What a difficult question this is—exactly what defines the sociopath?
 Joseph Neuman Ph.D, psychopathy researcher, in an extensive interview (see link to this interview previously provided by Donna Anderson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmZgnCHweLM) addresses this and other questions about psychopaths.
Neuman’s research, if I understand him correctly (and I did not find him to be particularly clear in his explanations) yields a picture of the psychopath, surprisingly, not as primarily emotionally defective, but rather as emotionally defective secondary to certain forms of attentional problems.
Neuman makes some interesting and, to my mind, somewhat puzzling observations. For instance, and consistent with his basic premise, he actually suggests that psychopaths may be more inclined to genuinely assist someone they perceive to be in need than non-psychopaths. Did I hear that correctly? I think so.
Neuman also suggests that the psychopath’s capacity for this kind of humane response is unfortunately, or effectively, nullified (in others’ eyes) by his more antisocial, knucklehead behaviors. Did I hear this correctly, too? I think I did.
Neuman’s basic premise—again, if I understand him correctly—is that psychopaths aren’t so much fundamentally defective emotionally as much as their emotional capacities which, alas, may be much more normal than otherwise appreciated, are essentially obscured, effectively immobilized, by their over-attention, their over-focus on their particular, momentary interest(s).
So, to be clear, if I’m understanding Neuman, he’s suggesting that psychopaths (at least some, if not many) may indeed have normal emotions, perhaps even a normal range of emotions; the problem is that they don’t “attend” to their emotions because they aren’t “cueing” to the signals that should steer them to recognize, and be better regulated, by their emotions.
Neuman suggests that when psychopaths can be directed to focus on these cues and signals, his research shows that they can and do access a range of more normal emotions. This should and, Neuman says, does result in their coming under the better, and more appropriate, stewardship of their emotions (my italics, not his).
Now on one hand, Neuman says he’s not denying that an emotional deficit lies at the core of psychopathy. Yet it seems to me that this is exactly what he’s questioning! What he is saying in the interview, it seems to me, again and again, is that, at the heart of psychopathy is less an emotional deficit than a kind of attentional deficit, a signal-attuning deficit, the consequence of which is to detach the psychopath from connection to his underlying capacity to feel, and be better regulated in his behavior, by his emotions.
Now perhaps I’ve badly misinterpreted what I heard Neuman saying. I will leave that to other LoveFraud readers to weigh in.
Also, consistent with what I hear him saying throughout the interview, Neuman takes the rather radical stance that once a psychopath, not necessarily always, hopelessly, permanently a psychopath.
He suggests, rather, that if interventions can be developed that, for instance, can help psychopaths more effectively attune to the signals that will steer their attention to their healthier emotions, well then”¦NASA, we may have arrived at something of a cure, or palliative, for psychopathy.
He envisions interventions, if I understand him properly, that would effectively liberate the humanity within the psychopath, which is obscured, if not immobilized, by his attentional problems.
Because again, he is not saying that psychopaths necessarily lack emotions, or even a range of normal emotions; remember, he goes so far as to say that some psychopaths, including those with whom he’s worked, have shown evidence of an even greater (and genuine!) responsiveness to those in need than non-psychopaths. The problem, he stresses, is that psychopaths, by virtue of their overfocus on present, reward-driven interests, are basically disconnected from their emotions. At least this is what I understand him to be saying.
Neuman makes another interesting observation. Citing Hervey Cleckley, MD, he suggests that the psychopath may have an even weaker drive to acquire what he wants than the normal individual. The problem, he says, is that their “restraints” are even weaker than their “urges.” He describes this as a case of their “weaker urges breaking through even weaker restraints.”
Neuman also asserts that you can’t define psychopathy by behaviors and actions, including, he says, actions like “defrauding” people. I understand his general point—the idea that psychopathy’s essence may be more a reflection of a mentality than specific actions.
However, a pattern of certain actions, especially exploitive actions, can reflect, can reveal, the mind—and the disorder—behind it.
As I understand Neuman, let us say we have someone who is in the process of perpetrating a cold-blooded armed robbery—and not, say, the first he’s perpetrated. He’s prepared to bind, blindfold and shoot all potential witnesses to the crime. This way he can take what he came for and not get fingered, identified, in the act. Let us say he has done this before, remorselessly.
Neuman seems to suggest that, horrible as this act would be, it’s not necessarily indicative of a psychopath. Maybe he’s right.
But let’s say this individual is a Hare-diagnosed psychopath. Neuman also seems to be proposing the idea that the killer’s primary issue isn’t necessarily the absence, somewhere, of appropriate and potentially self-regulating emotion; rather, he’s so overfocused on taking care of the business at hand—robbing, and removing witnesses to the robbery—that he’s unable to attune to the kinds of signals that would lead him to recognize, and fall under the prosocial influence, of his more normal, humane emotions.
So that, if somehow, in the course of the perpetrating of his crime, you could somehow cue him to the signals that might lead him to recognize his more “humane” emotions, you might, theoretically, be able to short-circuit the robbery and coldblooded murdering of the witnesses!
Really? That’s an interesting concept, but it’s not one that strikes me as necessarily plausible. In general, as I listened to Neuman, I found that he depicted the psychopath specifically, and psychopathy in general, in terms that seemed to me much too benign; as if the psychopath, in Neuman’s view and based on his research, isn’t necessarily lacking in humanity as much as he’s lacking certain qualities that would enable his humanity to express itself in more visible, self-regulating, prosocial ways?
What was your take on the interview?
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is strictly for convenience’s sake and not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the behaviors and attitudes discussed.)
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“liberate the humanity within the psychopath”
*SIGH*
I don’t have time to watch and reflect upon the video right now. However, I will comment on the following:
“Neuman makes another interesting observation. Citing Hervey Cleckley, MD, he suggests that the psychopath may have an even weaker drive to acquire what he wants than the normal individual. The problem, he says, is that their “restraints” are even weaker than their “urges.” He describes this as a case of their weaker urges breaking through even weaker restraints.”
In one of my x-spath’s online profiles, he specifically states “if you describe yourself as focused, driven or motivated, then we probably won’t get along.” In another, he describes himself as being “very laid-back and chill.” While he does have a BS degree from a good university, he gave up a career-type job to become a flight attendant.
Why? The easy route to travel and boys, the only two things in which he seems genuinely interested.
One other comment regarding a “weaker drive.”
Other than travel and drinking and perhaps dance music, I don’t remember my x-spath mentioning any hobbies or interests.
For example, I am interested in many things. Not only travel, but theater and other arts, I go to museums and galleries, I am very much into bicycling both as an active participant and spectator, having gone to France 3 times to watch the Tour de France. I go to the gym and avidly follow football and hockey. I collect things. For example, my place is filled with vintage posters and other decorative arts…
Him, seemingly nothing but “boys, beers and a bit of fooling around.” That is a direct quote from another of his online profiles, under the heading “Hobbies.”
BBE
I’ve been meaning to say how much stronger you’ve been sounding in recent posts and that I’ve been reading all your replies to what I’ve been putting up. I was a little bit unsure at first as you had alot of venting and stuff which ‘triggered me’ about my own narcissistic traits.
I’ve relaxed a little bit and decided that you sound GREAT! Especially the Tour de France stuff (I have frenchie roots and am pleased on behalf of my mother country that you appreciate the majesty of the TdeF LOL haw de haw! You know how us frenchies are proud of our culture!)
My current b/f is a French cycling nutbag it’s very pleasing for the butt & thighs BTW. Blush Tee Hee. But somehow I think I should be weaning you off your whole ‘looks’ thing. I know that this is esp important amongst my gay male friends, but I’ve always kinda felt sad at this aspect of the ‘community’ as we can’t all be Sophia Loren or Brigitte Bardot or …..Brad Pitt? Robert Downey Jnr? Whatever…
I’m in the middle of buying lots of new art for my ‘apartment’ we say ‘flat’ in the UK. It’s lots of fun – but a bit daunting to choose what will express the inner me ‘tee hee’.
I think you should check out Brighton in the UK – where I used to live. We had PRIDE recently and it was quite an event! Brighton is the ‘San Francisco’ of the UK but not as glamorous frankly, a little bit seedy really, but very ‘open’ anyways.
Hope you’re doing as much better as you sound. I’ve been real impressed by you moving towards supporting all the newbies on the forum and really being a supportive member of the LF community -as well as your openess and honesty in relation to your own situation. V. generous towards Verity too when she was a bit triggered and freaked. You are really starting to sound like a totally great guy to me and I’m a suspicious MF!!!!!! Ha Ha Ha
Blessings
Delta 1
Another confusing article. I think I am over saturated with spathology…
paralyzed82 I just wrote something posted it and it never came up on that thread you are on so I hope you read it in this one…I assume it’s deleted? I don’t know…apologise if I’m repeating myself…so annoying I have to write it again!
Delta1 I agree with the Lauren Hill singing and music in the car and singing along. Music hits a place where words cannot get to! and it’s incredibly healing. Songs that REALLY helped me along the way at different times because they hit all the emotions that I went through from anger to tears…are:
Bad Romance- Lady Ga Ga
Bulletproof- LaRoux
Fergie- Big Girls Dont Cry
Bless this road- Mary Black (paralysed this one is for you, get the tissues out….)
Gallileo – Indigo Girls
Lift Me Up- Moby
Can people let me know of any songs that particularly helped you because I love the medium of music to heal by…thanks!! I will find them on You Tube…all the above are accessible on You Tube
Paralysed you are so brave to continue posting and feeling your feelings…if you can stay with it you will be actually travelling through the mess…if you are going through hell keep going and get a cool backing track to keep you company…and sing out loud…use your voice…it’s really good to get it OUT!! yay!
Neuman’s never been in love with a psychopath I take it? 🙂 If steering their attention toward nobler emotions would work, maybe it would have to be done by a brain transfusion….because there is hardly a one of us who has not tried to do that steering until we were blue in the face!
the only time the “my” P siad “stop, stop, stop” was when I said what if some guy had treated your daughter (she’s in her 20’s) the way you’ve treated me; and she came crying to you, saying “Daddy, he did ___ and then he___ and then he___”, would you tell her that’s okay honey, that’s an okay way for a man to treat you???
But nothing changed after that. Nothing. And I wouldn’t fall over in shock to find out HE did those things to his daughter! Or his sister! Who knows why it seemed to get to him.
All I know is that talking, explaining, clarifying, connecting, all that does NO GOOD.
If something an “expert” says doesn’t ring true with the majority of victims of psychopaths, then I think that expert is off.
In my mind at least, it’s the emotional deficit that ALLOWS them to do what they do !!!
Even at our most selfish of times, most of us would not greedily take what we want without assessing the pain it may cause someone else – emotional , psychological or financial etc.
We are all susceptible to what I call “inappropriate thoughts ” or “misfires” at times – you the – the times we say “if only ” or “if I could get away with it.” It’s not just the getting caught or shame – it’s the impact our selfishness would have on others we know and love – or even a stranger.
My daughter and I are addicted to watching “Criminal Minds” on TV . It is the mind of the N /S /P that is so intriguing – at times it is a difficult show to watch . The acts perpetrated are beyond human conception – although someone has obviously thought of them or done them to even be a storyline.
Getting past the CRIME itself is difficult enough – but watching the team build the profile of the perpetrator – habits, demeanor, intelligence, level of Narcissim / S /P is mind-bending. To understand fully that a human can be so devoid of a even spec of emotion that allows them to do what they do – while sometimes possessing such a high level of intelligence and appearance – it’s hard to wrap your mind around it.
I find myself asking ” What is he thinking – what is his motive-what pleasure is he getting – how does he look at what he has done to another human being ?
Is he driven by urges – yes- obviously – but to me it’s the emptiness that allows his mind and soul to live with what he has done – and often gloat about it.
I have seen and felt this emptiness from my husband – – how could he have done these things to me and the kids – because there was nothing inside him to stop him – no heart, no soul, no deep feelings of love and care. And when asked – there is that blank look that says he doesn’t even get what I mean – HE DOESN”T FEEL OR CARE ABOUT THE PAIN HE CAUSES.
It is my heart , my love , my conscience that keeps me doing the right thing even when I don’t want or care to – can I be angry or mean – yes – we all can at times – but most of us could NEVER – EVER inflict on others what has been done to us .
Thanks , Steve – you keep us ever growing and evolving …….
Steve,
I really appreciate your article because these are such good questions to contemplate.
Haven’t had time to watch it though.
At first I thought, “he’s talking about schizoids”. They get very focused on what they are interested in and don’t bother with learning social skills.
But the true psychopath, DOES learn social skills and wears them well. He is a liar and an actor. His success is based on being able to deceive. True that he doesn’t understand how he the emotions should FEEL, but he knows how to represent them. So even a cold calculated bank robber/murder is not what I would call a psychopath.
My exP had MANY skills and interests and was very good at all of them. :Musician, helicopter pilot, welder, CAD, builder. But I realized that he aquired these skills when he saw others doing them and envied them. Then he used the skills in his cons.
As I continued reading it seems he’s just talking about children, or a person with a child like sense of morality/focus. In such a case, he is right, they are child like but what Neuman is not addressing is what happens when a person with a child like mind continues to REINFORCE, child-like thinking over many decades. Redirecting focus is not enough. One would have to have electrodes attached to the Psychopath and monitor his behavior and words, 24 hours a day and redirect him until the new behavior stuck.
My exP actually told me how he REINFORCES his hate toward me or anyone else that he wants to hurt. He focuses on it and he creates strife so that they will retaliate, which then reinforces his entitlement to hurt them back.
My thoughts are that even though Neuman describes childishness, it isn’t accurate because childishness is appropriate in a child’s plastic mind, but in an adult’s more set brain pattern, it’s pathology which can’t be easily redirected. But you can trick them!
on a slightly different subject, here’s an article on psychopaths in politics:
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/213382-Reflections-on-Political-Ponerology
My two cents – FWIW –
really, does it matter?
I am an alcoholic – recovered for 18 plus years.
It does not matter why I am an alcoholic.
It does not matter if it was nature or nurture-
ALL that matter is I don’t pick up a drink.
AND – knowing whether it was nature or nurture is NOT
what caused me to stop picking up the drink (still don’t know definitively why I was born this way – but I blacked out the first time I went drinking so I do suspect it is genetic but it took 11 years of “experimenting” and trying to control my drinking to finally hit bottom.
I was in so much pain and so much misery – a result of MY CHOICES – I finally tried not drinking. Suddenly a lot of other problems started to clear up as well when I quit boozing….
If you read “Why Does He Do That? Inside the minds of Angry Controlling Men” by Lundy Bancroft – you find out that one of the answers to why is clearly the benefit of behaving like that. Abusive controlling behavior has a pay off that few of those men are willing to give up. By being frightening and abusive they can cow others (primarily women) into being essentially slaves to their needs/desires/whims. Since the “pay off” for changing their behavior is taking responsibility for their own selves and they are to some degree lazy tyrants there is no great motivation to change – even jail doesn’t provide enough of a deterrent to create any significant change in them or in society overall.
So – based on all of that – the question of what motivates a sociopath or psychopath, in my opinion, is simply mental masturbation.
What matters is what they do and the effect it has on others.
Until there is a significant enough amount of suffering within the S/P/N that motivates change internally no amount of external admonishment or punishment (which is ALWAYS TO SOME DEGREE TEMPORARY unless it is life in prison) will change someone like that.
Essentially – I have no illusion that there is a solution other than to shun them, remove myself from their reach as much as possible…