It seems obvious that sociopaths make lousy parents and step parents. But the courts have not always seen it that way. One father trying to protect his daughter from a sociopathic mother was asked by a mental health professional, “So she’s a liar does that make her a bad mother?” Furthermore, the texbook I use to teach forensic psychology says that professionals who evaluate parents in custody disputes “should avoid diagnostic labels” and “accentate the postitives.”
There seems to be a lack of clarity as to what makes an adequate parent, a good parent and a bad parent. The court also does not recognize that the biologic children of sociopaths may have special developmental needs if they have inhereted genes that predispose them to sociopathy, addiction and ADHD. So why should evaluators avoid diagnostic labels and accentuate the positives, I really want to know.
I have come to the conclusion that the only people who are in the position to help change the system are adults whose parents and step parents are sociopaths. These adults know what it is like to grow up with a sociopath.
I spoke with a woman in her 30’s last night. She is just coming to the realization that her mother is a sociopath. She told me that for many years, she blamed herself. The woman said of her mother, “She was the queen of manipulation. She knew how to turn things around and make me feel like I did something wrong.” Sociopaths make psychological mince meat of the adults in their lives, how are children supposed to deal with them?
There is a recent news story out of the UK I would like you to consider. The story illustrates the fact that behind most every fraud there are children. The children are always affected even if they are not drawn in.
Mohammed Rashid is a garage owner in the UK who is accused of large scale insurance fraud. He allegedly faked accidents and filed bogus insurance claims.
According to an article in the Telegraph and Argus, ” Porsche-driving Rashid, known as Mojo, was appointed a state-registered accident claims manager, prosecutor Andrew Kershaw said. He operated from his body repair garage, Autotransform in Spearhead Way, Keighley.”
Mojo had a lady friend, “In the dock with Rashid is Sarah Lowther, 37, of Bradford Road, Keighley, described in court as his partner.” The most disturbing part of the story is that Sarah and Mojo are accused of drawing her three children into the scam. “Mr Kershaw has alleged that she allowed her three children to be schooled into telling a pack of lies about fictitious injuries to a doctor as part of the scam.”
Mojo’s fraud ring also involved other adults, four of whom have already pled guilty.
Now, I don’t know the degree of sociopathy present in Sarah and Mojo, however, the fact is that three children have been drawn into this mess.
I am collecting and documenting stories like this in order to help future parents involved in custody disputes. If you have information about the case of Mojo and Sarah or any other similar case please email me. If you are the adult child of a sociopath we want to hear your story. All information you give us is kept private.
If you are a mother or father whose choice of a sociopath as a step parent for your child was a mistake, forgive yourself. Work hard at healing so you can be the best parent you can be. You can regain the respect of your children and others if you acknowledge your mistakes and make a new life for yourself.
Stan said:…. I can not think of a better way to enmesh the children, alienate them and do them lifelong harm. You and PP both need to get some serious counseling to keep from doing more harm to more children.
There are less damaging ways to deal with an ex.”
My suggeston of the Mother seeking primary custody, with the Father having clearly defined visitation schedule is likely what will happen anyway, unless the Father agrees to terminate parental rights, since the courts do not operate on a he said/she said basis but want EVIDENCE in order to terminate parental rights. There are many good decent Fathers all over the country operating under court ordered visitation schedules, picking their children up and dropping them off as scheduled, and paying their child support as scheduled. My ex husband was one of them who followed the court order to a T, never missing scheduled visitations, and never ONCE missing a child support payment., not even when he was laid off from his job one time for 3 months due to an industry slow down. He got off his butt and beat the bushes picking up odd jobs to supplement his unemployment and he paid his child support on time to ensure his child had what she needed.
So, I suppose you must be referring to my suggestion of the Mother pretending the socio is causing her problems when he is a last minute no show to pick up the kids. Assuming the guy is a socio this could be effective, because they like to create problems for you, tend to want to do the opposite of what you want them to do. But even assuming he is not a socio, but just a jerk who just happens to like to embezzle money, not pay his child support and at present is failing to get his c children for half of the scheduled visitations by CHOICE, and he somehow manages to miraculously transform into a caring Father….well, at that point he is not going to miss half his scheduled visits, phoning at the last minute to cancel, anyhow, so my suggestion to the Mother would be a moot point if he shows up when he is supposed to show up. That option is up to him, not me cause I don’t even know the dude, so I certainly can’t influence his choice of behavior.
Certainly not having a Father around can be damaging to a child, but so can having a BAD Father around. Imagine the choas of being subjected to bags packed, waiting for Daddy to arrive, then him not showing up half the time. And since Daddy is already engaging in criminal behavior, showing irresponsibility and lack of concern for his childrens welfare by shirking his financial responsiblities and showing obvious lack of interest in spending time with them, what else will he end up subjecting these children to? iThe Mother says has a good job, but he already is NOT paying his child support by CHOICE, canceling half his visitations at the last minute by COICE, so where is his concern for his children, even concern for their basic welfare such as having food on the table and medical care which takes money to provide? I, too, would like to hear your suggestions for how to deal with the guy.
Per your therapy suggestion before I do further harm to children, although I appreciate your concern regarding my harming the children of the world, I am not a therapist who does court ordered parental evaluations, I am not an attorney, and I am not a Judge. I seriously doubt my opinion on a message board is gonna do great harm to the children of the world, nor it is going to affect the outcome of this particular case.
But this particular man and his CHOICE of actions will certainly affect whether his children are harmed or not.
Oh, BTW, OxD, I never answered your question about the status of my ex. I don’t know. After I faxed in the final sworn statements, I never heard from them again. And I never called them to find out. I don’t really want to know. (I’m thinking no news is bad news).
Dear Stargazer. I had much the same response from friends, people who really didnt understand what had gone on, on the inside. Once when I had changed my phone number and tried to go no contact with my mother, my mother rang one of my friends and the friend gave her my phone number. When I quizzed my friend as to why she had done that, she said, oh well she is your mother after all. I was cross, because she had put me back in the firing line. I was also neglected a fair amount as a child, left on my own for long periods and often ‘parked’ in front of the tv, I cant actually ever remember my mother playing with me or interacting on any meaningful basis, and with my father having left, I basically had no-one adult around to offer support. It has taken me a long time to accept that this was my reality and make the best of it, which is what I have done and has made the person that I am and I am very proud of what I have achieved against the odds and I am sure that is the same for you to. I understand what you mean about the feeling for a lost childhood and there are alot of children who have grown up with a less than ideal childhood, so we are not alone. God Bless.
Dear Star,
I typed a long answer to you and then it went off into cyberspace when I tried to post. Will see if I can remember enough of it to retype.
It was ONLY when I relized that my mother didn’t love me, that she had no more affection for me, and that her only “hold” was that she wanted control of me to do her bidding. She wanted me to be the “family enabler” when she was gone and in the meantime to do her bidding.
For too many years I paddled my canoe in “de river denial” thinking that we had a wonderful relationship—IN SPITE OF THE TRUTH WHICH I DENIED. Like that blog a wile back said, “the truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off” that is SO TRUE!
If all this chaos had not come up and she had not totally devalued and discarded me in favor of the Ps, I would have gone on thinking (in spite of the truth) that I was loved by her.
It took some grief work over coming to accept that truth. It is becoming much less painful with NC, TOTAL NC. I am not free to be ME and not overly concern myself with what the neighbors think, and not at all with what she thinks.
Lots of people will try to tell you that you must “honor your mother and father” (whether they deserve it or not) cause the Bible says so….but, what does HONOR MEAN?
Does it mean being a door mat for their abuse? Nope. Does it mean doing harmful and wrong things? Nope. I think now that “honoring” them means to become the kind of person that would BRING HONOR and pride to any parent. I AM THAT KIND OF PERSON. I am a good person, a smart person, a caring person, a giving person. I am competent in my profession, respected in my community and I have many talents and good qualities. So as far as I am concerned, I would bring honor to a parent. Therefore I AM HONORING my parents.
Many times people will try to invalidate your decision of NC like the “mother” is a given role. NOPE, mother or father is an EARNED TITLE not meerly a sperm or egg donor.
The “mother” or “father” of a child given up for adoption is the person who nurtures them. My step father nurtured me, he was my FATHER, not my sperm donor. My grandmother, for al her faults as an enabler of her P-son, was my “mother” because she nurtured me. She spent time with me, she sacrificed her own comforts for mine. She made me feel loved and approved of. My mother only made me feel unloved and second rate.
So if I had not finally gotten my canoe out of “de river denial” and my feet on rational ground, I could never have even approached true healing. Accepting these painful truths is painful, but liberating at the same time. They are like chains that bind down our spirits, and only when we break them off can we acheive true freedom and healing.
Oxy, I swear this is getting ridiculous. If I didn’t know better I’d swear we had the same mother! (And I’m an only child too.)
I could not free myself from the agony of the S/P experience until I broke free of my infantile need to be loved by a parent figure. And I absolutely had to break free of my need to be loved and accepted by a mother incapable of such things.
It was the late Kathy Krajco’s words that had a big impact on finally getting me out of the “river of denial.” She had a test for malignant narcissists vs. normal people (who might be inadvertently hurtful).
Tell the person who hurts you precisely how their words or actions sting, and ask them to stop, Kathy K. urged. Then wait and watch. A normal person will apologize and then stop the hurtful behavior. A malignant narcissist will continue the hurtful behavior, and perhaps even amp it up a bit.
Bingo! That was my mother. Here’s a little background story: my father was a violent, mean, murderous man. He made every day of my life from the time I have memory, until the day he finally died, living hell. I was one of those “parentalized” children who took on all the adult responsibilities of the household, and who took on the protector role toward my mother, rather than the other way around. I used to beg, literally cry and beg, my mother to leave him, run away, do something to free us from his reign of terror. She would not or could not, always saying how much she “loved” him.
Well anyway…fast forward a few years to one of my father’s violent episodes. We were in hiding at a my grandparents’ house and he had located us. He drove up and began to ram his truck into our unoccupied, parked car, over and over. My grandfather got a gun to threaten him off, but before he could take any action, my grandfather collapsed with a heart attack.
It was this episide which finally prompted my mother to divorce my father. In years to come, she would always describe it thusly “He finally hurt someone I loved, so I had to get out.”
I told her, more than once, how these words hurt me. “You are saying that all the times he hurt ME were nothing,” I tried to explain. “Please don’t tell this story in front of me. It is very painful.”
Well, you guessed it. Not only did she refuse to stop telling the story in front of me, each time she told it, it got more and more detailed. Her love for her father became more and more perfect. I became less and less of a presence. Really, I didn’t even exist in the story. After about the third retelling and my third attempt to ask her to stop, I finally gave up. Although my mother would feign innocence, feign forgetfulness when it came to my request, that mean little gleam in her eye when she so-carefully formed the words “He finally hurt someone I LOVED…” well, that said it all.
There’s nothing more dangerous than a psycho, but there is nothing that can hurt you like a narcissistic parent. It’s the death of thousand cuts. Unless you remove yourself from their house of razors, that is.
And Oxy, I also am living a P-free life now and I couldn’t be happier. It’s a new world once you finally learn to see them for what they are, huh?
Tood and OxD (and Beverly) I have actually argued with and lost a few friends over this fact. They feel that it is wrong of me not to have a relationship with my mother and take care of her in her old age. I do not believe we have any obligation to parents who abused us or neglected us, especially if they have not changed. As it were, I started my adult life with tons of debt caused by parental neglect. My parents never took me to a dentist, in spite of the fact that in a fit of rage my mother broke my front tooth when I was 7. I lived with the atrocity until I started working at 15 and could afford to have it fixed. I have spent thousands on dental work over the years taking care of dental issues that should have been dealt with when I was a kid. A few times I asked my mother for help with it. She always declined because she just bought a grand piano or a cadillac or something for herself. She doesn’t even remember breaking my tooth. I have also asked her for help with therapy, as part of her “amends” she wished to make one time. She got upset that I asked her.
My mother and biological father were both educated. My father was a lawyer, and my mother, a director of nurses. My stepfather was a chef. Though all gainfully employed, they never bought me decent clothing, helped with a car (I worked and bought it myself) or gave me a penny for college. I worked several jobs and took out the limit of student loans (for which I ended up filing bankruptcy). I pretty much raised myself. My stepfather used to manipulate me into taking my hard earned money out of savings and giving it to him.
My sister has such serious trust issues from all the abuse that she never bonded with me, which has pretty much removed any sense of biological family from my life.
The scars run really deep here, and honestly I don’t know if I will ever completely get over it. The hardest part is that I still feel like I struggle so much just to survive. The only time I ever was financially comfortable is when I was a stripper in my mid thirties. I considered that job as my “mother and father.” Ironically, it was the only time I could afford therapy, and I didn’t get it because I was not in a receptive state. I had to shut down emotionally and spiritually to do the job. I still have much resentment that this is what it took to have some semblance of financial stability as an adult. I look around and everyone I know has had some help somewhere along the line from their family, or at least didn’t start out with debt.
I know that deep down, I am still wanting someone to take care of me. This is what makes me vulnerable to a sociopath who promises to love and care for me. Any time a man has made that promise and then went back on it, it took another little chip out of my heart. Perhaps I need to be boinked with a much bigger skillet to get past this one. it’s a tough one.
Dear Tood,
I’m really not sure what my mom’s “diagnosis” is, but whatever her problems are “termed,” it doesn’t matter, as she is TOXIC, and that is al I need to know now.
The first time her mask dropped was after I had confronted the Trojan horse about borrowing money from her and she and he lying ot me about it. The next weekend she accused me of tryin gto “kill the goose that laid the golden egg” (the TH-P) and that he was going to leave because of me! (not his lying or her lying, but me confronting them about the lies) Then she accused me of “trying to steal her money” Later that day she “took the high road and called me crying to apologize and she finished by saying “I didn’t mean it, I JUST SAID IT TO HURT YOU” WHOA!!!! WAIT A MINUTE–YOU WANTED TO HURT ME? WANTED to hurt me? That hurt worse than what she had done. I had never before even realized she had the capacity to WANT TO HURT me.
She couldn’t understand why I was so upset about that. I can see why you would be upset about your monther’s statement. And I too have seen that gleem in her eye when she drove the knife in. I have also see the look that told me that I had NAILED her to the wall with some of her lies. I looked back and realized all the lies she had told me and then said “I never said that” and I would be gas lighted and think “well, maybe I heard wrong” or “well, maybe she forgot” or whatever excuse I could come up with, ANYTHING except to believe she was a malicious bald faced liar.
When I finally saw the truth, caught her lie, proved her lie. She conveniently forgot whiy I didn’t “trust her”—-and even tried to deny the lies I had nailed her on until I suggested we call my son C for verification abouther lies, and then her comment was to say “Well, tell me you never lied to me!” as if that justified her lies. I answered “Yep, I did WHEN I WAS 15 YEARS OLD” (45 YEARS + BEFORE. LOL)
She looked at me with the malicous P-look, and said “You really hate me don’t you?” At that moment I truly did. I told her “yes, I do right this minute”
Haven’t talked to her since and won’t. It just isn’t worth the hassle of the chance of another emotional injury. I realize I am still raw, still healing, but I am making progress in that, and in other aspects of my healing. I’m not sure I will ever feel entirely “safe” that I won’t “back slide” into pain, but I do feel much more secure in my resolve, my feelings, and yes, I wish I had a “mother” that loved me, but my grandmother did and so that is what I had, and it is better than noting that is for sure.
I am no longer basing my self assessment on my mother’s opinon of me, or her opinon of what I should or should not do or think. I am looking at all the things I have accomplished in my life and I have a life to be proud of. I have succeeded in so many things, and been the kind of friend to people that few people have ever had. I have nothing to be “ashamed” of except being human and making some mistakes. Over all, my life has been a good one even with the mistakes I have made, and I have good friends, I had finally a good marriage with a good man, I have two good sons I am proud of. I hve been generous with my time and my money to help others, I have encouraged people and seldom done anything I am truly ashamed of. I’m not perfect by any means, but I no longer think I am a “failure” because I am NOT PERFECT. Most people who know me like me and respect me very much. Most people are impressed with me and my accomplishments, but not my mother. That hurt so badly there for a while, like emotional “labor pains” but now that acutely painful period of the grief is over and I am working on the acceptance part, and getting there. I can’t change the past, and the only control I have over the future is how I react to what is reality.
My sons and I sat down and we decided that if my son P dies in prison we will not claim the body. They can bury it there. I have also come to the conclusion that my sons can bury mother if they want, but I won’t participate or be there at the funeral. No sense in being a hypocrit at the wake or the burial. People can think what they want to about it. It is my decison, my choice. One woman asked me “well who else would she leave her money to?” I really dont’ care if she leaves it for a home for stray cats, though my guess is that as her parting shot she will leave it to my P son, but that’s okay, it’s her money, she and my step father earned it and she has the power to do with it whatever she wants. I don’t want it or need it. Her money wouldn’t buy me when she was alive and it sure isn’t going to buy me when she is dead. If she does leave it to me–she even told me the last time I saw her “well, I haven’t changed my will” like that was supposed to make a difference in how I saw her now. Well, it doesn’t, and if she does leave me her “pot of gold” I will use it for a worthy cause to benefit others. (like hiring an attorney to make sure my P-son never gets out of prison on parole.) I have everything I need, and I worked for it and I earned it with “the sweat of my brow” no one gave it to me, certainly not her. But even if I was living on the street in a tent and eating out of a dumpster, I wouldn’t buy myself a Whooper and a coke with it, I’d probably choke and expire on the spot! LOL
One thing I am proud of is that I have never been a mooch on anyone and anytime I ever borrowed a dime I paid it back with interest.
OX Drover
That’s absolutely dreadful, that your own mother and son can make you feel like that, my heart bleeds for you. And I count my blessings that my mother got rid of my father before we kids were really old enough to be effected by him.
Dear Shattered,
Thank you very much for your empathy, it was pretty traumatic, but you know I don’t think I would have ever healed if I hadn’t come to an understanding why I felt the way I did, I would never have know why I was so involved with and vulnerable to the psychopaths. My self concept was not adequate or realistic. My need to be approved and loved by my mother was never adequate and so there was a missing space in my development. I hope and think I have made a great deal of progress filling that void now. I think that all of us who have had “less than ideal” (a bit of an understatement there) parents end up in the end having to “reparent” ourselves. Itmay not be as good as having it done right the first time, but it is better than going on in pain and shame.
OxD
I hope I do not upset or offend you by asking this question, I certainly don’t want to, but you say you were vulnerable to P’s, which is perfectly understandable, and I know your husband has died, but may I ask was your husband a P, or did you understand the nature of P’s before you married, or were you fortunate enough to be blessed with a good one?