By Ox Drover
After reading Steve Becker’s article yesterday, I commented that most of the articles here on Lovefraud that could be entitled “1001 Things I Did Wrong in Dealing with a Psychopath” were the ones that applied most to my own dealings with them.
That was meant as a joke, but after I left that comment for Steve, I got to thinking about how right-on it was, joke or not, because I have done so much wrong in dealing with these people. I got my self deeper and deeper into trouble, doing the wrong things in interacting with them. Not that I was intentionally doing something mean or “wrong” per se, but I didn’t make choices that led to positive outcomes in dealing with the psychopaths in my life.
One of the reasons I did 1001 things wrong was that I didn’t know what I was dealing with. I thought I was dealing with people who had good intentions toward me, just as I had good intentions toward them. Boy, was that a wrong thing to assume. But because I assumed this error in fact about their intentions, I tried to “be reasonable” with them. That sure didn’t work. They broke their word to me time and time again. It took me a long time “to get it through my thick skull,” as MaryJo Buttafuoco said in her book, and then, when I did get it through my thick head that “Person A” couldn’t be trusted, I didn’t “generalize” that knowledge to other people who also broke their words to me over and over and over again.
Learning to generalize
Even animals can learn to generalize. A friend and I trained steer, getting them used to “something that rattled.” It didn’t matter what rattled; we would use plastic milk jugs with rocks in them, and tie those jugs to their tails so that every time they took a step, this “rattling monster” attached to them would make noise and follow them. For a little while they were scared and ran from it, but eventually they got the idea that the “rattling monster” wasn’t going to be outrun by them (it always kept up), and it wasn’t actually going to hurt them. Eventually they decided anything that rattled and made noise was harmless.
With one set of young steers my friend trained though, if you got them used to a white jug with rocks in it, and they weren’t afraid of it any more, if you used a yellow jug, they would go back to SQUARE ONE PANIC AGAIN, with each tiny change in the “monster.” They didn’t “generalize” very well and were always hyper-alert and on guard. He eventually got them so they were “dynamite proof,” so he could take them out in public without being afraid they would panic at the first sound they weren’t used to, or the first loud retort from a fire cracker, but he and I both thought for a long time they might not ever generalize enough to be safe from panicking and running away out in public.
Abusive behavior
I think in a way I also didn’t “generalize” the abusive behaviors of the various psychopaths I encountered. When a boss would be dishonest and verbally abusive to me, I was upset and “panicked” at the unexpected behavior, trying to figure out how to not get hurt, but when a relative would do this same kind of behavior I, again, panicked and didn’t realize that the “rattle” was just the same kind of “monster” that I had encountered with the other psychopath. Of course I didn’t realize then that the psychopathic “monsters” had a name or that their lack of empathy and their damage was definitely destructive, unlike a milk jug with a few rocks in it.
I not only tried to be “reasonable” with the psychopaths, but I also tried to placate them, to make them see, by being extra nice to them and not “bowing up and fighting back,” that I wasn’t trying to hurt them. I wanted to be “friends” and get along.
Of course, when a prey animal tries to get along with a predator animal we know what happens, don’t we? The prey animal gets the worst end of the deal. Yep, I did get the worst end of the deal trying to “make nice” with the psychopaths, but again, I didn’t learn that a psychopath is a psychopath is a psychopath is a predator! Rather than generalize this hurtful behavior to a class of people, I saw each one as an individual person with “reasons” and “excuses” and the “potential to change” and “see the light” when there was no chance that they were going to have any empathy, much less sympathy, for the pain they caused me or anyone else. They didn’t give a hoot how badly they hurt me as long as they got what they wanted.
Wanted to get along
I also didn’t really see what it was that they actually wanted. I didn’t want to cause anyone any pain, I wanted to love people and get along with them and share good things and help folks out. This is what I thought that everyone wanted. What they actually did want, however, was to control me, humiliate me, and to get me to provide them with their own twisted idea of a relationship—all take on their part and all give on mine.
Just like the hyper-alert steers, I didn’t feel comfortable, and was always jumpy, expecting something to hit me, but I wasn’t sure where it would come from, so each time a psychopath lied to me, stole from me, took advantage of me, I was totally surprised again and again.
Eventually that young pair of steers got to where they were not surprised by anything in the way of a loud noise and they calmed down and became a reliable pair of working steers (oxen). But it was only because they learned to move from the individual to the general concepts of what would or would not hurt them. They learned that a little yappy dog running at their feet was not a danger, but that a large aggressive dog was something that they should kick at or hook at with their horns. They learned that the sound of a fire cracker or a car back firing, or a cannon shooting at a historical reenactment, wasn’t going to hurt them and they didn’t need to pay it any attention. They learned to distinguish between harmless noises like people yelling or laughing and their drover saying “get up” and meaning it!
I’m not sure why these particular steers were so difficult to train. Perhaps it was because the breed was the wilder Spanish cattle from Mexico whose ancestors that had not jumped every time there was a noise in the brush had been taken out of the gene pool by the wolves, coyotes and mountain lions, so only the “jumpy” ones were left.
Changed my response
I’m also not sure why I didn’t generalize from the abusive behavior I endured over and over, or change the failed attempts to get it to stop by doing repeatedly something that had not worked. Someone once said, “insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” I sure did enough of that for two lifetimes. Now I have changed the way I respond to abusive behavior. I am learning to distinguish the difference between “harmless rattles” and “real threats” from predators.
I have made some general “rules” to guide me in my differentiation of what is “harmless” and what is “threatening.” First off, it depends on how close to me the threat is. A rattle snake at 10 yards from me is no threat at all. I know he could hurt me if he was closer, but I will not let him get close enough to strike me, so I don’t have to fear him. If that same rattle snake is 3 feet from me, I take a different view of the potential for harm from the same snake, and react in a different way than I do to the one who is 30 feet away.
If a person who is not “close to me” lies to me, it probably isn’t going to be much of a danger to me, unless it is a big business deal. I don’t fear that lie from someone I don’t really have any connection with, I just notice (like with the rattle snake at a distance) that the person is dishonest, I don’t want him to get closer to me.
If a person who is “close to me” lies, that has a much bigger potential for harm to me, both emotionally and otherwise. Therefore I will move away from that dishonest person, put some distance between me and them so that if they do strike, they won’t be close enough to hit me or do any significant damage.
Threat or benign
Once I have determined that a person, animal, or object is a potential threat rather than a benign creature, I will keep a wary eye on it. I won’t make excuses for the potential damage, and once it has tried to hurt me, it won’t have another chance. I no longer trust anything or anyone without assessing the potential damage that could be done.
Cynical? No, I don’t think so, just cautious. I don’t venture into the world like there are no dangers out there, no evil people. I do know now that there are some evil creatures in the world, some potential threats to my life, sanity and health. But I no longer walk in terror, because I have realized what the evil creatures are. I am no longer terrified of the “rattling milk jugs,” but I give a wide berth to the “poison snakes.”
I’ve finally personally learned from the “1001e things I did wrong in dealing with psychopaths.”
Hi Eva,
welcome to LF, I’m so happy that it is helpful to you.
You are right that socipathic traits are all around, but I don’t think the traits can be separated from the person. In other words, where you see some traits, you WILL find the rest. Some of these people can hide some of the traits because they know about them. Some sociopaths are not very interested in making the effort to hurt others because they are lazy, or they are smart enough to want to stay out of jail.
Some have really good self control for the most part and will stick to hurting close family members. It is enough for them.
But I’m sure that what you speak of is that you are seeing it in our governments and institutions. Europeans are much more attuned to that than Americans are. Have you read “Political Ponerology?”
Dear twobehappy,
I hope you are not still on line dating, it is just such a hunting ground for psychopaths I think….I know there may be a few good people out there but so many use that screen to hide behind.
BE CAREFUL in any new relationship, but especially ones met online.
thank you all for your kind words..
More info abt my spath…
She was abused as a child from her mother.. her father passed away at a early age of her life… and her brother went missing when she was in her 20s…
She had no CONTROL over those things… could that be the reason why she is how she is? She was SUCH a control freak!!! She would flip out if things were not LINED up on the wall or something… or if our table at a resturant was off balance… she would complain and try and fix that..
She has lived alone her whole life…
She has no had any long term relationships.
She is so charming and is friendly with anyone..
She cared so much about her pets and would always do volunteer work (not that id seen it personally but so ive heard…)
I dont know.. im just so confused about her!
How can someone so nice be just so F***ing evil!!!
I have read so many articles here on LF and even spoke to Donna… and ALL YOU SAY THE SAME THING!
So i know you all are right.
Just addiction/obsession is driving me mad!!!!!!! I just want/need help so bad.
Its also time to awaken from the “illusion” they sucked you into. I was living in “fantasyland” with my xbf. He was too good to be true at first! As time went by, I kept saying that I want a “real” relationship. He would talk a good rap about how much he loved me, but his actions never showed it.
Funny, but all of my close friends and family, (who didn’t hear his proclamations of love to me over and over and his words like..”I wish I started my life with you…I’m so in love with you…I would kill for you”…) thought I was crazy, because he never did a thing for me and barely took me out anywhere….etc.. So, without the “lovebombing”…the “words”..the relationship was nothing but getting together to have sex! When I called him on it…he got angry and frustrated and ran!!! Of course, only to call me back and text me how much he loves me!
Its all CRAZYMAKING! Its all FAKE! Its all to get what THEY want and need!!! Its not real.
Check out Kaleah LaRoache’s site. She can help you find your way back to reality. Once you get there..its so much better.
Dear Confused,
We can lead you like a horse to “water” (articles and education) but YOU must drink it for it to do you any good!
Right now you sound tome like you are trying to talk yourself out of believing she is “evil.” Or a psychopath.
Do you believe Hitler was evil? Do you believe that Ted Bundy was evil? Do you believe that Charlie manson is Evil? How about the man who kidnapped Jaycee Dugard? Elizabeth Smart? How about the guy who beats his wife and kids, or rapes a child? Are they EVIL? What about someone who verbally abuses a child but doesn’t hit them? Are they evil? How about if they do it once? How about twice? How about 1000 times? where does it start to be “because their mother didn’t love them” and be about THEY CHOSE TO HURT SOMEONE ELSE?
She pits the profile from what you say. She doesn’t have long term relationships, lives alone….love bombs people. “Loves animals” (animals don’t make demands on you, they love you unconditionally) BTW animals are POSSESSIONS as well, and psychopaths tend to have things/people they own rather than responsive relationships.
Confused, YOU are the one who has to help yourself, to work on stopping the pain, and no one else can wave a magic wand and make the pain go away. I wish we could but we can’t.
Keep on reading, keep on learning. Cuss! Scream! Cry!!! Get some counseling! Scream. Cry, and cuss some more! IT WILL GET BETTER, I PROMISE YOU…JUST TAKES TIME. (((hugs))))
Lostnconfused –
“More info abt my spath”She was abused as a child from her mother.. her father passed away at a early age of her life” and her brother went missing when she was in her 20s””
Who told you this? Did she? If she did, couldn’t it also be lies? My ex told me similar, untrue stories. We don’t think to cross-check, because who on earth would make up such awful things? Oh yeah that’s right – a SPATH would!!! Pity plays. Sucks us in.
“She cared so much about her pets and would always do volunteer work (not that id seen it personally but so ive heard”)”
Heard from whom? From her? Same again then… although mine actually DID do some voluntary stuff to build himself a cover story and a profile in the small town we had just moved into – Mr Nice Guy who cared so much for his community. He dumped it all the minute they were onto him or they had served their purpose. As for caring for pets – I am an animal and wildlife carer (have been, as a a volunteer, since about the age of 16) so we always had pets. He professed he loved them and went on and on about how cute they were but never helped me with their care, just took the credit when I had successfully rehabilitated and released wild birds etc. or found a good home for the local stray cat after I had paid to have it vaccinated and sterilised out of my own money. (It then became “we did this” or “we did that” – he would talk about it, whereas I woud not because it’s just what I’ve always done – it’s no big deal for me, but for him it was part of his borrowed credibility). He used MY kind nature and goodness to advertise HIMSELF as a good guy.
When I moved out of the house, he said he would be so lonely there by himself once he came back so I offered to leave behind his favourite cat (who had been mine before we met) and his favourite parrot (a stray I had rescued). He agreed but when – a week after I vacated, he still hadn’t gone back to the house, I went to check on the cat and the parrot and found them with no food and no water – and it was Summer and HOT – so I took them home with me. He didn’t care about them at all – he was just stalling for another way to manipulate me by letting them starve to death.
She “lies about everything” right? Listen to yourself.
Thank you, skylar. No i haven’t read it yet. Seems now i’m paying attention to the malignity of “normal” people. I’ll let the politicians for further on because i suspect there’s a lot of psychopathic material there and now i have to prepare some exams and i have enough lapses with the daily “psychopaths”.
As you’ve mentioned animals i’ve remembered once the swiss was in my house and my cat that was then around 8 months old bite him playing and he said with very cold eyes “she’s biting me” and i laughed and said “yes, she’s playing because she’s a cub” he got rid of her and smiled without any pleasure but those eyes….later i realized it, were testing how horrified i would get if he crashed her against the wall or whatever. They’re horrible there’s no doubt. In my case there were little red flags but very serious ones because they were the anticipation of what would have been my future with him. I realized he was not extravagant but something very strange and dangerous, and i had the intuition there was something biological, and then started looking for information. I got shocked, he had all the traits very well marked (i didn’t knew about sexual cheating and juvenile delinquency, but i’m sure the promiscuity was there since the beginning, besides he had it very easy since we didn’t live toguether, just meet some weekends and short periods).
I have to sleep now, but i’ll come back. Hugs to all and thanks for the welcome.
Lostnconfused,
My h-spath is very charming, having a warm, pleasant, easy-going personality. He volunteers his time with Cub Scouts (our kids have been involved with scouts for years), enjoying doing things outdoors (camping, hiking, scuba diving, etc.). This man, I discovered over time, lies, cheats, steals, etc. What I have learned is disturbing, not having the stomach to know everything. His childhood wasn’t easy, having a sociopathic father (who physically abused all of his children) and a mother who didn’t bond with her children. His oldest sister was the mother to her brood of siblings (being forced to take on this role due to her own mother being “unaffectionate and unnurturing”), being the saving grace to most of them. I had a therapist tell me that antisocial personality disorder is caused by trauma in early childhood and a lack of bonding with parent(s) (having since learned that this isn’t always the case, a person can just inherit the disorder, developing it over time). In my h-spath’s case, I believe he had the genetic predisposition for the disorder and the lack of good parenting produced sociopathy in him. His oldest sister knows about her brother (some of his misdeeds), but the whole family protects their mother from knowing the truth about the h-spath, that’s my impression. She’s the queen, the children serving her by trying to make her life as pleasant as possible – I figure that the h-spath’s mother really doesn’t want to know the truth about anything – what her husband really was and about some of her own children’s troubles, not grasping how she contributed to the make-up of each child. This is what I’ve pretty much figured out during the time that I’ve been separated from the h-spath. Short story, these people are majorly dysfunctional, carrying on a charade of normalcy. Stay away from them because they can’t be cured.
It is SO important to listen to a persons childhood story. If it was severely disfunctional, and they haven’t sought therapy over the years….RUN!
I was raised by a sociopath. However, I left a r/s in my early 20’s because “I” had issues I knew I needed to resolve. I told the guy I was with, who was a wonderful ,honest, loyal man, that I was messed up and needed to live alone and self actualize before I become the “monster” I was raised with and abuse him!!! If you can’t beat the monster, you become the monster…my favorite saying.
I was mistrusting him, throwing things at him, and all screwed up. To this day, he is the only decent man that I ever was involved with! He is now divorced and would love to reunite, but we live so far away…who knows??
Anyway, when I met my xhusb and xbf, they both came from similar backgrounds. The xbf was the worst! His mother was a druggie who abandoned him and the other 8or 10 kids , when he was 10. None of them know who thier different fathers were! He was raised by a sick abusive tyrant grandmother.
Now, how could I think he could be normal? He had two failed marriages…a daughter who he doesn’t care for and grandkids he cares nothing about!
OMG….I must have been VERY lonely to see the signs and yet delve into it with him! As I said, he said all of the right things. SAID…not did.
I am SO happy to be away from him. The pain of feeling deep down that he was lying and sneaky…was worst than the pain of being alone now. I was hindering my opportunities to meet a normal man!
I will play my cards right next time around…I now know how to handle myself and how to have trust earned by the next guy. I will NEVER jump into intimacy with a man for several months and many talks and background checks!!
Yes, we come out of this WISER! I KNOW who I am now…and what I want and I have more confidence in myself. Since last year, I have worked hard on myself, physically and mentally. I responded to his pleas in July (probably because I was on drugs from my leg surgery..lol) and I rarely saw him. I didn’t feed into his “I love you” texts…didn’t sleep with him…voiced my feelings…If he didn’t take me out …I didn’t just jump for him to come over or go to his house (for sex).
Eventually, I was NOT a good supply. He wanted sex and I told him we need to rebuild our “friendship” and ‘trust’ first.
He was getting more and more angry…trying to manipulate me…lol. I actually laughed at him squirming to get me again!
Then I saw him back on a dating site…it was OVER.
Yes, there’s times I get angry when I think of how he lied and was sneaky while he fed me with his words…which didn’t work anymore!
They are MASTERS OF MANIPULATION! CON ARTISTS.
Wise people see through them and avoid them. I am wiser now. The wisdom I learned from being involved with a true sociopath, is priceless. Out of everything bad, a lesson is to be learned.
I also learned to THINK Positively. When I do feel anger or sadness….I learned to change my thoughts that make me feel this way. It takes conscious effort….but it works. Instead of thinking about him or what he did , or how I was fooled for awhile…I think of all good things I have to be thankful for and I envision myself happy with a wonderful man someday. …as I continue to take care of my body and mind and soul.
It all comes down to how we feel about ourselves.
omg aussiegirl… what a cruel piece of shit. Thank god you went back to check on those animals. “Favorite” cat my ass. It was probably all for show. Yes, these spaths will pull grand theatrics to appear as if they “love” animals. The same theatrics they’ll pull to show “what a good person they are”… all lies. They are a lie. I don’t even buy into their B.S. about their childhoods.. all just hooks.