By Ox Drover
After reading Steve Becker’s article yesterday, I commented that most of the articles here on Lovefraud that could be entitled “1001 Things I Did Wrong in Dealing with a Psychopath” were the ones that applied most to my own dealings with them.
That was meant as a joke, but after I left that comment for Steve, I got to thinking about how right-on it was, joke or not, because I have done so much wrong in dealing with these people. I got my self deeper and deeper into trouble, doing the wrong things in interacting with them. Not that I was intentionally doing something mean or “wrong” per se, but I didn’t make choices that led to positive outcomes in dealing with the psychopaths in my life.
One of the reasons I did 1001 things wrong was that I didn’t know what I was dealing with. I thought I was dealing with people who had good intentions toward me, just as I had good intentions toward them. Boy, was that a wrong thing to assume. But because I assumed this error in fact about their intentions, I tried to “be reasonable” with them. That sure didn’t work. They broke their word to me time and time again. It took me a long time “to get it through my thick skull,” as MaryJo Buttafuoco said in her book, and then, when I did get it through my thick head that “Person A” couldn’t be trusted, I didn’t “generalize” that knowledge to other people who also broke their words to me over and over and over again.
Learning to generalize
Even animals can learn to generalize. A friend and I trained steer, getting them used to “something that rattled.” It didn’t matter what rattled; we would use plastic milk jugs with rocks in them, and tie those jugs to their tails so that every time they took a step, this “rattling monster” attached to them would make noise and follow them. For a little while they were scared and ran from it, but eventually they got the idea that the “rattling monster” wasn’t going to be outrun by them (it always kept up), and it wasn’t actually going to hurt them. Eventually they decided anything that rattled and made noise was harmless.
With one set of young steers my friend trained though, if you got them used to a white jug with rocks in it, and they weren’t afraid of it any more, if you used a yellow jug, they would go back to SQUARE ONE PANIC AGAIN, with each tiny change in the “monster.” They didn’t “generalize” very well and were always hyper-alert and on guard. He eventually got them so they were “dynamite proof,” so he could take them out in public without being afraid they would panic at the first sound they weren’t used to, or the first loud retort from a fire cracker, but he and I both thought for a long time they might not ever generalize enough to be safe from panicking and running away out in public.
Abusive behavior
I think in a way I also didn’t “generalize” the abusive behaviors of the various psychopaths I encountered. When a boss would be dishonest and verbally abusive to me, I was upset and “panicked” at the unexpected behavior, trying to figure out how to not get hurt, but when a relative would do this same kind of behavior I, again, panicked and didn’t realize that the “rattle” was just the same kind of “monster” that I had encountered with the other psychopath. Of course I didn’t realize then that the psychopathic “monsters” had a name or that their lack of empathy and their damage was definitely destructive, unlike a milk jug with a few rocks in it.
I not only tried to be “reasonable” with the psychopaths, but I also tried to placate them, to make them see, by being extra nice to them and not “bowing up and fighting back,” that I wasn’t trying to hurt them. I wanted to be “friends” and get along.
Of course, when a prey animal tries to get along with a predator animal we know what happens, don’t we? The prey animal gets the worst end of the deal. Yep, I did get the worst end of the deal trying to “make nice” with the psychopaths, but again, I didn’t learn that a psychopath is a psychopath is a psychopath is a predator! Rather than generalize this hurtful behavior to a class of people, I saw each one as an individual person with “reasons” and “excuses” and the “potential to change” and “see the light” when there was no chance that they were going to have any empathy, much less sympathy, for the pain they caused me or anyone else. They didn’t give a hoot how badly they hurt me as long as they got what they wanted.
Wanted to get along
I also didn’t really see what it was that they actually wanted. I didn’t want to cause anyone any pain, I wanted to love people and get along with them and share good things and help folks out. This is what I thought that everyone wanted. What they actually did want, however, was to control me, humiliate me, and to get me to provide them with their own twisted idea of a relationship—all take on their part and all give on mine.
Just like the hyper-alert steers, I didn’t feel comfortable, and was always jumpy, expecting something to hit me, but I wasn’t sure where it would come from, so each time a psychopath lied to me, stole from me, took advantage of me, I was totally surprised again and again.
Eventually that young pair of steers got to where they were not surprised by anything in the way of a loud noise and they calmed down and became a reliable pair of working steers (oxen). But it was only because they learned to move from the individual to the general concepts of what would or would not hurt them. They learned that a little yappy dog running at their feet was not a danger, but that a large aggressive dog was something that they should kick at or hook at with their horns. They learned that the sound of a fire cracker or a car back firing, or a cannon shooting at a historical reenactment, wasn’t going to hurt them and they didn’t need to pay it any attention. They learned to distinguish between harmless noises like people yelling or laughing and their drover saying “get up” and meaning it!
I’m not sure why these particular steers were so difficult to train. Perhaps it was because the breed was the wilder Spanish cattle from Mexico whose ancestors that had not jumped every time there was a noise in the brush had been taken out of the gene pool by the wolves, coyotes and mountain lions, so only the “jumpy” ones were left.
Changed my response
I’m also not sure why I didn’t generalize from the abusive behavior I endured over and over, or change the failed attempts to get it to stop by doing repeatedly something that had not worked. Someone once said, “insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” I sure did enough of that for two lifetimes. Now I have changed the way I respond to abusive behavior. I am learning to distinguish the difference between “harmless rattles” and “real threats” from predators.
I have made some general “rules” to guide me in my differentiation of what is “harmless” and what is “threatening.” First off, it depends on how close to me the threat is. A rattle snake at 10 yards from me is no threat at all. I know he could hurt me if he was closer, but I will not let him get close enough to strike me, so I don’t have to fear him. If that same rattle snake is 3 feet from me, I take a different view of the potential for harm from the same snake, and react in a different way than I do to the one who is 30 feet away.
If a person who is not “close to me” lies to me, it probably isn’t going to be much of a danger to me, unless it is a big business deal. I don’t fear that lie from someone I don’t really have any connection with, I just notice (like with the rattle snake at a distance) that the person is dishonest, I don’t want him to get closer to me.
If a person who is “close to me” lies, that has a much bigger potential for harm to me, both emotionally and otherwise. Therefore I will move away from that dishonest person, put some distance between me and them so that if they do strike, they won’t be close enough to hit me or do any significant damage.
Threat or benign
Once I have determined that a person, animal, or object is a potential threat rather than a benign creature, I will keep a wary eye on it. I won’t make excuses for the potential damage, and once it has tried to hurt me, it won’t have another chance. I no longer trust anything or anyone without assessing the potential damage that could be done.
Cynical? No, I don’t think so, just cautious. I don’t venture into the world like there are no dangers out there, no evil people. I do know now that there are some evil creatures in the world, some potential threats to my life, sanity and health. But I no longer walk in terror, because I have realized what the evil creatures are. I am no longer terrified of the “rattling milk jugs,” but I give a wide berth to the “poison snakes.”
I’ve finally personally learned from the “1001e things I did wrong in dealing with psychopaths.”
skylar,
You are right – you want to get “far, far away” – save yourself because more discoveries on always on the way (ugly, unpleasant, eye-opening facts about the spath). It’s hard to stomach the reality of how these people operate in life.
Thank you all for your wise words.
I knew from the beginning that something was very fishy about her… But she has this “look” to her… i see it everytime i close my eyes…
She is innocent, warm and naive.. (none of the things she was).
My issue is… she did SO much for me. We would always go go to places together… i was always at her home… all her friends knew about me etc etc…
How can someone like that just be pure evil? I didnt even know what sociopaths was until i researched “manipulation in relationships” and came across Love Fraud.
My family is very worried that i will go back to her and because of them i was able to maintain the NO CONTACT rule. The truth of the matter is… if i had or wil contact her… she will lie to me and tell me exacly what i want to hear… I will not fall into her trap anymore.
Despite knowing that this relationship was just WRONG and i totally lost myself somewhere while being with her… my issue is the HOLD she still has on me… The GUILT that i feel for her leaving her… What if she isnt a sociopath and im over thinking the situation too much? (but the characterists match her perfectly, and i never accused any of my other partners of being socipaths…)
What i want to ask is… Do you think she was in the mostly for sex? That was all i could offer to her anyway. I am a college student who works a entry level job… There is absolutely nothing else i can offer her…
She did once tell me i dont date people because of their money… I just date people for who they are..
I know, If you truly love someone, there shouldnt be any lies involved in the relationship… With her… there was MANY! So so many..
I keep wondering what she is doing… if she is thinking about me… if she misses me.. etc..
I never truly saw her bad side (no abuse… nothing of that sort… she didnt take any money from me..) So am i over thinking that she may be a sociopath?
If i go down the list of the characteristic of a sociopath… it describes her So well..
1) Charisma and charm: She is VERY charming… She has many many manyyyy friends… They love her and she loves them. They are her family.
2) Enormous ego: As i mentioned before… she was never embarassed to talk about herself and how amazing she is.. how many peoples lives she has saved etc etc.
3) Overly attentive: Once i mentioned my insecurities to her… she started texting/calling me a lot more.. She ALWASY knew my whereabouts.. i always didnt know hers… I just chose to tel her mine more than she chose to tell me hers.
4) Jekyll and Hyde personality: she would be very frustrated when i would see her in the beginning of the day.. and once we would have sex.. everything was great! She had extreme mood swings.. i ALWAYS knew this about her!
5) Blame others: She was ALWAYS the victim. Nothing was ever her fault. When she broke up with her exes… it was their fault… something wrong at work… someone elses fault.
6) Lies and gaps in the story: ALWAYS. as mentioned before.
7) Intense eye contact: This doesnt really apply… although i felt weird making eye contact with her..
8) Move fast: This doesnt apply either… i was the one who said i love you to her first. Although she was very quick from going from my professor to my friend.. She also moved from her ex (whom she loved) to me very quickly (2 months).
9) Pity play: after my family found out about me and her… she made it seem as it was their fault… She said “all i do is love you”… and cried… making me feel guilty. She even made me feel guilty for going thru her phone… completely ignoring the fact that she lied to me about her meeting with the ex.
10) Sexual magnetism: The sex was amazing. She knew exactly what to do. So yeh..
If i try to remove sex from our relationship… a BIG part of our relationship goes missing…
Do you all think one can really do this all for just SEX?
She always owned her own business to ber her “OWN BOSS”. She worked FOR clients but intially she is her own boss.. She controls her work.
And lastly… i want to add that she is a psychology master.. She has her masters degree in psychology and she worked with children.. (that was her speciality) but two years later she got tired and started working in Advertising… And now that is her field of work.
Please help me guys..
I just want to get rid of this GUILT and just move on..
I am convinced that there are many, many liars and con-artists in this world. And, they prey on people who are really good-hearted and sweet and VULNERABLE. Most socios I know end up having r/s’s with much YOUNGER people who look up to them and admire them because they are older.
They also mistake kindness for weakness, and find that if they can weaken you, by using your ‘insecurities’ to make you weaker..they can “hook” you.
When I met my xb/f and also my xhusb, who are both socios…(liars, control freaks, manipulators), I was at a low both times.
I was 33 when I met my xhusb/socio…My roommate bff just moved away, and I was lonely and worried about never getting married and having children. He came on strong and sucked me in. I married him and had 3 children with him and he slowly unveiled his mask. He was professionally diagnosed as being a sociopath by our marriage counsellor.
Then, 5 yrs of being alone, raising my children and just hanging out with friends and family….I met my xbf/socio.
I had anxiety from the start…I KNEW he was lying…caught him over and over…I didn’t trust him….Yet, his constant all day texts and proclamations of “love” and “want to marry you”…won me over. I didn’t set boundaries…He controlled me.
Finally, I ended it after 3 times going back..each time stronger and confronting him with the lies…
I look back now…at how I felt about myself when we met. Had I had high self esteem, and had I been super confident in myself, I would NEVER have let him convince me to have sex early on…I would NEVER have overlooked his obvious lies and not confronted him…I would NEVER take his control and manipulations! I was at a weak point in my life.
Now, I am free from the anxiety, being with someone I didn’t trust, and I KNOW that the next man I meet, I will be totally ME…STRONG and not afraid to be myself and voice my feeling. AND…ONE lie….its O V E R !!!!
The most DANGEROUS person……..is a liar!
RUN, lost, RUN!!!!
Get your confidence back. Pretend he died and left the face of the earth. REBUILD and move on. You will get the “old you” back. And, learn from this…next time around…the first lie…RUN!!!!
I wasted my time living in DENIAL. I was living in fantasyland..which is where he wanted me to be..in HIS fantasyworld……all lies.
There ARE normal people out there and if you push aside the disordered, you will bring healthy normal people into your life.
I will NEVER settle for a liar again. They are the lowest and most evil people on earth. ….and dangerous.
You are above that. Get healthy and keep it moving!!….
Dear Confused,
Start in the LF archives by subject and read about what a psychopath/sociopath IS. How they hook us, and keep on reading. Just read the articles for NOW in the archives (save the comments for later) and read and read and READ until you have read all 700+ of them.
It starts out learning to learn about them, but ends up learning to learn about ourselves.
NO CONTACT is a must. It allows your brain to start normalizing and getting over the ADDICTIVE chemical “love bomb” that she gave you. Sex is amazing and it releases chemicals that literally BOND us to them emotionally and physically. It doesn’t bond them because they actually lack the chemical receptors.
This is a big thing, so hang on, stay NC no matter what, and LEARN. KNOWLEDGE=POWER, so take back your power! You are in a good place to learn. (((hugs))))
OMG…just the lying alone should convince you. I feel the same way you do! The good part of him was the BEST I ever had…he called me every hour…professed his love for me all day….I even told my sister…”He says all the right things”..when we started dating. I thought he was the PERFECT man for me……until I caught him in lies.
I do feel that he was using me for the great sex. He even said that he was “addicted” to me. And he meant, “sexually”.
They are NOT normal!!! Normal people aren’t “charming”. I RUN from charmers. My mother’s oncologist called her the most “charming” woman he ever met. She was a sneaky liar, who abused all five of her children AND husband, …she cheated on my Dad while she accused HIM of cheating all of my life. She killed him….broke his heart and he died of a broken heart….massive heart attack from living daily with a Jekyl/Hyde! She caused all five of us to have low self esteem and anxiety disorders!
It will take time to stop the obsessive thinking. Let yourself think and process it…but put it all down in a journal and put it in your drafts. Its healing. After I left the Xbf the second time, I joined a gym, and woke up NOT even thinking of him at all..I filled my days with fun and doing things for myself. I pampered myself. By “round 3” I was a different person and I went back with him and I didn’t even want him anymore.
They use you for sexual satisfaction, emotional support, and for all the “supply” THEY need. When you get wise and stop allowwing them to control you, they RUN. And thats when you need to count your blessings.
Its difficult to process but the more you read about them, and the smarter you get about EVIL people….(read Scott Peck…People of the LIe and Betrayal Bond)..and the more you do for YOURSELF to pick yourself up and get confident again….the better you will feel.
Remember, you have to look into who YOU are and soul search how you feel about yourself….to change yourself so that you never let anyone control you again.
lostnconfused –
Hi and welcome. x. I’m sorry you have had this experience. I am glad for you that you are 20 and (by the sound of it) childless and have a reasonably savvy and supportive family. You are halfway there already, with more going for your recovery from this nasty-sounding person than most of us have had here.
Re-read all of the above replies to you; I agree with everything that everyone has said already but would like to re-emphasise a few points I feel are critical for you to digest:
1) 3 months is NOTHING honey. Zilch time. A dental appointment can take that long to get, or a court date. If in the past you have bounced back more quickly than this from a failed relationship, that is only because it was not as serious or as intense. Give it time and use the time to look after YOU. Don’t line up for another relationship just yet please – you would be doing yourself and the other person a disservice;
2) Checking other people’s emails/telephones is not normal, it IS a boundary crosser. The fact that you felt driven to do it screams insecurity and backs up what you said about things not feeling right. It was your “gut” telling you to bail; you heard wrong and thought that it was saying “hey – check the emails and phone”. Learn to listen to your gut and HEAR what it is saying. We all here have ignored or misinterpreted our gut’s voice to our peril, so we know what we are talking about;
3) It is hard to tell from your description if this person is a spath; maybe she is, maybe she’s just high enough on the PCL scale to register many spathy traits; maybe she is Personality Disordered some other way; or maybe she’d just an all-round bad egg. You have been given a gift that some of us never took or never got; some of us were trapped from 20 onwards for 15, 20, 30+ years with a person who was toxic. You have the opportunity to learn some really important stuff at a really young age; stuff that can help you set yourself up for a lifetime of healthy relationships. Embrace that opportunity, do the research and go back out into the world better-equipped to deal with the curve-balls (and the odd-balls) than most other 20-year-olds;
4) The obsessive feelings and cravings for this person will pass in time. Replace the time you would have spent with her doing good things to rebuild your self-esteem and your independence. If your family are good people, spend a bit of time with them. Volunteer at a DV shelter and educate yourself some more while you are there. Take a class in something just for fun. I don’t recall if you mentioned what you were studying but you need not continue studyng where she is – change courses or venues.
You will get through this if you STAY AWAY from the bad person.
lostnconfused,
the thinking of a socio is more lostnconfused than you are, so it’s hard to explain what she wanted from you. The answer is simply : EVERYTHING YOU HAVE. Your youth, your innocence, your soul.
On the surface we can say that you were a “trophy” for an older woman. She liked to know that she can still attract young ones.
But it wasn’t about having you, it was about TAKING you from you. She wanted to manipulate you. She wanted to know that she could push a button and make you go or stop, jump or lay down. She wanted to own you the way slave-owners owned slaves.
These ideas are hard for a normal person to understand.
When a stranger heard my story and told me, “Oh, that’s a malignant narcissist”, then explained what one was, I asked, “What did he want from me?”
The stranger said, “He wanted something you have.” I asked again, “what?” and the answer was the same. It’s because the answer is everything. The root of sociopathy is ENVY. They envy everything about everyone. If you had a million dollars and gave it all to her, but kept $10 for yourself, she would envy your $10. It’s not because she wants it, in fact she might just flush the whole million down the toilet. She just doesn’t want you to have it. She doesn’t want you to have youth and beauty, self esteem or even yourself.
The most perfect example of this is the story of the two mothers who approached King Solomon, both saying that they were the mother of a baby. King Solomon ruled that the fair thing would be to cut the baby in two and give each woman 1/2 the baby. The liar mother, agreed that this was fair. But the real mother was horrified and said, “No, I’d rather not have the baby than to have it killed” King Solomon knew that the psychopath didn’t want the baby, she just didn’t want the real mother to have it – she was envious. So he determined who the real mother was.
The only way to “get over” the fantasy is to understand it. You must read and read and read and never stop educating yourself on this. I know this stuff backward and forward but everyday I learn something new, here on LF.
If you do this you will find that this episode in your life was a gift. It will give you understanding of yourself and people in your life. There are so many of these monsters and they are hard to spot, being chameleons who mirror us. Only by have highly attuned radar and knowledge, will any of us be safe.
Lostnconfused,
Your inner-self knows what type of person you’ve been dealing with, sending messages to you all along. Sociopaths like power and control, being able to influence others (sometimes pretending to take care of others), doing it to feed their egos (not acting completely from the heart). I don’t think that I would feel too guilty about ditching her – her lying, deceptive ways should be telling you that she is no-good – there are better people (of all ages) to associate with, influencing you in far more positive ways. In a nutshell, the woman is not trustworthy and she’s one to stay away from. By the way, you’re not lost and you’re not confused – you’re figuring the dynamics of this “relationship” out.
Oh, BTW, Yes they are sooo good at sex.
They know where every last nerve ending is and how to work it. They test and feel out the words that titillate you. They are experts, but did you notice that it was all about getting you high? The exP never had me “do” anything. It was like being “worked on” by a prostitute. Yeah, it was amazing, but almost clinical.
Another thing is to really learn to listen to your “gut feelings”. We have them for a reason. Just like “Vibes” we get. Metaphysically speaking…everything vibrates. And when we get “bad vibes” from someone…listen to it!! Its our inner guidance system…always works.
When I started seeing my xbf, I started having “hot flashes”..so I thought. I had an anxiety attack and had to leave work one day, shaking. I was put on the estrogen patch, which caused all kinds of problems with lumps in my breast! Luckily I went off of them and broke up with my xbf and they ALL went away. It wasn’t the “hormones” ..it was my body telling me something evil was happenning to me.
Now, spiritually speaking….there is GOOD and EVIL in the world. My aunt used to say, “the closer you are to God…(meaning, the better person you are), the harder the “Devil” tries to get you! This is why predators and evil people..(socios, pathological liars, and manipulators) seek out “good” people! They try to suck you in and poison you and bring you down!
My xbf used to say that I was “an angel who fell from heaven”. To him, I was. I was SO good to him, loaned him money, and never spoke a bad word about anyone to him, or to him. (until the end,……lol..I called him a F&cking liar and cheater).
Well, they are really wolves in sheeps clothing. And I learned to stay clear of anyone I get bad vibes about. And, I wish I learned what I know now, at a younger age.
I was on an online dating site and met 2 predators/socio liars already! I asked one if I could do a background check ( he had all the signs…charming, came on strong fast…etc..) He flipped out and ran. Another one, who I actually spoke to on the phone….I got bad vibes about….I refused to meet him. He sent me an email that was nasty. omg. They ARE out there. Thank God I have my suit of armor on and I am wiser now and see right through them even through emails!
Count your blessings that you got wise and strong and left this horrific liar!!