of people, where I on the beginning become fascinated by their unusual personality but as the time passes I start noticing their weaknesses, they often act as extremely intelligent, careless, dominant and positive and very popular when surrounded by crowd but when on their own they are often extremely depressed and only people very close to them know this. Their food for life is their extreme popularity and unusual achievements and there is no way they would show a weakness in public.
I was so interested in this kind of a personality I can write a doctor degree on it :))
But what I wanted to say, yes they are a bit unusual, often very selfish and look self confident but they do not go around killing people.
I think above is not a profile of a killer, abuser, user etc, yes.. they know how to use people and often these are the people closest to them. But they do not go around and kill them, they are more likely to make them financially bankrupt.
And I was also used by one of these, my life turned ups and down but I do not blame him, it’s me who should have been watching out more carefully. On the end of the day it should have been me who was the normal one hehe..
To me this Joran doesn’t fit into a profile of a killer and it is very strange that he as a drug addict and poker addict has killed this poor girl. And maybe another one.
In my opinion these types of addicts are usually not the killers.
But if his mother says he was talking about being followed and watched, that’s a different story.. imagine if he was developing a theory of being followed, watched etc in his head, then he caught the girl of googling him and she probably asked the questions then you see a potential reason for her murder. But who knows, maybe the mother is saying this just to get him out of trouble once more.. will be interesting to see how the story develops further.
And the poor girls families.. what one can do or say to condole them? Noting! Their loved ones are gone and there is nothing to bring them back.
purpleandfluffy – his ascertion that he was ‘followed and watched’, may be him bucking for a tag of schizophrenia (and therefore possible incarceration in a mental hospital) and not of sociopathy.
i have watched the tapes of him speaking and the tapes of him the night of the murder (staging that his gf was alive in his room). I get ppath from it all – not schizophrenia.
spaths/ ppaths can have very poor impulse control – so addiction is often a part of their lives.