By | December 3, 2010 575 Comments

1001 Things I Did Wrong In Dealing with a Psychopath

By Ox Drover

After reading Steve Becker’s article yesterday, I commented that most of the articles here on Lovefraud that could be entitled “1001 Things I Did Wrong in Dealing with a Psychopath” were the ones that applied most to my own dealings with them.

That was meant as a joke, but after I left that comment for Steve, I got to thinking about how right-on it was, joke or not, because I have done so much wrong in dealing with these people. I got my self deeper and deeper into trouble, doing the wrong things in interacting with them. Not that I was intentionally doing something mean or “wrong” per se, but I didn’t make choices that led to positive outcomes in dealing with the psychopaths in my life.

One of the reasons I did 1001 things wrong was that I didn’t know what I was dealing with. I thought I was dealing with people who had good intentions toward me, just as I had good intentions toward them. Boy, was that a wrong thing to assume. But because I assumed this error in fact about their intentions, I tried to “be reasonable” with them. That sure didn’t work. They broke their word to me time and time again. It took me a long time “to get it through my thick skull,” as MaryJo Buttafuoco said in her book, and then, when I did get it through my thick head that “Person A” couldn’t be trusted, I didn’t “generalize” that knowledge to other people who also broke their words to me over and over and over again.

Learning to generalize

Even animals can learn to generalize. A friend and I trained steer, getting them used to “something that rattled.” It didn’t matter what rattled; we would use plastic milk jugs with rocks in them, and tie those jugs to their tails so that every time they took a step, this “rattling monster” attached to them would make noise and follow them. For a little while they were scared and ran from it, but eventually they got the idea that the “rattling monster” wasn’t going to be outrun by them (it always kept up), and it wasn’t actually going to hurt them. Eventually they decided anything that rattled and made noise was harmless.

With one set of young steers my friend trained though, if you got them used to a white jug with rocks in it, and they weren’t afraid of it any more, if you used a yellow jug, they would go back to SQUARE ONE PANIC AGAIN, with each tiny change in the “monster.” They didn’t “generalize” very well and were always hyper-alert and on guard. He eventually got them so they were  “dynamite proof,” so he could take them out in public without being afraid they would panic at the first sound they weren’t used to, or the first loud retort from a fire cracker, but he and I both thought for a long time they might not ever generalize enough to be safe from panicking and running away out in public.

Abusive behavior

I think in a way I also didn’t “generalize” the abusive behaviors of the various psychopaths I encountered. When a boss would be dishonest and verbally abusive to me, I was upset and “panicked” at the unexpected behavior, trying to figure out how to not get hurt, but when a relative would do this same kind of behavior I, again, panicked and didn’t realize that the “rattle” was just the same kind of “monster” that I had encountered with the other psychopath. Of course I didn’t realize then that the psychopathic “monsters” had a name or that their lack of empathy and their damage was definitely destructive, unlike a milk jug with a few rocks in it.

I not only tried to be “reasonable” with the psychopaths, but I also tried to placate them, to make them see, by being extra nice to them and not “bowing up and fighting back,” that I wasn’t trying to hurt them. I wanted to be “friends” and get along.

Of course, when a prey animal tries to get along with a predator animal we know what happens, don’t we? The prey animal gets the worst end of the deal. Yep, I did get the worst end of the deal trying to “make nice” with the psychopaths, but again, I didn’t learn that a psychopath is a psychopath is a psychopath is a predator! Rather than generalize this hurtful behavior to a class of people, I saw each one as an individual person with “reasons” and “excuses” and the “potential to change” and “see the light” when there was no chance that they were going to have any empathy, much less sympathy, for the pain they caused me or anyone else. They didn’t give a hoot how badly they hurt me as long as they got what they wanted.

Wanted to get along

I also didn’t really see what it was that they actually wanted. I didn’t want to cause anyone any pain, I wanted to love people and get along with them and share good things and help folks out. This is what I thought that everyone wanted. What they actually did want, however, was to control me, humiliate me, and to get me to provide them with their own twisted idea of a relationship—all take on their part and all give on mine.

Just like the hyper-alert steers, I didn’t feel comfortable, and was always jumpy, expecting something to hit me, but I wasn’t sure where it would come from, so each time a psychopath lied to me, stole from me, took advantage of me, I was totally surprised again and again.

Eventually that young pair of steers got to where they were not surprised by anything in the way of a loud noise and they calmed down and became a reliable pair of working steers (oxen). But it was only because they learned to move from the individual to the general concepts of what would or would not hurt them. They learned that a little yappy dog running at their feet was not a danger, but that a large aggressive dog was something that they should kick at or hook at with their horns. They learned that the sound of a fire cracker or a car back firing, or a cannon shooting at a historical reenactment, wasn’t going to hurt them and they didn’t need to pay it any attention. They learned to distinguish between harmless noises like people yelling or laughing and their drover saying “get up” and meaning it!

I’m not sure why these particular steers were so difficult to train. Perhaps it was because the breed was the wilder Spanish cattle from Mexico whose ancestors that had not jumped every time there was a noise in the brush had been taken out of the gene pool by the wolves, coyotes and mountain lions, so only the “jumpy” ones were left.

Changed my response

I’m also not sure why I didn’t generalize from the abusive behavior I endured over and over, or change the failed attempts to get it to stop by doing repeatedly something that had not worked. Someone once said, “insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” I sure did enough of that for two lifetimes. Now I have changed the way I respond to abusive behavior. I am learning to distinguish the difference between  “harmless rattles” and “real threats” from predators.

I have made some general “rules” to guide me in my differentiation of what is “harmless” and what is “threatening.” First off, it depends on how close to me the threat is. A rattle snake at 10 yards from me is no threat at all. I know he could hurt me if he was closer, but I will not let him get close enough to strike me, so I don’t have to fear him. If that same rattle snake is 3 feet from me, I take a different view of the potential for harm from the same snake, and react in a different way than I do to the one who is 30 feet away.

If a person who is not “close to me” lies to me, it probably isn’t going to be much of a danger to me, unless it is a big business deal. I don’t fear that lie from someone I don’t really have any connection with, I just notice (like with the rattle snake at a distance) that the person is dishonest, I don’t want him to get closer to me.

If a person who is “close to me” lies, that has a much bigger potential for harm to me, both emotionally and otherwise. Therefore I will move away from that dishonest person, put some distance between me and them so that if they do strike, they won’t be close enough to hit me or do any significant damage.

Threat or benign

Once I have determined that a person, animal, or object is a potential threat rather than a benign creature, I will keep a wary eye on it. I won’t make excuses for the potential damage, and once it has tried to hurt me, it won’t have another chance. I no longer trust anything or anyone without assessing the potential damage that could be done.

Cynical? No, I don’t think so, just cautious. I don’t venture into the world like there are no dangers out there, no evil people. I do know now that there are some evil creatures in the world,  some potential threats to my life, sanity and health. But I no longer walk in terror, because I have realized what the evil creatures are. I am no longer terrified of the “rattling milk jugs,” but I give a wide berth to the “poison snakes.”

I’ve finally personally learned from the “1001e things I did wrong in dealing with psychopaths.”

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I think I am a DEAF cow. I can’t hear the rattling that should alert me to danger.

I have learned to treat everything as a possible danger. I have stopped being spontaneous.

I lie. Mostly by ommission b/c what happened in my misery years is not for public discussion. But by withholding, I create an image that isn’t true, and truthfully I WANT that image b/c telling the truth changes how people treat me. They do not respect me if I tell them I left an abusive marrige. I lose business, clients, income, opportunities. I am judged unless I lie. They don’t give me credit as a victor over bad circumstances. They see me as tainted and I guess they don’t want to be associated with such drama. So I have learned to lie. (I don’t lie about who I am or my character and I do what I say I will do.)

Since lying is normal (not withstanding Spaths and their victims), how do you discern acceptable lying (which all people in society do – “oh you look so young for your age!”) – vs red flag lying?

I’ve been working on trying to hear the rattles. Funny that all I come up with is a funny feeling, that something is off, but I can’t put my finger on it. That’s as close as I come to early ID of possible trolls.


Oxy this is one of the best articles written by you yet — who the heck are you anyway? 🙂

You live on a farm. I live in the City. I have been a city girl all my life.

Do we have anything in common. I would say so but only through the the miracle of the internet. Some people say it has destroyed society but I am saying that it helps people connect and allows people to speak their minds. I want everyone to write into Oprah as I have. let’s shine a light.

cheers and peace “mother bear”


Ox Drover

Thank you velveeta! (((hugs)))

Katy, you may indeed be “deaf” and I think sometimes we are deaf to that “rattlesnake’s” warning rattle, or because we live Velveeta have been raised in the city and don’t understand that the “rattle” means something dangerous IS NEAR….it is sort of that we are CONDITIONED to not pay attention to the rattle of a rattle snake or know it is dangerous.

My son D read this article this morning after it went up on LF and he was laughing at it ( he usually does laugh at my articles, but in a good way) He was laughing at how I said that I handle a danger up close in a DIFFERENT WAY than one that is further away. He was laughing at where I said I would “move away” from a closer up danger, and he said “OR KILL IT!” LOL And he’s right, there are times the proper response to a danger is to kill the critter that is going after you. We aren’t allowed to kill humans unless they are trying to kill us FIRST, so we have to give them the “first shot” and that doesn’t seem fair sometimes, but with other critters, just the THREAT of the danger is enough to make me chop their heads off. Poison snakes don’t come around here except at the risk of their lives—and yea, I know that in the wild they may be beneficial, but around my house, the risk is too great–I’ve seen poison snake bites and I do NOT want one.

Son D also read Steve’s article and he said I KNOW THAT KID! He works with Boy Scouts as a counselor and he see kids just like “Harold” 150 times a year—some of them never change, and some are just “arsehole kids” that will more or less grow out of their bad attitudes. Son D thinks that of the younger kids like Harold that maybe 25% of them will at least “become human” by the time they are 20. LOL

Son D also said that my comment about I “didn’t know why” I kept repeating over and over the same mistakes wasn’t true, he said I DID know, and it was because like a young calf being trained from birth to do the bidding of the drover, and to obey without question or rebelling no matter what it is asked to do, or how it is abused, that I had been CONDITIONED from birth to comply and not question authority, and I think he’s right there.

The steers that were so difficult to train were not started in training until they were 6 months old, so that made them more difficult to condition as well. They were wild to start with. I was trained like we usually train steers, from BIRTH. Conditioned when I could not resist and had no other ideas about what was okay or not okay.

BUT I can’t entirely “blame” my lack of learning on that early conditioning though I am sure it had something to do with it. I have a much more sophisticated brain than those steers do, so I need to use it to learn to generalize about threats, to go from the specific to the general concepts, and to learn that if PLAN A doesn’t work, then doing it again isn’t going to work either, so maybe I might need to move on the PLAN B!

I’ve been guilty too many times of trading one bad situation for another, and getting rid of one Psychopath out of my life, only to embrace another one in another capacity or relationship.

Now, I am seeing the similarities in the psychopaths, seeing the PATTERNS of bad behavior and realizing, “Hey if person A lies and they hurt me, ,then if person B lies, they MIGHT HURT ME” DUH? What ya think?

Ox Drover


You asked about “lying” and that you felt you were lying by not telling others about your past abuse—I don’t feel that there is an OBLIGATION to tell anyone your life history in order to do business with them as a client or boss or neighbor or anything else.

Yes, I agree with you, too many people do not see you as a valid person if you have been abused and they INVALIDATE your humanity, your suffering, and your value—WHY? Not sure but your observation about SOME people’s attitude I think is right on.

To me that is why LF is valuable, because WE DO GET IT, and we do not invalidate your suffering, or blame you for it.

Lying? I don’t think you ARE lying if you reply to a social question of “How are you today?” and you reply “Oh, fine, how about you!” First off–that question is a SOCIAL GESTURE NOT a real question wanting information—your response is an EXPECTED SOCIAL GESTURE in response to a GREETING RITUAL between two people who really don’t know each other well.

Now, if someone you love says “How are you today KatyDid?” that may be a REAL QUESTION wanting REAL INFORMATION, and your reply would be a REAL ANSWER not a “social gesture”. So you might say, “I’m pretty depressed today, thanks for asking.”

So responses to social “gestures” I do not think are “lying”—

And that includes the “do these pants make my butt look big?” LOL My son would reply, “are you wanting the truth or do you want me to say NO?” LOL Or he might say, “REALLY, they don’t.” if he meant it. So he tells me the truth either way and I accept what he says. To the first response, I may say, “I think they DON’T make me look bigger, and besides that’s all I have to wear!” LOL

While you might like it if more people would validate that “YEP, YOU HAD A BAD TIME AND WERE TREATED UNFAIRLY” frankly I think most people would rather not care.

I read an article in a London paper the other day about how an elderly man had fallen on the side walk and lay there in a busy street for 5 hours and people walking around him, stepping over him, and NO ONE STOPPED TO HELP. Does that make me sound cynical about people’s “caring factor?” Maybe it does, but I think basically at least 50% of the people are on the UNCARING side of the average in the bell curve. (average = mean, or the middle of the curve where 50% are below and 50% above.)

So, don’t beat yourself up for “lying” and don’t confuse LYING with “social responses” which are just RITUALS like two dogs sniffing each others arses! (((hugs)))


Great article Oxy! (as usual)
You are an expert on “dealing with psych/socio paths!
Only those who has lived through it know what it is really like!

The only way to “deal” with these to LISTEN to your “GUT” feelings from ‘hello’ and RUN from them and do NOT deal with them!

They are SO convincing, and so good at lovebombing and the pity ploy….that they will confuse you and make you think that YOU are crazy!

When I think back of my most recent experience with a S/P, and how I gave him 3 chances…(broke up with him and let him back three times)….before I finally said “Enough!”…..
I wonder why I didn’t listen to my gut feelings each time, which were screaming at me…”He’s a phony!”

I am smart, experienced and wise, yet I was SO confused by this one….because I was so “bonded” to him…(“seduced by him”), and after 5 months of NC each time, I always went back. I wanted to believe that he was being honest . The good was so good…but the lying and deception was the worst thing ever.

And it never stopped.

I finally confronted him, told him, without anger …only hurt, that what he did was so hurtful and that he is NOT a decent man , but a liar and cheater and he lost his “best friend”. I told him he might be bipolar, or he was just who he is and will never change…and it was OVER and I am blocking his number this time.

And I did.

I don’t want to go to the place I was in a year and a half ago, and I won’t because this time, I am so much stronger and my heart is scarred that it will never open up and let someone in so easily again.

I was kind, compassionate and caring and gave alot to a monster that didn’t deserve it. My big mistake was not listening to my gut feelings…

kim frederick

Oxy, I am always breaking that social convention where someone asks, “how are you?” and expects to hear the requsite, “fine.” I kind of enjoy telling the truth, like, “oh, I have a head-ache” or, “I’m tired.” I don’t go on and on, but I think it’s a hoot to point out to others just how little they really care, so why ask? If they ask, I tell ’em. Maybe the next time they see me they’ll say, “nice day isn’t it” instead of asking me how I am.

People usually respond with a bit of surprise, because we all know we are supposed to be, “fine.”

Maybe I’m a little bit naughty, but it’s harmless, and I’ve always been the soothsayer type. LOL


Dear ToBeHappy:

I understand the 3 strikes your out. I did the same thing. The first time I let him back in, I told him that my family was very upset with him for the way he treated me. He said he would sit down with each one and apologize and let them know that this is it and that he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. And so he met them and poured out the croc tears…then 2 months later he left me again. Then 6 weeks later he comes back with “I am so sorry for hurting you. I am just so confused of where I should be and who I should be with…my ex-wife or you”. So I let him back in and this time he plays on my religious beliefs and says he wants to speak to my pastor to get help…..just another ploy so that I would believe that he was changing (mirroring) my life to let him back in. Two months later he leaves me again, but this time, I packed his crap and put it out in the snow by the road. I was finished with his “dangling carrot”. He always gave me just a little bit more each time to make me think he was changing for the better only to go back to the way he was.

At one point, he made me so crazy that I actually was questioning my own beliefs in God. (I have a very strong faith), but even this SPATH made me question whether there was a God. Scared the daylights out of me.

I have had no contact for 6 weeks, even though he keeps trying to contact me, I remain strong and do not answer his texts. I am giving him enough rope to hang himself by saying the wrong thing to me on the texts then I can take him to court to get my $8,000 back that I loaned him.

Whew……I just had to take a deep breath and realize just how far I have come in just 6 weeks from the 7 year nightmare.




I read your post about lying. When it comes to my side business, I don’t tell people too much about myself. They can hear about my kids, full-time job, etc., but nothing about my marriage. I do not talk about the h-spath, letting anyone know that I’m separated. I am still recovering from most of my experiences (brought to me courtesy of hubby), not wanting to share the unreality of my past with others (who couldn’t relate to it anyway). What I am trying to do is spare myself the embarrassment of divulging too much about the person that I married, that he can definitely act like a low-life. Peace.

Great article, Oxy. Before I read it, I thought you were going to be asking us to contribute a few of our own 1,001 things we did wrong. And I thought, oh wow, where would I start?

I really liked what you wrote about the shift from the particular to the general. When I was “in the particular,” I felt like The Far Side’s famous “crisis clinic” cartoon with the burning building about to crash over the waterfall. Everything was urgent, desperate, needing to be fixed immediately and I was responsible for all of it. In the general, I could back away a bit and see the patterns.

But the funny thing about sociopaths is that I think we see the patterns pretty early in the game. We just don’t believe what we’re seeing. I remember thinking to myself, “I’m just not understanding him; no one is really like that.” And then I’d force myself to relax, to not be so judgmental, to not try to control everything, to wait and see how things worked out.

That I think was about #27 of the 1,001 things I did wrong.

#1 was enjoying feeling flattered and basking in all the attention I was getting from this guy. That was the very, very beginning of it all.

Years later he told me that he was bored to death while he was spending all that time acting like I was the most fascinating person he’d ever met.

Have you ever heard me say I don’t like being complimented? Don’t trust it. Don’t like the idea that someone is judging me, even if the decisions are positive. Don’t want to feel good about being told how wonderful I am, because it means I’m equally vulnerable to feeling bad if I’m criticized or belittled. Don’t want to ever again make my happiness dependent on other people’s opinions of me.

That’s what I learned from mistake #1.

Oxy, you might have a book here. Maybe with cartoons.




Thank you for your support. I went NC TWICE FOR 5 MONTHS!!! The second time I went back, it lasted 5 months…then 5 months NC. This time, I caught him and CALLED him on the lies! He was denying that HE put the profiles on the dating and sex sites….LOL! That his daughter, friends put it on , used it….etc!!!
He called me his best friend…which I was, but he was my worst enemy! He wanted to still “talk” and meet for a movie…He wanted his “emotional supply” , becuase he called me a thous times a day to dump his feelings and problems on me….and then he figured he’d con me into sex again.
I said…Why on earth would I consider YOU a “friend”??? You lied to me and cheated on me. He finally admitted that he was meeting women from the sites all along and was wrong and was sorry!!! Imagine that!!! I said, “Gee, after 3 yrs you admit it and think its ok and I should forgive you! I am blocking your number and don’t ever contact me.” He said he wouldn’t. ( I unveiled the mask!!!) I said “Thank you, Goodbye”.

This time, since the mask was stripped off of his face, he will run…hopefully , and stay away!!! Last time he emaile me and sent me letters in the mail.

I swear on my children’s lives…I will NEVER contact him again in my life.

God don’t like ugly. He will be taken care of.

When he (Satan) left me , each time….ALL GOOD THINGS came to me…MONEY, Health, and PEACE inside. It took months…but I went to therapy and groups and read, and posted and read here…and joined a gym…and I was finally “over” the nightmare and moving forward. All anxiety left me and I was moving on. …..then I answered a text!

I KNOW that I will grieve this whole mess for awhile…but I will never feel as sad and angry and hurt as I did when it first happenned.

So, we need to thank God for taking Satan out of our lives, and keep the faith. We are good people, angels…..and the devil (evil people) always target us. So, we need to be TOUGH angels.

Thanks again!

Ox Drover

Dear Kathy,

As ALWAYS you bring up a point I had not thought about—-the liking it when people say good things about me! DUH! Yea, I DO like it when people say good things about me, but….I AM getting to the point that I DON’T give a big rat’s behind if they say BAD things about me…does that mean I am HALF WAY THERE? LOL

And I AM getting it that I am not dependent on my happiness for other people’s opinions, but at the same time I am NOT SO INDEPENDENT THAT I want to go live by myself on a desert island.

I want to be INTER-dependent with those I love, not dependent, and not in-dependent either, but in that MID-LEVEL-ZONE where I enjoy the approval of those who love me, but don’t 100% depend on that for my very survival. If that makes any sense.

Yea, I love the “crisis clinic” and the “Far Side” and YES, everything WAS urgent and immediate and I was responsible for it, they make sure it was that way, that there were SO MANY ALLIGATORS biting my arse that I had no time to drain the swamp! In fact, my P son wrote a letter to the Trojan Horse P telling him ways to accomplish just that, to keep me off balance, to have this person or that person do this or that, and to try to bankrupt me—I WAS **IN*** THAT ‘CRISIS CLINIC’ GOING OVER THE FALLS, KATHY! LOL (thanks for reminding me of that great laugh!)

I think we could all add a long list of the “1001 things” we did wrong in dealing with the psychopath, but the thing is that 999 of them would all be the SAME things…I think that is what LF is all about, we have so much in common.

The moving from the particular to the general, and the general to the particular is important now to me to keep me safe. Sometimes I noticed in training animals that SOME animals that we trained will “honor” ANY human as alpha, and others will only honor CERTAIN people as “alpha” to them.

Dogs are generally like that and are BETA to their owner’s ALPHA, but most dogs will also “sit” if ANY person tells them to, in other words, “honoring” ANY human above themselves.

I noticed with some breeds of cattle that we would train to work as “oxen” (that is a job title, not a special kind of animal, just cattle trained to work) some breeds who appeared to be smarter than others, would only “honor” their owner or master, but not other people. So would only “obey” or “work for” one particular person. Other cattle would obey anyone that was a human and knew the right words —i.e. get up, whoa, gee and haw—my border collie would not work for my son D unless I commanded him to, and my dog’s mother “belonged” to D and would not work for me unless he told her to, and she would refuse to work for ANY one who raised their voice to her–she would quit and go to the house. My dog didn’t care what you yelled at him, or how loud you were. But, she had been abused as a pup before we got her and my dog, her son, had never been abused, so wasn’t afraid of the loud commands.

She had apparently been yelled at before she was hit, so she generalized that ANYONE who yelled was going to hit her so she RAN AWAY before she got hit.

I know for a fact it was a man that had abused her, yet she CHOSE my son D as her “owner/master” over me (Border Collies pick their owners from among the family members, not the other way around) She probably picked him because even though he was a man (and a man had abused her) she didn’t GENERALIZE that abusers were male, but that abusers were LOUD and I have –guess what!!!—a LOUD voice! so she picked him over me. Even then it took us 3 months before she would take a piece of bacon out of our hands she was so skittish, and even then we had to have a CHILD give it to her. She loved children and was totally unafraid of kids, only LOUD adults.

Because of her GENERALIZED FEAR of “loud” voices when I did used (worked) her, I had to be very conscious and careful that I didn’t forget and raise my voice and frighten her.

Somewhere here on LF either earlier today or yesterday someone was talking (CRS forgive me can’t remember who) about their DISTRUST of men—that is a generalized fear rather than a particular fear of “people who lie” or “males who lie” or “men who raise their voices” etc. So the person I think with the “distrust of men in general” should maybe look at the SPECIFIC thing that the person/man did that was hurtful, rather than just being “distrustful” or afraid of “men in general.”

I’m not really afraid of “snakes in general” because I know that not all snakes 1) are likely to bite 2) poison and 3) are more afraid of me than I am of them, but having SEEN a poison snake bite, I do NOT want to even take a chance of getting a poison snake bite myself, so I AM AFRAID of, and RESPECT the ability of, poison snakes to SEVERELY injure me if I get close enough to them for them to strike/bite me.

That, I think, is a reasonable FEAR, and I will continue to have that, but I am NOT going to have an UN-reasonable generalized fear of ALL Snakes. So I can move from the particular to the general and back again in a way that makes sense to me, and I think keeps me SAFE without excess or unrealistic fears or hyper alertness. If that makes any sense.

Thanks for your input Kathy! You always expand on my ideas and make them better! (((hugs)))

That makes so much sense, Oxy. I think your female dog and I have a lot in common. I get scared of loud voices too.

Thank you so much for your kind words. They make me feel valued and welcome. I should moderate what I said before about compliments. Being appreciated and acknowledged by someone who knows me is completely different than being slathered with compliments by a relative stranger. I trust that you care about me, and that makes a lot of difference. It’s one of the wonderful things about LoveFraud, the great network of understanding and support that just lights this place up.

I’ve been at this computer for 14 hours and I’m going away now. Have a great weekend! And stay warm. It’s below freezing here!


Ox Drover

Yea, Kathy, the “slathered with compliments by a relative stranger” is definitely a RED FLAG for someone trying to put the con on you!

I’m reading a book now that I had hoped to do a review of, but because this book is so FILLED with wisdom and knowledge I am going to do a Series of articles about it. I have the first one written and will work on the others. It is not a book you read quickly, but 1-2 pages at a time and then”ponder” them…then re-read them and ponder some more.

The thing I am learning from it though, is that just like the 1001 things I “did wrong” with the psychopaths, if I had had this information I wouldn’t have done 999 of those Things—-I would have been fore-warned and fore-armed, but just like we talked about in “warning” others about a particular psychopath, until we are READY TO HEAR, and READY TO BELIEVE, no one can convince us that the person we are dealing with is EVIL. Not even ourselves, not even our gut, not even our intuition.

I’m just getting to a point now that I am SO Ready to listen to wisdom, to knowledge, to learning, and to PRACTICE IT…KEEP WARM! (((hugs))))


Oxy, I have to agree, this is one of your best articles.
That is what I’ve been trying to do as well, learn to see the pattern. Which behaviors look like which other behaviors, and how do they connect? When I finally read, “why is it always about you?”, and learned what narcissism really meant, that it was infantile behavior coming from an emotional retarded person, and fueled by envy (memetic desires that infants have), then I could see what I had been dealing with. But everyday I have new revelations and understanding about how the details all fit together and the puzzle is starting to flesh out the picture.

Edit: I also agree, that until we’re ready, the information may not sink in. At age 17 I noticed how much he lied and I kept looking for information on liars. I read “People of the Lie” but I didn’t get it. Could not wrap my head around a concept of evil that appeared so NICE.



I think I keep making some of those mistakes, I had hoped that I was on maybe number 900 or 998 but it seems I’m around number 600.

One of the things you mentioned was thinking that a person who has bad behavior might change so you keep going with the distorted notion of change in that person. Well, it’s not happening, not in this life or the next, thank you very much.

I pray that I don’t lose my faith in some of humanity and one day I will stop feeling so sad for the dream I lost.

Ox Drover

“evil that appeared so NICE” Ah, yes, Sky, they put on the mask and pretend to be so nice—but it wouldn’t be tempting to believe them if it looked UGLY LIKE IT IS, so they mask it to appear pretty! A turd wrapped up in beautiful paper is still a turd! LOL

Ox Drover

Dear Hope4, we posted over each other I think, but as soon as you are essentially AWAY from him, NC, you will start to improve more and quicker…I know it has been a long hard road but you are making progress…I’ve been so anxious for you to move FASTER, but you move at the pace YOU move at, and at the time YOU are ready to make that move! It is coming! My frustration at YOU not moving fast enough to suit ME is MY problem! LOL I admit that there were times I wanted to shake you and say “get a grip woman, toss that a-hole OUT!” But that is NOT my time table it is YOURS and you are doing it at the pace that is RIGHT FOR YOU!

I know it is difficult and sheesh, I took 40 years+ to come to grips with the various psychopaths in my life and realize what was going on, I made all “1001 mistakes” and made them 1001 TIMES EACH! So who the heck am I to tell you to “speed it up” kiddo? You are making progress at the rate YOU need to do so.

I really AM proud of you for finally seeing through this arsehole and taking action in a forward direction. So don’t beat on yourself for not doing things fast enough, you are doing things at the RIGHT PACE FOR YOU! I did things at the right pace for myself, each of us learns as we are ready to learn. (((hugs))))



THANKYOU! I waivered so much because of the exaggerated love bombing daily. I wanted to believe.

Yesterday was a hard day. I was going to take my mother-in-law shopping (she is a good person), and spath freaked out. Called me fake and why would I want to hurt his mom. I said we are going to Hallmark and the mall and I won’t mention the divorce until you do because it’s not my place. He was really acting bizzare and clearly did not want me to see his mom.

He called his sister, who he told ‘his’ story of the divorce and she freaked out that I would spend time with his mom. You know exactly what that means. Her husband even drove by our house to make sure everything was ok. WTF? Why would they not be ok? Oh yeah, he probably told them I’m nuts.

I have taken care of his mom after surgery, gone shopping, to lunch and take her to the doctor. No problems before. She has been a good friend and I’m sad and frankly teed off. You all could see this coming a mile away but somehow I thought that it would be different.

I think I should write her a letter with the truth and with the backup of the doctors diagnosis of narcissim. Not sure how to approach that one.

Also, I know you said to keep my son out of it. He is turning farther and farther away from me and he has been my buddy from day one. I feel tempted to say something, anything, even if it is little to plant a little seed of doubt. I don’t want him lost.

Spath looked so smug, the bastard. I e-mailed my attorney all the crap that spath has been pulling and he said to keep a journal and let him know everything.

Just another day in the life. Thanks for your concern, can’t believe I was ever trying to reconcile his actions. I thought we could get through it together. That was mistake number 200, number 1 was ever believing he was human.

Ox Drover

Dear Hope4,

Sugar, your description of him is so “text book” and his fake “love bombing” and crap, but only YOU can get to a place where YOU can truly “see” what he is up to.

Of course he will lie to his mother and his sister and so on…expect the SMEAR CAMPAIGN.

I would PUT NOTHING IN WRITING to your MIL…Just call her up and tell her over the phone that you are sorry but you are going to have to let her know that you and Her son are getting a divorce, but that you love her and hope that you and she can still have a relationship but that you CANNOT discuss the reasons for the divorce except that there are “irreconcilable differences” (don’t bad mouth him to her because she will not want to hear that no matter how much she loves you) and ditto with the SIL and BIL–

As for the son, I would just tell him that “son, I love you and I know it is upsetting for your dad and I to be divorcing, and this has nothing to do with you—-and I will NOT DISCUSS my reasons for the divorce with you at this time, but I will talk to you when you are 21. I know that may seem odd to you right now and you may be curious about why we are getting a divorce, but that is the decision I have made about it and I do not think it iis appropriate to talk to you about the problems between my self and your father. If HE discusses those problems, just recall that I chose not to discuss them with you at this time.”

That may sound like you are letting Him “win” by bad mouthing you to your son, but believe me if you get to a “leg hiking contest” like two dogs each marking their territory, your son will be in a worse spot emotionally I THINK than he will just having you calmly tell him (nicely) “son this is not your business” and you are “not at fault.” It that makes any sense. I also might consider getting “family” counseling for you and the boy together or him separately I know your dtr is in counseling and that is great! Hang on sweetie, you are doing well, this is all very difficult! (((hugs))))


Dear Hope for Joy,
I too was so sad for the dream that I lost. Can I offer you a different perspective?

I had savored memories of dream places that I went with my husband, making memories that were supposed to comfort me in my old age (I call them rocking chair memories). Instead, they reminded me of being duped and how they didn’t mean anything to him.

Then someone gave me very good advice. “You can remake your memories”. So I looked at my dreams and how they could be remade, without the taint of him. Some of them, I traveled to the same places, and enjoyed them all over again, all by myself. I took lots of pictures this time for my memory moments. Now I have SPECIAL memories of my dreams.

I let go of the dream I had and MADE A BETTER ONE, one that he couldn’t take from me.


Dear KatyDid,

Remaking memories, I like that concept. I already have vacation plans (without spath), so I can truely enjoy going somewhere not worrying about being invisible, on edge, and unhappy. I don’t need that. Going on vacation with spath I never felt right and he would be like what is wrong with you, I’m happy and you should be too. Translation, as long as he is getting what he wants, who cares about you.

I have been looking forward to taking a trip with my kids and will start planning it for next summer. I liked your idea of replacing the memories, it makes sense and the sadness will ease as I get farther from him.


Great way to rebuild your life and dreams! Revisiting and reliving through only you!!! Your dreams only!
Thats great!


Katydid –
I did the same thing but for slightly different reasons that I won’t yet go into here.

There were times and places in my life that should have been happy memories, but were not, so I avoided the places and I thought about the times with great sorrow.

A couple of years back, I revisited some of those places with my best friend. We stayed awhile and made brand new memories over the top of the old ones. This was a deliberate decision on my part – I was tired of feeling sad whenever I drove past those places.

Now when I come across them in my travels, I smile.


Kim –
I’m with you on the straight answer theory. I spent most of my life as a mediator, a pacifier, the person who made everything smooth and right; I was a master in the art of butt-covering for others who did not deserve it (learned courtesy of my lovely but enabling mother) and the smiliest person you ever did see.

So much so that when my first marriage (to a cruel man with a foul temper who tried to drown me once in the dish-washing water in the kitchen sink) collapsed – I eventually walked out – people we knew were SHOCKED! How could this be? “You were so happy together – so right for one another” No, actually, I am just a really good actress and thought that it was polite not to inflict my problems on other people. As a result of my supremely talented acting, I had no support for the duration of the marriage and very little in the wake of its demise. Not because I didn’t have friends but because nobody thought I needed any help. That was the image I had presented so well.

Now, when asked how I am, I tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. “Actually, I’m really ill with PTSD and Fibromyalgia as a result of my relationship with a psychopath who to this day is stalking me.” Those who are sorry that they asked (and really were NOT that interested) quickly disappear and do not bother me again. Those who care, stay awhile, find out more and offer support. I figure that this is a more productive road for me and my recovery. Less people to deal with (most can’t or wont handle my situation) means more time spent with people who are of value to my recovery.

It’s not mean or selfish or one-sided of me – anybody who is my friend will tell you how much I give to a friendship, so everybody wins. It just blows away the chaff is all.

Ox Drover

Dear Aussiegirl,

Good way to look at it! I’ve been both ways, answering the “social response” and answering the complete truth (ah the shocked looks!) and some days I favor one and other days I favor the other (nothing like being ambivalent about what to do! LOL)

But you know, whatever I do is OKAY because it is MY decision. I am retired, so I don’t have to put on my professional cloak and be a professional role model. I can be just my cranky old lady self and wear my feathered hat and ride my big black jackass, “Fat Ass,” and strut my stuff like I don’t have a care in the world!

I’m comfortable with most of the time not responding with much information because I realize that most folks don’t really care, and frankly I pretty much stay away from those folks anyway, but I am honest with those that are close to me, and those few people really DO care “how I am.” I have learned to treasure those people and realize just how rare REALLY DEEP CARING is.


I want to see pics of Fat Ass totin’ around the feathered hatted cranky old lady! LOL, that made my night.

I think I’ll go ride my pony tomorrow, stick a feather in my hat and call it spatharoni! It is getting late here….

Ox Drover

How’d you get it to print of 3 copies of that post! LOL Yea, it is late! I think I’ll call it Spatharoni too! LOL Glad I made you smile! Fat Ass and Hairy Ass are mammoth jacks (gelder) black with white muzzles and white eye rings and funnier’n heck! The hat is one I got at an auction and has a big HUGE pheasant feather tail on the back! Perfect for jack ass riding! But the guys say I can’t wear it during TURKEY SEASON or I might be shot! LOL

I’m out of here it is midnight here! See you guys have a good night!


i met with a psychiatrist yesterday as part of my therapy through a crime victims unit at a local hospital. she was awesome. i recounted the last five years of my life with the lover spathhole, the boss spathhole, and the family spathhole, along with other traumas. she looked at me when i was finished, and said, ”how are you still standing?” i told her … LOVEFRAUD!
she said i was depressed. i said, ”really?” how do you know?
she said, “just a hunch!” it was a hilarious, woody allen moment.
apparently, she has had some experience with sociopaths in her job as head of the psychiatric emergency room.
but this led me to love her, ”you are having a completely normal reaction to terribly abnormal circumstances.”
some people do get it. i felt better, and feel better.


spatheroni … good one! LOL!

oxy: great article. thanks for once again, layin’ it out on the line.

aussiegirl: ptsd and fibromyalgia (the don’t-touch-me-disease). i have both too. anyone else? wondering just what the physical fallout is for us … besides a 60 lb weight gain.

Ox Drover

Dear LIG,

STRESS causes lots of disorders both physical and “mental” and combined—I think MANY problems are stress-related that no one “connects the dots” to figure out what causes them–and because no “physical cause” can be found the problem is put off to neurosis or faking or imagined, and FM is one of those things that is VERY REAL but still many medical practitioners don’t really “believe in” it–and it is not well understood, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t REAL! DUH!

I think you will find as you decrease your on-going and continual stress levels a lot of the physical and combined problems will start to decrease in intensity if they don’t completely go away.

Welcome to the land of the 60 pound weight gain (over 6 yrs) I’m working hard on losing it and have lost 21 pounds so far but am stuck on a flat spot, so am having to readjust my intake and exercise yet again, as well as CRITICALLY watch the sodium (salt) intake but at least I am getting a handle on it, and not DENYING I have a problem.

Getting out of the denial and excuse stage is the FIRST important step and I’ve made that one at least! Well, outside for a nice walk while the weather is good!

super chic

Oxy, thank you for a wonderful article. I never knew what they really wanted either. Wish we had all figured this out somehow about 30 years ago!! :/


What a good article-it starts ya thinking about things. Ever since I first came on here, I learned SO much about what I was dealing with in my former relationship. Back earlier in the year, this new guy came to work with us at my job. I immediately got red flags about sociopathic tendencies in him. I just decided to watch him real close without getting close to him. He eventually became a “work buddy” that I can cut up with at work.

He finally got me to have a beer with him after work. I had told him all about my horrible experience with my ex-to get his reaction. He tried to act like he was sensitive to it but it was obvious and expected that his sentiments weren’t real and that he didn’t have empathy or conscience. I had a feeling that he was a cheater-after all, he had a lot of characteristics of my ex, who is a cheater. That night when we were having a beer he revealed to me blatantly that he had multiple affairs on his wife and told me about several of them. I immediately started to get really nauseated-especially when he told me how he was “so in love with his wife”. He told me how one of his affairs ended because the younger girl fell in love with him and tried to get him to leave his wife. He told her-“we talked about this from the beginning, this is only an affair, I love my wife and I’m not leaving her”. Then I really started to feel sick and I told him not to bother trying to explain that mentality to me because I didn’t except it. I said, “how can you try to justify that to me when you know what happened to me?”. I had been conned by the married guy and due to my low self esteem, I ignored my morals and went along with it-biggest mistake of my life, and the biggest learning experience. It took me SO long to not believe that God hated me for what I did.

I told him-“if you want to know all about how that girl that you hurt felt, I can tell you.” It is the shittiest feeling ever”. I told him that if he wanted any kind of respect from me, he will never do that again. I told him that he better not ever say how much he loves his wife to me or anyone else and then talk about cheating like it’s no big deal. He told me that he would try to be good and winked at me while he was saying it.

I don’t even want to talk to him anymore. We had a dinner to go to for work last night and I was dreading it because I’m still not able to be social after my experience, and he was planning on bringing his wife. Based on my guilt for what I did in my relationship, I did not want to meet her. I felt bad for her and didn’t want to socialize with her based on what I know about him. I had asked him before-“how would your wife feel about you having these affairs? Do you have an open marriage or something? He said, “no we don’t and she would be devastated.

Prior to all this conversation and revelations from him over beer, he had offered me free help moving into my new place. I have since decided to pay the money to hire a truck and some movers because I don’t want a sociopath in my house or touching my stuff!

Btw, Aussiegirl, I still have a little PTSD left-no fibromyalgia but I do have a 50lb weight gain. I am seeing my doc to find out what the problem is. Things it could be: my thyroid, my stress levels, my lack of productive sleep, vitamin D deficiency, my nutrition, or any combination of the above

Ox Drover


TOWANDA!!! and good for you. This guy was telling you his tale and trying to set you up for an affair, but one that you would know from the beginning was just that an AFFAIR and not a Relationship outside of that because he “loved his wife”

My P-x BF had had that kind of cheating relationship with his x wife for 32 yrs until she caught him and kicked him out, he had multiple affairs on-going with multiple women all the time and the same thing “I can’t leave my wife” of course as soon as she kicked him out these women wanted him to marry them. He wanted to keep them as a harem, but wanted a “respectable” wife to keep them in line—I was the candidate for the “respectable” wife—until I found out what was going on. THANK YOU JESUS!

You are getting PRETTY DARNED SMART GIRLFRIEND!!! You are so right, you do not need the “help” of a psychopath there is NOTHING TO BE GAINED in a relationship or even a superficial “friendship” with a psychopath–you may have to interact with him some at work, but keep it COOL, DISTANT AND PROFESSIONAL. You can’t go through life without encountering them, any more than I can walk in the woods without coming across the snake or skunk here or there, but the trick is to keep them at enough distance and RECOGNIZE THEM FOR WHAT THEY ARE that you don’t get bitten or sprayed with their stink.

You got the “silver skillet award” for spotting psychopaths for this [email protected]!! GOOD FOR YOU!!! GREAT [email protected]!!!!


Oh boy…..just looked in my inbox.

After no contact for 4 weeks he pops up on here saying ‘please look at my photos’ (attached)

Just as if nothing had happened!

I had the police on him a month ago after he came up here pushing me around.

And now it’s as if nothing had happened and he’s asking me to look at stupid photos of him!!!

As if I would want to?!! Sent them straight to the re-cycle bin.

I know it’s a hook, he’s trying to worm his way back, but I won’t rise to the bait – no way


You can block his email address and his phone number too!


Candy, I wonder is totally right. When mine dumped me and then still tried to involve me in drama, I blocked his his home phone, work, cell, and email for a year. He doesn’t try and contact me anymore. It never ceases to amaze what nerve these guys have. I mean really dude, get a clue!

Ox-that’s exactly what he may be trying to do. Part of my problem is really my low self esteem. When I used to come on here, you used to lecture me about it all the time. It made susceptible to the N/P the first time and it makes me think about what it still does to make this dude think that he can invade my life. Even though I’ve learned so much, I still am amazed that he could just sit there on a bar stool and tell me all this stuff and think that I would react how? That line of thinking makes no sense to me at all. The thing that bothers me is that I don’t see him revealing those things to any other people that we work with. Why me? What kind of vibe am I putting out? Is it my low self esteem? I automatically think-I am overweight and I don’t look good and he is really fit. He wouldn’t be attracted to me. Is that what makes him think he can get away with this with me? That’s why I’m confused!

Ox Drover

Dear nolongernaive,

I think sometimes we have this sign on our foreheads that is “INVISIBLE” TO NORMAL PEOPLE, but NEON to psychopaths “WELCOME PSYCHOPATHS, VICTIM HERE!” LOL Yes, I can “lecture you” but I am really LECTURING MYSELF TOO. LOL I have that same sign over my head! I think it is like a some sort of scent we give off that attracts them.

I wish I knew what it was I would stop it, or wear some kind of perfume to cover it up, but there is something about us that they find “attractive” as a potential victim.

I know in the wild lions and other predator cats will make “lunges” at a herd to make the herd run when they are not really trying to catch a particular animal, just to see when the herd runs WHICH ones are limping or which ones appear slower or sick or old or young and unsure on their feet. Then they will TARGET those specific animals that have some sort of limp or something that will make them easier prey.

I think part of it, and looking at what you said he told you “over a beer”—to start with I am ASSUMING that you and he went alone for a beer and that you knew he was married. OK, I have male FRIENDS and my husband didn’t mind, and sometimes we did things together but my male friends KNEW UP FRONT that it was FRIENDSHIP not anything else so no problem…but I think maybe he was TESTING you there just to see if you would go have a beer with him. (You went to have a beer, so in HIS MIND, this probably meant that you MIGHT BE A BETTER TARGET for an affair than a woman who would have refused right off the bat and said “No, sorry I can’t go have a beer with you because you are married and I wouldn’t want to give someone who saw us together the “wrong idea” about our relationship as friends.”)

Then, he started telling you about the affairs he had had with other women. This was a “test” to see what your reaction would be to his DISHONESTY AND SEXUAL CHEATING. Did you say “That is a dishonest and hurtful thing to do to your wife” or did you say “well, I can understand how folks sometimes cheat” ???

In this case, because of your knowledge of psychopaths and their cheating and knowing how it hurts the wife (if she finds out etc) and how NO ONE WHO HAS MULTIPLE AFFAIRS REALLY IS ABLE TO LOVE OR SHOW RESPECT FOR A MATE then you let him know you didn’t approve of that so you FLUNKED his “test” of potential partners. Good for you BTW and it does take improved self esteem in order to stand up for what is right! So you have improved and gotten stronger and wiser! TOWANDA!!!! Good for you! I’m proud of you! (((hugs))))

I used to know a guy, not particularly good looking or anything, but he traveled a lot and he would walk down the street in a town and as he approached a woman coming the other way would look her in the eye and say “Hey, do you want to f_uck?” He said (and I believe him) that it was amazing how many women would take him up on it. Sometimes he would get slapped, but if he asked 100 women and got 1-2 that said yes, he was happy…so yea, that’s how he can sit there and ask those questions and tell you that stuff…he has nothing to lose. If you say yes, he gets laid, if you say no, he doesn’t care, he will just find some other woman, as far as he is concerned one woman is as good as another…


IWonder – Nolongernaive

Thanks – good advice.

He knows I will NEVER answer him – made that clear, and never have.

I keep him on there cos I know if he’s on the pute he’s not here! Does that make sense?!

It’s just…….I’m exasperated that he just says look at my pics – after everything that’s gone on, they just don’t get it do they.

I think his ‘current’ girlfriend is getting fed up of him and the novelty is wearing off so he thinks he can worm his way back here for Christmas.

If he comes he’ll have a very long and wasted journey cos I move out tomorrow.

Would love to have cctv to see the look on his face when he turns up and the house is empty.

Good luck with the doc.


Ox-I went to get a beer because initially it was supposed to be another coworker going with us-a married female whose husband is aware that she loves her beer. The sociopath is very “social” and he claims that his wife knows that he socializes with coworkers all the time. The big issue that I had was that he was pulling the wool over her eyes because she trusts him and that’s sad. The other female coworker ended up not going at the last minute. I thought about not going too but he really wanted to go and I wanted to find out if my suspicions were correct about him because I think he’s a predator. I was spot on about everything. I told him all about what I did with my ex and that is was persuaded to go against my morals for the first time and I was devastated hurt for doing it and it was the first and ONLY time that was EVER going to happen. I asked him if he knew how bad it hurts a woman to be cheated on and he got real quiet and I got no response. I went on about that for awhile and then just found that it’s obvious that he has no conscience. I told him that what he was doing was completely unacceptable and that he was a jerk for doing it. He doesn’t care. I finished my beer as quick as I could and told him that I really had to get home. I’m not afraid of him. I’m armed and proficient with the gun but I don’t care to associate with him other than working together on cases. It’s a waste of time and energy to try and convince him to see things my way. You can’t reason with a psychopath. I’m just relieved that my ability to read people is coming back and that will help me out in my career.

I was talking to a girlfriend from work when she was helping me move furniture and she made a comment about having the word crazy written on her forehead. Before she met and married her husband she was a magnet for crazy guys. I joked about having the word psycho written on my forehead with invisible ink, meaning only psycho guys are interested in me. I’m glad I came back here now because I am different and much improved from the last time I was here on the blog and I feel that I have more to add to these new people who are deep into the painful part of their circumstances. I really want to help people as much as I can and I am really excited about taking a class that I’m starting to venture into a different area of practice. I’m so excited for my life right now. I am moving out of my mold infested tiny slum apartment and got a dream place that is just like having my own house. I am just starting to say ok- I’m fat right now, but it’s not the end of the world. I am starting a whole new nutrition/exercise program after the first of the year and I am enjoying myself right now-getting more sleep and de-stressing.

I think you spoke to someone else on here on another thread about stress causing health problems. I’m a nurse like you and I couldn’t agree more.

Ox Drover

Dear nolongernaive,

GOOD FOR YOU!!!! Yea, I’m fat too, but they are EVIL and I can diet and lose the weight but they will be FOREVER EVIL! LOL

In fact, I am on a low sodium lower calorie diet and doing pretty well, I had gained 60 pounds over 6 years since my husband died and my sugar was going up a bit and my BP up a bit but now with the lower calorie diet and the loss of 10% of my body weight, the BP and the Blood glucose are normalized and the edema is going away with the lower sodium (AHA 1500 mg recommendation—I was probably actually eating 8-10K mg of sodium!) So I’m having to relearn to cook, and teach my body new ways with food, but I’m working on taking care of MYSELF now instead of giving 110% to everyone else and keeping NOTHING FOR ME!

GOOD for you, and I’m so glad that you came back! I’m glad that you are doing well and weren’t too turned off by my preaching at’ya! Sometimes we try to reach out to folks but they aren’t quite ready to receive the truth yet, and God knows I have BEEN THERE IN THAT SPOT, for decades I didn’t want to believe the truth about my psychopathic son, or how my egg donor had treated me, etc. but now I can face that UNHAPPY and painful truth and still go on! So can you! You’re getting smarter by the minute!

Take care of YOU and the stress will decrease, the health will improve and life itself will get better.

BTW there is a site called that is where I have a membership and it helps record your food/calorie intake and exercise/calories burned and gives great support. You can have “buddys” there and I am Ox Drover there so when you get ready for a NEW NUTRITIONAL PLAN (Don’t call it a “diet”) come on over there and join up, it is actually FUN and helps keep me “honest” in my eating by having to write it down! Glad to have you back here too…the more the merrier!


you’re absolutely right. none of it is ‘fake’ … as though we want to experience these terrible physical symptoms.
i’ve lost 26 so far … in 5 months. haven’t lost any in 3 weeks though. trying to stay on an even keel and not start up with uncontrolled eating.
i’m trying to find me. 28 months NC already. but i think about him less and less, and am starting to truly feel free.


Ox- I definitely wasn’t ready to receive a lot of “preachin” on here while I was here before. I came here a total mess and naive with severe PTSD and anxiety, fear, guilt, and mass amounts of ANGER and BITTERNESS. I learned so much about what I was dealing with but the anger and isolation and self pity was really getting in the way. I was full of self pity and only saw myself as the victim and was feeling very selfish, even though I was giving to everyone else but me.

I was so impatient-which is a huge flaw for me. I was hating my job, career, coworkers so much and trying to change careers and stressing over all the big things AND all the small things. Some things have happened since at work and I came out of myself. I got to a point here on lovefraud where I had learned SO much but then got to the point where I had to step back. My best friend was telling me that I needed to get away from the blog because I was getting in a rut and it was becoming even harder for me to leave it all behind me. I was just dwelling on the relationship too much. At that point I was stuck in bitterness and I was antagonizing people on here and made a lot of people very angry with me.

I ended up talking to my old boss and finding out that she didn’t want me to come back there until all the crap in the place got straightened out because there was a massive regime change. I also had an experience with a patient at work. I coded him all night in the cath lab in which I was the only RN and the docs made me run the code. I was scared to death. It was the middle of the night and I got called out for a man who went into ventricular fib while having sex. All night long, I pushed epi and atropine and did compressions and had a massive unresponsive seizing man on the table. I was angry because I just knew this man would NEVER make it and why did we continue all night long. Nobody codes someone for that long. Surprise to me-he lived. He went home and was playing golf and went right back to his life and yesterday I was once again his nurse when he came back in to PCI another vessel that we couldn’t get before.

I also started to realize that I am SO lucky to have a full time job with benefits and VERY high pay, when almost 10% of the population in this country don’t have jobs. Now I am doing my best to be positive everyday and not complain too much. Also, to help hold me over until I can become a police officer, I am taking the forensic nurse course to be certified as a Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner. I will finish at the end of February and will do clinicals and then sit for the exam. I will be able to get a job PRN in that area-doing rape exams, collecting evidence and being there for support for women who are experiencing this trauma. I have been there. I am strong and hopeful and no longer naive, and my former call sign on lovefraud was Erin1972. 🙂 I did take all the things you said to heart.:):):)


Candy-that is freakin awesome that you are moving. It will be awesome for your spath to come back and find you gone. TOWANDA!

Ox Drover

Dear ERIN/nolonger naive,

Your name didn’t “ring a bell” with me, but that doesn’t mean diddly because I have CRS pretty bad! LOL

Darling, I am SOOOO GLAD TO SEE YOU BACK HERE and to hear the SANITY in your voice! TOWANDA darlin’!!!!! You can’t know just how much joy that gives me to know you are okay. Believe it or not I have thought about you so much. When people come on here and then “disappear” especially ones who are OBVIOUSLY IN SO MUCH PAIN and you were definitely in pain, I worry (that’s just my problem, but I DO worry!) and so it is always wonderful when someone comes back and says “i’M DOING GREAT!”

I know that nursing can be STRESSFUL to the max, and running a code is always stressful, but I finally got to the point that I figured “I’m working on a dead person, so it can only get better”

YOU ARE fortunate to have a job with good pay and benefits for sure, with 10% of the folks looking for work not finding it. I think you will do well in the rape exams and counseling newly victimized people, because you have had experience with Ps and know how that feels and if a rapist isn’t a psychopath I don’t know what is!

Here on LF we reach our hands out to others who are may like you were, not able AT THAT MOMENT to grasp the care and love that is extended, but eventually, the feelings do get through to the person. I’m glad all my “lecturing” you did help in the end, and I am SO GLAD you are back!!! We need your voice of sanity and caring! (((Hugs)))) and God bless.


Oxy-thank you very much. I don’t what happened when I stepped back, but suddenly I knew how to deal with the coworkers and the toxicity there. I started being really nice instead of really serious/intense/non trusting Erin. Something just clicked. I actually took a trauma class at my spaths hospital a couple weeks ago and even went up in his ICU to visit my girls. I did stay in contact there and some of the gals recognized that I was the same old Erin and they know what he is. I had zero anxiety about the whole thing. I strutted in there just like it used to be my home and I didn’t see him.

It is true what you said earlier-I may be fat right now but at least I can lose weight and get fit and he will always be an EVIL, TOXIC, LOSER who will never change. I am even moving into my dream apartment on his side of the river. Why shouldn’t I have the things I deserve because we frequent the same grocery store. To hell with it all. Since my boss told me to wait til 2012 to come back to the police, I will be in the best shape of my life and totally debt free because I have the time and the means to do both. This move is going to be the most wonderful thing for me. It’s the place I’ve always wanted. I can exercise in my living room without people complaining that I make too much noise and be able to sleep and breathe without chronic fungal sinus infections from mold. I’m so excited about everything-including being able to come back here and encourage new people who are going through the worst of it now. I feel like I have something to offer without constantly dwelling on what happened to me and my old relationship. ((hugs to you too)) and God bless. He is blessing me right now because I no longer feel like he hates me for what I did. I am forgiven. I had to have a new name on here because the old one was for a different time and a different place and I think this one is fitting right now!


Erin72 – glad you have been taking care and learning about yourself (you did make a ‘grand’ exit. ;))

i am really glad that you are doing so well. i have wondered how you are doing.

one step


Onestep-thanks so much and I really hope that you are doing well too. I will be able to catch up on here a little bit! 🙂 I’m actually quite embarrassed about my exit! 🙂


but you owned it! immediately, and with clarity. looks good to me!


Hey Oxy, guess what-the at work socio that I told you about earlier just texted me on my phone. Were we right about his intentions or what? What the hell is a married man doing texting me on a Saturday night? I don’t HAVE to be nice and I’m not returning it. We had a work dinner last night and he texted-“hey girl, it was so great to see you come out with us last night”-freakin rat bastard!!!


nolongernaive –
“I’m so excited for my life right now. I am moving out of my mold infested tiny slum apartment and got a dream place that is just like having my own house. I am just starting to say ok- I’m fat right now, but it’s not the end of the world. I am starting a whole new nutrition/exercise program after the first of the year and I am enjoying myself right now-getting more sleep and de-stressing.”

Wow! You go girl! I’m so please for you and I just know that the changes you are making will keep you strong, because they are some of the same ones I made post-spath and I am getting stronger all of the time. (I’m only new here, but welcome back anyhow)

candy –

“Would love to have cctv to see the look on his face when he turns up and the house is empty.”

So glad you are in a position to move on and away from this creep. Hope it all goes smoothly for you and that you land softly at your new place.

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