By Ox Drover
After reading Steve Becker’s article yesterday, I commented that most of the articles here on Lovefraud that could be entitled “1001 Things I Did Wrong in Dealing with a Psychopath” were the ones that applied most to my own dealings with them.
That was meant as a joke, but after I left that comment for Steve, I got to thinking about how right-on it was, joke or not, because I have done so much wrong in dealing with these people. I got my self deeper and deeper into trouble, doing the wrong things in interacting with them. Not that I was intentionally doing something mean or “wrong” per se, but I didn’t make choices that led to positive outcomes in dealing with the psychopaths in my life.
One of the reasons I did 1001 things wrong was that I didn’t know what I was dealing with. I thought I was dealing with people who had good intentions toward me, just as I had good intentions toward them. Boy, was that a wrong thing to assume. But because I assumed this error in fact about their intentions, I tried to “be reasonable” with them. That sure didn’t work. They broke their word to me time and time again. It took me a long time “to get it through my thick skull,” as MaryJo Buttafuoco said in her book, and then, when I did get it through my thick head that “Person A” couldn’t be trusted, I didn’t “generalize” that knowledge to other people who also broke their words to me over and over and over again.
Learning to generalize
Even animals can learn to generalize. A friend and I trained steer, getting them used to “something that rattled.” It didn’t matter what rattled; we would use plastic milk jugs with rocks in them, and tie those jugs to their tails so that every time they took a step, this “rattling monster” attached to them would make noise and follow them. For a little while they were scared and ran from it, but eventually they got the idea that the “rattling monster” wasn’t going to be outrun by them (it always kept up), and it wasn’t actually going to hurt them. Eventually they decided anything that rattled and made noise was harmless.
With one set of young steers my friend trained though, if you got them used to a white jug with rocks in it, and they weren’t afraid of it any more, if you used a yellow jug, they would go back to SQUARE ONE PANIC AGAIN, with each tiny change in the “monster.” They didn’t “generalize” very well and were always hyper-alert and on guard. He eventually got them so they were “dynamite proof,” so he could take them out in public without being afraid they would panic at the first sound they weren’t used to, or the first loud retort from a fire cracker, but he and I both thought for a long time they might not ever generalize enough to be safe from panicking and running away out in public.
Abusive behavior
I think in a way I also didn’t “generalize” the abusive behaviors of the various psychopaths I encountered. When a boss would be dishonest and verbally abusive to me, I was upset and “panicked” at the unexpected behavior, trying to figure out how to not get hurt, but when a relative would do this same kind of behavior I, again, panicked and didn’t realize that the “rattle” was just the same kind of “monster” that I had encountered with the other psychopath. Of course I didn’t realize then that the psychopathic “monsters” had a name or that their lack of empathy and their damage was definitely destructive, unlike a milk jug with a few rocks in it.
I not only tried to be “reasonable” with the psychopaths, but I also tried to placate them, to make them see, by being extra nice to them and not “bowing up and fighting back,” that I wasn’t trying to hurt them. I wanted to be “friends” and get along.
Of course, when a prey animal tries to get along with a predator animal we know what happens, don’t we? The prey animal gets the worst end of the deal. Yep, I did get the worst end of the deal trying to “make nice” with the psychopaths, but again, I didn’t learn that a psychopath is a psychopath is a psychopath is a predator! Rather than generalize this hurtful behavior to a class of people, I saw each one as an individual person with “reasons” and “excuses” and the “potential to change” and “see the light” when there was no chance that they were going to have any empathy, much less sympathy, for the pain they caused me or anyone else. They didn’t give a hoot how badly they hurt me as long as they got what they wanted.
Wanted to get along
I also didn’t really see what it was that they actually wanted. I didn’t want to cause anyone any pain, I wanted to love people and get along with them and share good things and help folks out. This is what I thought that everyone wanted. What they actually did want, however, was to control me, humiliate me, and to get me to provide them with their own twisted idea of a relationship—all take on their part and all give on mine.
Just like the hyper-alert steers, I didn’t feel comfortable, and was always jumpy, expecting something to hit me, but I wasn’t sure where it would come from, so each time a psychopath lied to me, stole from me, took advantage of me, I was totally surprised again and again.
Eventually that young pair of steers got to where they were not surprised by anything in the way of a loud noise and they calmed down and became a reliable pair of working steers (oxen). But it was only because they learned to move from the individual to the general concepts of what would or would not hurt them. They learned that a little yappy dog running at their feet was not a danger, but that a large aggressive dog was something that they should kick at or hook at with their horns. They learned that the sound of a fire cracker or a car back firing, or a cannon shooting at a historical reenactment, wasn’t going to hurt them and they didn’t need to pay it any attention. They learned to distinguish between harmless noises like people yelling or laughing and their drover saying “get up” and meaning it!
I’m not sure why these particular steers were so difficult to train. Perhaps it was because the breed was the wilder Spanish cattle from Mexico whose ancestors that had not jumped every time there was a noise in the brush had been taken out of the gene pool by the wolves, coyotes and mountain lions, so only the “jumpy” ones were left.
Changed my response
I’m also not sure why I didn’t generalize from the abusive behavior I endured over and over, or change the failed attempts to get it to stop by doing repeatedly something that had not worked. Someone once said, “insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” I sure did enough of that for two lifetimes. Now I have changed the way I respond to abusive behavior. I am learning to distinguish the difference between “harmless rattles” and “real threats” from predators.
I have made some general “rules” to guide me in my differentiation of what is “harmless” and what is “threatening.” First off, it depends on how close to me the threat is. A rattle snake at 10 yards from me is no threat at all. I know he could hurt me if he was closer, but I will not let him get close enough to strike me, so I don’t have to fear him. If that same rattle snake is 3 feet from me, I take a different view of the potential for harm from the same snake, and react in a different way than I do to the one who is 30 feet away.
If a person who is not “close to me” lies to me, it probably isn’t going to be much of a danger to me, unless it is a big business deal. I don’t fear that lie from someone I don’t really have any connection with, I just notice (like with the rattle snake at a distance) that the person is dishonest, I don’t want him to get closer to me.
If a person who is “close to me” lies, that has a much bigger potential for harm to me, both emotionally and otherwise. Therefore I will move away from that dishonest person, put some distance between me and them so that if they do strike, they won’t be close enough to hit me or do any significant damage.
Threat or benign
Once I have determined that a person, animal, or object is a potential threat rather than a benign creature, I will keep a wary eye on it. I won’t make excuses for the potential damage, and once it has tried to hurt me, it won’t have another chance. I no longer trust anything or anyone without assessing the potential damage that could be done.
Cynical? No, I don’t think so, just cautious. I don’t venture into the world like there are no dangers out there, no evil people. I do know now that there are some evil creatures in the world, some potential threats to my life, sanity and health. But I no longer walk in terror, because I have realized what the evil creatures are. I am no longer terrified of the “rattling milk jugs,” but I give a wide berth to the “poison snakes.”
I’ve finally personally learned from the “1001e things I did wrong in dealing with psychopaths.”
strongawoman: You are an art teacher! How lovely is that?!!!
The dance recital last night was an absolute success!!! It was amazing to see all this young talent. Refreshing, truly.
Yes, I ‘ran away’ for the whole afternoon and evening and it was great.
Not a moment to think about anything and then today comes…”Father’s Day” in the States…
I can so relate to you: we are survivors not victims.
I am fortunate to have survived my ‘experience’ as well.
WITH MY LIFE, I do seriously mean…
Getting stronger over here – little at a time…
Lovely day to Beautiful You and Beautiful Yorkshire…
So happy for you that things are working out for your life.
You are always in my prayers, Lovey..
Dupey
Alive, hi.
I’ve been watching Dateline, 48 Hrs, Snapped, Blood Relations (or whatever it’s called-new I think) for years. Since my experience with a path, I believe almost all of the perpetrators are also paths. I think any being that “takes” another’s life (in “any” way, be it murder, overpowering mind control, love-bombing, whatever) is a path.
Strong, I hear you on letting folks make a floor mat of you. I was comtemplating that today as I so often do. And I find it just confuses me. After yrs of all kinds of therapy, 7 of which were intense group psychoanalysis 2x per week, where you drag poor mom thru the dirt, whether she deserves it or not, I def believe nurture is key but so is nature. My mom was critical and dogmatic but she was also affectionate and took good care of me. Back then, parents didn’t “love bomb” their kids. They didn’t make arches over them after a rec dept soccer game as if they’d just won the World Cup. Gag, I didn’t participate….guess I screwed up my kid!!! Hell, if you were *lucky* enuf to play a sport or take dance lessons, you were thankful!!
I suppose I could look at it like my mom dumped garbage on me for yrs, so why wouldn’t I feel like a piece of trash now? Often I do, which would explain why I allowed a crummy piece of sh*t like path to twist my psyche into a pretzel, dump more garbage on my head with lies and deception, then tell him *I* was sorry; I realized he was going thru a rough time!? G-d I so sicken myself when I think of that.
I guess I post this because I don’t know what the best way is to deal with this particular large bump on the road of life…or whatever you want to call it. I guess it’s best to just acknowledge that it happened, that it was the ultimate floor mat experience and it won’t happen again because we know the pink and the red flags. No matter if it’s a platonic friend or romantic one, no getting involved if we catch a whiff of the possibility of pathology.
Take care
Strong, this philosophy of running from these floor mat flags, again just imo, goes for any experience whatesoever that makes you feel less than, used or abused.
It’s difficult to draw that line sometimes because well, it just is. Too much to say on that so won’t even try. Suffice to say my mom’s mo was to get chummy with a neighbor, babysit, drive them around, whatever they needed or wanted, then get pissed and cut them off completely, silent treatment, etc., because she decided she was being taken advantage of.
Ergo, I am a very bad judge of whether or not I’m being a door mat. I mean, if you want to help people out and they don’t reciprocate, are you a door mat? Did my mom just choose the wrong people to be friends with? I recall that they were nice people. I don’t know. It makes it very difficult for me to exist without anxiety because of this.
Because of all the therapy, I am sensitive to this but I still don’t know where to draw the line. Since being married and having a child, I really don’t have that particular problem with friends anymore because I’ve been so busy raising a child and working. But it xferred over to my hub and child. Not fun. Guilt and anger.
OK, rambling.
One thing my mom could have done is to have spoken to these women and let them know that she felt a little taken advantage of. But I don’t know…that doesn’t even feel right to me…so confusing.
I do know that that obvious mushy line was noticed by path. I’m sure it led him to hit on me. I don’t have a clue where he was going with it tho. Not a clue.
Dear stillreeling,
Thanks for replying to me. It wasn’t rambling at all. I appreciate your point and well made it was. I’m totally with you on the parental dysfunction thing. I’m sure, no …..I know my girls would scoff and say ha! Mum you werent perfect. Far from it, my friend. In fact my parents are in their late 70s now and my dads been ill llately so just been over to visit for fathers day. You know, they weren’t perfect parents. Think my dads very bombastic ….must be where I get it from.
Anyway now I’m rambling……in reference to what he wanted, your spath that is. They want different things don’t they. It’s all about supply…….sex, money, affection, to take you away from your husband or your loved ones. My ex was vile like that. He envied my family ……he once said I want what you’ve got….meaning my kids.
No chance
Hey Dupey,
I’m so glad you had a lovely day at the recital. You escaped, lol. Glad to hear you’re getting stronger. You are in my thoughts and I look for you and worry if I haven’t seen you post.
I’m a music teacher and I teach art. So it’s music first. Thank you for the good wishes and I’m VERY lucky in so many ways that I mustnt forget to count my blessings……instead of regretting my shortcomings. And there’s been plenty them Dupey doo.
Xx
It’s wonderful that you still have your dad and mom, Strong. I’m so glad you were able to visit with Dad today.
Bless his heart. No one could make me laugh like my dad did. I knew it too…never has there been anyone yet.
If your dad is anything like you, he’s great…what’s wrong with bombastic????????? I hope he’s doing ok…it’s so tough to see your parents ill. My dad died in his sleep, thank heavens but way too early. He abused his body with alc and cigs.
You’re correct, I believe, about at least one of the things paths want besides a bj (sorry to be disgusting on Father’s Day) but there is truth to what you say in my experience. Path was very unkind re: my husband, called him “what’s his name,” called the house when he was around, etc., saying things that could get both of us into trouble. I do not understand this. Then treated me like a bag of maggots.
OK, have great day…the husband is mad that I’m online, he’s worked hard to make dinner (grill). I wanted to take him out but he wouldn’t – his choice.
Thx, Strong!!!!!
Excellent, it’s fathers day and he’s making dinner. Lol. Enjoy …..I don’t have a partner. All on my ownio so to speak. Ya know, I like it though. I’ve had a lifetime of looking after others……and I don’t mean my children. Although I did look after them, of course. Being a mum is the best thing ever, if that’s not too gushing to say. They’re my best friends now. Grown up women themselves. Am very proud. I did good yes. I also did things that weren’t so good. Left them for the spath and gave him too much but …..not everything. Luckily for me, they forgave me.
I’m a train wreck when it comes to men. Always choose the wrong uns! We have talked about this propensity haven’t we!!
S good talking to you still reeling. I like your style. No doubt your spath recognised your inner beauty and shininess …..and wanted it. Yak, they make me sick!!!!
Happy fathers day to all the fab men/dads out there. My dad included
strongawoman: thank you for worrying about me. For the first time in a great many years, I am doing alright again. I have learned that we will NEVER get over this. It will always be an ingrained part of us. What DOES change is “US”. We will adjust and adapt to the hole that has been left inside our hearts and our minds. That hole will heal over from the scar tissue and we will carry on. We will grasp the important things a little harder and the special moments will shine all the more.
That is what sets us apart from the ppath spath…
Our emotions and sincerity and respect for life and all about us.
Oh yes, the recital was wonderful! There had to of been AT LEAST 500 children, all performing in dance. Very elaborate and very well done. Most of them were State Champion Teams.
I was honored I was able to witness such a display and my very own Grand Daughter was right in the middle of it all. YAY!
Yes, Lady, I certainly DID escape. It was like when I was a teenager and it got too ‘heated’ at home, I would find me a place to wander – hehehehe Should I say that MOST OF THEM were appropriate. lol
Music and Art you teach. I am so proud to meet you. I think it’s wonderful the way you appreciate the connection between the arts and sense of self. That makes YOU an exceptional teacher, My Dear.
Yes, I hear you: I always seem to miscount my blessings and waking up the next morning after my first heart surgery was a blessing. I am not a religious person but I am sure that I heard “SOME HIGHER AUTHORITY” standing over my bed saying: “Excuse me, NOW do I have your attention?” There was something very life altering and life changing about that moment.
Yes, how wonderful you still have your parents about you!
I came from a very NON TRADITIONAL type of family environment. (To say the least) I never really knew what a ‘mother’ was nor a ‘father’. The best thing I had was my Maternal Grandfather who retired from the military and raised me until he passed when I was 16 years old. Been on my own ever since. Been through a lot of valleys but seen a lot of peaks too. We have to remember to count all the GOOD STUFF as well as pondering on all the bad.
still reeling: you actually have a man that cooks for you???
I don’t have a partner and haven’t for a while now and I quite prefer it that way, for me, personally. It’s quieter and more peaceful. I don’t mean that to sound ‘anti male’ or anything else, just for me, personally, I just don’t want any more of the ‘relationship game’. I have enough on my plate just dealing with myself these days. I hear ya, strongawoman: “TRAIN WRECK” really doesn’t quite describe it, does it? lol
Yes: HAPPY FATHERS DAY TO ALL THE WONDERFUL DADDYS THAT THERE ARE IN THE WORLD….
Dupey
Dupey, how lovely of you to say that you are proud to meet me! Thank you. You sound like you have endured a lot of sadness and tough times. You’re quite a gal Dupey. After all that and you still reach out and help others …..like me. It’s so wonderful to have your validation, it really is. My background is …was difficult in lots of ways. Seeing the good in everyone, religious dogma. I used to be angry. I drew a line under that resentment about ten years ago and thought, you know what? My parents did the best they could. Both from some pretty heavy dysfunction themselves. I forgave them and I learned to love my inner child. But still….I’m searching for the whys and the wherefores. Esp since the spath exp.
So I’m waiting my book from amazon. The one I mentioned yesterday and now I can’t remember the title, lol. Anyway, it’s so lovely to be able to babble on and write my thoughts here. And the feedback is very overwhelming at times. But oh so therapeutic …..and funny. There are such funny ppl posting. I love this site. Bless Donna.
And bless you Dupey doo. Love talking to you as always. It’s 1am here so off to bed.
SW xx
strongawoman: I am very proud to meet you. You, Dear, are one of the world changers. And I appreciate everything about you. Thank you for your sweetness to me and your kind words. I have seen a lot and been through a lot, yes. I have tried to help others in my life because I think that is the reason we are here. To try making the world a little better place than when we found it. Unfortunately, not everyone holds that same idea. Which is obvious, or we wouldn’t be here contemplating their horrid mannerisms.
I am so happy I was able to give you that validation…so happy. Because it is true. We were too kind and too caring and loved too much. That made us sitting ducks. Right? Yes, I drew a line THROUGH that resentment just about 2 months ago now. Just made it not even on the list of things to do anymore.
Oh yay: hope you get your book soon. Hope you enjoy it too. I can’t remember the title either, Lady…lol…so sorry…Trauma bonding, was it?
Yes, it is very lovely that we can come here and say what we are feeling and to write our thoughts down. Sometimes only writing them down is justification and grounding enough; to hear and see ourselves and what we really think and mean in writing. Sort of like making a self commitment of some kind.
You are a wonderful person, strongawoman, stay wonderful as you are and never change. Except don’t you let them bad boys around you any more. Hear me? I know I have certainly sworn them off like the plague.
Blessings to you too strongawoman…
Love chatting with you too.
Sleep well.
Dupey xxoo