By Ox Drover
After reading Steve Becker’s article yesterday, I commented that most of the articles here on Lovefraud that could be entitled “1001 Things I Did Wrong in Dealing with a Psychopath” were the ones that applied most to my own dealings with them.
That was meant as a joke, but after I left that comment for Steve, I got to thinking about how right-on it was, joke or not, because I have done so much wrong in dealing with these people. I got my self deeper and deeper into trouble, doing the wrong things in interacting with them. Not that I was intentionally doing something mean or “wrong” per se, but I didn’t make choices that led to positive outcomes in dealing with the psychopaths in my life.
One of the reasons I did 1001 things wrong was that I didn’t know what I was dealing with. I thought I was dealing with people who had good intentions toward me, just as I had good intentions toward them. Boy, was that a wrong thing to assume. But because I assumed this error in fact about their intentions, I tried to “be reasonable” with them. That sure didn’t work. They broke their word to me time and time again. It took me a long time “to get it through my thick skull,” as MaryJo Buttafuoco said in her book, and then, when I did get it through my thick head that “Person A” couldn’t be trusted, I didn’t “generalize” that knowledge to other people who also broke their words to me over and over and over again.
Learning to generalize
Even animals can learn to generalize. A friend and I trained steer, getting them used to “something that rattled.” It didn’t matter what rattled; we would use plastic milk jugs with rocks in them, and tie those jugs to their tails so that every time they took a step, this “rattling monster” attached to them would make noise and follow them. For a little while they were scared and ran from it, but eventually they got the idea that the “rattling monster” wasn’t going to be outrun by them (it always kept up), and it wasn’t actually going to hurt them. Eventually they decided anything that rattled and made noise was harmless.
With one set of young steers my friend trained though, if you got them used to a white jug with rocks in it, and they weren’t afraid of it any more, if you used a yellow jug, they would go back to SQUARE ONE PANIC AGAIN, with each tiny change in the “monster.” They didn’t “generalize” very well and were always hyper-alert and on guard. He eventually got them so they were “dynamite proof,” so he could take them out in public without being afraid they would panic at the first sound they weren’t used to, or the first loud retort from a fire cracker, but he and I both thought for a long time they might not ever generalize enough to be safe from panicking and running away out in public.
Abusive behavior
I think in a way I also didn’t “generalize” the abusive behaviors of the various psychopaths I encountered. When a boss would be dishonest and verbally abusive to me, I was upset and “panicked” at the unexpected behavior, trying to figure out how to not get hurt, but when a relative would do this same kind of behavior I, again, panicked and didn’t realize that the “rattle” was just the same kind of “monster” that I had encountered with the other psychopath. Of course I didn’t realize then that the psychopathic “monsters” had a name or that their lack of empathy and their damage was definitely destructive, unlike a milk jug with a few rocks in it.
I not only tried to be “reasonable” with the psychopaths, but I also tried to placate them, to make them see, by being extra nice to them and not “bowing up and fighting back,” that I wasn’t trying to hurt them. I wanted to be “friends” and get along.
Of course, when a prey animal tries to get along with a predator animal we know what happens, don’t we? The prey animal gets the worst end of the deal. Yep, I did get the worst end of the deal trying to “make nice” with the psychopaths, but again, I didn’t learn that a psychopath is a psychopath is a psychopath is a predator! Rather than generalize this hurtful behavior to a class of people, I saw each one as an individual person with “reasons” and “excuses” and the “potential to change” and “see the light” when there was no chance that they were going to have any empathy, much less sympathy, for the pain they caused me or anyone else. They didn’t give a hoot how badly they hurt me as long as they got what they wanted.
Wanted to get along
I also didn’t really see what it was that they actually wanted. I didn’t want to cause anyone any pain, I wanted to love people and get along with them and share good things and help folks out. This is what I thought that everyone wanted. What they actually did want, however, was to control me, humiliate me, and to get me to provide them with their own twisted idea of a relationship—all take on their part and all give on mine.
Just like the hyper-alert steers, I didn’t feel comfortable, and was always jumpy, expecting something to hit me, but I wasn’t sure where it would come from, so each time a psychopath lied to me, stole from me, took advantage of me, I was totally surprised again and again.
Eventually that young pair of steers got to where they were not surprised by anything in the way of a loud noise and they calmed down and became a reliable pair of working steers (oxen). But it was only because they learned to move from the individual to the general concepts of what would or would not hurt them. They learned that a little yappy dog running at their feet was not a danger, but that a large aggressive dog was something that they should kick at or hook at with their horns. They learned that the sound of a fire cracker or a car back firing, or a cannon shooting at a historical reenactment, wasn’t going to hurt them and they didn’t need to pay it any attention. They learned to distinguish between harmless noises like people yelling or laughing and their drover saying “get up” and meaning it!
I’m not sure why these particular steers were so difficult to train. Perhaps it was because the breed was the wilder Spanish cattle from Mexico whose ancestors that had not jumped every time there was a noise in the brush had been taken out of the gene pool by the wolves, coyotes and mountain lions, so only the “jumpy” ones were left.
Changed my response
I’m also not sure why I didn’t generalize from the abusive behavior I endured over and over, or change the failed attempts to get it to stop by doing repeatedly something that had not worked. Someone once said, “insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” I sure did enough of that for two lifetimes. Now I have changed the way I respond to abusive behavior. I am learning to distinguish the difference between “harmless rattles” and “real threats” from predators.
I have made some general “rules” to guide me in my differentiation of what is “harmless” and what is “threatening.” First off, it depends on how close to me the threat is. A rattle snake at 10 yards from me is no threat at all. I know he could hurt me if he was closer, but I will not let him get close enough to strike me, so I don’t have to fear him. If that same rattle snake is 3 feet from me, I take a different view of the potential for harm from the same snake, and react in a different way than I do to the one who is 30 feet away.
If a person who is not “close to me” lies to me, it probably isn’t going to be much of a danger to me, unless it is a big business deal. I don’t fear that lie from someone I don’t really have any connection with, I just notice (like with the rattle snake at a distance) that the person is dishonest, I don’t want him to get closer to me.
If a person who is “close to me” lies, that has a much bigger potential for harm to me, both emotionally and otherwise. Therefore I will move away from that dishonest person, put some distance between me and them so that if they do strike, they won’t be close enough to hit me or do any significant damage.
Threat or benign
Once I have determined that a person, animal, or object is a potential threat rather than a benign creature, I will keep a wary eye on it. I won’t make excuses for the potential damage, and once it has tried to hurt me, it won’t have another chance. I no longer trust anything or anyone without assessing the potential damage that could be done.
Cynical? No, I don’t think so, just cautious. I don’t venture into the world like there are no dangers out there, no evil people. I do know now that there are some evil creatures in the world, some potential threats to my life, sanity and health. But I no longer walk in terror, because I have realized what the evil creatures are. I am no longer terrified of the “rattling milk jugs,” but I give a wide berth to the “poison snakes.”
I’ve finally personally learned from the “1001e things I did wrong in dealing with psychopaths.”
Good Evening All,
Read Steve’s old post “I’m Not a Sociopath” lol tears streaming from my eyes. ROFLMAO loud. thanks for that.
Some of the thread was deleted I think b/c I couldn’t figure out what happened toward the end??????
Any way it’s been a great day today.
Freemama: You have been in my thoughts all day—hope you find strength here. I know I have.
Skylar,
hmm..I initiated the first kiss with mine too. the more and more I read the more I sit and shake my head in astonishment. He came over and sat on my couch and I could tell he wanted to kiss me but wouldn’t do it…I just thought he was shy’ish…and then he sort of laughed and said…well…this is awkward…so I kissed him bc he seemed scared to do it…and then…you know the rest.
I will be moved in less than a week now! I will be hours away from Spath. I am laying on the floor in my bedroom typing on LF because I sold most of my furniture on Craigs List…this is not related to anything that anybody wrote but I will just say..not like you guys don’t already know this but…Be really careful if you ever try to sell things on Craigs List…I got some really weird responses. Strangers in general freak me out for the most part now bc I don’t really trust anybody so it made me pretty nervous to sell stuff like that and have to tell people where I live… but…you can sell stuff pretty fast on that site as long as you price it low enough.
I would advise that anytime you let strangers into your house you have another person there, like a large male friend and don’t tell any “visitors” that he doesn’t live there or anything about when you will be done or moving etc. If the item for sale is small enough to transport, then I would meet them somewhere besides at your home, even if it is just a block or two down the street.
I’m getting more and more cautious about having TOTAL strangers into my home for any reason, especially off the internet.
Oxy, I know I was pretty dumb but I really needed to sell the stuff. 🙁 When I moved here for my job, I was by myself and soon after that I met the spath..so most of the people that I knew ended up being people that I met through him so needless to say, I can’t really call them anymore and I don’t really want to trouble someone that I work with or my neighbors. It was kind of hard to meet friends of my own when I was always in such “crazy mode” bc of him. I am pretty much completely alone here except for 2 friends..1 is the girlfriend of the spaths “best friend.” At least he thinks he is the spaths best friend…but the spath manipulates him the same way as he did me but on a friend level. Anyway, his gf has seen my spath in action when she was with me so she believes me about how he is and what he has done and she is the only one I still talk to that has any connection to him at all..the other friend is a girl I met when I ventured out one night..She is really nice and we get along really well but she isn’t avail. much b/c she has a boyfriend and 2 kids that keep her busy.
Well, I at least had the Craigs list people buying the stuff to meet me by the mailboxes first so I could check them out..I guess I am not usually a good judge of character or I would probably not be here on LF but I felt better meeting them there first…I would tell them what complex I lived in but not the apmt #…still probably not very smart…I am 31 and I guess I still have a whole lot to learn. *sigh* I am just very glad to go home to my family..and friends that I have had since like 4th grade. They are not physically here but I still talk to them almost everyday. Sorry for changing the subject. :/
Mendingthebrokenpieces,
Darling you are NOT DUMB!!! That was not the point of my post! The thing is that we are not taught to be CAUTIOUS or UNTRUSTING (or we wouldn’t be here on LF! LOL) I am a LOT MORE cautious than I was before, and believe me I learned the hard way. When I was your age I was still picking up hitchhikers! LOL
I am glad that you are moving back to your support network too! That is very important. Being isolated from that network leaves us much more vulnerable!
Aww..I didn’t think you were calling me dumb…And…even if you would have called me dumb…I probably would have nodded and said..yeah..that was pretty dumb lol…I value your opinion and advice…when I first got on this site I was really confused and hurt and you really helped me to see what I was dealing with and still do help me when I have an emotional “relapse” and I appreciate it. One thing that I took out of this mess with the spath is that someone could probably stand and scream all sorts of nasty things at me and call me names and I probably wouldn’t react much because I got so used to it… not sure if that is a good thing or bad. Things that people used to do at work that may have upset me before…now I just walk away and think..ehh…whatever. I guess anything that anyone does now is pretty minor compared to the stuff he would do.
Thanks for calling me by my new name! You like it better? 🙂
Dear Mending,
Yep I do like it better and I’m glad that you are moving on and getting better and stronger. (((hugs)))):)
It takes TIME and WORK to learn and grow, so don’t push yourself too fast, just take things one step at a time, and realize that YOU can validate yourself.
You deserve to be treated well, and people will treat you as well as you make them treat you. Just do not allow people to treat you poorly, but don’t explode on them or let them upset you where you “lose it.” Sure you have to Be around arseholes at work, neighbors etc. but you don’t have to let their behavior get to you EMOTIONALLY or HURT YOU.
Keep those people out of your circle of trust! Don’t ever give that trust away, people must earn it by being HONEST WITH YOU, and if they are dishonest with anyone, they WILL be dishonest with you. YOU DESERVE better than a dishonest person’s betrayal! I am glad that you are learning these things at a younger age than I did—better late than never, but the younger the better! You are doing great! Taking control of getting rid of your “stuff” you don’t need and regaining your support base—that is GREAT!!!!
Hi all.
Wanted to share a quick post i read on a random website.
“Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. – 1 Corinthians 13:5-7
yes sociopaths are capable of caring wonderfully for their pets but they don’t care wonderfully for their children because the sociopath is lacking important nurturing emotions to raise a healthy minded child.
they may learn tools as being attentive sex partners, happy child like behaviors playing games with others so long as they get what they want.
Keep in mind, the person is mentally ill forever with or without a diagnoses of this antisocial disorder.
They can never feel empathy and since that is so, they aren’t equipped to being a loyal,loving, trustworthy, intimate partner for a length of time but keep in mind, they are clever and have survival instincts and able to act (perform) till they get what they want, when they want but they can’t maintain that ideal forever, soon the intimate partner will experience the sociopath’s terrorist personality.
Now the sociopath knows they have been caught with their hand in the cookie jar and hell will break loose and the sane person will get lost in confusion and chaos until they are rescued by someone or escape on their own and out of that sick relationship”
It helped me.. maybe it will help u all too!
I know this is an old thread, but I thought it was relevant.
I would like some help.
A few weeks ago, Oxy and Skylar gave me a few “gold nuggets” that I really thought were useful things to say under my breath, rather than letting my thoughts swirl in negativity, in an unfocused way.
These are:
1) I AM NO LONGER PARTICIPATING IN THIS.
2) I HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO.
I would really like to come up with a few other VERY POSITIVE and FORWARD looking things to say to myself rather than look backwards and feel bad.
Any suggestions?
SK
Superkid,
how about:
when a door closes, another one always opens….
I’m closing the door on this negative energy so that new and better doors can open. I’m looking forward to those new doors.