By Ox Drover
After reading Steve Becker’s article yesterday, I commented that most of the articles here on Lovefraud that could be entitled “1001 Things I Did Wrong in Dealing with a Psychopath” were the ones that applied most to my own dealings with them.
That was meant as a joke, but after I left that comment for Steve, I got to thinking about how right-on it was, joke or not, because I have done so much wrong in dealing with these people. I got my self deeper and deeper into trouble, doing the wrong things in interacting with them. Not that I was intentionally doing something mean or “wrong” per se, but I didn’t make choices that led to positive outcomes in dealing with the psychopaths in my life.
One of the reasons I did 1001 things wrong was that I didn’t know what I was dealing with. I thought I was dealing with people who had good intentions toward me, just as I had good intentions toward them. Boy, was that a wrong thing to assume. But because I assumed this error in fact about their intentions, I tried to “be reasonable” with them. That sure didn’t work. They broke their word to me time and time again. It took me a long time “to get it through my thick skull,” as MaryJo Buttafuoco said in her book, and then, when I did get it through my thick head that “Person A” couldn’t be trusted, I didn’t “generalize” that knowledge to other people who also broke their words to me over and over and over again.
Learning to generalize
Even animals can learn to generalize. A friend and I trained steer, getting them used to “something that rattled.” It didn’t matter what rattled; we would use plastic milk jugs with rocks in them, and tie those jugs to their tails so that every time they took a step, this “rattling monster” attached to them would make noise and follow them. For a little while they were scared and ran from it, but eventually they got the idea that the “rattling monster” wasn’t going to be outrun by them (it always kept up), and it wasn’t actually going to hurt them. Eventually they decided anything that rattled and made noise was harmless.
With one set of young steers my friend trained though, if you got them used to a white jug with rocks in it, and they weren’t afraid of it any more, if you used a yellow jug, they would go back to SQUARE ONE PANIC AGAIN, with each tiny change in the “monster.” They didn’t “generalize” very well and were always hyper-alert and on guard. He eventually got them so they were “dynamite proof,” so he could take them out in public without being afraid they would panic at the first sound they weren’t used to, or the first loud retort from a fire cracker, but he and I both thought for a long time they might not ever generalize enough to be safe from panicking and running away out in public.
Abusive behavior
I think in a way I also didn’t “generalize” the abusive behaviors of the various psychopaths I encountered. When a boss would be dishonest and verbally abusive to me, I was upset and “panicked” at the unexpected behavior, trying to figure out how to not get hurt, but when a relative would do this same kind of behavior I, again, panicked and didn’t realize that the “rattle” was just the same kind of “monster” that I had encountered with the other psychopath. Of course I didn’t realize then that the psychopathic “monsters” had a name or that their lack of empathy and their damage was definitely destructive, unlike a milk jug with a few rocks in it.
I not only tried to be “reasonable” with the psychopaths, but I also tried to placate them, to make them see, by being extra nice to them and not “bowing up and fighting back,” that I wasn’t trying to hurt them. I wanted to be “friends” and get along.
Of course, when a prey animal tries to get along with a predator animal we know what happens, don’t we? The prey animal gets the worst end of the deal. Yep, I did get the worst end of the deal trying to “make nice” with the psychopaths, but again, I didn’t learn that a psychopath is a psychopath is a psychopath is a predator! Rather than generalize this hurtful behavior to a class of people, I saw each one as an individual person with “reasons” and “excuses” and the “potential to change” and “see the light” when there was no chance that they were going to have any empathy, much less sympathy, for the pain they caused me or anyone else. They didn’t give a hoot how badly they hurt me as long as they got what they wanted.
Wanted to get along
I also didn’t really see what it was that they actually wanted. I didn’t want to cause anyone any pain, I wanted to love people and get along with them and share good things and help folks out. This is what I thought that everyone wanted. What they actually did want, however, was to control me, humiliate me, and to get me to provide them with their own twisted idea of a relationship—all take on their part and all give on mine.
Just like the hyper-alert steers, I didn’t feel comfortable, and was always jumpy, expecting something to hit me, but I wasn’t sure where it would come from, so each time a psychopath lied to me, stole from me, took advantage of me, I was totally surprised again and again.
Eventually that young pair of steers got to where they were not surprised by anything in the way of a loud noise and they calmed down and became a reliable pair of working steers (oxen). But it was only because they learned to move from the individual to the general concepts of what would or would not hurt them. They learned that a little yappy dog running at their feet was not a danger, but that a large aggressive dog was something that they should kick at or hook at with their horns. They learned that the sound of a fire cracker or a car back firing, or a cannon shooting at a historical reenactment, wasn’t going to hurt them and they didn’t need to pay it any attention. They learned to distinguish between harmless noises like people yelling or laughing and their drover saying “get up” and meaning it!
I’m not sure why these particular steers were so difficult to train. Perhaps it was because the breed was the wilder Spanish cattle from Mexico whose ancestors that had not jumped every time there was a noise in the brush had been taken out of the gene pool by the wolves, coyotes and mountain lions, so only the “jumpy” ones were left.
Changed my response
I’m also not sure why I didn’t generalize from the abusive behavior I endured over and over, or change the failed attempts to get it to stop by doing repeatedly something that had not worked. Someone once said, “insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” I sure did enough of that for two lifetimes. Now I have changed the way I respond to abusive behavior. I am learning to distinguish the difference between “harmless rattles” and “real threats” from predators.
I have made some general “rules” to guide me in my differentiation of what is “harmless” and what is “threatening.” First off, it depends on how close to me the threat is. A rattle snake at 10 yards from me is no threat at all. I know he could hurt me if he was closer, but I will not let him get close enough to strike me, so I don’t have to fear him. If that same rattle snake is 3 feet from me, I take a different view of the potential for harm from the same snake, and react in a different way than I do to the one who is 30 feet away.
If a person who is not “close to me” lies to me, it probably isn’t going to be much of a danger to me, unless it is a big business deal. I don’t fear that lie from someone I don’t really have any connection with, I just notice (like with the rattle snake at a distance) that the person is dishonest, I don’t want him to get closer to me.
If a person who is “close to me” lies, that has a much bigger potential for harm to me, both emotionally and otherwise. Therefore I will move away from that dishonest person, put some distance between me and them so that if they do strike, they won’t be close enough to hit me or do any significant damage.
Threat or benign
Once I have determined that a person, animal, or object is a potential threat rather than a benign creature, I will keep a wary eye on it. I won’t make excuses for the potential damage, and once it has tried to hurt me, it won’t have another chance. I no longer trust anything or anyone without assessing the potential damage that could be done.
Cynical? No, I don’t think so, just cautious. I don’t venture into the world like there are no dangers out there, no evil people. I do know now that there are some evil creatures in the world, some potential threats to my life, sanity and health. But I no longer walk in terror, because I have realized what the evil creatures are. I am no longer terrified of the “rattling milk jugs,” but I give a wide berth to the “poison snakes.”
I’ve finally personally learned from the “1001e things I did wrong in dealing with psychopaths.”
Katydid –
The official Fibro list goes something like this (this is from memory and I might leave things out, there are so many whacky and apparently unrelated symptoms that it’s difficult to recall them all) –
Starting head first and working my way down the body –
Headaches – varying in type and severity and length
dry eyes
fibro “Fog” (mental confusion, forgetfulness)
bursitis/frozen shoulder
numb/tingling arms.hands/fingers
swelling of the fingers/puffed hands/immobility of fingers
tender points at base of neck (back and front), inside elbows, chest, front hip area, buttocks, inner knee and two more paris of places that currently elude me….
all-over aching in muscles and bones; feelings of bruising and swelling, but no bruising or swelling apparent in those places
irritable bowel syndrome: bloating/wind/nausea/vomiting/constipation/diarrhoea/sharp paind from bowel spasms
interstital cystitus
stiff joints and limbs on rising; takes a while out of bed to “unfold” your body
restless leg syndrome
insomnia
even with sleep, feeling as though you have not slept
constant fatigue
depleted physical strength and ability (I can get tired washing the dishes and need to sit down and have an hour off so that I can finish them in 2 shifts – ridiculous!)
and naturally, as a result of all of the above, you can end up even more anxious and/or depressed
For a long time I resisted my diagnosis, telling my doctors, “but I haven’t got THIS and I don’t feel THAT…” but sure enough, over the course of this year I have ended up with most of the “thises” and the “thats”. Almost every symptom on the charts.
Most people do not get all – but all get MANY of the symptoms.
It’s YUKKY!!!
Sorry about my delays. I think they must be doing maintenance. I’m having lots of downtime between posts.
Aussiegirl,
When I was in hiding from the Trojan horse Psychopath I ran across a Sam V-owned site for support for victims. It had several moderators there and those moderators were actually quite controlling, and would threaten me with kicking me off the site if I said “God bless you” because “it might offend someone who had been religiously persecuted” If I said I had said I was a devil worshiper that was OK though. That wouldn’t offend anyone I guess.
Vaknin put up a blog article about “Jesus was a Narcissist” that was one of the most hateful articles I have ever read that was up for a couple of days and then got taken down. The glee in his posts was so hateful it made my stomach turn.
About that time I found LoveFraud and came here—different atmosphere here. Comforting and caring. the Sam-owned site had some nice people but the moderators were so controlling and back-stabbing it was just more “games” and all for the benefit of the owner of the site Sam-the psychopath to sell books and to pontificate and to watch suffering with glee.
I will never go to that URL again as long as I live. I realize that some few people have been “helped” by that site, but over all I know quite a few people that have been RE-victimized on that site by flames from the moderators and flames from other posters as well as from Sam.
When a victim is raw, living in chaos and fear, and extremely fragile it is sort of hard to tell (from the outside) if they are “crazy” or a psychopath posing as a victim, or if they are just wounded and bleeding and in need of comfort, but it seems to me that compassion and caring is in order, not control and thrashing. If they are a psychopath posing as a victim, they will out themselves eventually, and over the internet it is easy enough to keep them from flaming others (Donna does an excellent job of it I think) by blocking them. In the meantime, the ON LINE COMMUNITY will police itself I think pretty much as the LF community members do by the potted plant and gray rock tactics of not responding to the flamer and hitting the “report abusive comment” link and kicking it upstairs to the final authority.
In the end, there is the “vote with your feet” option of leaving the site if there is frequent abuse allowed on the site.
As we heal and as we learn both about psychopaths and about ourselves, we become stronger and can pick the grain out of the chaff of the BS of people who don’t know what the heck they are talking about. We also develop a thicker skin so that the “slings and arrows” thrown around by others don’t hurt us as much and they sort of bounce off our hides.
We learn to give and receive support as we need it and as we are able…and each time we support someone else, it in turn strengthens our own resolves to live better lives. That’s why I’m still here after 3+ years and I get more each day than I give. I’ve met some wonderful folks here on LF and I’ve met a few passing trolls, but I have realized that the wonderful folks far out number the trolls.
kindheart, I think it’s good to have positive dreams about your future.
Hope you keep posting, I miss you when you’re not around! 🙂
Knowing what “they” are is our power.
As you already know, you won’t find the relief
you are seeking by calling him. Glad you came here instead
and it sounds like you miss the meetings,
I hope you attend a meeting tomorrow, lots of support there too. xoxo
thanks angels all of you, i’m off to bed with chocolate in hand, tomorro w will be a better day, shabby i missed you too and i will promise to take in some meetings. Love kindheart.
Hey Kindheart48
In spite of working very hard to bury my head in the sand, some things I have learned.
NOTHING wrong with emotional needs. Don’t deny them. Claim them. Honor them. They do NOT make you weak. They make you REAL. That you have them is what make you Better than your Xpath. Your job is to look for and find ways to meet them in a HEALTHY way.
ps mmmm. chocolate. (mouth watering) Make sure the Chocolate is really good. There are not enough days left to waste eating bad chocolate… Make an event of it. Savor the chocolate. Put on some music. Soak your feet and give yourself a pedicure.
Kindheart –
now you’re talking girl!!! There’s not a lot of bad that can come from CHOCOLATE!!! Chocolate can smooth over so many ills.
Where do I start?
You are never alone with a chocolate bar….
Chocolate never hits you…
chocolate never lies to you….
chocolate always tastes good…..
chocolate never lets you down…
chocolate never runs you down…..
chocolate doesn’t mind who else you talk to…..
chocolate never tells you what to do….
chocolate is always available for you…
chocolate never says your bum looks big in that skirt…
chocolate doesn’t want you to fetch its slippers and pipe…
chocolate never uses all of the hot water…
chocolate never generates any washing or dishes (unless you are silly enough to eat it off a plate instead of just right out of the packet!)…
chocolate doesn’t expect you to like or visit its family members…
chocolate doesn’t chat up your friends…
chocolate is dependable…
choclate is a cheap date…
I could go on and on!
(Can you tell I’m chocolate deprived at the moment? :()
Damn – now you have all gone to bed, I can no longer ignore my floors that need cleaning!! Bloody scoundrels, all of you!
Oh well *sigh* hi ho hi ho hi ho…..
Oxy and others. . . .
What else do you recommend for a child of a sociopath?
This is new for me to accept that my mother is one of these people– I don’t want to live in fear anymore.
Book suggestions. . . . etc. . . .
Dear Aussiegirl,
The problem with dx of FM is that that list of symptoms is also a list of symptoms of sleep apnea, depression (which came first the depression or the physical symptoms of it?), chronic fatigue (which may be linked to a viral precursor illness) and 100 other things from low thyroid on?
When I was first dx with chronic fatigue/FM both were considered neurotic psychosomatic pseudo-illnesses for women who were nut jobs. My symptoms turned up after a viral illness of about a week’s duration with high fevers….dx after big work up as “chronic fatigue” and a couple of years later as FM. Symptoms have come and gone over the years, and eventually got sleep apnea dx and treatment with machine at night, makes a BIG difference in how I feel, then the PTSD after my husband’s death….and multiple stress-related infections (the PTSD crapped out my immune systems so got life threatening infections requiring surgery etc)
Add it all together, HIGH STRESS=PHYSICAL/EMOTIONAL/MENTAL PROBLEMS which in turn cause MORE STRESS=MORE PHYSICAL/EMOTIONAL/MENTAL/ADDICTIVE PROBLEMS which cause difficulty functioning in a job which causes financial problems which in turn causes HIGHER STRESS…..and so on.
It is difficult to focus on taking care of yourself so you smoke more, eat more, drink more, exercise less etc. and the cycle continues unless something makes us break it.
In my case, I broke it when I realized I could not continue to go on the way I was and I broke and RAN for my life. I was forced to “defecate or vacate” as we say here in the states! Or More crudely “shiat or get off the pot!” I’m not sure what I would have done if I had not found LoveFraud. I honestly think it saved my life. It has been a difficult journey but I am at a point now that I am starting to take care of myself, and the DECREASE in stress is the first thing we must do. Stress on that level will literally KILL YOU one way or another. I got infections that almost did because my immune system was crapped out by the high stress.
So, how do you decrease stress when you are fighting for your life? It ain’t easy, but we have to GET AWAY from the stressers and that means get away from the psychopaths. NC is mandatory to start to heal.
For those people who must co-parent with these predators and have a need to protect their young from a predatory co-parent, I have the greatest sympathy and empathy. It has GOT TO BE HELL ON EARTH! At least I was able to get away.
REALIZING that we MUST COMPLETELY GET AWAY though is the most difficult thing. To give up that malignant hope that we can fix them or the situation is so difficult when we love that person…..whatever the relationship is….lover, spouse, parent, child, friend….etc. It seemed to me like I would start to get away, to grieve relationship #1 and then had to re-do it all with relationshit #2 and then #3 and #4 and it seemed like it would never end, each one a fresh ripping of bone and muscle and tendon down to the core of my being. Amputating of my limbs with a dull rusty butcher knife and no anesthetic. Each wound afresh. Now I am down to the core, just a few wonderful friends, my one son and my world is at peace, the last amputation last year at holiday time when I amputated my second and last biological son when he lied to me. I didn’t amputate him for ONLY THAT lie, but for the 100 he had told me previously, and the realization that he really had never stopped lying, he just hadn’t needed to for a while, but as soon as he “needed” to lie again, he whipped it out. NOPE, I don’t tolerate liars in my circle of trust any more…sorry it had to be him I amputated, and it hurt (had another melt down) but fortunately I’m getting to where even the most painful amputation now is more routine and endurable. Still hurts, but I’ve had practice in survival now and that does help.
I think parents who shield their children from the pain of the loss through the death of a pet by getting them another pet quickly are doing their children no favors. I think we need PRACTICE in grief…starting when we are young with the losses of our pets. I think learning how to grieve is like learning how to walk, we fall down and get bumps, but by doing it we learn how. Those people who have never experienced loss or grief are the ones who fold when they do get it between the eyes.
I think as we learn to cope with the losses we have experienced through the psychopaths, and to get through the grief process, we become stronger, more resilient and more able to cope with the normal and the abnormal losses life brings us.
It is good to have the intellectual and emotional support we receive here in conversing with others on a similar journey.
Hang in there Kindheart! You know the drill! (((hugs))))