By Ox Drover
After reading Steve Becker’s article yesterday, I commented that most of the articles here on Lovefraud that could be entitled “1001 Things I Did Wrong in Dealing with a Psychopath” were the ones that applied most to my own dealings with them.
That was meant as a joke, but after I left that comment for Steve, I got to thinking about how right-on it was, joke or not, because I have done so much wrong in dealing with these people. I got my self deeper and deeper into trouble, doing the wrong things in interacting with them. Not that I was intentionally doing something mean or “wrong” per se, but I didn’t make choices that led to positive outcomes in dealing with the psychopaths in my life.
One of the reasons I did 1001 things wrong was that I didn’t know what I was dealing with. I thought I was dealing with people who had good intentions toward me, just as I had good intentions toward them. Boy, was that a wrong thing to assume. But because I assumed this error in fact about their intentions, I tried to “be reasonable” with them. That sure didn’t work. They broke their word to me time and time again. It took me a long time “to get it through my thick skull,” as MaryJo Buttafuoco said in her book, and then, when I did get it through my thick head that “Person A” couldn’t be trusted, I didn’t “generalize” that knowledge to other people who also broke their words to me over and over and over again.
Learning to generalize
Even animals can learn to generalize. A friend and I trained steer, getting them used to “something that rattled.” It didn’t matter what rattled; we would use plastic milk jugs with rocks in them, and tie those jugs to their tails so that every time they took a step, this “rattling monster” attached to them would make noise and follow them. For a little while they were scared and ran from it, but eventually they got the idea that the “rattling monster” wasn’t going to be outrun by them (it always kept up), and it wasn’t actually going to hurt them. Eventually they decided anything that rattled and made noise was harmless.
With one set of young steers my friend trained though, if you got them used to a white jug with rocks in it, and they weren’t afraid of it any more, if you used a yellow jug, they would go back to SQUARE ONE PANIC AGAIN, with each tiny change in the “monster.” They didn’t “generalize” very well and were always hyper-alert and on guard. He eventually got them so they were “dynamite proof,” so he could take them out in public without being afraid they would panic at the first sound they weren’t used to, or the first loud retort from a fire cracker, but he and I both thought for a long time they might not ever generalize enough to be safe from panicking and running away out in public.
Abusive behavior
I think in a way I also didn’t “generalize” the abusive behaviors of the various psychopaths I encountered. When a boss would be dishonest and verbally abusive to me, I was upset and “panicked” at the unexpected behavior, trying to figure out how to not get hurt, but when a relative would do this same kind of behavior I, again, panicked and didn’t realize that the “rattle” was just the same kind of “monster” that I had encountered with the other psychopath. Of course I didn’t realize then that the psychopathic “monsters” had a name or that their lack of empathy and their damage was definitely destructive, unlike a milk jug with a few rocks in it.
I not only tried to be “reasonable” with the psychopaths, but I also tried to placate them, to make them see, by being extra nice to them and not “bowing up and fighting back,” that I wasn’t trying to hurt them. I wanted to be “friends” and get along.
Of course, when a prey animal tries to get along with a predator animal we know what happens, don’t we? The prey animal gets the worst end of the deal. Yep, I did get the worst end of the deal trying to “make nice” with the psychopaths, but again, I didn’t learn that a psychopath is a psychopath is a psychopath is a predator! Rather than generalize this hurtful behavior to a class of people, I saw each one as an individual person with “reasons” and “excuses” and the “potential to change” and “see the light” when there was no chance that they were going to have any empathy, much less sympathy, for the pain they caused me or anyone else. They didn’t give a hoot how badly they hurt me as long as they got what they wanted.
Wanted to get along
I also didn’t really see what it was that they actually wanted. I didn’t want to cause anyone any pain, I wanted to love people and get along with them and share good things and help folks out. This is what I thought that everyone wanted. What they actually did want, however, was to control me, humiliate me, and to get me to provide them with their own twisted idea of a relationship—all take on their part and all give on mine.
Just like the hyper-alert steers, I didn’t feel comfortable, and was always jumpy, expecting something to hit me, but I wasn’t sure where it would come from, so each time a psychopath lied to me, stole from me, took advantage of me, I was totally surprised again and again.
Eventually that young pair of steers got to where they were not surprised by anything in the way of a loud noise and they calmed down and became a reliable pair of working steers (oxen). But it was only because they learned to move from the individual to the general concepts of what would or would not hurt them. They learned that a little yappy dog running at their feet was not a danger, but that a large aggressive dog was something that they should kick at or hook at with their horns. They learned that the sound of a fire cracker or a car back firing, or a cannon shooting at a historical reenactment, wasn’t going to hurt them and they didn’t need to pay it any attention. They learned to distinguish between harmless noises like people yelling or laughing and their drover saying “get up” and meaning it!
I’m not sure why these particular steers were so difficult to train. Perhaps it was because the breed was the wilder Spanish cattle from Mexico whose ancestors that had not jumped every time there was a noise in the brush had been taken out of the gene pool by the wolves, coyotes and mountain lions, so only the “jumpy” ones were left.
Changed my response
I’m also not sure why I didn’t generalize from the abusive behavior I endured over and over, or change the failed attempts to get it to stop by doing repeatedly something that had not worked. Someone once said, “insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” I sure did enough of that for two lifetimes. Now I have changed the way I respond to abusive behavior. I am learning to distinguish the difference between “harmless rattles” and “real threats” from predators.
I have made some general “rules” to guide me in my differentiation of what is “harmless” and what is “threatening.” First off, it depends on how close to me the threat is. A rattle snake at 10 yards from me is no threat at all. I know he could hurt me if he was closer, but I will not let him get close enough to strike me, so I don’t have to fear him. If that same rattle snake is 3 feet from me, I take a different view of the potential for harm from the same snake, and react in a different way than I do to the one who is 30 feet away.
If a person who is not “close to me” lies to me, it probably isn’t going to be much of a danger to me, unless it is a big business deal. I don’t fear that lie from someone I don’t really have any connection with, I just notice (like with the rattle snake at a distance) that the person is dishonest, I don’t want him to get closer to me.
If a person who is “close to me” lies, that has a much bigger potential for harm to me, both emotionally and otherwise. Therefore I will move away from that dishonest person, put some distance between me and them so that if they do strike, they won’t be close enough to hit me or do any significant damage.
Threat or benign
Once I have determined that a person, animal, or object is a potential threat rather than a benign creature, I will keep a wary eye on it. I won’t make excuses for the potential damage, and once it has tried to hurt me, it won’t have another chance. I no longer trust anything or anyone without assessing the potential damage that could be done.
Cynical? No, I don’t think so, just cautious. I don’t venture into the world like there are no dangers out there, no evil people. I do know now that there are some evil creatures in the world, some potential threats to my life, sanity and health. But I no longer walk in terror, because I have realized what the evil creatures are. I am no longer terrified of the “rattling milk jugs,” but I give a wide berth to the “poison snakes.”
I’ve finally personally learned from the “1001e things I did wrong in dealing with psychopaths.”
Haha, thought someone may have heard of them ’round here. They’re THAT good. 😉
dancingnancies –
You funny thing! You and me ARE getting it together with the whole gardening concept now, ain’t we? xx 😉
Hi Everyone,
I know she was abused as a child because that was ONE THING THAT WAS CONSISTENT in her story.
Also, i just recently read an interview of her mother posted online about 5 years ago that explained the fathers death and the brothers disapperarance.
So i knw she had a disturbed childhood..
But i shouldnt care about her childhood.. i shouldnt care about HER!!!
But i do!
Thats the part that bothers me so much… i still care..
I havent seen her in over 3 months but if i ever do… i dont know what i would do. I have such a soft corner for her in my heart.
My mind keeps thinking… “She didnt want to break up wit hyou…. so how can she possibly be wrong?!! YOU ARE THINKING too negative about her.. call her and sort things out.” But i know if i call her.. she will lie to me again and again.
Being so young… with someone so much older… i got involved so much. So so much…
As i mentioned before… she became an addiction that is still very much in my system.
Sometimes i think that the reason why my mother found out about me and my spath and took me away because… she saved me from something worse that coulve happened.
I read stories about you guys that have been MARRIED and have CHILDREN with spaths and your situations is a thousand times worse than mine… But mine still hurt.
I feel like i am betraying someone who did nothing wrong to me. I overlook all her bad qualities and think about only the good times.
My mother and my ex boyfriend (who i left, for my spath) has been helping me out with this situation eveeryday. Everyday i am crying and feeling helpless. Guilty and miserable.
I dont want to betray people that i KNOW love me (my mom and ex bf) for someone who i am UNSURE ever even loved me…
I just want to know why i feel so guilty.
I lost everything in that relationship. My Family, my friends, my job, i quit school, and most importantly myself.
She was nothing but nice to me but somehow i lost all thosethings.
I lost my family because i was never home to spend anytime with them.
I lost my friends because they got tired of me complaining or talking aboiut my spath in general. (They also think i was completely obsessed).
I lost my job because i started doing really bad at it.
I quit school because my mother is afraid i might run into my spath there.
and i lost myself because i was a happy, fun, loving girl. Now i am a miserable confused person.
All this time… she never tried to take anything away from me. She only gave me love and support.. but i lost everything i mentioned about… Everything essential in my life.
I became just like her. Alone.
I also wanted to mention when my family found out abotu us.. i left home to live with my spath. She said “You can stay here as long as you want”. I only stayed for 2 days because i couldnt be without my family.
She not once tried to tell me go back home to sort things out with my family.. Not once.
She said “I could get used to you living here”
I just feel… confused and guilty.
lostandcofused – guilt? I think it’s shame. It would be a really good idea to get into counseling, to have a patient caring support as you unravel what has happened, and someone who can help you get back on your feet again.
you need to shift your focus to your life and you, and away from her. i know you probably don’t have a good sense of how to do that, but reading and posting here is part of it; and counseling would help also. you need to depend on someone trustworthy to help you through this.
Dear EVa,
I understand your need to stand up to him, to tell him you KNOW what he is…but unfortunately it is like waving a cape at a bull, they are going to charge you.
As a student, he has you in his power to fail your course,, and there is probably not a thing you can do about it now.
Learning to hold ourselves quiet in the face of a powerful person who has arrogance and spite is difficult, because you are right, it is NOT FAIR.
I had a teacher like that in college and I managed to get through the first class with her, but I would have had to take two more years of classes with her and I knew somewhere in that two years I would have gotten on her “bad side” and she could have failed me and I could not have passed, so I changed universities in the middle of my course in order to get away from her.
I found other teachers just like her, very arrogant and oppressive, but none that I had to have for many classes, or for classes that I HAD to have or fail the entire degree, so I managed to get by and finish.
The problem is that we will run up against these types of people in all aspects of our lives…they will be our neighbors, our bosses, our co-workers, our children’s teachers, the cop on the beat, the politician, the land lord, the judge,, the attorney…they are everywhere in all degrees from somewhat arrogant to serial killer and everything in between.
I wish I could tell you an easy way out with this man, but at this point the ONLY way I see “out” for you not failing the entire class is to grovel and crawl and give him the satisfaction of YOU MAKING AN APOLOGY and coming up with some excuse why you acted so BADLY. He may still not “buy” an apology and may still want to fail you just so he can “punish” you and “show you who is boss” but at this point I would think the best way would be to go to him and say “Oh, professor, I am so sorry I acted so badly and I said such horrible untrue things to you, please forgive me….you are so wonderful, Ya da” (I know, PUKE!!!) Play to his arrogance and hope you can get through the class, then realize that you have had an opportunity here to LEARN A VALUABLE LESSON about dealing with psychopaths and arrogant people who are in power over your needs and desires, there are times to confront them, and times NOT to. Now you know the difference. ((((Hugs))))) By the way, I learned this lesson the HARD WAY by doing it wrong many times so you are not the only one who has done so, my dear, and at least you have the excuse of being young….I was much older and still doing it wrong! (((Hugs))))
I am re running this as It was suggested because it was late last night and want to get ti out to as many as I can. I really need a good lawyer and advice from all of you on this as any choices made dealing with soiciopaths will be very challanging and even dangerous but in this case I am willing to take the chance for my grand children.
This is the best article I have read that really hit home. As much as I hate to admit it my daughter is a P to. This article really explains my situation to a T. The snakes are crawling all the time. I am thinking very hard and sincere about taking my daughter to court for custody or joint custody of these children. What I need is a good lawyer and have no clue how to find one. Does anyone know any good lawyers in Northern Alberta Canada could use all the help I can get on this. I know what my consequences with my daughter will be win or lose but at this point I have nothing more to loose. I need to be able to live with myself so I have to do the right thing and may god help us all.
Eva,
Oxy is right. You have to be completely professional and unemotional. When you apologize, be sincere, but don’t show emotion. I’m not taking his side or your side, because I wasn’t there and really don’t know if there was a misunderstanding or not. Just remember that he is your teacher and you must at least give him the benefit of the doubt ON THE SURFACE. Remember that the end goal is to get your degree, so don’t try to win all the battles, just win the war.
This will be good practice for you to learn to control your emotions in front of spaths. They eat emotion for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Don’t feed the spaths.
Dear Eva,
Yes,, we must not be impulsive and speak before we think. I have let my MOUTH run off too many times! Laugh and I have had to “eat my words” without salad dressing too many times as well.
They are not nice to eat when we have spoken them before we stopped and thought.
When you are dealing with a person who has POWER OVER YOU, like a boss or a teacher, even if we know they are not fair or honest, sometimes we must just do what we must do to get through the day and later see how we must deal with them for OUR BEST RESULTS. It is satisfying sometimes (short term) to tell them off, but too many times telling them off just gets us in deeper problems because of their power over our situations.
Sure, it is not fair, and it makes us want to choke or throw up, but sometimes “the better part of valor” is to survive to fight another day. Letting a psychopath know that you are “on to” them sometimes (most times) backfires in our faces!
GETTING AWAY from them is the best possible solution, but it is not always possible to get away, so we must learn to deal with them in the way that gives us the LEAST POSSIBLE DAMAGE.
Ox Drover and everyone else.
Thank you very much for your words.
They help so so much.
Its just so weird to think that someone you trusted so much is such a cruel, evil person.
And as my mother says… if it looks like a dog, smells like a dog, barks like a dog, its a dog!!
I just want to know.. how to get rid of this guilt i feel for this person.
Unlike you all… i have NOT seen her evil side… which is where i guess i was lucky.
Dear confused,
Oh, yes you have seen her evil side. EVERY TIME SHE LIED. Lies are a wonderful RED FLAG that show the evil tip of the EVIL ICEBERG, so you may have only see the TIP of the evil, but you have seen it….an d where there is a tip of evil sticking out, there is a bigger berg of it underwater waiting to SINK YOUR SHIP!