By | February 15, 2009 79 Comments

Why I say “Bad Man”

By AlohaTraveler

It took me a long time to clearly define that what the Bad Man was doing to me was… bad. Plain and simple, it was bad for me. Never mind if he was working through pain, never mind if he had suffered many losses or had an unfortunate childhood. Never mind. He’s a grown man. He was treating me in a way that I can only define as very bad for me no matter what his issues were. Really, it was unacceptable but at the time, I did not have clear boundaries as to what kind of treatment I would accept for myself before I would draw a line in the sand and say, “No more!”

There were lots of excuses he made up and to be honest, there were lots of excuses I made up to try to explain his erratic behavior and his consistent emotional battering of me. Early on, I told myself, “He lost his ministry. He lost his marriage and his five children. He lost his boat. Who am I to judge him? I don’t know what that would be like.” I thought he was a person in a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain too and so I thought that our meeting was designed by God. I am embarrassed to admit that but I really did think this was some kind of divine meeting. We were the same astrological sign (yes, another excuse!) and we had had our hearts broken and had many losses in the years leading up to our divine meeting. So, I was very gentle with him while he emotionally battered and tortured me. I tried to understand where he was coming from. I looked for the “1 percent truth” in the terrible things he was saying about me because I was so open and willing to work on myself. I accepted that maybe I didn’t really see myself as I was, and so his “coaching,” no matter how cruelly it was administered, I took in.

But this is all beside the point. I wanted to explain why I say “Bad Man.” I am not trying to be cutesy here. I started saying “The Bad Man” before I found LoveFraud. I didn’t know exactly what was wrong with him but more than that, I didn’t want to hear his name pass through my lips ever again. His name was once something that stirred me and I said it lovingly, but I didn’t want to hear it anymore. One of my friends started calling him “Captain Whack-a-doo” and “Emotional Black Hole. ” “Captain” won’t fit for most of you but feel free to use the EBH if you like. Hehe.

Bad Man sticks for me because I don’t know for sure what he is. But I do know for sure that he was so bad to me and bad for me. I like this term now because so many of us want to solve the mystery. We want to know the exact diagnosis, but why? What difference will it make? If your Bad Man was like mine, you were being abused. Who wants to be abused for any reason? Not me. I don’t know for sure if Bad Man qualifies as a sociopath but I know for sure he is pathologically disordered and that’s enough for me. I understand this fully now.

Many LoveFraud readers have struggled with this question. There are also the readers who look for loop holes. What I would encourage you all to do is ask yourself this question, “Is this man/woman good for me?” I think we know the answer to that. Over the years, I have dated men that were not a good match for me. I have dated men that were not that good to me because, well, they just weren’t that into me! (Get the book by the way, it’s a great one.)

But only the Bad Man was truly bad for my spirit and my emotional well being. Whatever his problem is, he clearly was not good for me. When I was with him, I was hurting all the time. Or I was stressing, anxious, angry, emotionally battered, sleepless, etc. I argued with him in my head all the time, because I never won any arguments in person. I was exhausted from constantly defending my choice of words, my past, my present, my future, myself. ALL THE TIME! I was just so tired. That doesn’t sound very good, does it?

If you are struggling to find the right answer, I understand how powerful that drive is but what if you let it go by simply admitting this person was not good for me.

I am pretty satisfied with my diagnosis. The Bad Man was bad for me. I am not a psychiatrist. I will never get to administer the PCL-R (though I would love to hear the results). Even if I don’t know the final answer, I do know that he was not good for me and my life is so much better having let him go and moved on. It can be such a long climb out of that emotional black hole. I learned a lot from hitting that bottom but I never want to go there again.

It’s been over three and half years since I left the Bad Man. I feel peaceful knowing that nothing like that will ever happen to me again. Now, I can spot a disaster like him from a mile away. If I see one coming, I could fight him off with my eyes closed and one hand behind my back. Better yet, I would just turn my back and let him walk on by.

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“But this is all beside the point. I wanted to explain why I say “Bad Man.” I am not trying to be cutesy here. I started saying “The Bad Man” before I found LoveFraud.”

Really I think we all go through this stage when we don’t even want to say their name. Just doing so gives us pain and let’s us remember them the way we know them or thought we knew them. My children and I did the same. But out of thoughtfulness for other members here I won’t list those names. But in the end we are back to calling her by her Christian name only.

“We want to know the exact diagnosis, but why? What difference will it make? “

This too I believe is a passing interest and/or need but this too passes away for I now I am now at a place where I really just don’t care anymore what she is or isn’t. The way I see it is that it isn’t really my problem or concern anymore.

“It’s been over three and half years since I left the Bad Man.”

Thanks for your writing and yes sometimes it’s best to say (which my children and I have done many times concerning my ex s/p) that this person just wasn’t good for us and then just leave it at that! Oh By the way, it will be 3 years for my children and I this May 22, 2009! And each of those days I thank God for!!!


Aloha: You speak a powerful message, but . . . What about those of us who were with “the most wonderful man in the world” until he dropped the mask. I’ve been with those users and abusers, and I agree with your point. So many of us are nurturers and we will just keep on trying to nurture the “badness” out of “bad men” or “bad women.”

But then there’s this whole other level of sneaky that can be a different presentation of the same disorder. When the guy’s mask started to slip, the “abuse” was never something that was easy to call him on. Closing the door so he could make a business call didn’t quite qualify. Suddenly revealing that he’d “hired a team of programmers for only $8,000 a month, dear!” was so far away from even left field that it wasn’t even in the same solar system. (He didn’t have a job, played at being part of my business, and was a money-sink, while keeping up the facade of helping me and being tender and caring.)

I’m grateful that I found the books that gave me insight, and I gain a lot from reading and sharing in this community. But this past so-called relationship was unlike anything else I had ever experienced, and I wish I’d had clear-cut indicators of how “bad” he really was. He was in it for the “long con.” And he played me into the ground.

I believe some of us are here obsessing over diagnosis and psychological literature because we’re still trying to figure out how we could have been so fooled for so long.

I’m glad you are out of it, and I’m so glad you are well on your way to living well in this life.


Thank You Aloha Traveler,

I always find myself coming to Love Fraud when I am struggling with thoughts of wanting to contact my “BAD MAN”.
Of course I never right out say “I want to see him”, but for the last 9 months I realize that I have been searching for a excuse to go back to the town I “ESCAPED” from,. So when I found out that a 71 year old friend of mine was having surgery I momentarily felt as if I had the Ultimate excuse. I went on line to search out plane tickets and each time I put PHX into the TO spot, my stomach hurt, my heart started pounding and my mind felt like it was running around in a squirl trap. When it came time to decide if I wanted a rental car, I knew I was in trouble. My first thought was YES…if I had a rental car I could get one of those baseball caps with the fake pony tails so I could drive by “the house” . If I drive by the house I could see the kitty’s I had to leave behind. I would be able to tell if he really does have a new girlfriend and if she is living there. I could stop and see the neighbors and ask them questions. How SICK is that??? I then asked what I would do if he saw me. This is what sickened me the most; my first thought was that I would bow my head, walk up to him, nuzzle up to his chest, hug him and say I am sorry, I love you. I ESCAPED, LEFT EVERYTHING BEHIND AND DROVE 2000 miles so I could breathe with out having to remind myself to breathe. WHY WOULD I DO THAT??????


“But only the Bad Man was truly bad for my spirit and my emotional well being. Whatever his problem is, he clearly was not good for me. When I was with him, I was hurting all the time. Or I was stressing, anxious, angry, emotionally battered, sleepless, etc. I argued with him in my head all the time, because I never won any arguments in person. I was exhausted from constantly defending my choice of words, my past, my present, my future, myself. ALL THE TIME! I was just so tired”

How quickly I forgot.

I felt oh so similar to this:

“there were lots of excuses I made up to try to explain his erratic behavior and his consistent emotional battering of me. Early on, I told myself, “He lost his ministry. He lost his marriage and his five children. He lost his boat. Who am I to judge him? I don’t know what that would be like.” I thought he was a person in a lot of pain. I had a lot of pain too and so I thought that our meeting was designed by God. “I am embarrassed to admit that but I really did think this was some kind of divine meeting.”.

I felt “who am I to ABANDON HIM, even though it was he who had abandoned me.

I want to Thank you. I want to Thank everybody who has given me words of hope and encouragement in the past. I truly believe with all my heart that if I would have went back, I might never had made it back here. I would have lost my soul for good. I have no doubt that this site has saved many lives and even more souls.
Thank you for your share….Molly



You call yours the “Bad Man” I call mine “The Deceased”. I think one of the reasons we need to call them something besides their given names is to depersonalize and dehumanize them.

Doing so makes it easier for us to get angry at what they did and angry at them so we can begin healing.

Also, the tolerating their escalating abuse and rationalizing it away is so true. Thing is, everybody has issues. Everybody has pain. Everybody has a wounded child inside. Point is, we’re all adults and it’s our responsibility to take care of that wounded child, not inflict him on the public.

I think the old legal adage is true: “Your right to swing your fist, ends with the tip of my nose.” We all violated that legal principle by tolerating inexcusable behavior. By finally saying “NO MORE” we reasserted our rights.


Matt: “Depersonalize and dehumanize” is our small way of getting back at them for exactly that — what they did to us.

We cared. They didn’t. This is our way of demonstrating that we cease to care about them, and I think it’s a healthy step.


Aloha: I just haven’t gotten over all the lies, maybe he’s not a P, maybe just a liar, cheat and thief, but you are right, he’s not good for me, none of the men I’ve been with have been good for me, and the common denominator is …. me, the one who can’t draw a boundary… but thanks to articles like this I think I am getting better, I’m going to study them instead of the other way around. I get encouragement from your experience. I’m not going to look for an answer, you’re right there isn’t one. I’m just going to take care of myself. Thank you.


Really good article, and I use the word “dangerous” person myself to describe these bad people. Mine never displayed a few of the characteristic behaviors of a sociopath. For instance, he didn’t do the predatory stare. He also never tried to get any money from me. In fact he never let me touch my wallet. It doesn’t matter whether he is a card-carrying sociopath or not. He is a pathological liar and con artist. To me, that makes him very dangerous to any and all people he comes into contact with.


Dear Aloha Traveler,
Thank you so much for your post. I can relate to everything you stated in your well thought out post. I too had a “bad man” in my life. I did not know or could not see what he the”S” had done to me. I just knew my life with him was full of ups and downs. Mostly downs. I felt crazy at times. He was also an abusive alcoholic. You get sucked into their world. You believe their lies. You are trusting. They know that about you, they use it to their full advantage. Becasue we, as normal people don’t think like they do . We cant even begin to fathom their world. They prey on trusting, unselfish, loyal ,insecure people. My “S” was in my life for 28 years. It may sound crazy but I didnt know I was abused until one day my teenage son came up to me with a paper showing me the cycle of abuse. He said,”Mom, don’t you know that your are abused by Dad!” I was in denial, I guess. Always trying to make peace. I did’nt know how abusive the situation was until I got out of it. And now, it is really hard to think about all the things the “S” had done to me. He had no remorse. In fact he seemed to enjoy it when I was in the most pain, when he had me crying and running after him. He seemed to enjoy torturing me. It wasnt until I stumbled upon this wonderful site that I finally found out what kind to man I had been up against all this time. I thank God for this site. For all who post here. It has helped me heal , and find hope. I have been away from him for 3 years now. But the pain still fills my heart and I sometimes feel I will never,ever heal or be able to trust again. I am getting stronger little by little. Thank God for my children , and this site. I find it hard to post my story,its hard to relive it. I just want to forget. This site helps… Thank you all, and God bless. the one thing I do know is that what doesnt break you makes you stronger…


Please allow me to be indelicate… is one of my angry days. When I think of mine, I remember that he is an infantilist and masturbates in wet diapers!
As I write that, I give my head a shake and wonder what the heck I was thinking!
It’s now four months since NC and some days are an emotional roller coaster. I question why I let him abuse me as long as he did. Of course, it’s so insidious in the beginning that it takes a while to catch on. I know that, even six months from now, I will be feeling so much better. Summer is coming and sunshine is healing. It’s been a long, cold winter in Canada. Thanks so much for being here.


You know. I gave up a long time ago trying to figure out fetishes or kinks…they aren’t supposed to make sense. For the most part I’m a pretty understanding person – but not for someone who treats me like crap. Honestly, if all else was okay, I’d probably let more than a few kinks go by.
Mind you there are kinks that clearly have roots in issues and I suppose depending on how much of an effect it has on the quality of the relationship, those should be dealt with (were the diapers a part of his sexuality or the focus of it?).
Don’t be so hard on yourself.

My N made a remark about himself in Burgundy nails and fishnets one night when we first started dating.
I know that folks often let things out in an atmosphere of humor because it’s safer that way. I didn’t want to assume he was kidding – even though the thought of his skinny legs and flat butt in fishnets was not an appealing thought…I cared about him and wanted him to be happy. I went out the next day and bought him fishnets and nail polish and a card saying, “Just in case you weren’t kidding – and if you were, I can wear them.”
It turned out he had been kidding.
I’d have done just about anything to see it work, and see him happy – the stupid ass!
His boss’ wife – also a co-worker, told him when he told her about the gift, “If you hurt her I’ll kill you”…I’d so love to call her and say, “Permission to kill granted!” If only she knew…she liked me and the way I treated him.

Summer IS coming. What side of the country are you on?


Actually, infantilism isn’t a fetish. It’s a disorder. Infantilists, or adult babies, as they are known, retreat to infantile behaviour. They have adult size onesies, sleeper pyjamas, pacifiers, baby bottles, etc.. And yes, there are deep issues around it. I didn’t learn about this until a few months into the relationship. I really tried to be be open and accepting about it, and, had he not also been an abuser……well, who knows, who cares.
Sadly, the pangs of love for the person I thought he was still linger. I know he was a lie, but the fantasy returns that he will come running back, apologize and all will be well. A useless fantasy.

I’m grateful for this site. Putting things down is all part of the healing process….a process I am determined to complete!

I live in Ontario. Where are you?


Sunshine: I only read two of your posts … so I have no idea what your situation was with your Ex … but, I believe all our EXs are stunted at the age of their first imagined or actual experience of abuse (or reprimand). I say imagined abuse because there is the chance that their parent(s) was/were being a good loving parent … reprimanding them for a violation and at a young age. Instead of our Exs comprehending the reprimand for what it was suppose to be. Hence, their ego took off which prevented them from hearing, seeing, feeling or understanding the reprimand for being in their best interest for their development and growth. I am not excluding abusive parents from this scenario either.

Whatever the cause, I do see the stunted children in them.



Aloha Traveler, the “bad man”” was berry berry bad for me”.
I learned to “tolerate” differences to the detriment of myself. That was a revelation that I had in this long year of healing. It was a rude awakening and has become a mantra for me this 09. “I will not help others to the detriment of myself.” Like Rune says, my s relationship has been unlike anything that I have experienced in my entire life. How do you know? I did not know about sociopaths or bad men until my Counselor enlightened me in what I was dealing with and told me that I had made the right decision and to make no contact. I am a survivor and am glad to be on this side of the healing process but I too did not know that my S was wearing a mask. He was so loving and kind and caring. He was great to his family and his two grown kids. He was not physically abusive, he didn’t smoke or drink (a social drink). We never fought. I had the best year dating him and engaged to him. We were so connected. He knew what to say at the right time. He knew what I was feeling ,just like Matt said in one of his posts. It was cosmic. We were best friends and shared everything. So much laughter. We had so much fun together and got married in Jamaica Feb. 14th. Yes Valentines’ Day. He was living a second life that I did not know about. He was a Salesman and “made appointments”. A very flexible schedule. He was a member of “local hook-up” for sex, frequented strip clubs, had several other women (a 29 year old), financial problems with the IRS , credit cards, etc…out the wazooo!,numerous traffic violations, had some bad stuff “esponged” off his record, used up lots of money and took advantage of my kindness and intelligence. He did use my strengths against me. I gathered bits and pieces of the puzzle of his other life over the one year that I was married to him. Truth was revealed to me-an answer to prayer- right after my one year anniversary. I moved him out and the rest is history! I am lucky so far! I know that I am healing because I survived yesterday without a tear or emotional thought toward him. He is who he is and it has nothing to do with me or who I am.


I just remembered to mention this wonderful book that I bought myself for Valentines Day and everyday! How Not to Date a Loser (a guide to making smart choices) by Georgia Shaffer. It is about embracing being single and cultivating your inner life and how to choose well. Good read! Much Love to the Flock! Honk! Honk! Honk!

P.S. No I am not crazy the honking is in reference to an earlier post on Friday.



Last night I was invited to a “Non-Valentine’s Day Valentine’s Day Party”. It was hosted by a friend for everyone who had broken up, gotten divorced, etc in the past year and was currently unattached.

When I walked into the room I briefly thought “last year at this time I was escorting him into the restaurant.” Then I quickly remembered all the grief he caused me this past year.

I looked around the room and thought “we are all survivors.” We had a blast. And, like you I didn’t shed a tear over S.


I know the day will come that I no longer care and that is what keeps me moving forward.


Matt, You are a Survivor!- you are right- We all are. It sounds like you had a blast! What a wonderful way to celebrate the day! I am very happy for you that you didn’t waste good emotional tears on the S. You make me PROUD! 🙂


Sunshine, you will get there. Your name is indicative of that. It is eating the elephant one bite at a time,so to speak. It is a process but it does get better as difficult as it is to believe. I was like the cowardly lion twisting my tail and reciting nervously every day, “i do believe, i do believe, i do believe”. Until one day, I said, “Hey, I DO BELIEVE! and it was TRUE! Hang in there! Take care! Keep posting and purging through this- You will SHINE again!


Thanks for making a really good point. Who they are and what they do is less important than whether it’s good for us.

It was a big day in my recovery when I figured this one out. I’d been working through all kinds of other things — like whether he intended to hurt me or whether my feelings were just collateral damage on his rise to wealth, fame and power. And then I just got it. It didn’t matter.

What mattered was whether I was better off. Whether I was happier, stronger, had more resources for survival, whether I liked myself more, whether I felt better or worse. In every way, I was worse off, and in many ways, harmed in ways that would take time to get over.

This is the first and only time I thought about the meaning of evil. Because I decided that evil is a personal thing. That is, something is evil to me if it harms me. It might be that I’m allergic to penicillin. If it makes me sick, it’s evil for me.

And so, I experimented with “Bad Man.” I didn’t want to use that, because it felt too much like “boogie man” and I didn’t want to let him be that big and scary in my mind. I prefer to keep this guy small — a puny little emotional cripple who sucks off the lives of big people who are emotionally and ethically competent, because he’s unable to survive any other way. Which is how I came to my usual description of him as dangerous but pitiful.

But Bad Man certainly works, when I’m not feeling so understanding.



The party was great. Good food, good drink, great people. Oh, yes, and the Bette Davis horror film quartet was run “Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?”, “Hush, Hush Sweet Charlotte”, “The Nanny” and “Dead Ringer”. All most appropriate viewing for this particular party.

“Charlotte” was the clear winner on how we’d most like to remember our exes — “off with his hand and his head…”


Hi Everyone–
Tomorrow is a new day. That is what I am telling myself.

Donna– the article is so wonderful.

I think my brain goes round and round with “Was he bad?” or “WAs I bad?”– b/c when he discarded me– he said and yelled that it was me.

He even– as I have told you all before– made me get on ground– under his feet (He had never been physical before) and say it was my fault that we are over. There was so much emotion in his voice– how could it not be true that I was the bad one?
He was reacting to something that happened between us– so of course– my normal brain still believes him!!
It is all messed up. I have ended and have had relationships end before– even got divorced and my exhus never said I was bad or it was my fault. But with the N’s– it is so sudden and shocking and one sided and drama filled that one is left with their head spinning and the words of the N echoeing in their head–‘It was your fault Meg. I can’t trust you. YOU betrayed me! YOU MISSED THE BOAT. ”
Thanks for letting me vent–


Akitameg, here is a little test to see if the ex was bad or if you were bad. Are you here blogging on Lovefraud? Yes? Then HE was the bad person.

So do you know the song “Angel” by Sarah McLaughlin?



I like your idea of keeping your ex-S small. I still get mad at myself for the inordinate amount of space S takes up in my head — rent free.

I have to admit, a lot of my thoughts are of the “what the hell is S going to do me next?” variety and are generated by my instinct for self-preservation. Still, I’m looking forward to the day S is completely minimized in my mind and in the effect he has on my life.

Healing Heart

Hey Everybody – haven’t blogged in a while, but I’ve been reading and keeping up with every one else’s stories. For some reason I just haven’t had anything to say. Maybe that’s good. I didn’t have anything to say sad or mad about my ex S.

Though something about V-day brought the mad back, a bit. I’d like to write him a really nasty email or tell him off over the phone (don’t want to see him in person). But, mercifully, I have lost any lingering longing for him. Not sure why, but just “to see” I tried to conjure it up….and I came up with nothing. I tried to “remember” what it felt like to be so in love with him, and came up with a big blank. I remember that I was madly in love with him, but I can’t feel it anymore. And the sex – YUCK. All I have to do is think about all the random and nasty places he sought out sex, as well as the nasty warts and YUCK. Sorry if that was too graphic folks.

Matt – I posted a Go-Matt! note earlier this week when everyone else did saying how awesome you are and how valued you are….but don’t know if you saw it. Anyway, glad to learn you are partying and doing well!

SG – nice to read your terrific posts but so sorry you have been thrust back into PTSD. I had horrible PTSD first two weeks in January with intrusive thoughts, nightmares, EVERYTHING. And it was just awful. Thankfully it has passed.

Great to read everybody, and to see Aloha back and see some new (or perhaps return?) folk.

Xmas is gone, as is New Years, and AT LAST V-day has passed. WHEW. We’re good for a while….


Healing Heart:

Saw your post — thanks. I needed that. Been a tough week. Have been scrambling to get used to being a “civilian”. Have gotten a new mobile, high speed internet, etc. Just keep getting hit with waves of fatigue. Last night’s party was a nice diversion.

I agree — thank God that XMAS, New Years and V-Day are over. None of the others pack the punch those do. Also, by the time that every subsequent holiday came along, S managed to tank those with his bad behavior. I am sooooo looking forward to creating new memories on those holidays.


Nice to see you, HH. It’s heartwarming that you are keeping up with our stories, and probably a good sign that you haven’t had much to write about. Yes, we got through Xmas and VD. Next……… Mother’s Day. My mother is a narcissistic personality disorder whom I marginally correspond with. So that day is kind of tough for me. It’s worse than VD, which has no meaning for me.

You know, you don’t have to blog about only the sociopath here. This is a healing site and even unrelated things can be good to talk about. 🙂

Healing Heart

Hey guys – so nice to “see” you! Yes, even when I feel like I don’t have too much to say, I like to keep up with every one else because I am genuinely interested in you guys and your stories.

Do we all have narcissist mothers? Mother’s day is always weird – NONE of the hallmark cards, or humorous cards, fit my relationship with my mother. In fact, picking out a card was always a really sad process because I would realize that a lot of these cards really did accurately describe beautiful relationships with mothers – and they were completely foreign to me. If there was a “Happy Mother’s day to the woman who birthed me and then shamed me for 39 years” card, I would feel a little more connected.

Last V–day my ex S had sex with another woman. He “disappeared” for about 5 hours in the morning, and then was flat and listless with me later. A Valentines day alone is about a million times better than a valentine’s day on which your lover cheats on you and then later treats you with disdain. SHUDDER.

This Valentine’s day I spent with friends and went to bed early (after catching up on LF stories). I met this really cute artist/musician…..whom I will not date, but boy was it nice to feel some sparks. Thought I had lost the Mojo and left it somewhere in 2007.

I’m so glad we are all out. We are really lucky. All of our ex S’s are undoubtedly hurting other people really badly right now – but we got out.


Dear Rune,

You make a very good point. Those Bad Men/Women that are especially nice and dreamy are very hard to catch. I feel for you. BM looked good on the outside and seemed pretty good to a few people… but his co-workers started to detect his Narcissism.

I don’t know what it was like to be duped when all seemed well on the surfact until they suddenly are discovered. BM was revealing himself to me all along. I just didn’t understand what I was dealing with.

Based purely on your comment, I think your BM was truly a Sociopath. My BM was a Borderline/Narcissist. I don’t know if I have it right clinically speaking but my take is that the really tricky sly ones are the Sociopaths. Though some of those are abusive too. There are so many similiarities in the disorders. It’s hard to separate them into clean little profiles, isn’t it?

BTW, “obsessing” is just part of the healing process. For me, I reached a point of letting it go. But believe me, I did obsess a lot. I am not judging anyone who is stuck there.

I just hope my thoughts might help someone who is stuck in this part of the healing and perhaps they will feel a little release by just accepting the Bad for what it is.. Bad.

The other part that helped me personally was to understand that the “good” was just the other side of the disorder… the seduction, the hook. I used to think the good part was who he really was and the bad part was just pain run amuck or something… now I uderstand all of it is a package deal. and the good was not coming from his heart at all.



An ocean kept me from going back. Whatever works. :o) I totally and completely understand that desire to nuzzle up to the man you gave your heart to. That is who we are… we loved and we meant it.

I am glad you decided against your trip back to his town.

Much safe for you to keep a long long distance!

Thanks for your comments.




Good one… “deceased”. Very interesting observation.. we need to dehumanize them. It’s true. Only by doing that can we make any sense of how they treated us.


BM = Bad Man
BM = Bowel Movement.

Same thing! Thanks for the laugh.



BM didn’t use a predatory stare either but as I look back at pictures, there seems to be something vacant in his eyes. And there was something vacant about him in person as well. He never cracked up even when things were funny. Never. And there were so many little moments with his that didn’t feel right.


This was my criteria for his badness: Did I enjoy getting stood up twice without a phone call, while seeing him post on the reptile site as if nothing was wrong? NO. Do I want to be treated like that a third time? NO. Would a good person do this to someone they claimed to be in love with? NO! Therefore, he’s bad, and I’m done.


Dear Shabbychic2,

Ahhhh… boundaries and Bad Men….

They go hand in hand don’t they?

Shabby.. I am working on my boundaries daily. I have let friends go that cause me more stress and anxieity that good. I figured out the reason I was so stressed all the time around certain people is that they had no regard for boundaries… and I didn’t have any anyway.

Just keep reading. I have found that reading here has helped me to learn better how to assess what I see. Before, everything that happened to me had to go through a filters with me.

The filter were:

what is wrong with me that I did to make someone treat me like that…. and how can I fix it?

You see, I thought I was the source of all things around me. If I met someone new and they were unkind or rude, I would immediately feel bad about myself.. like I must somehow deserve that. Now I know that how people treat us says more about them than it does about us?

Does that make sense?

My bounadaries with ppl are getting stronger. Yours will too.

The next time you feel like saying no to someone, say it. The next time you feel that someone was rude to you or if you feel like a man is using you… lose his number and don’t pick up when he calls again for… whatever. You know what I mean?

Find a friend with strong boundaries and watch them and see how they move about the world. I do this.

It’s not my nature to go around cussing people out but when I see a woman do that when it’s called for… WOW! I think, “Wow! Would you look at that?!”

Coincidentally, my current boyfriend told me he thinks I am such a sweet person but he noticed that I am harder on him that anyone in my life. He’s right. He called me a B*tch when we were joking around and I SHUT HIM DOWN!


I wouldn’t have done that in the past. Maybe it’s too extreme… but I am learning about these boundary things…


Stargazer… GOOD FOR YOU! I put up with way more than that. WAAAAAYYYYY!

Good Job SISTER!

BM… hehehe…. yes.. it means POOP.



Keep them small and puny. I love it. Bad Man does sound big and scary. If we use our little shorty: BM… seems kind of small… like a small pile…. uh… never mind.

Yes, he is small in my mind. He has shriveled up and I have grown far far beyond his grip in my heart and soul.

I learned my biggest lessons from a very small man.



Aloha: I feel like an alien tonight. I didn’t know he was that BAD until everything was destroyed. He ran the long con. Yes, there were flags, but they were all to easy to explain. And he had already co-opted me to where I couldn’t cut him out and ship him off, because he had ensured that we were too entangled.

His goal? I thought that even his “greed” would protect me, because I was the only source of income and business credibility. What I never expected was that all that wouldn’t even matter to him. I knew he was crazy when I walked away. It’s just that he looked more sane than sane.

You said, “There are so many similiarities in the disorders. It’s hard to separate them into clean little profiles, isn’t it?” Yes, absolutely. You are so correct. I’ve had relationships in the past where I know I loosened my boundaries, I know I tolerated abuse when I might have stood up to it and stopped it sooner.

This was different. He secured the trust of me, my parents, and everyone around, and he made sure that all the money funneled through me, so I look like the scoundrel. He promised (as if he knows the meaning of the term) to so many people, but he always made sure that my name, and not his, was on the hook for the obligation.

It’s almost two years now, and I still don’t know if I’ve really made any progress toward recovery. Understanding of his personality disorder? Yes. But progress in my own life? He not only stole everything I had or didn’t have (like future profits and paychecks), but also every measure of reserve that my parents might have given me or that any other friends or business associates might have granted me.

And I remember him holding me tenderly in his arms at night, soothing me as he whispered me to sleep. I don’t mourn for that. I know what he is. I just have no concept of how justice can ever be served, or how I will ever reclaim my life. The devastation goes on and on.

Yeah, this was far beyond narcissism. This was pure evil.



I absolutely agree with Stargazer. If you are here, he was bad. Not you.

His dramatic ending with you is so typical. He must have you believe it’s all you. Look back at that moment… now imagine him like the Wizard of OZ behind the curtain… a silly little man trying to put on a big scary act. That’s what he was doing to you… on the ground, making you “admit” it was all you.

It wasn’t sweet one. I totally wasn’t.

If you haven’t already, let that one go today! Do a little ritual to help yourself let that go.

Think of the picture in your mind of that most painful moment and then watch this….

XO Aloha


Hi Rune,

Are you still there? I am so sorry you had to go through this. It sounds truly painful and… I can’t find a word… but to be duped in this way… very difficult to heal from that. It is very painful to be violated in this way.

You know, my essays speak about me and how I recovered but I know I don’t have all the answers. I went trhough what I went through. I can undestand to a certain degree what you went through.

To be “comforted” in such a tender way by someone that is literally raping you reputation and damaging your integrity with people in the community. This is a total mind f*ck.

I just want you to know that I do understand that even if our experience are not exactly the same.

I hope that is a tiny bit of comfort to you.

Sometimes, I write in a funny way about my experiences but I don’t want anyone to think that I think any of this is funny. It’s not.

It was deeply painful for all of us.


Rune: The name of his game was to destroy you! He detested your confidence. He detested your accomplishments. He detested your creativity. He detested everything you stood for. Why? Because he knows he can never accomplish what you accomplished and so, he had to destroy every fiber of you!

Hang in their sweetie. My Ex did the same to me.

What am I guilty of? Loving and believing in him.



Aloha. Mahalo. By a strange coincidence, the business trip that took me out of the house and away from the S/P, took me to Hawaii. As the minutes ticked away, my own brain started to normalize, and I came to sense the horror I had been living with. I remember breaking down and sobbing on a boat in the clear, brilliant water after I had just experienced the thrill of swimming with dolphins.

Someone I trust has said to me that when we are in touch with that greater Consciousness, we are having an “oceanic experience.” I remember floating on my belly, my breath gurgling out as I breathed through the snorkel, and watching as delicate silvery crescents drifted upward to become the whistling, chirping, laughing dolphins that still haunt my dreams. And I remember, as I lay in the water, hearing the somber deep tone of a whale who was a mile or more away.

That experience taught me lessons I am still processing. Among them, I learned something about how we communicate, through vibration, over long distances. I could say that is what we are doing right now on our LF site.

I am so depleted, but somehow each day, each hour, each minute brings enough to get me through. Today someone sent me a slew of those emais that are too funny to even talk about. Next time I get an email from that person, I’m going to pee before I open it! Funny is OK. It’s one of the tools we have for survival. My survival has been threatened by this predator on every level — I do not exaggerate.

Thank you for your quick and heartfelt response. I don’t mean to undermine your message. Perhaps there are others who have faced something like my situation. I know that we support each other, sometimes simply by believing each other’s story.


Thank you, Wini. I know. But if I’d been in N.O. during Katrina, people would understand better what has happened to my life. This is like a concussion — no one can see the brain damage because there’s no blood, there’s no obvious cause. But the devastation is profound.

Ox Drover

Dear Rune,

You are correct, “because there is no blood” people do not see the devestation, the terrible injury. Even if people who were in NO or in a war, plane crash, or whatever the trauma was, the injury is not visually apparent, but IT IS THERE!!!

If you have a cast on your leg, people can SEE that your leg is broken, or if you are bent over with arthritis and are elderly, people can SEE you are disabled, but with INVISIBLE injuries, the empathy, the sympathy, the compassion just isn’t there many times from others, even our friends and family.

I think that people can imagine a broken leg and the injury from a burn, but the invisible inuury is so invisible it is “non-existent.” Not being “strong” and “just getting over it” is a sign of something being wrong with US….it seems anyway.

Noo one would think of telling you to “just get over” a broken leg, or large burns, but somehow “they” expect you to “just get over” the injury from the psychopath. The expectations from others that we should “just move on” invalidates our injury and wounds us again. It devalues our feelings and our reality of knowing that we are gravely injured.

Yes, funny does help—((((hugs)))))


Rune: How ironic you correlate your experience with Katrina! When Sept 11 occured, I thought to myself … now the world is on the same horror page I’ve been on for the last few years. I was referring to my bosses terrorzing my entire being. I had no clue my EX was the same monster.

What an easy target they (my bosses) made me for the likes of my EX. Go figure. I have to separate (or were they) bloodsucking situations going on at the same time … What are the chances of this.

To this day, I believe my Ex was a ringer for my bosses. How can I have my bosses, their cronies, the union, personnel, Affirmative Action, my attorneys (two separate incidences) my fiance) all going on at the same time doing me under. There is no one in the world that will tell me this was all a coincidence!


Oxy Sweetie, are you still on-line? Hi if you are.


Thank you, Oxy & Wini. That we can simply understand this helps me. We give each other the reality check.

Now, what do we do with the rest of our lives? I suspect I’ll be healing for a long time. I need some positive distractions to remind me that life is also NOW! and to gently tug me away from this abyss.



Thanks for the reminded… life is now.

I n eeded this reminder today.


Rune: I know I look for only the positives of life instead of trying to correct any of the negatives. It’s the focus on positives that keeps me going. I liked what one of the guys wrote a month ago … that if he ever meets someone again that needs help … he’s going to find out what they’ve done to resolve their own problems first. If they are at least trying (and it’s a constructive try) … then he’ll think about helping them. If they aren’t even trying, he knows that they are a con artist and will stay clear.

No big dramatic steps … just small steps towards the light.



Oh, and Rune, I do ask people about what they think of spirituality. If someone thinks this subject is a farce … I stay clear from them too.

I know our horrific experiences have lifted us up a wrung of the ladder we hadn’t a clue existed. I know others who have never dealt or acknowledged the likes of our EXs haven’t a clue to what we’ve endured and would never understand how any of us survived.



Hey Buddy … how are you? Good to see you haven’t forgotten us.


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