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Genetically prone to cheating

People who have a particular gene, scientists have found, are more likely to cheat on a romantic partner.

Read The love-cheat gene: One in four born to be unfaithful, claim scientists on DailyMail.co.uk.

Link supplied by a Lovefraud reader.


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38 Comments on "Genetically prone to cheating"

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So this gene would make an individual have more liberal views AND be prone to cheating? And it makes someone twice as likely to cheat? Personally, it sounds like a load of rubbish to me. I don’t think “twice as likely” is statistically significant in my book.. considering all the other variables that could possibly affect whether one would decide to cheat or not. It’s so narrow an idea, because you have to take free will completely out of the question. If you cheat, it is a personal choice. No matter how strong your “urges” are, if that urge means more to you than keeping the trust of your loved one, that’s a personal issue. This is like Tiger woods relying on the “sex addiction” notion to somehow redeem his actions.. Keep in mind, I don’t think all cheaters need to be lambasted, if they are genuinely remorseful. Shit happens. However, no need to be looking for a “gene” to explain it all away. That’s misuse of science imho.

it’s like taking a gene and going, oh, this gene makes it twice as likely for people to like blueberries. Not only does it make it twice as likely for people to like blueberries, but also have less liberal views on use of pesticides on produce. Rubbish, right? Except liking blueberries doesn’t have those loaded associations so it’s less salient.

There is reliable evidence that some of the “personality traits” that make up the KIND OF PERSON who would “cheat” are genetic. There is a “gene” (or several) for people being more prone to “risky behavior” than other people, so that “gene” might be “TERMED” a “cheating” gene if the “risky” behavior was prone to be more sexual cheating etc.

What I am getting at is that though this particular article is “sensationalizing” the genetic link to “promiscuity” or “risky sexual behavior” there does seem to be some links between high risk taking and genetics, and other “typical “behavior of psychopaths, who are usually more apt to be HIGH RISK TAKERS.

Just as some people are more “prone” to be alcoholics because they lack certain hormones that process alcohol differently than for those that are less likely to become alcoholics….it is genetic but it doesn’t make them DO IT…it doesn’t EXCUSE them drinking either…they still have a CHOICE to drink or not. Frankly, psychopaths do have some genetic tendencies that make it harder for them to “bond” and to utilize oxytocin in their brains to attach to others, but they DO know right from wrong, and they have CHOICES in their behaviors, just like the “alcoholic” does. GENETICS may point the direction to some extent, but it does NOT force the person to go that direction in my not-so-humble opinion! LOL

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Interesting article because I just met a woman whose mom was bipolar among other things but so abusive that she ran away from home at age 14. She put herself through school and now has a wonderful family, Meanwhile her moms family is so ill, they have had 3 suicides.

As we were talking, I asked her about her fear of a genetic component being expressed in her 2 children. She was joyful when she told me “no chance, I was adopted”. She has total peace about having none of “their bloodline”. As a sidenote, she fears that she was stolen no adopted since her mom used to work in a nursery and is severally impulsive.

This made me wonder if there have been any controlled studies on the incidence of spath tendencies in adopted offspring. This survivors story was amazing and what struck me was her strong mental strength and character at age 14, after being in this very toxic environment.

Makes you wonder more about the impact of Nature vs. nurture…this rings true in my personal case as well since the crazymaking that was being inflicted on me backfired. He was the one that had the mental break in the end.

yes, nobody “made” them do it. A gene didn’t “make them” do it. They do it because they choose to do it. As Kathy Krajco once said, you sure as hell know one knows right from wrong when one puts up a show of “goodness” to cover up the blatant “badness” ( excuse my using the word “badness” lol. )

Robert Hare said on the brains of psychopaths,

“Its quite possible that the differences we see, and this would apply to many tasks, that we use in the study of psychology, it may that the differences are the primarily the response of differences in strategy. It may be very well be that they can perform the task reasonably well, but using different parts of the brain. This isn’t to say they can’t use the appropriate parts of the brain, simply that they DON’T.”
( you have to think about this a little bit to draw associations. Brain differences between normal people and sociopaths? Oh, the brain differences must have made them do it! But no… not necessarily. )

He says the quoted material here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaTfdKYbudk ( it’s the last bit )

And kathy krajco ( she is a gem, which is why I always quote her. ) says on the brains of psychopaths :

( link to article ) http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-brains-get-different.html

Excerpt ( by Kathy Krajco ) :

“So, let’s take a picture of your brain.

Oh how horrible! It’s different than a normal person’s brain. It is more “developed” in that area (= has more gray matter/connections).

Now we know why you gotta have all the milk in the world: your brain is malfunctioning.

NOT.

Your brain isn’t the cause of your need for all the milk in the world. Your need for all the milk in the world is the cause of your brain being different.

In other words, your habit of deliberately twisted thinking is what makes you need all the milk in the world every time you see something white.

It’s supposed to work that way. If it didn’t, you’d still be thinking at the level of a 2 or 3 year old. You wouldn’t be able to learn anything. You’d never make the connections between related ideas. You’d never get an idea from another idea. In short, you would be about brain dead.

And guess what? If, while you’re killing people to take away all their milk, you are repressing your human sensibilities, willfully not allowing yourself to feel any pity for them, forcing yourself to think instead in terms of cold-blooded logic “What is someone else’s suffering to me?” – if you do that, the part of the brain that houses your human sensibilities won’t get used much.”

In these examples i am slightly deviating from the original discussion on genes > behavior.. but as anyone should know, genes do not *determine* behavior. Sure, you may have a gene which makes you more likely to become an alcoholic, but just because you have the gene doesn’t mean you will become one. You make that choice yourself. It is deliberate. And comparing alcoholism to sociopathy is a bit of a stretch too, because sociopathy isn’t defined simply by an addiction, it is the basis for which every action is determined. A different “strategy”, as Robert Hare said.

One wouldn’t be able to blame *solely* the environment either.. there are millions of people in third world countries living in terrible environments.. you don’t see all of them becoming sociopathic. Child soldiers, and the like. They numb themselves for survival. Sociopaths don’t get that excuse, they numb themselves because they like to.

then determining a causal relationship for anything is difficult, and i think when articles like that are posted, they are more for shock value ( Like the association between ice cream and crime… when more ice cream is sold, the crime level is higher! Ice cream must cause people to become more aggressive! No… it is the heat that makes people want more ice cream, and also the HEAT that makes people more aggressive, or have less patience with others… it has an irritating effect )

Given with my saying this I don’t disagree that there is a genetic component ( though surely it can’t be said for all instances/cases ).. as in a genetic component which predisposes but does not make a person do anything. You always have a choice. Sociopaths are completely responsible for their actions. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Again, I went from genes ( original topic ) to brain structures.. but i would hope that the point I was trying to make was understood. I hope that wasn’t too much of a leap. Sorry if I seem all over the place.

( I understand this may be a somewhat heated topic. But isn’t nature vs nurture always somewhat? I respect everyones personal views. These are mine. )

Given, Krajco’s father AND sister were both N’s. ( narcissistic personality disordered ) So the genetic component cannot be ignored, but still, cannot be pointed to as the basis of their actions.

Dear Flowerpower,

Yes, there have been studies of adopted children (both identical twins with identical genes, and faternial twins, and other children of people who were known psychopaths etc) and there is definitely a correlation between genetics and psychopathy in identical twins with identical genetics but different environments. For a long time the incidence of psychopathy and conduct disorder etc in adopted kids was put down to “environmental” differences of the kids knowing they were adopted, but finally, the “politically correct” notion of “all kids are born a blank slate upon which environment writes” was proven hokum!

Just as the famous “fighting bulls” of Spain have been bred for centuries to be aggressive and pit bull dogs have been bred to be aggressive and beagles have been bred to be submissive etc. humans are mammals. While we are not “bred” to lines of different traits, none the less, with modern medicine we have learned that the tendency to depression and bi-polar, alcoholism and drug addiction and other “mental” problems are genetic. Some can be treated and controlled but some like psychopathy can’t really be successfully treated at least in adults.

Oxytocin “the bonding hormone” receptors seem to be decreased in psychopaths which would account for the lack of bonding in these individuals which might increase their tendency to not regard others as “important.”

I have raised and bred animals for my entire life and I’ve seen personality, aggression, and other traits passed on in various lines of various species— genetics are not just about eye color and hair color, there are lots of thins that are influenced by genetics, including our anxiety, depression, tendencies for mood disorders, and aggressiveness.

Actually there are several good articles here and there are many good research articles about on-going research into the genetics and brain chemistry of psychopathy being studied as we speak.

ps. there is also research that indicates that many psychopaths are ALSO bi-polar and/or ADHD. Having one doesn’t mean you can’t have multiple diagnoses. Add in a poor environment and 2-3 disorders and you have a person with some serious issues!

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Thanks Oxy. I know bipolar sufferers who are moral, productive people. In the case of my ex’s circles, “ruthlessness” , cunning and devaluation of WOMEN is admirable….along with a high regard for money, prestige and status. No I wasnt married to the mafia but in many ways it resembled that.

The value system plus a severely restrictive and punitive home environment,high expectations for “perfection” in every sense, spoiling in every sense and genetics created quite a conflicted person.

And there have been suicides and other mental tendencies in the family’s history. I am vigilant and watch for signs in our children. I do know that repeated conflict is a trigger..

Many people who are Bi-polar are productive and wonderful people, but I also know psychopaths who are bi-polar AND also ADHD (the Trojan Horse P who was sent to kill me had all 3 professionally diagnosed) I have a wonderful friend who is bi-polar and is a medical professional who with medication lives a wonderfully productive life—I know others who are aggressive and psychotic (hearing voices and seeing visions) criminals who refuse to take medicaiton because they “like” the “high” they get when they are manic, it is almost like a “free high” on drugs.

Other psychopaths don’t seem to have either ADHD or Bi-polar, my P son is one of them. My “uncle monster” (my egg donor’s brother) was alcoholic, and psychopathic and I also think bi-polar as well, though he was never professionally diagnosed with bi-polar. I saw signs and symptoms of that (in retrospect) as he would periodically go for days without sleep and would drink continually during those times, as well as the fact that he would do a great deal of his abuse during those drunken rages.

It is recognized that bi-polar is somewhat genetically passed on, as well as ADHD. In my own family, and in my sons’ father ‘s family there are high numbers of ADHD, psychopathic traits, and alcoholism (even in children who were not raised by their abusive parents).

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Agree CAmom. I am trying to teach my kids to avoid all trigger “temptations”. My ex has a sex addiction and that was started and promoted during his teen “playboy” days. I am teaching mine that sex can be addictive if it is used for pleasure. While that sounds stange, sex has become a “pasttime” and is such a trap for our youth.

sidenote-I was told the club foot tendency is not so much hereditary as environmental. But choose a sire with good strong feet. This from vets and farriers. I had a clubbed mare but did not breed her–Belgian cross.

Right now, horses are a dime a dozen because of the “kill ban” in USDA plants. I watched good horses the other day sell for $225 (well broken nice horses) and saw donkeys go for $17.50 and unbroken horses for $25, all went to slaughter in Mexico I am sure, so they will have a rough 2-day ride to Mexico where they will be put through the slaughter plant there (you can only imagine) so since there is a surplus of horses, I advise you NOT TO BREED YOUR MARE at all. Why create more horse flesh to suffer?

Even FANTASTIC horses with WONDERFUL bloodlines are going to slaughter in Mexico, or being turned loose on the highways of this nation. Please do not create another horse! If you want another horse, buy one, even the good ones are CHEAP as dirt, and any you buy will have a good home and not go to slaughter in Mexico. I am NOT against horses being used for meat, I just want them HUMANELY HANDLED and right now it costs more to coggins test one than it will bring on the open market, and feed is expensive so people are abandoning horses right and left to starve.

I also advise people not to breed pet dogs/cats for companion animals, when there are millions put down each year because there are no homes, and with the economy being what it is now more and more people are not able to properly care for their animals and are abandoning them or being forced to give them up.

Okay, that’s enough of my advertisement for animal welfare but you get the idea.

Flowerpower, I think sex should be a “bonding ritual between two people who love each other” but the psychopaths seem to think it should be a spectator sport, team sport or a tag-team match…LOL

Isn’t is amazing how many of us are animal lovers/carers? (Probably not, actually, when you consider that it was our kind and caring natures that got us hooked in with spaths and/or kept us there too long)

I was the President for a large animal welfare society in my state some years back. My own animals (all rejects, acquired as rescues) are all sterilised and properly contained within my land holding. Having stood many times in the “back room” of the animal welfare shelter assisting the vet to put down up to 200+ beautiful kittens surrendered by the public on any given afternoon for no other reason than that they were irresponsibly bred and there were no good homes for them to go to, I get really cross when people don’t fix their dogs and cats.

I used to have a strict no-kill philosophy, but after seeing so much pain and suffering in dumped and unwanted pets, I eventually became convinced that the first best outcome was a kind, loving, responsible new owner – and the next best outcome (if the first was not possible) was the “green dream”. At least there is no more pain, hunger or abuse.

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What a coincidence when I read this post I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry to be honest. I live in the UK and the daily mail and most other papers here love to sensationalise everything. You couldn’t put a book in there without them wanting to make it into some kind of story. I got approached by a journalist a couple of years ago after writing an ebook on cheaters which I wanted some publicity for before I wrote the book I have just written and the wanted a take on the story. My dad is a sociopath and they wouldn’t print the story below without some kind of “validation” from him about as to whether he had cheated or not. Last count he finally admitted to about 12 affairs of which 6 were with my mums best mates !.

Anyway the point is I never got a plug for the book and they came up with this headline “Is there a cheating gene” and focussed the whole story on my dad. Just like they would do if any writers were to appear on shows like oprah talking about psychopaths and so on. If you have ever read the article from Dr Robert hare and I quote

“And into the ethical and political realm — the realm of extrapolation, of speculation, of opinion — Hare will not step. He’s been asked to be a guest on Oprah (twice), 60 Minutes, and Larry King Live. Oprah wanted him alongside a psychopath and his victim. “I said, ‘This is a circus,’ ” Hare says. “I couldn’t do that.” 60 Minutes also wanted to “make it sexy” by throwing real live psychopaths into the mix. Larry King Live phoned him at home while O. J. Simpson was rolling down the freeway in his white Bronco. Hare says no every time (while his publisher gently weeps).”

Anyway for anyone that wants a laugh heres the post that the daily mail did on me

As for my dad he had a field day. He phoned up all his mates and loved all the attention and told them to buy the paper because he was now “infamous” even though the newspaper edition used the worst picture of him ever and it painted him as a cheating lethario but he was getting attention LOL and despite his swimming trunks he would normally have an all over tan as he loved to sunbath naked which is a whole other disgusting story in itself.

Pathetic LOL

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1036162/Is-adultery-gene-One-woman-traces-infidelity-patterns-shaped-life.html

My personal view is there are some genetics involved but just because we have parents who are sociopaths doesn’t mean we have to grow up like them! I have two brothers who thankfully haven’t grown up like my father. All of us has some learned habits but next thing they will be saying is there a “high sex drive Gene”

There is alot of misinformation about genes and genetics and yes there are many interesting articles on the net including a recent study by Jim Fallon who carries what he calls the “warrior gene” after finding out his own family are a bunch of serial killers but even though he carries it he hasn’t murdered anyone yet.

Just because our parents are cheaters and we may carry some gene doesn’t mean we will do it. Its called having a consience !

I read a Dr Oz posting that showed up on my facebook page that said that Narcissism is no longer going to be considered a disorder-has anyone heard anything about that?

Dear nolonger naive,

They are just changing around the terminology mostly, but the Narcissistic (SEPARATE) PD will not be listed separate from the other personality disorders and personally I think it is a SUB-set of psychopathy anyway, rather than a separate one. I don’t think you can be highly narcissistic and NOT be a psychopath….there are still a lot of arguments and semantics over what to call them and just what is a symptom and what isn’t and at what level and so on, it will take another 10-50 years to sort it all out I think.

Thanks no ordinary, just why SOME of us develop consciences and others don’t even with pith-poor and abusive backgrounds Plus the genetics, is a mystery for sure, but the identical twins raised apart in adoptive homes show that in one twin is a P there is a 50-80% chance the other one will be as well, that’ speaks pretty highly to the role of genetics.

I truly beleive that we are what we are. We are born with our temperaments. Yes, environment can definitely change our “bad genes”. But, the problem is that if a psychopath is born, and the parent(s) are psychpaths, then they are raising the children wrong (abuse, neglect) too!

For example, my xbf. His mother was mentally ill, (had 12 kids with 9 different fathers!), then abandoned all of them one day! He has no idea who his father is! Nor do the rest of the children. So, he was raised by a grandmother, who was an abusive woman who beat them and inflicted fear into themdaily! So, the genes get perpetuated,….more monsters are created! Its a cycle and it may not ever stop in that geneline!!!

He turned out to be a paranoid, selfish, pathological lying “warrior” (as he called himself).

Now, the sad part. He was TELLING me what he was, what he came from…and showing me by his actions, that he was really messed up. Yet “I” thought, somehow, that he could be “NORMAL”??????

Well, he did put on a good “mask”, became a “professional” ( cop) and was college educated, and “appeared” to be someone who rose above the adversity in his life.

NO, he was NOT ‘normal’. He never addressed his emotional issues…had two failed marriage, doesn’t believe in “therapy” or any psychological counselling….so he went through his life, being “impulsive” and fooling people, and hurting people.

How I thought that I could have a relationship of any kind with such a disordered person, I don’t know. He put on a good “show” ….had me fooled on a certain level ( my gut feelings were telling me all along not to trust him!)…and I allowed myself to be taken advantage of by a disordered person.

So, now its back to ME. What is ME gave him a chance to hurt me. Why “I” didn’t listen to my gut feelings about him all along.

Knowing his genetics and childhood, I can’t be angry at him for how he affected ME. I am more upset with myself for not listening to my gut feelings about him. And, I ask myself, “what in ME let him into my life?”

The answer is in the “betrayal bond” and the low self esteem I’ve had being raised by a sociopath mother.

Now, the question is, “what do I do about it?” How do I not get into situations like this again? I married one, divorced one, and then got sucked in by another one!

They say that we usually make the same mistake twice. There WILL NOT be a third time. I will work on changing MY neurons for abuse, before I ever get involved in a romatic relationship with any man again.

That, I promise to myself.

Oxy-I agree with you 100% on the DSM thing. Narcissism has to be a subset of psychopathy. That’s why I had to call mine N/P all the time. When you look at the checklists for each one, he had all the characteristics from both disorders. It’s just crazy how we come in contact with so so many in our daily lives. I think that the percentages of disordered people is underestimated.

2BHappy, Your post is PROFOUND WISDOM–TOWANDA!!!

Nolongernaive, I agree and my actual thought on it is that a “narcissistic PD” person is just a LOWER LEVEL PSYCHOPATH, it is just the first sign of the aggrandizement of self that makes other people NOT VALUABLE compared to the “self”—therefore it is okay to abuse them.

If you put The “psychopathic PD” on a scale of 1-10, the first “sign” I think would be that narcissistic/selfish person at “number 1” (the guy who eats the last piece of cake knowing you haven’t had any) on up to the Charlie Manson/Ted Bundy/Bernie Madoff at 10, who enjoys making others suffer.

tobehappy, I loved your post, and I really related to what you’re saying.

After I finally got the last sociopath out of my life (or thought I did, I actually identified a few more later), I realized that it was just going to be more of the same in the future. Or maybe worse because I was so broken down emotionally that I figured I was going to attract a bottom feeder who would just mop up what was left and finish me off. And I decided to figure out what was wrong with me — particularly what was wrong that I could imagine I loved this monster and continued to be involved with him for five years — AND FIX IT!

That decision turned out to be the greatest gift I ever gave myself. And the beginning of the first time in my life that I ever really made myself the priority.

Which was kind of surprising, because I was always trying to fix things in my life and trying to make the right decisions and trying to achieve something, despite being plagued with some psychological issues like depression and anxiety. But the reality was that I was always “about” other people. Whether it was trying to protect their feelings. Or investing in their lives in hopes that they would turn out to be the people I hoped they were. Or trading babying other people through their issues in return for them protecting and comforting me. Or being generous with them in hopes that they would see how that worked and be generous with me. My whole rule system was about all the ways I had to sell myself off in order to be accepted or even loved a little bit.

The really horrible and destructive relationship with the sociopath was, I realized as I discovered that I had not the faintest idea of how to counter his ability to live outside rules that I lived by, just a bigger and worse example of the way I’d lived my whole life. I was inviting abuse and exploitation. And I finally found a guy who was an expert at using both to further goals that had nothing to do with me.

You’ll love this. You know what he said to me while he was still in the seduction phase? That I was the most feminine woman he’d ever met. I was born in 1948. He was born in 1968. I thought it was about that, my socialization in the days of cinch belts, girdles and women who stayed in the kitchen. Woman who made an art form out of encouraging men in the belief that they were the masters of the universe, while the little lady kept his world running in the background.

And that was true, sort of. He wanted a woman who could be intimidated at the same time she was convinced that he needed her. A woman’s whose heart could be broken by thoughtless betrayals but who would stand by her man when he showed up with flowers and apologies. A woman who could be convinced that her future happiness depended on keeping him happy and helping him work out all his issues on her and her life. A woman who wanted to be needed.

My sister (who comes from the same family background and has her version of the same issues with men) once asked me, “Why do I keep getting involved with men who have Mommy issues?” It took years before I realized that it was becuase we were volunteering to be Mommy. And free therapist. And emotional voodoo doll. And neven-closing spigot of whatever kind of support they decided they needed next. Not even really thinking about checking out until so much damage had been done to our self-esteem and our careers and our bank accounts that we virtually had to start over every time we got rid of one of them. And start over only when after we’d spent an ungodly amount of time licking our wounds and trying to get back on our feet.

Well, I’m ranting here. And all I really meant to say was welcome to the wonderful path toward the exit from serial victimhood. I wrote a series of essays here on LoveFraud called “After the Sociopath, How Do We Heal?” They’re written from the assumption that we probably have earlier issues that made us vulnerable to these people. You might take a look at the first three or four to validate what you’re going through. (My name is on the list of authors in the skinny column at the left of the page.)

Warm best wishes and I look forward to reading more of your posts —

Kathy

Oxy…(I saw a license plate that said “Oxy” going thru the Lincoln Tunnel last night! lol…thought of you.)

It really isn’t about THEM anymore for me. I KNOW what they are….DISORDERED…whether Sociopath, Borderline, Bipolar, etc…..

Its about ME now. I built myself up in the past three years during each break up, but obviously not enough to stop allowwing myself to go back for more abuse.

THIS IS IT now. Enough is enough. I am FREE now. Now its up to me to change.

Kathleen, I love the part of your post about exiting serial victimhood. That is what I did finally and it feels liberating and exhilarating at the same time. Working on my self esteem is THE key. I may be overweight right now but I am so lucky for a lot of other reasons. I can always lose it and I’m working on it, but the ex socio will always be a toxic,evil, loser-and I am peaceful and content for the first time in years. I want everyone on lovefraud to feel this good! 🙂 🙂

Dear Kathy,

I love it!!!! Great post above! There have been some profoundly healing articles and posts here lately. The one I did on 1001 Things I did wrong is so true too, and I bet we both could list at least 999 of the SAME things we did wrong. Thanks for listing some of them out! (((Hugs)))) I’m SO glad you are back posting the last few days, dang I miss you when you are gone!

nolongernaive, you know you’re going to called on this overweight thing.

Overweight says who? You are the perfect weight for what you’ve beening doing. Learning to understand and protect your boundaries. Weight is insulation against the cold and upholstery against the sharp corners of life. It’s a personal pantry to keep us going when times get tough. It’s a way to get more grounded and demand more space when we need time to process. And it’s evidence the you’ve been self-comforting which is a good thing.

You are a beautiful example of a person who’s been healing. The weight serves a lot of purposes. And you might consider loving it for all those reasons, rather than using it as something to dislike about yourself.

I read some wonderful things recently about how we are not our bodies, but our bodies are the vehicles we are given to support and surround and nurture our spirits. Your body has been helping you through this transition. And though it might not seem like the best thing (until you think about it), it is also a message to the outside world that you are not volunteering to serve anyone else’s fantasies, you want to be loved for who you are. Anyone who criticizes you for it is showing their own prejudices and the limitations of their ability to support you as a real person, not a Barbie doll. And it’s nice to know about these things before you get further involved with them.

When you’re interested in more active engagement with life, you’ll get more active. You won’t have to beat yourself up about anything. It will just happen.

Meanwhile take your clothes off and get in front of a mirror and think about how Rubens would just drool over you. And he was a gorgeous man, cultured, hardworking, wildly successful and with two great marriages (his first wife died). Don’t be intimidated by the “rules” of the fashion industry. There are lots of versions of beauty and there is nothing more magnetically appealing than the self-confident glow that comes from liking yourself exactly as you are.

Sending the kind of big hug that wouldn’t be nearly as much fun if you were skinny —

Kathy

THANK YOU, Kathleen…HUGS

Last year when I went through the paralyzing shock that he was being unfaithful, and I unraveled the confusion, and started to heal and move on…I went back to the insanity.

The second time I went back, due to the difficulty I had breaking the “bond” with him…(betrayal bond), I had a song, by Leona Lewis “Happy”….(which is where I got my name here! lol)…and now my song is by Beyonce “LISTEN”…

It says it all ..where I’m at right now. I AM moving on now. I don’t know how to…but I know what I CANNOT do…what will set me back.

I am taking care of me…again…more and more. Listening to music to give me strength…eating right…talking to my sister who totally understands….spending time decorating with my girls…and reading posts on here.

Last year, I not only read your posts on “healing” …I took notes and read them over and over.

I came a long way, and now my journey to find peace and inner strength and self love continues.

Thank God for you and others on here..the support is priceless!

Kathleen-thanks. I do think that the fat was insulating from hurt. I realized something though when talking to a friend. We were talking about this married socio guy that we work with who admitted to me that he cheats on his wife. He has taken to falling over himself trying to help me out and do favors for me since I am a single chick. My friend said that he is trying to wear you down and get you into an affair-like the others in his life. I always thought, no-I’m 110lbs overweight and he is super physically fit, so he’s not interested in me. That’s when I realized that these guys will screw anyone and they use your low self esteem against you. I was the other woman with my ex and he was able to pull the con because he used my low self esteem against me. He flattered me so much about me being the most thing he’d ever seen. I am SO ashamed that he pulled me in that way and it won’t happen again.
I told Oxy in an earlier post that I had a beer with him one night after work. Another co worker was supposed to be there and cancelled. I still went because I wanted to know if he really was what I thought he was. That’s when he admitted to all the cheating on his wife. I don’t know why he had the nerve to think that I would think that all that is OK. Anyway, he texted last night-on Saturday, when he is home with his family-totally inappropriate. Needless to say, I didn’t answer it.

I see your point in what you’re saying. The only thing is that since I am 110-120lbs, it is holding me back from the career that I want and it is also putting my health at risk. I am a nurse and I know that it puts me at risk for cancer and diabetes. I also have a back injury from moving a 400lb patient and my job requires me to wear a lead apron all day that adds almost 20lbs to my weight. My joints and feet hurt so bad from the pressure. I also have to get clothes in the fat girl section now and that’s really hard. I also have to pay more for health insurance since I’m overweight. I appreciate that I was comforting myself and insulating myself from abuse but I am trying to become a cop as soon as I get fit and pay off my bills and wearing a size 42I bra is not at all conducive to wearing a bulletproof vest. I feel almost completely healed now and I want my self esteem back. I don’t need the fat anymore.

Dear nolongernaive, I laughed at the “size 42 I” bra, LOL I can relate to that for sure! I’m “only” 60 pounds over weight, well actually now 39, but I finally GOT SERIOUS about my weight gain and about the high blood sugars and high blood pressure when my feet started to swell. Don’t know if you read what my cute and SLIM internist told me though, she said “Well, do you think it might be your sodium?” I said “Nah, COULDN’T be the high sodium, I’ve eaten salt out of the shaker since I was a kid!” She said “WELL, YOU’VE NEVER BEEN THIS OLD BEFORE!” LOL

Don’t you hate it when they are RIGHT!? I wanted to gobsmack her off the stool–but she was right, of course! I got on the American Heart Association web site and looked at the lower sodium recommendations and I’m having to relearn how to cook and eat, and calculate sodium, but with a HEALTHY calorie restricted diet (1200-1600 calories) and sodium intake of 1500 mg or less, I am losing weight, feeling better, normalized blood sugars, and blood pressure without any medication.

I am taking care of MYSELF NOW! It wasn’t like I didn’t KNOW what I should have done, but I was in denial about THAT PROBLEM while I was dealing with the other ones. It is easier to take care of 1-2 problems at a time, and when you have a bunch of them to address you can’t focus all your energy on every one at ONCE. So I think you are doing well to get to where you are now, so when you are ready, you can focus on the weight issue and I know you will and will succeed in doing it.

I quit smoking (one thing I focused on until I got it done) now the weight and sodium and that is becoming a LIFE STYLE CHANGE not just a “diet!” I’m starting to feel some renewed self confidence and pride in accomplishing taking care of me!

Oxy-I get how you feel on that. I love what your doc said. Now that the relationship part is resolved, it will be easier to lose weight. My stress levels are way down and I’m starting to sleep better. The doc put me on appetite suppressant pill for awhile but I felt crappy on it and I quit and I didn’t really lose weight because I didn’t want to eat at all, yet I was feeling so hypoglycemic all the time. My ankles are swelling too. I’m not getting enough water in. I’m going back to the doc after Christmas to get a thyroid panel cuz I am symptomatic of hypothyroid. After Christmas I’m starting the exercise weight program that I bought last January and couldn’t use. I was making too much noise in my second floor apartment and it was bothering people. I am also walking in the 10K for the police department fundraiser on the 18th. Two years ago, before the spath, I ran most of it. On 4/1/08 I also quit smoking and ballooned up in the weight and just got bigger and bigger. Part of it was depression right after the breakup. Since my emotions feel great now, I am excited to start working on my fitness. I don’t thing about is so much as weight/diet but I can’t run after bad guys when I’m like this and I need to get of the boobs. Congrats on quitting smoking too. I quit for the spath and it was the only good thing that came out of the relationship!

one/joy_step_at_a_time

nolonger – i read an article by marianne williamson about weight. she has a new book out about food and weight. i am not a marianne williamson fan to say the least, but what i read really touched me (so much so that i wasn’t able to do a writing exercise she suggested…it freaked me out. but i know i will circle back around to it, after my internal system calms down a bit.)

one-I’m no familiar with her at all. I’ll have to look her up. I read a great book by Jackie Warner, my favorite trainer, called “This Is Why You’re Fat”. It was good. I’m going to get the armband called bodymedia that they where on the biggest loser. It gives you all sorts of info about your calorie requirement and how much you burn. etc. and it also monitors the quality of your sleep. I’m going to look up Marianne Williamson.

The sociopath that abused me physically and emotionally and emptied out my bank accounts is a Methodist preacher. The way our situation was revealed to me was through his cheating ways. He dated several women even while we were married and dared me to say something. I was scared to talk about it because he would threaten divorce or say something he was going to do to the children or just get out of control with his anger. I don’t understand why a sociopath has a tendancy to want several women at the same time. Can someone explain that to me?

ME! ME! PICK ME! I KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT ONE!
(Skylar raises her hand and waves it frantically)
Everything they do is about winning, but not winning fair. Only winning by cheating is fun. They keep a score board in their stupid little heads and they keep track of how much they gave vs. how much they get.
Example, you might not approve of this, but I often gave my exP permission to stray. From the beginning I actually encouraged it. I’m not that stupid anymore, but I wanted to be sure he was happy (it’s more complicated, and convoluted than that, but you get the picture) For the last 15 years we didn’t share a bed.
He swore he had no interest in anyone else. But he was cheating the whole time, from day one. Why didn’t he just tell me? BECAUSE IT WOULDN’T BE CHEATING.
Remember the score board? He counts that as a win for him a lose for me. It’s a game to them and that’s how it’s played. Every time you believe a lie, that’s another score. When they make you show emotion, that’s a big score.
They are obsessed with getting more than they deserve because they think they deserve it all for being so smart and being ABLE to cheat. When you ask them WHY did you do it, they say, “Because I can.” That proves to them that they are superior. Their little fragile egos need that proved to them over and over again. As soon as the game is over, they need more proof. More women, more cheating.
So you can see the circular logic:
they cheat because they can, they can because they are superior, they are superior because they cheat…

And it’s all fun and games till they get hurt! Then watch the wailing, anger and hatred come out! Lately I’ve been really observing people around me at work. The woman who just “slimed” me asked for me to be “friends” with her on facebook…lol Why can’t she be “friends” with me now, here in real life? Because she wants to find out about me to use info against me I think. I don’t trust people anymore.

Hi Ana,
Oh yes, once you cause a narcissistic injury: There will be blood!
How did she slime you?
It’s hard to trust anymore for me too. The red flags are our first line of defense, but they’re everywhere.

one/joy_step_at_a_time

the first time i pushed back against the sock puppets, a howl rang out. of course, i didn’t know they were sock puppets at the time – i thought they were shitty friends and family – but boooy did she get nasty. i put up with it for about 2 months from one of them, and about 2 seconds from the next. you know, if she hadn’t howled and snarled she could have strung me on longer..but then, they are not necessarily able to maintain the con when the n. wound becomes more important.

that’s an interesting dynamic – that switch that flips between win win win (because they are being successful at conning), to being wounded and lashing out when they feel they are not successful at the con. why does it tip? when does it tip? what’s the dynamic?

one/joy_step_at_a_time

from the article at the beginning of this thread – ‘In cases of uncommitted sex, the risks are high, the rewards substantial and the motivation variable ”“ all elements that ensure a dopamine “rush”.’ so , they are low in dopamine……can’t tell you the way the sock puppets went on about needing dopamine to literally be able to live.

so, she knows a bit about herself. never said she was stupid…just evil.

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