By Ox Drover
After reading Steve Becker’s article yesterday, I commented that most of the articles here on Lovefraud that could be entitled “1001 Things I Did Wrong in Dealing with a Psychopath” were the ones that applied most to my own dealings with them.
That was meant as a joke, but after I left that comment for Steve, I got to thinking about how right-on it was, joke or not, because I have done so much wrong in dealing with these people. I got my self deeper and deeper into trouble, doing the wrong things in interacting with them. Not that I was intentionally doing something mean or “wrong” per se, but I didn’t make choices that led to positive outcomes in dealing with the psychopaths in my life.
One of the reasons I did 1001 things wrong was that I didn’t know what I was dealing with. I thought I was dealing with people who had good intentions toward me, just as I had good intentions toward them. Boy, was that a wrong thing to assume. But because I assumed this error in fact about their intentions, I tried to “be reasonable” with them. That sure didn’t work. They broke their word to me time and time again. It took me a long time “to get it through my thick skull,” as MaryJo Buttafuoco said in her book, and then, when I did get it through my thick head that “Person A” couldn’t be trusted, I didn’t “generalize” that knowledge to other people who also broke their words to me over and over and over again.
Learning to generalize
Even animals can learn to generalize. A friend and I trained steer, getting them used to “something that rattled.” It didn’t matter what rattled; we would use plastic milk jugs with rocks in them, and tie those jugs to their tails so that every time they took a step, this “rattling monster” attached to them would make noise and follow them. For a little while they were scared and ran from it, but eventually they got the idea that the “rattling monster” wasn’t going to be outrun by them (it always kept up), and it wasn’t actually going to hurt them. Eventually they decided anything that rattled and made noise was harmless.
With one set of young steers my friend trained though, if you got them used to a white jug with rocks in it, and they weren’t afraid of it any more, if you used a yellow jug, they would go back to SQUARE ONE PANIC AGAIN, with each tiny change in the “monster.” They didn’t “generalize” very well and were always hyper-alert and on guard. He eventually got them so they were “dynamite proof,” so he could take them out in public without being afraid they would panic at the first sound they weren’t used to, or the first loud retort from a fire cracker, but he and I both thought for a long time they might not ever generalize enough to be safe from panicking and running away out in public.
Abusive behavior
I think in a way I also didn’t “generalize” the abusive behaviors of the various psychopaths I encountered. When a boss would be dishonest and verbally abusive to me, I was upset and “panicked” at the unexpected behavior, trying to figure out how to not get hurt, but when a relative would do this same kind of behavior I, again, panicked and didn’t realize that the “rattle” was just the same kind of “monster” that I had encountered with the other psychopath. Of course I didn’t realize then that the psychopathic “monsters” had a name or that their lack of empathy and their damage was definitely destructive, unlike a milk jug with a few rocks in it.
I not only tried to be “reasonable” with the psychopaths, but I also tried to placate them, to make them see, by being extra nice to them and not “bowing up and fighting back,” that I wasn’t trying to hurt them. I wanted to be “friends” and get along.
Of course, when a prey animal tries to get along with a predator animal we know what happens, don’t we? The prey animal gets the worst end of the deal. Yep, I did get the worst end of the deal trying to “make nice” with the psychopaths, but again, I didn’t learn that a psychopath is a psychopath is a psychopath is a predator! Rather than generalize this hurtful behavior to a class of people, I saw each one as an individual person with “reasons” and “excuses” and the “potential to change” and “see the light” when there was no chance that they were going to have any empathy, much less sympathy, for the pain they caused me or anyone else. They didn’t give a hoot how badly they hurt me as long as they got what they wanted.
Wanted to get along
I also didn’t really see what it was that they actually wanted. I didn’t want to cause anyone any pain, I wanted to love people and get along with them and share good things and help folks out. This is what I thought that everyone wanted. What they actually did want, however, was to control me, humiliate me, and to get me to provide them with their own twisted idea of a relationship—all take on their part and all give on mine.
Just like the hyper-alert steers, I didn’t feel comfortable, and was always jumpy, expecting something to hit me, but I wasn’t sure where it would come from, so each time a psychopath lied to me, stole from me, took advantage of me, I was totally surprised again and again.
Eventually that young pair of steers got to where they were not surprised by anything in the way of a loud noise and they calmed down and became a reliable pair of working steers (oxen). But it was only because they learned to move from the individual to the general concepts of what would or would not hurt them. They learned that a little yappy dog running at their feet was not a danger, but that a large aggressive dog was something that they should kick at or hook at with their horns. They learned that the sound of a fire cracker or a car back firing, or a cannon shooting at a historical reenactment, wasn’t going to hurt them and they didn’t need to pay it any attention. They learned to distinguish between harmless noises like people yelling or laughing and their drover saying “get up” and meaning it!
I’m not sure why these particular steers were so difficult to train. Perhaps it was because the breed was the wilder Spanish cattle from Mexico whose ancestors that had not jumped every time there was a noise in the brush had been taken out of the gene pool by the wolves, coyotes and mountain lions, so only the “jumpy” ones were left.
Changed my response
I’m also not sure why I didn’t generalize from the abusive behavior I endured over and over, or change the failed attempts to get it to stop by doing repeatedly something that had not worked. Someone once said, “insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” I sure did enough of that for two lifetimes. Now I have changed the way I respond to abusive behavior. I am learning to distinguish the difference between “harmless rattles” and “real threats” from predators.
I have made some general “rules” to guide me in my differentiation of what is “harmless” and what is “threatening.” First off, it depends on how close to me the threat is. A rattle snake at 10 yards from me is no threat at all. I know he could hurt me if he was closer, but I will not let him get close enough to strike me, so I don’t have to fear him. If that same rattle snake is 3 feet from me, I take a different view of the potential for harm from the same snake, and react in a different way than I do to the one who is 30 feet away.
If a person who is not “close to me” lies to me, it probably isn’t going to be much of a danger to me, unless it is a big business deal. I don’t fear that lie from someone I don’t really have any connection with, I just notice (like with the rattle snake at a distance) that the person is dishonest, I don’t want him to get closer to me.
If a person who is “close to me” lies, that has a much bigger potential for harm to me, both emotionally and otherwise. Therefore I will move away from that dishonest person, put some distance between me and them so that if they do strike, they won’t be close enough to hit me or do any significant damage.
Threat or benign
Once I have determined that a person, animal, or object is a potential threat rather than a benign creature, I will keep a wary eye on it. I won’t make excuses for the potential damage, and once it has tried to hurt me, it won’t have another chance. I no longer trust anything or anyone without assessing the potential damage that could be done.
Cynical? No, I don’t think so, just cautious. I don’t venture into the world like there are no dangers out there, no evil people. I do know now that there are some evil creatures in the world, some potential threats to my life, sanity and health. But I no longer walk in terror, because I have realized what the evil creatures are. I am no longer terrified of the “rattling milk jugs,” but I give a wide berth to the “poison snakes.”
I’ve finally personally learned from the “1001e things I did wrong in dealing with psychopaths.”
Imeetapsycho – hey! Welcome friend. Don’t worry about your English – it is the world’s most silly language without a doubt.
Even on here, on the blog, the English-speaking Americans don’t always understand the English-speaking British or the English-speaking Australians or the English-speaking Canadians. We get by.
Imeet, just reading your post above i have to say i too am dismayed at how many toxic people are immediately involved in my life but i’m sorting through the garbage. When i went into no contact with the s i thought it would be smooth sailing, then my dad passed and left his esate(alkie brother behind manipulation) to a bully friend and they have been well how should i put it. I’ll put it this way i have a nice male friend who doesn’t know any of the people involved but told me the other day that he feels that the lawyer , brother , stepmother all of them maybe not consciously but at any rate he feels that they have in his words “tried to kill me” over the last year and a half. That may be an extreme observation but it gives you an idea of what i’ve been dealing with. Like with the s i ‘ve tried to battle all these characters to stand up for my Grandma’s will and myself and my sons to find out the lawyers whom i’ve paid royally, and should have helped me , well i should have done the no contact with them all, but we as decent people try to get along but it’s futile. i was blackmailed after my father passed to sit back and let this bully with a 1/3 share take over my job as executor. They are still trying to outpower me and i’ve sold at a very good price but nothing is ever enough, my brother plays this guy in charge of my ddad’s like a puppet and looking back it’s been that way my whole life. At this point i’ve decided not to talk to any of them and do my thing as executive and i know they will be on me for the money as the deal just closed and im going to do what they say in aa, whatever you think do the opposite, no reaction. Very hard to do but i m goig to try. kh
You sound much better tonight KH. x (OOPS! I guess it’s morning where you are – anyways, I’m off to bed, big day with the police, giving statements again tomorrow, so have to get my rest)
So – you have yourself a peaceful day, alright?
hushabybabydoll,
You’re figuring it all out (and at such a young age) about how essential it is to go No Contact with sociopaths (doing what is best for you and your family). Most people (eg, majority of church-goers) are not familiar with and experienced with dealing with sociopaths, so their advice may not be completely suitable for you and your situation. It sounds like you’re listening to your intuition (which is excellent) and will relocate to a place where you and your family can live in peace, thrive. Go for it. I’ve told myself, until God heals “X” (this can apply to any toxic person), I will protect myself as much as possible from “X,” going No Contact (and/or limiting contact) with him/her.
Dear Eva,
Thank you, and glad to have you here! Your English is just fine! I used to speak a little “Sp-ang-lish” back when I lived near the Mexican border, but has been so many years ago I don’t remember much!
Glad you don’t willingly meet psychopaths any more! That right there is a big step iin the right direction! (((hugs))))
Hello, everyone!
This is my first time posting at Love Fraud.
I have been on this website for the past 3 months… after my intense breakup with my s-path.
I will give you all a quick rundown of what exactly happened..The relationship only lasted 7 months but it has left me completely broken…
I am a 20 year old female, who was recently involved with a 50 year old female. I am NOT gay… i told her that from the beginning and she considered herself 100% lesbian. I might also want to add that she was also an ex professor of mine.
So… we started off as being friends after class (during this time, i was in a 3 1/2 year relationship with my ex boyfriend). I got so attracted to the s-path when i became friends with her… She told me in feb. that she was “attracted” to me (knowing that i had a bf at the time)…. But i was also very attracted to her so i broke up with him and started dating her.
Being with a female and an older female brought me a lot of excitment and made everything seem so “new!”. I enjoyed being with her (i always paid for myself, so no, she was not a sugar mama or anything). I just loved her company.. she was so dominating, exciting, new and everything great a person can be.
After about only one month… i became super insecure with her.. And let me just let you guys know that i am NOT a insecure person at all.. Infact, I am very secure with myself and love myself (well i did, before i met her). I suddenly became very insecure with her… i would always wonder who she was hanging out with (she is extremely social, and have a LOT of friends). I always wanted to be included and always wanted to be a part of her world. And she always did include me in her world… introduced me to all her friends… took me out with them… etc.
But i became extremely insecure with her and started doubting myself a lot. During my relationship with her (especially in the beginning)… i got many anxiety attacks… was always insecure and nervous around her. I lost about 20 pounds… stopped eating and sleeping really… From the first day i met her… i completely became OBSESSED with her. I thought about her 24/7… wanted to be with her all the time.. talked about her ALL the time… It was an obsession that came from a place i never knew existed. She had this HOLD on me that was so strong that nothing else mattered to me but her.
During our relationship, i noticed that she bragged about herself A LOT!!!! I know she was earing a good amount of money… but she bragged about herself A LOT!!!!!!! She said she did this and that and worked with this person and that person… (which all is probably true)… but the point is..she was her biggest cheerleader.
Another thing was that… she lied A LOT! About stuff that did not need to be lied about. She never discussed her age with me to begin with… When i finally asked her how old she was.. she said she was 44 (but i had already knew that she was 50). She lied to me about not going through menopause.. (she not once had her period with me… so i know she lied). She lied to me about “rescuing her dog”… she later told her her dog was a gift from an ex.
She lied to me about being friends with people that i didnt want her to be friends with (although i dont have solid proof of this… but i am certin it is true). I also didnt know much about her past… i dont know who and how many people she has dated… (she said 11, but i believe that there was a lot more than 11 people in her 50 years of life because she is SO outgoing and social).
She was very personal about her emails and such… I never was really part of her LIFE fully… because i never was able to go through her emails or phone.
There was one time in our relationship that i remember a big clash in our relationship.
I had told my s-path that “I dont deal with exes and i dont want you dealing with yours.” I stopped talking to mine and expected her to do the same. Big mistake.
My s-path told me she hated her ex because her ex broke up with her for someone else… blah blah blah…u know always playing the victim.
So… This one time… My spath told me.. “I need to get my AC back from Mary” (her ex, she is beautiful, 30 years old). I told my spath… I dont want you to contact Mary so forget your ac… its only 100$, just buy yourself a new one… So my spath agreed, and i thought the conversation ended that day… BIG MISTAKE.
I came to her house a few days later.. and i see an ac there… On the ac was a note from Mary just thanking her for the AC.
So… i questioned my spath and she said that one of her friends went to pick up the ac from Mary… She cried and cried and ofcouse i believed her lies…. A few weeks laters my spath left her phone in my bag and i decided to go through it… In the phone ther was a message to her friend saying that IF I CONTACTED HER, TO TELL ME THAT HER FRIEND WENT TO PICK UP THE AC.
(i hope this isnt so confusing for you all, i am so bad at writing and explaining myself).
Basicaly my spath told her friend to lie to me abt the ac.
When i questioned my spath this time… she said she went to see mary for 10 mins to pick up the ac.
When i asked her why she lied to me about seeing her ex… She had 3 excuses.
1) I felt guilty for the “BITCH (her ex)” having her stuff..she didnt deserve to have her stuff.
2) Mary owed my spath some money
3) “We had some business to take care of”.
So yes, lies after one another. I broke up with her but took her back after 2 days after this whole thing with her ex happened.
Now about 3 months ago, my family found out about me and my spath and i decided to break things off with my spath for my family. My mother is convinced that she was just using me for sex (and yes, we had great sex… it was the most intense experience of my life, sexually).
I broke things off with my sociopath and never contacted her again.. its been 3 months… NO CONTACT whatsoever. She tried to contact me… Through a friend, through facebook, sending a package in my house… But for the past 2 months… she has given up and completely moved on (so i believe).
My only thing is… i am left with a lot of guilt. After my sociopath left… i am left with a lot of guilt for her.. i am wondering if i made the right decision… She has all the traits of a sociopath. Dominating, charming, controlling, manipulative, liar, playing the victim, never wrong.. very sexual.. etc etc.
She also told me “I LOVE YOUNG GIRLS AND THEY LOVE ME”.
Also… her longest realtionship was 4 years… She also said “Maybe i am just suppose to have really good small relationships…”
So, now readers at love fraud.. I ask you, Why cant i move on? 3 months later.. i am still stuck in the same place… i feel very guilty for leaving her and i feel like i betrayed her… I feel very lost without her… i always think about her… i miss her alll the time and how can she be wrong if she never wanted to break up with me in the first place?
She lied yes… A LOT. but she was sooo good to me. She never treated me with disrespect… loved me and cared for me so much. How can someone like that possibly be wrong? I have a lot of confusion in my head… Gone to therapy and everything and all they say is “just forget this person and move on..”
The hold she has on me.. even though she is no longer a part of my life is so strong.. I often find myself thinking what she is doing and if she is thinking about me… etc.
Everyone says she has done this before and she is probably moved on… But… i dont know… You all know how it is… the situtation seems to wrong to the world and so right to the person involved..
Please help. I am a young girl in desperate need of wise words and i know the only people that can help me in the world is you all… because unlike everyone else.. you know what it is like to be under the spath’s “spell!!”.
Thank you.
lostnconfused,
i will respond more fully later, but a number of things pop out about your post.
1) it is not respect if you are being lied to.
2) all first time lesbian relationships can be very intense and overwhelming, and sometimes obsessive.
3) having access to someone’s phone and email is not ‘being in their life’; it is crossing what can be, very normal boundaries.
4) spath or narcissist or not – she lied. a lot. this is a no fly zone.
5) is she thinking about you? hopefully not.
6) breaking obsession is like breaking an addiction – a one day at a time commitment to break away from the thinking, needs, and actions that keep you tied to the object of the obsession.
7) while it isn’t strictly unethical to be involved with an ex student, your age difference would add to the already imbalanced power dynamic.
8) spath/ n or not – she sounds predatory.(sorry about the smiley face – can’t make it go away for some reason…i press eight and i get a smiley face)
9) consider that you have been attracted to her power – (if, as you say so adamently, you are not gay, then there were others reasons you were attracted to her.) many of us are attracted to what we consider powerful, especially when we are young. take a good look at what looks powerful to you and rewrite that script.
do some more reading here, and educate yourself further on how to peal back the layers of what happened, undo the obsession and you will begin to heal.
best,
one step
Lostnconfused,
In a way you are under the ex-girlfriend’s “spell.” It will take time to get over this person – you may be obsessively replaying your relationship, figuring things out. You are smart to be No Contact with the woman (I applaud you for using your common sense). Like one_step_at_a_time say’s, it’s like you’re overcoming an addiction – stay persistent in your recovery – sociopaths are emotional vultures, tearing normal, regular people apart. Take care of yourself and heal (the best thing that you can do for yourself). In time, the woman would have shown more of her true colors, most of it being unpleasant to witness. Actually, I think (just from reading your post), your intuition was picking up on her actual persona from the start (that tells me that your inner-self was onto her, though you didn’t know it until after you’d actually gotten involved with her). That to me is encouraging, telling me that our instincts work for us, on our behalf, warning us about “bad” people – we just have to fine-tune ourselves, learn to recognize the signals that our bodies send us.
lostnconfused,
Your spath and your relationshit and the way you acted and felt, sound EXACTLY like mine. except mine was a man 12 years older than I. I was 17.
It’s uncanny. Your write about stuff that I had forgotten that I noticed and felt in the very first 3 months of our relationshit. After 25 years, other stuff surfaced, so those strange feelings and obsessessions had been forgotten. It was like he was always trying to hide something and I needed to know what it was. Well, he WAS hiding so much! like his EVIL nature. He knew he was evil and knew he needed to hide it. But he could also read me and he let on just enough to make me think he was up to something, then I couldn’t catch him. Or if I did catch him in a lie, it was just a stupid lie, that didn’t make sense to lie about. These were just distractions to create drama and create that addiction to my own hormones of constant adrenalin. I get it now and your post brought it home to me.
Adrenalin is why you are addicted. Sam, In “I, Psychopath” explains exactly this, but it went past me too.
Adrenalin rises in me very easily, perhaps that’s a test we have to pass before we become a victim.
Your spath didn’t “accidentally” leave phone with a message in your purse. It was a “tell”. They like to leave clues about what they are doing, and then watch the drama unfold. But in truth, all the evil that my exP did was BEYOND my imagination: pedophile and murderer.
In the end he “TOLD” me what he did in a statement of projection. He said, “YOU are evil, your evil has NO LIMITS”.
What you’ve experienced is the tip of the iceberg. Really, you don’t want to know the rest. Just get away. FAR, FAR away.
Dear Confused,
Welcome to lovefraud, sugar, and I am in agreement 100% with One_step, LIES ARE NOT RESPECT.
She does not respect someone she lies to. She is “bragging” on herself (narcissistic, self centered, cares only for herself) Self-aggrandizing and power hungry, and yes, any professor or teacher who has an affair (straight or gay) with a student is CROSSING the line.
It is normal to “fall in love with” a teacher, and that power of teacher over pupil should not be exploited.
This woman is evil, get away from her.
Take some time (and more than 3 months) to sort out your own feelings, you are a young woman on the cusp of adulthood and finding out who you are. Take things slow. Decide what it is that you want and need to fulfill your own life, decide whether you are straight or gay.
You said you “left her for your family” and that is never a good reason to break up with someone…you need to break up with them for YOURSELF, though I do not blame your family for not liking this woman or your relationship with her, it is still YOUR relationship and you need to make wise decisions for YOU not someone else.
Keep reading here, there are many many wonderful articles here and knowledge is power, so educate yourself about dysfunctional relationships and people, This woman sounds like a complete loser. Take care of YOU and say away from anyone who is dysfunctional.