By Ox Drover
After reading Steve Becker’s article yesterday, I commented that most of the articles here on Lovefraud that could be entitled “1001 Things I Did Wrong in Dealing with a Psychopath” were the ones that applied most to my own dealings with them.
That was meant as a joke, but after I left that comment for Steve, I got to thinking about how right-on it was, joke or not, because I have done so much wrong in dealing with these people. I got my self deeper and deeper into trouble, doing the wrong things in interacting with them. Not that I was intentionally doing something mean or “wrong” per se, but I didn’t make choices that led to positive outcomes in dealing with the psychopaths in my life.
One of the reasons I did 1001 things wrong was that I didn’t know what I was dealing with. I thought I was dealing with people who had good intentions toward me, just as I had good intentions toward them. Boy, was that a wrong thing to assume. But because I assumed this error in fact about their intentions, I tried to “be reasonable” with them. That sure didn’t work. They broke their word to me time and time again. It took me a long time “to get it through my thick skull,” as MaryJo Buttafuoco said in her book, and then, when I did get it through my thick head that “Person A” couldn’t be trusted, I didn’t “generalize” that knowledge to other people who also broke their words to me over and over and over again.
Learning to generalize
Even animals can learn to generalize. A friend and I trained steer, getting them used to “something that rattled.” It didn’t matter what rattled; we would use plastic milk jugs with rocks in them, and tie those jugs to their tails so that every time they took a step, this “rattling monster” attached to them would make noise and follow them. For a little while they were scared and ran from it, but eventually they got the idea that the “rattling monster” wasn’t going to be outrun by them (it always kept up), and it wasn’t actually going to hurt them. Eventually they decided anything that rattled and made noise was harmless.
With one set of young steers my friend trained though, if you got them used to a white jug with rocks in it, and they weren’t afraid of it any more, if you used a yellow jug, they would go back to SQUARE ONE PANIC AGAIN, with each tiny change in the “monster.” They didn’t “generalize” very well and were always hyper-alert and on guard. He eventually got them so they were “dynamite proof,” so he could take them out in public without being afraid they would panic at the first sound they weren’t used to, or the first loud retort from a fire cracker, but he and I both thought for a long time they might not ever generalize enough to be safe from panicking and running away out in public.
Abusive behavior
I think in a way I also didn’t “generalize” the abusive behaviors of the various psychopaths I encountered. When a boss would be dishonest and verbally abusive to me, I was upset and “panicked” at the unexpected behavior, trying to figure out how to not get hurt, but when a relative would do this same kind of behavior I, again, panicked and didn’t realize that the “rattle” was just the same kind of “monster” that I had encountered with the other psychopath. Of course I didn’t realize then that the psychopathic “monsters” had a name or that their lack of empathy and their damage was definitely destructive, unlike a milk jug with a few rocks in it.
I not only tried to be “reasonable” with the psychopaths, but I also tried to placate them, to make them see, by being extra nice to them and not “bowing up and fighting back,” that I wasn’t trying to hurt them. I wanted to be “friends” and get along.
Of course, when a prey animal tries to get along with a predator animal we know what happens, don’t we? The prey animal gets the worst end of the deal. Yep, I did get the worst end of the deal trying to “make nice” with the psychopaths, but again, I didn’t learn that a psychopath is a psychopath is a psychopath is a predator! Rather than generalize this hurtful behavior to a class of people, I saw each one as an individual person with “reasons” and “excuses” and the “potential to change” and “see the light” when there was no chance that they were going to have any empathy, much less sympathy, for the pain they caused me or anyone else. They didn’t give a hoot how badly they hurt me as long as they got what they wanted.
Wanted to get along
I also didn’t really see what it was that they actually wanted. I didn’t want to cause anyone any pain, I wanted to love people and get along with them and share good things and help folks out. This is what I thought that everyone wanted. What they actually did want, however, was to control me, humiliate me, and to get me to provide them with their own twisted idea of a relationship—all take on their part and all give on mine.
Just like the hyper-alert steers, I didn’t feel comfortable, and was always jumpy, expecting something to hit me, but I wasn’t sure where it would come from, so each time a psychopath lied to me, stole from me, took advantage of me, I was totally surprised again and again.
Eventually that young pair of steers got to where they were not surprised by anything in the way of a loud noise and they calmed down and became a reliable pair of working steers (oxen). But it was only because they learned to move from the individual to the general concepts of what would or would not hurt them. They learned that a little yappy dog running at their feet was not a danger, but that a large aggressive dog was something that they should kick at or hook at with their horns. They learned that the sound of a fire cracker or a car back firing, or a cannon shooting at a historical reenactment, wasn’t going to hurt them and they didn’t need to pay it any attention. They learned to distinguish between harmless noises like people yelling or laughing and their drover saying “get up” and meaning it!
I’m not sure why these particular steers were so difficult to train. Perhaps it was because the breed was the wilder Spanish cattle from Mexico whose ancestors that had not jumped every time there was a noise in the brush had been taken out of the gene pool by the wolves, coyotes and mountain lions, so only the “jumpy” ones were left.
Changed my response
I’m also not sure why I didn’t generalize from the abusive behavior I endured over and over, or change the failed attempts to get it to stop by doing repeatedly something that had not worked. Someone once said, “insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” I sure did enough of that for two lifetimes. Now I have changed the way I respond to abusive behavior. I am learning to distinguish the difference between “harmless rattles” and “real threats” from predators.
I have made some general “rules” to guide me in my differentiation of what is “harmless” and what is “threatening.” First off, it depends on how close to me the threat is. A rattle snake at 10 yards from me is no threat at all. I know he could hurt me if he was closer, but I will not let him get close enough to strike me, so I don’t have to fear him. If that same rattle snake is 3 feet from me, I take a different view of the potential for harm from the same snake, and react in a different way than I do to the one who is 30 feet away.
If a person who is not “close to me” lies to me, it probably isn’t going to be much of a danger to me, unless it is a big business deal. I don’t fear that lie from someone I don’t really have any connection with, I just notice (like with the rattle snake at a distance) that the person is dishonest, I don’t want him to get closer to me.
If a person who is “close to me” lies, that has a much bigger potential for harm to me, both emotionally and otherwise. Therefore I will move away from that dishonest person, put some distance between me and them so that if they do strike, they won’t be close enough to hit me or do any significant damage.
Threat or benign
Once I have determined that a person, animal, or object is a potential threat rather than a benign creature, I will keep a wary eye on it. I won’t make excuses for the potential damage, and once it has tried to hurt me, it won’t have another chance. I no longer trust anything or anyone without assessing the potential damage that could be done.
Cynical? No, I don’t think so, just cautious. I don’t venture into the world like there are no dangers out there, no evil people. I do know now that there are some evil creatures in the world, some potential threats to my life, sanity and health. But I no longer walk in terror, because I have realized what the evil creatures are. I am no longer terrified of the “rattling milk jugs,” but I give a wide berth to the “poison snakes.”
I’ve finally personally learned from the “1001e things I did wrong in dealing with psychopaths.”
Oxy,
I think I am a DEAF cow. I can’t hear the rattling that should alert me to danger.
I have learned to treat everything as a possible danger. I have stopped being spontaneous.
I lie. Mostly by ommission b/c what happened in my misery years is not for public discussion. But by withholding, I create an image that isn’t true, and truthfully I WANT that image b/c telling the truth changes how people treat me. They do not respect me if I tell them I left an abusive marrige. I lose business, clients, income, opportunities. I am judged unless I lie. They don’t give me credit as a victor over bad circumstances. They see me as tainted and I guess they don’t want to be associated with such drama. So I have learned to lie. (I don’t lie about who I am or my character and I do what I say I will do.)
Since lying is normal (not withstanding Spaths and their victims), how do you discern acceptable lying (which all people in society do – “oh you look so young for your age!”) – vs red flag lying?
I’ve been working on trying to hear the rattles. Funny that all I come up with is a funny feeling, that something is off, but I can’t put my finger on it. That’s as close as I come to early ID of possible trolls.
Oxy this is one of the best articles written by you yet — who the heck are you anyway? 🙂
You live on a farm. I live in the City. I have been a city girl all my life.
Do we have anything in common. I would say so but only through the the miracle of the internet. Some people say it has destroyed society but I am saying that it helps people connect and allows people to speak their minds. I want everyone to write into Oprah as I have. let’s shine a light.
cheers and peace “mother bear”
Velveeta
Thank you velveeta! (((hugs)))
Katy, you may indeed be “deaf” and I think sometimes we are deaf to that “rattlesnake’s” warning rattle, or because we live Velveeta have been raised in the city and don’t understand that the “rattle” means something dangerous IS NEAR….it is sort of that we are CONDITIONED to not pay attention to the rattle of a rattle snake or know it is dangerous.
My son D read this article this morning after it went up on LF and he was laughing at it ( he usually does laugh at my articles, but in a good way) He was laughing at how I said that I handle a danger up close in a DIFFERENT WAY than one that is further away. He was laughing at where I said I would “move away” from a closer up danger, and he said “OR KILL IT!” LOL And he’s right, there are times the proper response to a danger is to kill the critter that is going after you. We aren’t allowed to kill humans unless they are trying to kill us FIRST, so we have to give them the “first shot” and that doesn’t seem fair sometimes, but with other critters, just the THREAT of the danger is enough to make me chop their heads off. Poison snakes don’t come around here except at the risk of their lives—and yea, I know that in the wild they may be beneficial, but around my house, the risk is too great–I’ve seen poison snake bites and I do NOT want one.
Son D also read Steve’s article and he said I KNOW THAT KID! He works with Boy Scouts as a counselor and he see kids just like “Harold” 150 times a year—some of them never change, and some are just “arsehole kids” that will more or less grow out of their bad attitudes. Son D thinks that of the younger kids like Harold that maybe 25% of them will at least “become human” by the time they are 20. LOL
Son D also said that my comment about I “didn’t know why” I kept repeating over and over the same mistakes wasn’t true, he said I DID know, and it was because like a young calf being trained from birth to do the bidding of the drover, and to obey without question or rebelling no matter what it is asked to do, or how it is abused, that I had been CONDITIONED from birth to comply and not question authority, and I think he’s right there.
The steers that were so difficult to train were not started in training until they were 6 months old, so that made them more difficult to condition as well. They were wild to start with. I was trained like we usually train steers, from BIRTH. Conditioned when I could not resist and had no other ideas about what was okay or not okay.
BUT I can’t entirely “blame” my lack of learning on that early conditioning though I am sure it had something to do with it. I have a much more sophisticated brain than those steers do, so I need to use it to learn to generalize about threats, to go from the specific to the general concepts, and to learn that if PLAN A doesn’t work, then doing it again isn’t going to work either, so maybe I might need to move on the PLAN B!
I’ve been guilty too many times of trading one bad situation for another, and getting rid of one Psychopath out of my life, only to embrace another one in another capacity or relationship.
Now, I am seeing the similarities in the psychopaths, seeing the PATTERNS of bad behavior and realizing, “Hey if person A lies and they hurt me, ,then if person B lies, they MIGHT HURT ME” DUH? What ya think?
KatyDid,
You asked about “lying” and that you felt you were lying by not telling others about your past abuse—I don’t feel that there is an OBLIGATION to tell anyone your life history in order to do business with them as a client or boss or neighbor or anything else.
Yes, I agree with you, too many people do not see you as a valid person if you have been abused and they INVALIDATE your humanity, your suffering, and your value—WHY? Not sure but your observation about SOME people’s attitude I think is right on.
To me that is why LF is valuable, because WE DO GET IT, and we do not invalidate your suffering, or blame you for it.
Lying? I don’t think you ARE lying if you reply to a social question of “How are you today?” and you reply “Oh, fine, how about you!” First off–that question is a SOCIAL GESTURE NOT a real question wanting information—your response is an EXPECTED SOCIAL GESTURE in response to a GREETING RITUAL between two people who really don’t know each other well.
Now, if someone you love says “How are you today KatyDid?” that may be a REAL QUESTION wanting REAL INFORMATION, and your reply would be a REAL ANSWER not a “social gesture”. So you might say, “I’m pretty depressed today, thanks for asking.”
So responses to social “gestures” I do not think are “lying”—
And that includes the “do these pants make my butt look big?” LOL My son would reply, “are you wanting the truth or do you want me to say NO?” LOL Or he might say, “REALLY, they don’t.” if he meant it. So he tells me the truth either way and I accept what he says. To the first response, I may say, “I think they DON’T make me look bigger, and besides that’s all I have to wear!” LOL
While you might like it if more people would validate that “YEP, YOU HAD A BAD TIME AND WERE TREATED UNFAIRLY” frankly I think most people would rather not care.
I read an article in a London paper the other day about how an elderly man had fallen on the side walk and lay there in a busy street for 5 hours and people walking around him, stepping over him, and NO ONE STOPPED TO HELP. Does that make me sound cynical about people’s “caring factor?” Maybe it does, but I think basically at least 50% of the people are on the UNCARING side of the average in the bell curve. (average = mean, or the middle of the curve where 50% are below and 50% above.)
So, don’t beat yourself up for “lying” and don’t confuse LYING with “social responses” which are just RITUALS like two dogs sniffing each others arses! (((hugs)))
Great article Oxy! (as usual)
You are an expert on “dealing with psych/socio paths!
Only those who has lived through it know what it is really like!
The only way to “deal” with these monsters..is to LISTEN to your “GUT” feelings from ‘hello’ and RUN from them and do NOT deal with them!
They are SO convincing, and so good at lovebombing and the pity ploy….that they will confuse you and make you think that YOU are crazy!
When I think back of my most recent experience with a S/P, and how I gave him 3 chances…(broke up with him and let him back three times)….before I finally said “Enough!”…..
I wonder why I didn’t listen to my gut feelings each time, which were screaming at me…”He’s a phony!”
I am smart, experienced and wise, yet I was SO confused by this one….because I was so “bonded” to him…(“seduced by him”), and after 5 months of NC each time, I always went back. I wanted to believe that he was being honest . The good was so good…but the lying and deception was the worst thing ever.
And it never stopped.
I finally confronted him, told him, without anger …only hurt, that what he did was so hurtful and that he is NOT a decent man , but a liar and cheater and he lost his “best friend”. I told him he might be bipolar, or he was just who he is and will never change…and it was OVER and I am blocking his number this time.
And I did.
I don’t want to go to the place I was in a year and a half ago, and I won’t because this time, I am so much stronger and my heart is scarred that it will never open up and let someone in so easily again.
I was kind, compassionate and caring and gave alot to a monster that didn’t deserve it. My big mistake was not listening to my gut feelings…
Oxy, I am always breaking that social convention where someone asks, “how are you?” and expects to hear the requsite, “fine.” I kind of enjoy telling the truth, like, “oh, I have a head-ache” or, “I’m tired.” I don’t go on and on, but I think it’s a hoot to point out to others just how little they really care, so why ask? If they ask, I tell ’em. Maybe the next time they see me they’ll say, “nice day isn’t it” instead of asking me how I am.
People usually respond with a bit of surprise, because we all know we are supposed to be, “fine.”
Maybe I’m a little bit naughty, but it’s harmless, and I’ve always been the soothsayer type. LOL
Dear ToBeHappy:
I understand the 3 strikes your out. I did the same thing. The first time I let him back in, I told him that my family was very upset with him for the way he treated me. He said he would sit down with each one and apologize and let them know that this is it and that he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. And so he met them and poured out the croc tears…then 2 months later he left me again. Then 6 weeks later he comes back with “I am so sorry for hurting you. I am just so confused of where I should be and who I should be with…my ex-wife or you”. So I let him back in and this time he plays on my religious beliefs and says he wants to speak to my pastor to get help…..just another ploy so that I would believe that he was changing (mirroring) my life to let him back in. Two months later he leaves me again, but this time, I packed his crap and put it out in the snow by the road. I was finished with his “dangling carrot”. He always gave me just a little bit more each time to make me think he was changing for the better only to go back to the way he was.
At one point, he made me so crazy that I actually was questioning my own beliefs in God. (I have a very strong faith), but even this SPATH made me question whether there was a God. Scared the daylights out of me.
I have had no contact for 6 weeks, even though he keeps trying to contact me, I remain strong and do not answer his texts. I am giving him enough rope to hang himself by saying the wrong thing to me on the texts then I can take him to court to get my $8,000 back that I loaned him.
Whew……I just had to take a deep breath and realize just how far I have come in just 6 weeks from the 7 year nightmare.
Schnoodle
KatyDid,
I read your post about lying. When it comes to my side business, I don’t tell people too much about myself. They can hear about my kids, full-time job, etc., but nothing about my marriage. I do not talk about the h-spath, letting anyone know that I’m separated. I am still recovering from most of my experiences (brought to me courtesy of hubby), not wanting to share the unreality of my past with others (who couldn’t relate to it anyway). What I am trying to do is spare myself the embarrassment of divulging too much about the person that I married, that he can definitely act like a low-life. Peace.
Great article, Oxy. Before I read it, I thought you were going to be asking us to contribute a few of our own 1,001 things we did wrong. And I thought, oh wow, where would I start?
I really liked what you wrote about the shift from the particular to the general. When I was “in the particular,” I felt like The Far Side’s famous “crisis clinic” cartoon with the burning building about to crash over the waterfall. Everything was urgent, desperate, needing to be fixed immediately and I was responsible for all of it. In the general, I could back away a bit and see the patterns.
But the funny thing about sociopaths is that I think we see the patterns pretty early in the game. We just don’t believe what we’re seeing. I remember thinking to myself, “I’m just not understanding him; no one is really like that.” And then I’d force myself to relax, to not be so judgmental, to not try to control everything, to wait and see how things worked out.
That I think was about #27 of the 1,001 things I did wrong.
#1 was enjoying feeling flattered and basking in all the attention I was getting from this guy. That was the very, very beginning of it all.
Years later he told me that he was bored to death while he was spending all that time acting like I was the most fascinating person he’d ever met.
Have you ever heard me say I don’t like being complimented? Don’t trust it. Don’t like the idea that someone is judging me, even if the decisions are positive. Don’t want to feel good about being told how wonderful I am, because it means I’m equally vulnerable to feeling bad if I’m criticized or belittled. Don’t want to ever again make my happiness dependent on other people’s opinions of me.
That’s what I learned from mistake #1.
Oxy, you might have a book here. Maybe with cartoons.
Kathy
Schnoodle….
Thank you for your support. I went NC TWICE FOR 5 MONTHS!!! The second time I went back, it lasted 5 months…then 5 months NC. This time, I caught him and CALLED him on the lies! He was denying that HE put the profiles on the dating and sex sites….LOL! That his daughter, friends put it on , used it….etc!!!
He called me his best friend…which I was, but he was my worst enemy! He wanted to still “talk” and meet for a movie…He wanted his “emotional supply” , becuase he called me a thous times a day to dump his feelings and problems on me….and then he figured he’d con me into sex again.
I said…Why on earth would I consider YOU a “friend”??? You lied to me and cheated on me. He finally admitted that he was meeting women from the sites all along and was wrong and was sorry!!! Imagine that!!! I said, “Gee, after 3 yrs you admit it and think its ok and I should forgive you! I am blocking your number and don’t ever contact me.” He said he wouldn’t. ( I unveiled the mask!!!) I said “Thank you, Goodbye”.
This time, since the mask was stripped off of his face, he will run…hopefully , and stay away!!! Last time he emaile me and sent me letters in the mail.
I swear on my children’s lives…I will NEVER contact him again in my life.
God don’t like ugly. He will be taken care of.
When he (Satan) left me , each time….ALL GOOD THINGS came to me…MONEY, Health, and PEACE inside. It took months…but I went to therapy and groups and read, and posted and read here…and joined a gym…and I was finally “over” the nightmare and moving forward. All anxiety left me and I was moving on. …..then I answered a text!
I KNOW that I will grieve this whole mess for awhile…but I will never feel as sad and angry and hurt as I did when it first happenned.
So, we need to thank God for taking Satan out of our lives, and keep the faith. We are good people, angels…..and the devil (evil people) always target us. So, we need to be TOUGH angels.
Thanks again!