Editor’s Note: This letter to Lovefraud was sent in by a reader whom we’ll call Aaron.
This is part personal narrative and part informed amateur psychology suggestion. I am writing this because of my own traumatic experience and the need I believe for men to know what they may be dealing with. As most discussion and research involves male psychopaths there has only been recent dialogue on the female version. The most well-known writings on psychopathy have involved male prison populations, most notably by leading expert Dr. Robert Hare, and the notoriety of serial killers (Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy and others) and have not touched on those in the general population and specifically female psychopaths.
This is not just for men either, as the woman I was involved with was vicious towards other women, often stabbing her “friends” in the back when not around, pursued their boyfriends or husbands for a thrill and worked to get her “best friend” fired. Whereas she needed the thrill of control over men — she had no use for other women and “burned every one of them,” to quote a mutual female friend whom she targeted.
A Simple Starting Point — Tools of the Trade
If we are at risk to be damaged by these disordered individuals I would like to offer a simple starting point. As a father who raised three daughters on my own I reflect back on one simple message I gave them as they started dating. I think it is a good comparative for starters. I always warned them that:
Boys play at love to get sex
Girls play at sex to get love
In the disorder of psychopathy I think this can be restated:
Men play at love to get control and whatever the thrill is for a psychopath
Women play at sex to get control and whatever the thrill is for a psychopath
In other words men say the right words, act the white knight, and whatever makes a woman feel special until he has the keys to the kingdom of her heart. Then plays it out and moves on when it doesn’t work anymore or he is bored. Women will use the power of seduction and sexuality for the same purpose — the femme fatale if you like. They also play it out to get what they need and move on when confronted or bored.
A Proposed Different Phenotype — The Borderline Female Psychopath
Yet we don’t see much in the literature about female psychopathy. In addition if 4% of the population can be diagnosed with this disorder the great majority are men. However, in a recent study it was proposed that female psychopathy may present and be diagnosed as Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) which is diagnosed in similar amounts of the population. Seventy-five percent of those diagnosed with BPD are women. This is not to say all women diagnosed with BPD are perhaps psychopathic — in fact the study linked below makes some suggestions about exceptions and many struggle with self-destructive behaviors. However there is a correlation in some subsets which is striking. I will provide a link to the study below but here are some of the notable quotes:
“”¦results suggest that BPD and psychopathy, at least as they are measured by current instruments, overlap in women and, accordingly, may reflect gender-differentiated phenotypic expressions of similar dispositional vulnerabilities.”
“In women, the symptoms associated with secondary psychopathy and BPD are likely to manifest within relational, interpersonal, and intimate contexts—given that women’s externalizing behaviors are most often directed toward intimates and acquaintances, whereas men are more likely to externalize in relation to strangers (Miller & Meloy, 2006). These gender differences are, in part, due to the socialization processes that promote women’s disproportionate sensitivity to relational contexts (Gilligan, 1993). Thus, for women, both disorders would be highly relational in nature and likely to revolve around destructive interpersonal dynamics.”
The complete link to the study is here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3323706/
So the scary part of that is that while men may target women they don’t know but may meet casually (in a bar — online), women are likely to be people we get to know and trust over time and will target us anyway.
For women entering into a relationship with a man who seems too good to be true it would be wise to try not to be drawn to the flame of his words and attention.
For men entering into a relationship with a woman who seems too good to be true it would be wise to try not to be drawn to the flame of her sexual excitement.
Remembering that the first personality trait is glib and superficial charm, these charm offensives will be the white knight or conversely the minx. Either way it will be over the top.
The Scary Cocktail — Shaken and Stirred
Starting with the symptoms which are present in psychopaths: glib and superficial charm, need for stimulation, pathological lying, cunning and manipulating, lack of remorse, callousness, poor behavioral controls, impulsiveness, irresponsibility, denial, parasitic lifestyle , sexual promiscuity, you can add a second ingredient.
As noted in another study, women with BPD are twice as likely to engage in risky sexual behavior (sex with someone they don’t know, i.e. one night stands) and promiscuity (sex with multiple partners). I say this from painful personal experience: you have someone whose method of control and manipulation is not only effective, it is their lifestyle. Win-win for that person and lose-lose for everyone else.
I know men don’t know what they are dealing with or don’t think with their head. The good news for women, I am sure they know who these women from a mile away (and what they are). From my personal experience, men can only know if they pay attention because these women can’t help but brag about the past (remember they are also grandiose).
Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2719454/
Comment from Donna Andersen
Aaron brought up the overlap between psychopathy and borderline personality disorder. Dr. Liane Leedom has told me that some women are, in fact, psychopathic, but have been diagnosed as borderline personality disorder because the clinician simply doesn’t want to diagnose a woman as being a psychopath.
Also, many women who legitimately have borderline personality disorder were sexually abused while young.
My husband was married to a sociopath. And they have 2 children together. She has used the children to manipulate him, and make him feel guilty. She believes she owns him, because they have children together. The children are now older. The older the children get, the less control she has. She knows this. And she is constantly making up different things to get more money. My husband has NO CONTACT with her. He responds to her text rarely. Because he now realizes everything she says is a lie. She has started smear campaigns about me. I have not reacted appropriately. I have never dealt with a sociopath before. She was bashing me all over the Internet, so when I reacted she was able to play victim, because I retaliated against her lies about me. After 5 years I have learned not to take the bait or respond to anything she says about me. The whole community knows she is crazy. They don’t know she is a sociopath, I don’t think people understand what a sociopath is, until they become a target of one.
SS,
Yes as ive learned the hard way when dealing with these people, when/if you retaliate they find a way to become the victim and demonize you to others, once I am done in court defending from this protection order mine slapped on me, I am done with all things that have to do with any form of retaliation concerning her as I know it will only wind up making me look bad and validating her false story that I was the evil one in the relationship.
The part about sexual abuse, mine never mentioned anything close about being sexually abused however I doubt she would have told me as she is secretive and does not like others knowing much about her unless its something good. I do know when I met her, her sex drive was higher than any woman I had ever been with, I could barely keep up with her and that’s saying a lot coming from a man. Supposedly she had higher testosterone levels then she should for a woman and the doc told her that’s why her sex drive was so out of control. Im beginning to think the only reason she kept me around is because I satisfied that raging sex drive of hers (no im not bragging) as there is no way any man will satisfy anything else in her life, shes unhappy with herself, she has twice told me in the last year that the only thing we could get right was in the bedroom, and I wont lie, that hurt bad to hear her say that. To make 2 beautiful/healthy/smart children and have a home and a business and hear something like that leaves one scratching their head. The fact that sex was always used as her way of making up with me when I was pissed instead of apology or talking about the matter speaks volumes, I believe it was a form of control, but I also believe it was her way of getting around taking any blame for the situation, just sleep with me and I wont be mad anymore without her accepting any responsibility for what she did that caused the fight.
What I think right now hurts the most is that I know now its over, see we broke up once a year every year and always got back together, with her saying we cant be apart and to never leave her I always fealt no matter what happened we would always get back together, I know now that I cannot do that anymore and it hurts because 10 years with someone I loved cant just be erased, but I know if I go back she will not change (she even told me so) and I will only hurt myself more, she has systematically destroyed me from the inside out, and I have to stay away to heal. Even though she was never a true partner, I thought she was for many years and I miss that, I miss waking up next to her, doing things with her, some of the TV shows we both liked to watch together, doing things with the kids. I feel like an empty shell of the person I used to be. My friends took me out lastnight, I did not want to go, but they pestered me for hours and I went. I had an ok time, seen many attractive women and people I knew, but when I look at other women I start thinking of only her and I don’t know why, but I wish it would stop.
Im thinking of maybe writing something about my story, at first for just myself and to get it on paper and out of my system, but maybe ill post it online or print it out someday in book form who knows. Hate to say this but I really wish people like this were locked away for life so they could not destroy anymore lives.
Dave I was married to my ex for 28 years and knew him since elementary school. My reason for mentioning this to you is that 1.. You had no idea who she really is and unfortunately neither do they. They mirror their partners so effectively that we feel loved only because WE love. 2.. I’ve read this on LF before…. the life that we create with them is like building beautiful sand castles. they look fabulous as long as they last….but when the discard tide rolls in they disappear…and we can keep looking for them but they are gone.
This brings me to you saying YOU feel like an empty shell….I know that feeling well too…UNTIL I remembered that it was all really MINE!!!!! they just mirror!!!! Take back all that is yours. Your music, your books, your TV shows and your sanity. I started going alone to movies owning the experience and loving it!!! Going for hikes to the same places and finding that I still love them and can enjoy the beauty MY way….. you get the point hopefully!!! Healing is a long and painful process. I agree that they should be locked up and keys thrown away!!! Take conscious and tender care of yourself.
Thanks Imara,
I couldn’t imagine 28 years of this, makes me feel bad for complaining about 10.
I know doing things is good for you, my problem is ive always just wanted a partner to share it with, I had my fun whoring around when I was a teen and early 20s and I realized I wanted more than that, just a decent woman to have love/respect/understanding, and to share life with. I still want that, just will have to be more careful whom I pick now. Its not to say I cant be alone, but im happier with someone, maybe that’s one of the reasons I tolerated this for so long because I didn’t want to lose that feeling that I had someone?
Oh Dave, I had built Beautiful sand castles!!!! And am very grateful that I did not do the married and miserable…I was a portal into the life and respectability he wanted in the community so to the day I was brutally discarded I thought I was the most loved wife in the world!!!!
There is a difference in being alone and being single. I’m not feeling that you’re going to choose being single!!! Just be very self aware of your vulnerabilities…..and watch for the Red Flags. If you take your time and they are there you will see them. Do not ever again excuse or tolerate bad behavior…. its like I learnt from LF “if it’s not fun I’m done!!!”
Have fun!!!
“Do not ever again excuse or tolerate bad behavior”
That is something I will never do again, all it does is enable a breeding ground for even worse behavior.
I thought my castles were beautiful too, then once a year she would destroy them, only for me to build them again and watch them blow away.
As for choosing to be single, only time will tell if I meet someone I feel emotions towards and then I will see where it goes, so yeah im open to another relationship, im just scared I may be overly paranoid and that’s not fair to the person im with.
I feel sorry for you bc I too have gone through a similar situation . Been divorced for over ten years , entered a dating website on the internet and guess what I dated a woman for only ten months that has left me going through therapy now after the aftermath of our relationship. I have basically shutdown as a person especially with trust. She has Histrionic personality disorder Dependant personality disorder, Self centered to the max. I could never do enough for you , and guess what she is constantly looking for new victims. She would never agree to discuss serious issues to my face , it had to be through text mainly so she could have a way out from the corner I would push her in. Oh did I forget about her being a sociopathic liar a manipulator full of deceit. Plus I find out later she practices wicca, witchcraft, and paganism religion, all of this was held secret from me. They overlap relationships to constantly look for victims that feel sorry for them. It left me exhausted and emotionally drained as a human being. So you are not alone.
davedal,
wow, the witchcraft and what not is freaky, kinda scary.
But yes, I feel like my soul is poisoned, like a large piece of my heart and my being have been stolen and will never be returned. I can only hope with time that I can trust enough to be in another relationship, hopefully you can too.
Ironically I met mine on a website too. I don’t know if mine truly understands the devestation she has caused me as I think she may have convinced herself she has done no wrong and its really my fault, either way doesn’t matter, the damage has been done, done to all of us. Im sure with time ill move on easier, but for now its only been 2 1/2 months, so its still raw in me. How long have you been split up dave?
Its been about 2 to 3 months that it has ended. She kept so many secrets from me. The most selfish person as a female I have ever met in my life. These women know exactly what they are doing, they mainly are actresses on stage full of deceit, lies and manipulation just to get what they want. Rapidly shifting emotions. Two days after we split our relationship she made four other usernames to try and communicate with me making me think she was someone else, but I caught on quick to her tactics and she stopped. There goal I think is to make you suffer for them bc they know what they are all about themselves, they have mastered the art of it all. I detected a fakeness early on in our relationship and luckily for me studying psychology has helped me figure her out early. She is an intelligent woman no doubt. But I told her I said well guess what So am I. I would give her emotional hugs genuine, and what I got back in return was disingenuine hugs and what I call reciprocation. She had what I call shark eyes that’s the way she would look at you. Honestly I feel sorry for her and others like her, I feel devalued as a person I have just about lost faith in humans. I have always loved animals and this just reaffirms why I do. I am getting better slowly day by day. The sad part of this for all of us is you don’t know someone until you spend time with them. A lot of these types of women I found out are looking into wicca witchcraft and paganism bc there personalities do not fit into the normal way of life. To them it is their religion. A lot of these women think they are goddesses queens or special in other words and they expect to be treated as such. With no concern for you or your health. You will get better with time, maybe just like me don’t be so nice to the next one to test her and see how she reacts.
davedal,
Yeah the secrets are very bothersome, and when you do find some of them out they get angry, or feed you a line of shit that seems quite convincing.
“rapidly shifting emotions”
with mine it was the classic “I hate you, don’t leave me”
if she seen I was mad enough to leave she would try and talk me down without looking like she was in the wrong or begging, then 1-2 months later would be trying to kick me out. she is quite intelligent at times trying to make it out like she is smarter than me (just to tear me down) I too wondered when I got hugs or kisses cause at times they didn’t seem genuine like mine, I usually didn’t get the shark stare unless we were having sex, then she would get this extremely seductive look on her, and would say romantic things when im at my weakest and open to her, only to turn around later and say she only said that in the “heat of the moment” in other words just saying we were having great sex and it just slipped out cause it was heated.
I too look at humans differently now, I know not everyone is like this, but I could not tell with her until I had moved in with her and she was pregnant, now I look at others and wonder “is that one of them”?
Socio Sugar….WOW, I read your post and I swear I wrote it! My husbands ex wife is a sociopath(diagnosed). They have 2 children together, 23 and 18(in Indiana child support ends at 19, it was 21 until July 2012)I find what Aaron says here is sooooooooo true, I only hope he remembers there are also great women out there with no evil motive or intent.
I have been with my husband for 10 years and have become a pro at protecting and defusing! I have adapted to learning to always stay 1 step ahead of her, but never letting her know it. Defusing every single, sick thing she throws our way. I know that we all want to respond in some way in the beginning because the “thing” we are dealing with is so evil and shocking and cruel.(especially if children are involved)She has overstepped her boundaries repeatedly in so many ways, but she feeds on and lives for DRAMA!
My husband has 95%, no communication with his ex today. Child support ends this December, but she has been worn done over the past 10 years and has “mellowed” out just a lil’ bit.(I am knocking on wood)The key to having a relationship with someone who was with a sociopath(especially if children are involved) is that the person (like you and myself) has to be super strong and vigilant! My husband is a great man, and would have to be “worth this”, but I have given up so much being his “hero”! I now realize that I am an adult child of an alcoholic and this is the role that I am used to playing since childhood. In order to grow I had to understand why I choose who I choose.Just like anyone deeply involved in a relationship, outsiders and loved ones can see what we can’t. My husband was and still is to some degree a “deer in the headlights” when she contacts him, this is where I have to step in, he is lost and regresses back to 10 years ago.I have seen no other person have an affect on him like she does, the fear and confusion can be seen clearly in his eyes! She has learned over time that she can’t manipulate me, I am not one of her puppets, and you have to set those boundaries from day one, there is no turning back. When she tries to pull something my husband lets me know and I step in and handle it, always without any contact with her.
I do know, that in the end, if we let the sociopath define who we are by not trusting or loving again, we have lost and they have won! Stay vigilant, stay smart, and document everything, but most of all, listen to your gut! God Bless
You are absolutely right about them feeding off of drama. If all is quiet, they cant handle quiet. They will even make up something or a story especially to go to court with. I am a victim of the same thing. Spent tons of money in court defending myself against it.
Winifred – yes being married to a man who has a sociopathic ex wife is so hard. Because all of the sudden she stops targeting him as much and she begins to focus on you. That’s what happened with my husbands ex-wife. She did a lot of smear campaigns on him, but as soon as I entered the picture and set some boundaries all of the sudden I was the target my name was being bashed it was horrible. I feel like she is still trying to destroy me even know right now we may be on okay terms that doesn’t mean that she is not bashing me and spreading lies about me to everybody. She is just pretending to be nice now. I do feel my self esteem has been affected. And I feel I am a different person after having to deal with this so long. It’s like she has taken away all the joy. My husband and I can’t even go to dinner without receiving numerous random BS text from her. It’s crazy. I feel I use to be a strong woman but I feel now I am weak. But as weak as I may feel. I will never give up.
Everything they do is for a reason. Very cold and calculated and very easy to get suckered into it. When they act friendly or normal, you finally get to take a breath and welcome it so much. However, this makes you vulnerable and this person will attack again as soon as she can.
People who have not lived with this behavior day in and day out have no idea!
I am the proud father of three young girls that a share with a sociopathic mother.
I’ve now had 8 years of up close and personal experience in dealing with this sociopath. The family law proceedings that I initiated now fills almost 20 archive boxes with my significantly enriched lawyers. That is to say nothing of the almost three years of near full time commitment I made towards researching her extraordinary past (both in Australia and overseas) and collating the evidence I needed.
I am a very well educated, emotionally strong individual with a relatively successful small business. Without all of these virtues I would almost certainly be serving time in prison for horrendous false allegations made by this sociopath during our custody battle. I would never have imagined that I could fall prey to a manipulative, compulsive, unscrupulous con woman… particularly one that I shared a bed with.
As it turns out, my fatal flaw was that I mostly trusted those that I met and took them on face value. She sensed this like a shark senses blood in the water.
Three children, five years of a tormented on/off relationship, shared business interests and three years of extremely bitter litigation has given me a unique and detailed insight into the way sociopaths operate. I would like to contribute in some small way to educating the population about the sheer devastation that sociopaths in our midst wreak on almost all who have contact with them. I hope the details of my experience helps someone identify then act to limit the utter financial and emotional devastation that comes from any sort of relationship with a sociopath. I also hope by posting my experiences, along with others on this site, there will be a greater awareness by the family court systems the world over about the tactics and dangers associated with sociopathic parents.
To this day, the mother continues to use well known dating sites to entrap her seemingly inexhaustible pipeline of new victims on an industrial scale. The money she inveigles from these men has been used to sustain her lavish lifestyle and pay for her lawyers to fight me in the courts. It is clear that further court battles are looming despite her comprehensive defeats to date. I have no doubt that her modus operandi is simply to wear me down until there is nothing left, but it is a battle I will fight to my last breath because I cannot begin to imagine the sort of life my girls would lead in her care.
It is extremely difficult to effectively communicate to people unfamiliar with sociopaths just what they are capable of. The sociopath I met is very congenial and utterly convincing. She has a remarkable ability to profile her victims and find what makes them tick and where their vulnerabilities lie. I have now personally met and befriended half a dozen of her relationship victims and the stories are nearly identical. She has a template that works for her and she ruthlessly rolls it out time and again.
Without your knowledge the sociopath systematically and covertly isolates you from your friends, family and even your own children. They can sell you a story of victimisation so convincing and with such conviction and apparent authenticity that you tend to look past the implausibility of much of what they say until you start down the long journey of enlightenment. By this time the damage has already been done.
By way of snapshot, I was told (and believed!!) that this sociopathic mother twice had ovarian cancer…. before she fell pregnant. That she had a successful business overseas with a million dollars held on trust by the Department of Immigration. That she had been married only twice previously and that the latter marriage was one of convenience to help her establish a new business opportunity in a foreign country (ironically that part was in fact true but unknown to that particular husband). That she had obtained Masters degrees in business related fields. That her second husband (that in fact turned out to be her fourth) had stolen all of her funds and that of her parents. Not one of these things was true… and it is only the tip of the iceberg.
This is my first post on this site but I intend to post much more about my experiences when time permits.
Dad,
wow, that’s way more elaborate then mine, good thing you got your kids!!
I don’t know if mine is full on sociopathic, I think she is a borderline with some narcissistic in there.
Either way, these people wreak havoc on lives of those in intimate relationships with them. The emotional/mental/verbal and sometimes physical abuse can wear a person down, you start believing the lie that maybe you are a loser and you did wrong. That is the main thing im trying to get beyond right now is that this was NOT my fault, I did my wrongs during our 10 year history but nothing to warrant what I received. This woman never had my back or supported me emotionally, only expected it from me, I was the enemy to her unless she called a truce to get her fix in the bedroom, after that it was war on again. She only complimented me while dating after that it was an ongoing smear campaign to destroy my confidence and self esteem, make me doubt and hate myself.
I now know why I was so UN-motivated for so many years, I was down on myself and knew nothing I did would make her happy, it got to the point where I would think “whats the point” id often get angry with myself when sitting around thinking “whats wrong with me, why cant I motivate myself”
she built me a pedestal and placed me there then played king of the hill with me knocking me down for years afterwards never to let me regain my status.
We had a business too, was my idea, I helped get it off the ground, but was under a no compete clause for a year with a rival company so her name got put on as owner, just for me to get kicked out, no house or business, and she has the kids, and I have no clue how I would ever wrestle custody from her.
Dave. As so many have commented on this site, the chief objective of a sociopath is to submit victims to their will and the way they go about this is so insidious because it’s very clever, done by stealth and proxy and absolutely relentless. You, as the victim, are typically in the relationship for all of the right reasons… for love, companionship, building a future. None of these things are of any interest to the sociopath. Before you have even met them their single objective is to hook you in, exploit you and keep you under their control until ultimately there is nothing more they can suck from you… other than using you as a scapegoat to inveigle their next victim by making outrageous allegations against you (unbeknownst to you).
I sensed pretty early on that something was seriously amiss, but it never crossed my mind that the issues (only some of which I was aware of) were a product of her calculating and manipulating ways. I’ve met unsavoury people in my time but never anything like the cool, calm, calculating and utterly ruthless person that became the mother of our three children. I initially believed that she was mentally scarred from her previous violent relationships (which I found out much later were all fabricated). I tried to have her attend a psychologist to deal with what I thought were issues of past trauma. This went on for several years. As much as I knew things were wrong it took me a long time and much piecing of the puzzle to finally work out what she was all about. I undertook a lot of online research before I finally came close to working it out, believing her to be a narcissist. Continuing my research I finally worked out from ‘ticking all of the boxes’ that she was in fact a class one sociopath.
It took me at least 6 months after starting my research to truly understand and earnestly believe she was the monster I knew on an academic level her to be. I was never anything other than loyal, dedicated, compassionate and very hard working. To think that anyone has the capacity to ruthless exploit me was simply inconceivable, so for a long time I looked for answers in all the wrong places.
Destroying your confidence, isolating you from your support base was something I realised she did from the moment I met her. She drove an enormous wedge between my mother and I. My MOTHER! She falsely ‘opened up’ about things I believed to be deeply personal about her as a way to have me open up about my own deeply personal beliefs and concerns and then went systematically using this personal and private information to instil mistrust between myself and those closest to me.
Sooo many things she did. I’ve read now about triangulation that so perfectly described what she did. Things like sending me photos from her phone of my then 1 year old daugther sitting in a dual pram with another child I did not recognise with only the hands of a male seen on the handles and commenting only that my daugther had a great day. Copying a picture of a very unflattering photo of me from 15 years earlier that she knew I hated and sending it as an attached text message asking me simply ‘how old are you in this picture?’, knowing perfectly well how old I was and how much I hated the picture. Of course, she would deny it was an intentional attack on my self esteem and merely an ‘innocent’ question. I found out later she was showing this same photo to at least three of her subsequent conquests and most likely continues to do it to this day.
These are just a couple of examples of the sorts of things she did on a daily basis.
So Dave, see it for what it is. She is an empty shell of a person that wears a painted grin of confidence and contentment but underneath is a raging inferno of insecurity and hatred. The best way to deflect their attacks is to look after yourself. Make a point of eating well and getting exercise, even if it’s the last thing you feel like doing. The sociopath is enraged by thoughts of you moving on with your life. You will instantly feel so much better about yourself, you will build positive momentum. You will have setbacks but just get the ball rolling. She targeted you because of your goodness, don’t let her take that from you.
Dad,
I never understood, as her messed up childhood was verified to me by her aunt and stepmother so shes not making it up. I thought being loyal and having a family with her would make her happy, but its like she re-lived her childhood with me except she got to be her mother this time.
She went to jail for being awol bout 8 months after we met, I was the only one from her friends and family that lifted a finger to help her, I had her car, cell phone, bank card, I could have robbed her blind, ran up her mins, ran the wheels off her car, (course I wouldn’t though) I payed bills for her, made calls for her, helped her keep her house and job, I thought for sure that would cement in her mind I could be trusted.
I don’t know if they are just excuses for her behavior or if she just mistrust people this bad, but even with the house she refused to put me on it stating that she knew if she did I would leave her the next day and take her for half the house, yet she stayed with me for another 8 years, who would stay with someone they think will take their house from them?
She would often do things around others or just before we got around others to anger me, that way I would look like a prick in front of them while she played the innocent roll of someone dating an asshole.
She has lied to the police twice on me, once stating I broke her ribs (was not arrested) also made a report saying I was menacing her on the phone and that I threatened to possibly kill her.
She has lied about the taxes constantly or attempted to screw me out of my fair half of what the kids generate almost every year and each time her excuse is that I wont spend any of it on the family, even though the first year we had a kid I spent mine on fixing my credit and helping her pay off an HH greg bill. She has always made almost double what I do, yet complains cause she pays more bills, well duh obviously one would pay for more when they make twice what the other one does. I did 80% of the house chores and got told once “I need a man not a maid david”
I just don’t understand how someone had it so crappy growing up, they get away from the situation and have their own family and then destroy it, I often told her she was self destructive and actually one time got her to admit it to my face she said “I don’t know sometimes maybe I think my past is why” anytime I brought it up afterwards she would give me evil looks or say she never said that. She loved to bring up anything from the past on me, but when I did it to her she would get pissed off stating “that’s all you can do is talk about the past” particularly when we would argue about lying, and she would state she only lied in the past and I would tell her no you have been doing it since too. I lied once about getting the oil changed in MY car, I did it the next day when she demanded I do it day before and she caught me, she threw that lie in my face several times to which I laughed and said “your mad about MY car yet have lied to me about other men and money, you don’t have a leg to stand on” Nothing she did was her fault, she would either downplay it like it wasn’t wrong or if I busted her and she couldn’t downplay it she would just flat state it was my fault she did it.
I worry now bout my kids cause im not there to be the punching bag anymore as to how she may treat them like her mother and step father did her and they may wind up just like her, I shutter at that thought.
Dadandthree,
My story spans 17 yrs, 3 kids, 10 million dollars and lots and lots of drugs. He got the kids using drugs when the y were young (vicodon, oxy) that he used to give them from Pez dispensers. I sill can’t see one without feeling ill. He used the drugs so he could brainwash them into believing at times that I was either the evil one or that if they told on him I would abandon them to him. He proceeded to rape, sodomize and torture them for over a decade. The kids were terrified literally for their lives and colluded with each other to create stories to explain injuries (not too hard when you live on a farm). None of them EVER faltered in their narrative. They believed their lives depended on it. It took my youngest daughter to finally break the silence when she was 18 and had moved away. That day my entire world collapsed. I had 6 months earlier finally figured out that he was a spath (by the clinical DSM-4 criteria) and had started to move him out of my life – bought him new home etc. But when this came to light I could barely hold on. 3 and half years later, my youngest son (hi step son) hasn’t spoken to me or his sister, the ex’s son (who I adopted at 5) is a spath wannabe – drugging drinking and conning women into paying his way. I looked at his FB page and it’s all about F*** women in his big pickup- and getting drunk. What a waste. Needless to say, I have no contact with him. My daughter, the whistle blower, got help (i found a therapist THAT same day) and is working and productive and to all seems pretty together. I am amazed by her resilience and her strength. There a days I wish I had never found out, days when I want to wipe out the images that come to me when I remember the horrendous details of the 3 hour videotaped police report she had the guts to record. But I remind myself – if she had the strength to live it, then I must have the strength to know it, and I get through one more day. Most days it seems far away and far from my life, then something triggers a memory (my son’s birthday was yesterday) and the wounds are new again.
Life however is not all bad. I met a great guy 3 yrs ago woth a BPD ex who gets some of what I lived through and I’ve rebuilt my life in a new state etc. But still some days are just hell.
Hi thetenthchair,
Very sorry to hear of your experiences, how traumatic. Glad that there is some positives in that you have met a great guy who can empathise with your experiences.
Looking back, I would consider myself to be one of the lucky ones. This woman has a long history of devastating lives. I know the stories of at least 12 victims that she has destroyed financially and emotionally but no doubts there are many more. She worked out pretty early on that by intermingling personal and business relationships she was free to spin her lies and exploit people in a manner that makes it very difficult to achieve a criminal prosecution. Once the police become aware that she was in a personal relationship with the victims they take the attitude that you need to sue her in civil court. Civil actions don’t bother her in the least because she has no assets, her credit (in various aliases) lie in ruin. Her only means of living the high life is through the exploitation of one new partner after another, supplemented with brazen fraud. Many of the victims don’t even bother suing her because they take the attitude that it is throwing good money after bad. That said, she has civil claims totalling over 1.5 million for the few that did take action. My loses total well over the million dollar mark, to say nothing of what I was forced to spend in custody proceedings. The reason I consider myself lucky is because I still have my business interests (whilst significantly depleted due to my absence) and custody of my three daughters who are the light of my life.
Defeating her (at least to this point in time) by exposing her activities before the courts required a superhuman effort… 7 days a week and often up to 20 hours a day researching, meeting people and piecing together the jigsaw puzzle. I was fortunate enough to have had the opportunity to collate my evidence through voice recorded conversations and former friends/victims of hers that ultimately jumped on my bandwagon when they came to the realisation that all was not right. I was handed 2 iPhones from former friends that were gifted to them by this spath. Every time a new iPhone model came out she would gift her old phones to then allies who she believed were completely under her spell. She was sloppy in that she didn’t even bother deleting her many thousands of text messages before handing the phones over and was so confident in her ability to manipulate these people that she never counted on those phones and the thousands of incriminating text messages ending up in my hands. It was one of many extremely lucky breaks that I needed to expose her for what she was. Without this hard evidence I was all at sea and my children would be in the hands of a monster, for her to manipulate, control and destroy at her pleasure.
As all three daughters (close in age) are very young, I have the opportunity to firewall them against her ongoing manipulation. The spath remains hell bent on destroying me and her only avenue for doing that is the children. I just hope that in the coming months (with renewed applications by myself) the courts are able to see this for what it is. I now have my girls seeing a competent psychologist who I hope will help me to safeguard their emotional welfare. At the same time, I am hoping like anything that the authorities will step in. She remains under serious fraud investigation but these things take years to go through the prosecution process and she has bogged down current investigations through allegations made to the CMC (in Australia the CMC responsible for investigating police misconduct).
You also touched on a very concerning issue to do with molestation. As a spath, she has one relationship after another, almost always overlapping. She uses reputable as well as sugardaddy dating websites to entrap an endless number of new victims. She road tests them and if they are willing to buy her stories quick time and demonstrate a capacity and propensity to hand over cash or credit willingly they become keepers. Generally these relationships have a time limit of no more than 4 to 6 months. The concern I have is her strategy of immediately exposing the children to these new men, of unknown history and propensity, to the point where she even takes the girls to the first date and leaves them in their care shortly thereafter. The girls are all dressed up to look pretty and cute and she posts a lot of their pictures on her facebook page. I make a point of never posting a picture of my children on social media. As botox can no longer hold back the ravages of time, it worries me sick that she intends to use the children as bait for new victims… and frankly I don’t know where it will all end up. Hence the reason I have become an avid reader about psychopathy. I want to know all there is to know in order to do whatever I can to protect my girls from this monster.
What a great article. It’s unfortunate that so many therapists are unlikely to see any fault in the wife at all in a relationship. It has cost my son’s entire college education to just get my fair say in a divorce! My custody evaluator did no ‘REAL’ custody related testing of anyone in my family and simply did one hour observations and used the MMPI which may be one test used, but is certainly not designed for custody evaluation.
I don’t understand any Psychologist’s reasoning for not administering multiple objective psychological tests when counseling couples. People are so complex and how can anyone presume to know anyone that walks in off the street?
In a way this makes me feel validated, but at the same time makes me feel sick. Whenever I read something about BPD, NPD and Psychopaths… I see my wife. I have experienced significant anxiety and depression from this relationship. The anxiety comes from trying to “work it out” despite being with someone that has no intention of making anything work! Her goal was my destruction! I used to ask her, “who are you, friend or foe?”.
Be careful folks, there be monsters out there and they don’t have fangs and big claws. They look just like regular people!
Thanks for the kind comments. I was fortunate not to have children or ever get married with this girl. I feel for those that did. I was divorced and had raised my daughters alone. I would like to make one distinction – I think, and I would look for a professional view, that the distinction between Borderline and Psychopathy is one symptom which is critical and really unfortunate about BPD. That is the possibility of self-harm (cutting) and suicide attempts. I was told by two professionals when trying to deal with this relationship (I moved – so changed psychs) that she was likely borderline and to be cautious (well really just get out). I remain confused for a year because I couldn’t reconcile the self-harm element when I read a book one gave me. After that I came to realize and also read that there was that “overlay” – and I believe that if there is a lack of self-harm and yet a presentation of a majority of other BPD symptoms, this woman may more likely be a female psychopath – especially if you begin to see here relational tendencies. Mine “bragged” of her affair with a married man (he left his wife and then she dumped him – her quote was “he was the one having an affair”), bragged of sleeping with two guys who found her out and confronted her together – then she got them both back and did it again. So that was my point – if they appear to good – bomb you with sexuality and have had intense short relationships (and likely will brag about it) I would do some further checking (or run for the hills.
Wow, everyone! Your stories are so heart wrenching! Thank you for sharing these honest truths about your journeys through the raging teeth of hell.
Now you know what’s happened to you and the sun is breaking through to reveal better living choices for you as you pick yourselves up from these devastating and so completely unnecessary experiences.
And though you’ve been slammed into the dirt and slimed with the muck of these predators, do know that your experiences are worthy in that your getting past them and telling the world about them can now help others to figure out the puzzles we’ve seen with our own eyes. These puzzling people who seem to delight in creating chaos and confusion and, as you’ve all noted, *destroying others’ lives!*
And to hear you saying–to a one–that you look out at groups and individuals and think to yourself, “Is he one? Is she one?” It’s a puzzle that is never solved and which has so many potential players working 24/7 to topple your sense of balance, that it is enough to send a sane person into sequestered chambers.
I felt like that, too!!
I still do.
I have huge trust issues and see socio-psycho potentials in so many people who choose dysfunctional behavior as a lifestyle that I have become quite reclusive just as a survival mechanism.
However, I’m not satisfied with simply survival as many of you are not. As the strong person who has the internal strength and fortitude to not only survive but to rise up and thrive and lead others into their best living moments, I and you have the opportunity and responsibility to shine the very intense focused light onto these very dark and horrible places and to make things as right as they can possibly be!! We do this for us and we do it for our children and families and the people we love!
This is a very serious rescue mission!! Thank you for finding your strength to overcome this psychological and emotional abuse you’ve been subject to. It’s a horrible feeling and realization to realize we’ve been duped by these predators, that they are potentially everywhere and that we must maintain vigilance in order to protect ourselves. But as a wiser person than I has stated, “Forewarned is forearmed”, and thus we venture into the future with this knowledge.
Now that we know, we can help others to see what’s happening. We can protect ourselves from the random salvos of disordered and anti-social behavior which sadly, in lesser forms, has become somewhat normalized in society and groups as marginally unaware people think that being sarcastic, caustic, argumentative, difficult and insulting is somehow ok.
Now we know. So now let us endeavor to steel our resolve to uphold the higher qualities of the advanced human. Let us honor and respect ourselves and model the worthy characteristics of the evolved consciousness which is the pinnacle of our human capacity. Our awareness may have been hard won, but this makes it all the more precious. This breakthrough in understanding the root causes of social disarray is extremely important and though it is unbelievably painful to go through, it is that much more valuable as a learning tool as we move forward into better futures for ourselves and those we love.
Be well, everyone. We can create better futures and live better now that we know better!
Hi All,
I was befriended by a woman, many years ago, who I now believe is a sociopath. The friendship started just like any love fraud: with lovebombing. I was her new BFF, and she focused all her attention on me. It was a whirlwind friendship, replete with letters of undying amazement that she had finally found a girlfriend who really understood her, since most women, she said, were so jealous of her that the friendships just never lasted. Or, she said, they became obsessed with her, and annoying. So she had to dump them (to have ‘heathy boundaries’ of course!).
She was a beautiful foreigner, who had married an American. I believe in order to get citizenship. She had plenty of stories of hardship from her home country, Australia. She even tried to seduce ME one evening, telling me stories of how she was molested by a ‘so-called girlfriend’ one night when she’d had too much to drink. This woman wanted nothing less than to be the absolute center of attention, and be in total control of everything at all times.
The lies went on and on.
I didn’t know a thing about personality disorders at the time, but finally (about a year in) explained to her that I could not be her friend. But for me the pain of it went on for many years, and finally exhausted itself as I moved on in my life.
Looking back I realize I got ‘slimed’ by this woman, big time. I was left with lots of confusing feelings (like we have all described here). She would stick out like a sore thumb now. I see people interacting in the grocery store for gosh sakes, and can hear the conversation and think ‘wow, that is super manipulative!’.
So, despite my multiple run-ins with these types I find myself grateful to FINALLY have enough information about what they are and how they operate to protect myself and make MUCH better CHOICES about who I get close to.
I know many people here are newly out of their entanglements, and are still feeling tremendous pain and confusion. Many wondering if they will ever trust again.
YES, you can trust again. KNOWING about personality disordered individuals, and HOW they manipulate us into doing their bidding, is hugely helpful in avoiding getting too close in the future. Still, they are everywhere. You are not being paranoid. There are lots of dysfunctional to out right psychopathic humans in the world. But, there are also lots of decent, kind, thoughtful, and low drama people waiting to connect with others’ of their kind.
Just keep reading, applying your knowledge, listening to your ‘gut’, keeping boundaries, and being NICE to yourself. It will get better.
Slim
Ahhh, Slimone, thank you for your encouraging words!! So welcome and helpful! And true!!
After I read your piece, I began to think how it is that we do learn to trust again and yet, be mindful of those who’s aim it is to trick us into our own demise.
How is it that we grow to be discerning people who train ourselves to keenly observe that which is intentionally as obscure as possible…? Or, it is for the marginally progressively disordered who tend toward full blown psychopathy, as I found out with the extreme case that targeted me.
>>>>>
The more disordered they are, the better they are at cloaking it! Yikes!! Time for some serious training in face-reading!! Look for “duper’s delight”!!
<<<<<
As so happens, I love puzzles! So, for people who are a puzzle, I might actually conjure up a reality which allows me to entertain myself by figuring out who is doing what when and hold up the behavior to a template from which to develop the flow chart to break the complex system down into its components in order to better assess them!
Yah. I admit it. It's what I now do for fun while I'm between other design decisions!! But I have to do it fast because I also need to conserve resources.
So I've developed something which has worked for me and is likely working right now. I have developed a tool which uses the psychopathic/sociopathic/personality disordered's own and only fear against them!! (I've studied martial arts, and the most effective martial art has absolutely no physical contact whatsoever!)
My tool may seem controversial. I do go out on a public limb. I may break a few branches out here.
The disordered personality's only fear is exposure. Right?
They operate below the radar–the more extreme go deep!!
So. Shining the light of glaring and obvious, unmistakable truth on them shuts them down and up at the same time!!
I have a Facebook account with a fair collection of friends… Who I've asked to cull themselves out of the group if they recognize themselves as "disordered"!! :p Right!!??
My little group includes people near and far and what I wrote on Facebook one day–I'm sure–shocked many.
But I felt it was true. And it works like a lucky charm to keep the kooks away!!
I posted that I've noticed that I became a "kook magnet"!!
Hmmm. One might think. How does this work??
As mentioned, it uses their own attacks against them, as one does in martial arts.
As they schmooze, love/goodie/sex bomb, blow smoke up your butt and fool you into submission, they go undetected. Until now.
Why is this person doing all these things? Well. Because I'm a Kook Magnet!!
Deal with it, Kooks!! (Unsurprisingly, they are totally aware of who they are and what they do!!)
Puzzle easily solved!!
Still. Dysfunction is drama. So. That's entertainment!!
… Does that seem harsh?
The kook who bothered me and who is now on probation for it has come around again, unwelcome and potentially verifying the validity of my experimental posting’s truth if unable to corroborate it’s marginal effectiveness.
I’d say the litmus test is positive. The guy is a kook. And I must be a magnet for kooks!! Sadly, as a kook, he is unashamed yet exits quickly as soon as I expose his kookiness once again… To the few or many that need/want to know.
Like a Dark Comedy, it plays out as though some cosmic scribe is penning another archetypal drama upon which we can hopefully reflect, learn and grow.
If “all the world’s a stage and we are merely players”, then it behooves each one of us to know which archetype we identify with based on actions, motives, characteristics, and intended outcomes.
Drama is about archetypes interacting. The more high drama, the less functional as a highly evolved human being.
In some recent research into leadership analysis, I’ve come across some interesting information about how productive systems work versus how systems don’t work and are unproductive-and DRAMATIC.
The research shows that high drama yields less productive teams and therefore is an unsustainable entity in economic terms.
The net loss of resources will disallow the growth and progress of this crippled way of existing and the members of the entity all suffer and possibly meet untimely demise.
Therefore, the conclusion is such that these unsustainable situations must be made functional by the proper mindset of the participants.
This is leading edge business theory these days. And. Somehow. It’s not unlike the absolute next step in our lives towards growing past these dysfunctional situations.
The positions of this theory can be gleaned and accumulated at the positiveintelligence.com website written by Shirzad Chamine.
It’s a lot of fun and you can take some quick assessment tests to peg your capacity today!!
Enjoy!!