By | February 3, 2008 331 Comments

When the sociopath is gone: Pain is temporary

Lance Armstrong said, “Pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it lasts forever.”

When I was in an abusive relationship with a sociopath, the pain was overwhelming. I quit trying to get through it and gave into it. I quit and felt like it would last forever.

“Nothing lasts forever – not even your troubles” so said psychologist, Arnold H. Glasgow.

Trouble is, when I’m in trouble I ‘always’ think in absolutes, like never and forever. When I’m in never and forever land, I tell myself tomorrow is too far away to even bother caring about what happens today. I tell myself to quit moving through the turmoil because it is a forever deal. I’m never going to get through it. I’m never going to get away from it. I’m never going to get away.

When I was with the sociopath, I couldn’t see the possibility of freedom when I was mired in my denial of what was happening in my life. I kept telling myself that because I said I loved him, I had to stay true to my love forever. I had to stay true to him, forever and could never leave. I never let myself think about the alternative, “What if I could leave? What if I didn’t love him? what if….?”

Because I told myself I could never leave him, I couldn’t see that I was the architect of my distress. Caught up in the despair of believing ‘the pain of loving him’ would last forever, I convinced myself to quit trying to do anything different, to think anything different. I told myself there was no freedom for me, just this ennui of dying more and more every day.

I work at a homeless shelter. Recently, I had a friend tell me he believes that many of the homeless in our city ‘receive with the expectation they should receive and see no merit in contributing to the very institution or the society that gives them succour’. While I understand his point of view, and on the surface acknowledge there is some ‘truth’ to what he says, I also understand what happens to an individual when they become so lost they see no hope of ever finding themselves again.

In all of us there is a dark-side to our psyches. That place where light cannot find a foothold in the quicksand of negative thinking that pulls us down. Some will never trip over their shadows, some will never fall so far from grace they lose sight of the light. For those who meet up with sociopaths or who lose their way on the road of life, however, darkness will fall as they plummet into the despair of believing they will always be lost to the light. Devoid of hope, they will not open their eyes to the possibility of letting go of never and forever being there.

My life with the sociopath was like that. I fell into the dark-side and quit trying to swim to the shores of sensibility. I gave up on me and gave into him. The pain of my existence, of being me, of having to walk around in my own body was overwhelming. I wanted to die and thus did everything I could to make it possible.

The sociopath became my escape from living. He was my own personal suicide mission.

I see it happening everyday at the shelter where I work. People on suicide missions with a destiny they fear will never come.

And yet, despite the bleakness of their outlooks their human spirit keeps struggling to survive. To rise above the cesspool of negative thinking that inexorably pulls them into the vortex of their despair.

There is no easy cure for pain. Yesterday my gallbladder flared up and for a moment I felt as if the pain would last forever. I knew it wouldn’t and so I breathed deeply. Let the tears flow and waited for it to subside. It did.

Like all pain, it disbursed, eased, backed-off and was replaced with something else. In my case, a refreshing sleep from which I awoke to a beautiful blue sky-day filled with love and laughter. A walk with the puppies and a wonderful friend. A shopping trip to one of my favourite stores to scope out storage solutions for my new home and a birthday dinner for one of my dearest friends.

It was a day that started with pain and ended with love and laughter. The pain subsided, its memory but a distant reminder I must watch more carefully what I eat. The love and laughter, they live on, forever and a day, to remind me to never give up on living my life on the light-side of my thinking.

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I have thought about this a lot lately. This month I broke off a 6 month affair that I was having with a sociopath. The hardest part for me is knowing I will never have any closure. I’m not even sure what that would be. There will always be a part of me that wants to hear more of his lies. I realize I became addicted to them. I needed to believe them, I wanted to hear them, even if my intuition was telling me something completely different. I have been trying to understand what is so broken in me that I needed someone else to fix. Why was I vulnerable to him? I find myself reading over our e-mail correspondence trying to make sense out of what took place. Part of me wants to find him on-line, part of me is disappointed that he is never there. I realize that it is a blessing that he is not trying to manipulate me to keep it going. He is so charming and funny and I truly have a sense of loss over the friendship. That’s what is so pernicious about sociopaths: they are brilliant at telling us what we need to hear and being what we need them to be–they can be the perfect man really–at least as long as we serve their purpose and until their boredom kicks in. The person I was involved with is not the parasitic type–more the “Secret Monster” variety–concerned with being perceived as the “nice guy”. He found me at a weak point in my life and swooped in and turned everything upside down. The more time I spend here and in other forums on Sociopathy, the more I realize how the entire concept is very incompatable with my core beliefs on human nature. I always had the belief that people are inherently “good” that we are all “one” and that no one is beyond redemption. That everyone has the capacity for change. The challenge for me is to know that this is not always the case, but to not allow that to change me, to harden me, to stop seeing the glass as “half full”. I am trying to not allow this experience to ruin me. I have to believe there is a silver lining in all of this. I know it will be transformative in some way. I need to be patient with myself right now.


distraught: my experience was identical to yours. Part of my great pain is the loss of the friendship, laughter, closeness, special places and things that were ours to do. He, whether fake or not, was really the perfect man. He gave of himself to me and at least appeared to care and to be trying. There were several huge stumbles with that involving other woman and lying to me – but yes I yearn for all our conversations and for probably the things he did that were what I wanted and needed him to be, that he perfected on the surface so eloquently. And there were the many many times things didnt seem right or make sense, huge red flags and bad feeling intuition.

As for the pain being temporary, I have been in and out of this for 2 years, not yet once being able to get past the temporary pain, into freedom. This time, I am so determined to make it over the hurdle and see to the other side. Pain cant last forever, right?

What is so hard for me to understand about myself, is that all the struggles and the heartaches I went through with him… why are those not enough to send me running like the wind away from him??? But rather having to force myself to keep away, let it go and not reach out to him for one more nice evening together. He lets me be the one to break up and to come back. Like Secret Monster described, his control is in manipulating me to do the leaving and returning. I would be so angry at myself if I broke down and went back. But why is this even an option in my mind?


distraught and finding myself: i totally agree with you both. it ii harder to get over them i think because they were so perfect and there is not closure. i read on here somewhere it is not like getting over a normal relationship. you dont just get over a s path. i am two years not being with him but we are friends and like you he makes me do all the calling and getting together to catch up so still manipulated in this way. but i still miss all the perfect things he did he was very much the perfect partner in some ways too. but i think its more like a death or losing someone you love forever. i lost a brother when i was a little girl he died. and i saw my parents go thru hell of losing him. but the pain is still there i think you just learn to live with it, or without them. eventually it gets easier. i also am training my self not to think about him so much i distract my self, and try not to call him when i think of him its sooo hard but i am trying. we were incredibly close. i try to remind my self of all the bad things instead of the good times. when you recover i also think the best thing when you feel ready is to try to meet a good man who is not like the s paths and it helps not think about them so much. i think lonliness makes it easier to go back and to think about them more . i really want a relationship with a good person i want to feel that a gain and have that closeness without the doubts the second guessing and the distrust i felt with s path. so i am trying to meet someone special now i feel ready. anyone else feel this?


I’m really struggling to treat myself well in all this. I think we all go through phases, much like the ones involved in grieving any loss, only this loss is strangely profound because we know we participated in it. Like all of you, I’ve spent a lot of time desconstructing what happened and trying to figure out where I purposefully disconnected my brain and allowed all this to take place.

I know that in my case, I thought I could handle him. I knew he was coming on too strong and this couldn’t possibly be the real thing, but I was having fun. He was so insistent that I was his One True Love that I began to believe he thought I was, even though I was unsure yet if my own feelings matched his because it was too soon to tell. Yet here was this seemingly sincere, sweet, hurt man, who confessed ALL his past sins to me and said I was the one who could turn his life around and make him want to be faithful to someone for the rest of his life. It was an enormous amount of responsibility, and I shouldered it, thinking I could prove to him that goodness and kindness could prevail over his cold, dark anxiety. He wanted to believe they could, and who can blame him? We both wanted to have that dream, but it was HIS dream to begin with. I started going along to prove to him that the world is a good and kind place because I believed that. He had me hooked. He wanted something proven to him, and I was absolutely determined to prove it. True love never waivers, never falters, and is never jealous according to St. Paul. I set out to prove that my love was all of the things he feared it could never be. And no matter how hard I tried, it wasn’t EVER enough. My love didn’t falter. His did. He cheated, he lied, he took, and my love didn’t falter because I was trying to show him the path of decency and goodness. What hubris!

Why did I do this to myself? Why did I have to prove that I was all of those good, kind and virtuous things? Because I’m human, and I know it. I want to be a good person, it’s how I was raised. I’ve always accepted the fact that most people like me because I’m NICE, but I know that I’m not perfect. He played on my imperfections so beatifully! I had HURT his feelings when I was kind to others. I should only be kind to HIM. If I spoke to anyone else, I was opening my heart to someone else, and that was cheating! But I needed to prove I wasn’t jealous by allowing him to have his freedoms.

I had to engineer my own escape and make him so angry that he doesn’t contact me anymore. I still feel the loss sometimes. But I exposed him for exactly who and what he is to several of our mutual friends and a million other women on as well as He was furious. How could I do such a thing? Well, I’m tired of being nice. I’m ready to take care of me. Nice isn’t as important to me as it once was. I’m the only one I need to prove anything to. I do not need his approval. I am good enough. I was happy and fine when I met him, and now I’m broken, but I’ll recover. He never will. He has no conscience, no heart, and knows nothing at all of compassion. He wanted me to live his dream, and it became our dream, and it turned into an ugly nightmare. I’m so relieved to be awake again and able to see light!

I’m a good person. I have ethics. I have a sense of responsibility. I take care of my children and myself and my pets. I hold down a solid job. I am kind to others and am never needlessly hurtful. And most importantly, I can acknowledge that I am NOT perfect, and I don’t have to be. I am adequate, though. I am enough. I’m enough on my own without any man’s approval. I am living proof that we can get through this, and I’m self righteously angry as hell from time to time. Most of all, I’m done with him. I don’t answer his calls, I don’t read his emails or text messages. I try to forgive myself for having wistful thoughts about that dream that was supposed to come true. I’d rather be awake.


Wow notquitebroken,

You should, or maybe I should, read your post over and over again. (Sorry for saying “should”) :o) I love how you are standing up for yourself. I will admit that this is something I struggle with kind of… I mean I can be outspoken and in lots of ways, I do stand up for myself… yet I have noticed that whatever people say about me, I tend to take on and feel bad about it. Like if someone said, “You are stupid” I would have to go into a big explanation why that is not true.. instead of recognizing how abusive and inappropriate it was for that person to say that. And instead of seeing their flaw in that they would go there.

M.L. I love how you stand up for yourself too and walk away from the Bully’s game. You called him on his actions the best way… by not engaging in the game and going straight to the source that will handle this for you.

I learn from reading here and see how you all navigate life. I know I need to make some changes and standing up for myself in an effective way is one thing I need to work on.


I know this is an older thread but I just now read it.
M.L. Thank you. Between this essay, your replies back to the bloggers and what Aloha said yesterday, I feel quite a bit better and now I have a more distinct goal for myself. It might be a long bumpy road but I guess I will just have to dig out my 4-wheel drive.

Ox Drover

Dear Perky,

Thanks for bringing up this thread, some how Imissed it and I thought ai had read every thread on here, and thank you M L for another profound and great post….a little late…but better that than …. (amile)

It sort of hit me too because I have been a person who wants PATIENCE NOW! And when I am in pain it is “never gonna stop”–I try to be conscious of using “Never” and “always” etc. and substitute for them with “frequently, sometimes, occasioally” etc. There really are so few absolutes I think.

Your comments about the unresponsive landlord with the failure to call you back, and your explinations of your feelings about “calling the supervisors” made me giggle, because it was a perfect description of what I would have done and THOUGHT as well, the “guilty” feeling of “I should tell him I called the heat on him” Laugh

BOUNDARIES! Setting boundaries. I try to hard to be “nice” and “reasonable” that sometimes i bend so far backwards that I stick my head between my knees from the back! What your friend said, M. L. about people “sometimes receive with the expectation they should receive and see no merit in contributing to the very institution or the society that gives them succor” made me think about a difficult boundary I had to reinforce yesterday.

A few months ago a torando hit about a mile north of my place and the girl who lives in (rents) my son’s house from us had her horses at her mother’s farm up the road a mile or so. The fences and barns were all knocked down and she asked if she could bring them here to my farm for a while to keep them. Since I have the pasture rented to another woman who raises “high dollar horses” I told the girl she could keep her 2 horses in my “hay pen” (a small pasture in which we stack baled hay until we feed it to the animals) I told her she would have to move her horses before we needed that space for hay storage.

Well, the hay is baled and it is sitting out because her horses are still there. It also turns out that she knows so little about horses that one which is 3 years old doesn’t even know how to lead and is so viscious that it bit her breast a while back and almost amputated it from her body. Turned out her horse (the wild and mean one) is now lame in both front feet. One from some injury that we can’t see, the other from hoof neglect and there is no way to treat the horse since it is wild. Anyway this girl is very attached to this horse and though it is possible to take and break the horse, she does NOT know how, does not have the money to hire it done, and is not interested in anything but “keeping possession” of her horse, but I had to go up yesterday and tell her that she MUST move her horses to other accommodations as we need to put the hay away in that space. The fence surrounding this area will have to be completely rebuilt because her horses have trashed it reaching over for bits of grass on the outside because quite frankly she hasn’t fed them enough, and when I started to as nicely as I could tell her that she must move her horses she started complaining that the horse’s one hoof must have been injured on a “stob” (tree root) in the pen.

Now, she has NOT been charged rental for this pen, nor am I insisting on repairs or even mentioned that her horses have ruined the fence, but now that she has received “succor” from me for FREE it doesn’t seem to have been good enough to suit her, and certainally not long enough to suit her. [Laugh] That quote just sort of struck me as very much an explination of her expectations.

Though I know it isn’t a “positve” thought, I sometimes feel like “no good deed goes unpunished.”


Excellent post as always 🙂 This phrase in particular stood out to me :

“Because I told myself I could never leave him, I couldn’t see that I was the architect of my distress. Caught up in the despair of believing ’the pain of loving him’ would last forever, I convinced myself to quit trying to do anything different, to think anything different. I told myself there was no freedom for me, just this ennui of dying more and more every day.”

That is exactly how it was for me – I gave up trying new things or trying to fight for some semblance of freedom and autonomy – thinking maybe things would calm down if I did that. Of course they didn’t – nothing I ever did was enough for him – not even killing my own spirit slowly over years. I really think there is some truth in thinking they want us to get so distraught that we kill ourselves or at least attempt it. I have seen several posters write about this very subject – I don’t think our despair is just an unfortunate side effect of their selfish actions … I am starting to think it is tactical on their part – that they like to see how low we can go. It’s so sick – especially the fact that they act normal in front of the rest of the world so if we try to raise any kind of alarm we come off as the ‘crazy lady’ or the person with mental health issues.

The pain of being stuck there was really unspeakable – I still can’t express it accurately no matter how hard I try. Like you, I have written lots since my enlightenment as to his true nature. The subject matter is ME though – it’s not about what he did, but rather my experience of living with a crazy, sick and toxic person.

I am so glad I took a chance on me and risked dying when leaving him. He had me convinced I couldn’t survive on my own and that leaving him would be the end of my life, my joy, my light and my vitality. I told him he was a liar and I didn’t believe him and took a chance on me. He was wrong – leaving him was the beginning of my life and although I still hurt over the betrayal, it is nothing compared to the endless pain of being with him and being deceived on a daily basis by someone who wished me constant harm.

I use what I have learned. When I recognise other women struggling in relationships that are abusive, I name what I see and validate their experience. I speak about the probable patterns they are going through and share some of my own thinking from when I was stuck in the darkness. I also encourage them to take a chance on themselves because they’re worth it and the other side is just a small jump compared to the marathons they’ve been running for the SPN. I hope in small ways I can help others by sharing my own experience and giving a little hope. Even just planting the seeds of independence in women who have lost hope lights up their eyes again and reconnects them with their wild woman who has gone underground to survive the assaults. I try to be the person I wish I had had when I was stuck there.

I also share with new friends what I have been through and why I am so careful of trusting new people. I clue them into personality disorders and the mammoth impact they have on relationships – especially when undiagnosed and unrecognised. I know the experience will fade in time and become less large in my life, but for now it is still big and I am still learning to integrate it into my history and current outlook. Telling the story in different versions helps me to normalise it, to accept it and to make it real. There have been many occasions where I have doubted my assessment of what he is ‘Maybe he was just depressed’ ‘Maybe there was something more I could have done’ You will know all these – we all do it after the relationship is over. Telling the story solidifies the reality in my memory and strengthens my resolve to stay far away from him. The memory can play tricks when away from him – make you remember only the good and sentimental times. When I pour through the couple of hundred pages I wrote about it, I realise there can never be any hope for him – he is very sick and the best I can do is stay away.

Thankyou for sharing your pain – you do for me what I do for others. Your pain has brought comfort, validation and understanding to countless people on this site. Thankyou for having the courage to share your pain and your triumph – it gives me hope as I move through the pain.



This is an excellent post; thank-you!

And a lot of the responses speak eloquently also.

select all> copy>paste> add to nomorebs folder on desktop.


Agree.. I have been going back to the ‘good’ times with the sociopath..

He was the ‘perfect’ man in many ways.. and I miss our talks and the continual interaction.. and if I needed something he was there…

In dating.. I see through men and their games by the second date and they are all so alike in their neediness and need to control.. they seem to want to own me by the second date.. referring to things that are way premature.. so I get away from them..immediately…

Then I think back to last Christmas, at this time.. I was with the S and he was here for me.. we did things together and it was fun in ways. even though I knew that it was not good for me in the long run..

I nipped it in the bud.. I was the one that pulled away and slammed the door shut..

But you know all the things that they say that I am the love of his life.. his one true soulmate.. the queen of his life…

He is the one that closes off and blames the woman… I recall him saying that in the beginning …
But what is going on with me.. in that feeling did he mean any of it with me? I am in that kind of weak place and wondering does he miss me… etc?

I helped him during his Mother’s illness and death.. and she really liked me and I her.. And he was close to his mother..

So we shared some intense experiences…

I am just confused… The holidays.. brings up memories and longing for what was..

And mine was the refined, kind, subtle kind of interaction.. the I am so good…

I just find after dating in this past year.. I see that he was one of the better ones…

Men are just pathetic these days… I am rambling..
But yes, I miss his flowers, his attention, his telling me how beautiful that I am…

But they all say this type of stuff.. I went out with a man last Friday and he said the same stuff but I wasn’t attracted to him .. I just watched.. and on the second date he became abusive.. and I ended it…

Blah! Blah….

what is the answer… theres is none..
but to take care or yourself and have your attenea on alert…

men are on the hunt and want to capture…

At least, my s had some good attributes.. but I guess, they were all contrived… and it wasn’t love but orchestrated for and to suit his needs..
then I become the ‘bad one’ when I won’t surcumb to his constant needs and even the needs of this sicko daughter..

I am a bit confused in what this interaction between men and women is after this guy.. and it seems to have made me acutely aware of the behavior in all men.. even in business… I don’t trust the motives in any of them…


hi Style,

somewhere in all of the ML posts i read early this am was the phrase, ‘he is the lie.’

i am trying this one on when i feel the nostalgia rising. so far today i have said it about 4 times and it seems to have an interesting affect: it somehow lightens the shame I feel.

In this paradigm if he is ‘the lie’, then I am genuine – and I have been feeling less than genuine in the wake of this.

The use of the definite article shifts the phrase into something really solid: THE LIE has more power for me, than ‘a lie’.

I know there is a thread about being spath free in 2010 – I’d like to see a thread that says, BE SPATH FREE FOR THE HOLIDAYS: HOW TO DEAL WITH STUPID NOSTALIGIA.

All best,
one step








….there may be more coming. x
one step


one step.. thanks that phase he is the lie.. I am genuine.. hit home…

And is the truth.. the feelings that I had were real… when we had arguments I was there to find resolve.. and he usually walked away and closed off… he is a runner.. he attacheds too fast and exits emotionally or otherwise when it all isn’t exactly like he thinks that it ‘should’ be…

His mother left him in Argentina with the housekeepers at a young age.. she eventually got him out of the country but that was the beginning of his control issues with women and working to appearing that he is so perfect ..

I was his ‘perfect’ image of what his soul mates ‘should’ be and look like and when I didn’t ‘behave’ just as he thought.. he couldn’t handle it and attacked me..turned on me … blamed me…

One step.. yes.. agree.. a thread to just get through the holidays and to stay in your sane mind and not the dream that they created .. the lie….

I recall times when I felt so sorry for him.. and that is what kept me in it longer….

so someone start a DAY BY DAY though the holidays survival thread..

I am doing things for me.. eating what I want.. working out.. shopping around, watching TV.. going to movies..

one step .. your humor is great and right on!


hey style,

I felt almost nothing but sorry for my spath – he kept DYYYING.

I wrote a list a while ago of his ‘characteristics’: young, guilless, submissive, abused, noble, sweet, never angry, etc.

He looked pretty pathetic on paper – and this was odd for me, cause the FORCE OF HIS PERSONALITY WAS THAT STUPID ‘OPTIMISM.’

Yesterday I realized it was his not having boundaries, how at risk and threatened he was, how much he needed protection, that hooked me. I rise to the occasion IMMEDIATELY.

so much learning to do, so few hours 😉

ouuu, we could do a twelve days of spath x ness! hmm, where are we in the cycle??

I am really glad you are doing good, healthful things for you! 🙂


Hi Style,
Think he was probably telling exactly the same nice things to other women at the same time. That’s what my sociopath did. The same words. Exactly. At the same time.
Think he would have turned into an abuser once you were sufficiently hooked or trapped in some way. That’s what they all do. Consciously. You escaped in time, you should be proud of that.
Think all the niceness was part of the scam. You thought he was your soulmate because he acted that way. Whatever your ideas, likes and dislikes…he would have gone along to seduce you.
His mother? Brainwashed and manipulated like everyone else. He needs her for something – maybe just for that, to look like a decent son – my sociopath looked like a loving son too but he especially needed cash from his dear old mother.
He was one of the better ones you think – He seemed to be one of the better ones because seduction is his business. Noone normal would care to lie about who they are, what they do, what they like, for the sole purpose of seducing someone – because normal people generally want to be loved for who they are; and at the very least normal people wouldn’t lie because they’d be afraid of being found out. But sociopaths don’t give a damn.
Don’t be nostalgic, be grateful that he’s no longer part of your life.
Don’t despair about men – many of them are predators, but thanks to your sociopath you are now able to see through their lies and you are not going to waste any more time with useless men, until the right one comes your way!
Be patient with yourself – it’s normal to feel lonely and to miss the idea of a loving relationship – but remember the sociopath did not give you that and would never have.
Happy new year without him!


Elieen and One step.. thanks.. Just took a shower and was thinking.. thinking.. right on Eileen.. his mother while she was live did give him credibility of a caring son.. but I was the one that cared for her in the end.. visiting.. having photos enlarged of her family to put around her bed.. etc….he thanked me profusely. In one phone call, I just said hi to her and she let into “Your good for nothing father left me alone here..he never comes to see me.” She thought that she was talking to her grandaughter…

So that was revealing…I was her constant in her last days.. and I only knew her for three months… whew!
Mine was very moral and there was no one else while that he was with me.. I know that.. but yes, I am sure that he uses the same gig on other women.. but now, his mother is gond…

Yes.. I just feel lonely for that relationship connection… at this time of year.. but would rather be alone than in a bad one.. and last year was not all that good… but I had that constant companionship..

One thing this latest little two date episode revealed. He was an attorney and we were talking about court cases and he said that the jury would hate me .. the women would be jealous and the men would want me.. you are gorgeous so men don’t think that you are intelligent.. and you are so intelligent..

Did you all ‘get’ all that…

then this man became verbally abusive … talking down to me… on the freakin second date.. obvious abuse…

I don’t see myself as he described me.. I think that I am atractive but I see myself as intelligent…

GEEZ!!!!!!! Why is it all so confusing…
I mean I workout and try to look good.. but that is just a small piece…
but if you let yourself go then what…
I hate men just now!


Hi Style,
I’m not surprised about the mother…my sociopath also claimed to care for his family – it turned out he never did; only used them as excuses eg said he tended to his sick mother…when he was really with another woman.
Got similar “compliments” as you did; insults in disguise really. They chip away our self-confidence and pave the way for the gaslighting to come.
Good riddance is really all you should think right now. Enjoy your freedom and your ability to see through predators’ games. Don’t hate men but be vigilant, trust your instincts, and if you feel the need to hire a private detective to check what your date is saying then just do that 😉


Okay.. but what I am seeing is that all men are predators on some level.. it just comes at you in different forms.. some more obvious others not… some more evil and with motives more evil.. others just needy.. and all of it unattractive, and not good for me… we all have needs including me but it is like they wear them on their sleeve and think that they are so wise and cunning.. when I sit there laughing and broken heart at yet another obvious man so needy that he can’t be nice and straight forward but must fall back on abuse, manipulation, etc. to ‘try’ and capture a woman..

This latest even asked me on the second date mind you. “Are you one of those woman that wait for marriage before having sex?”
Like I wouldn’t get what he was up to… it is all so disgusting….


I hope you answered: “YES”. The worse thing is…if I had met the jerk you describe I would nearly have been thankful to him for showing what he really is so clearly and so early! Instead of conning me into believing he was a gentleman like the sociopath did…Sure that one you met wasn’t very good at manipulation!! Like you I was so disappointed that I had a phase when I believed all the feminist extremists from the 70s were right after all. I’m more optimistic now – I think most men are predators, not all of them…


Please don’t be discouraged. There are many fine, upstanding men out there who are not predators.

Anyone who is recently out of a relationship with a sociopath should take a break from dating for awhile. These relationships make us too angry, too reactive, too suspicious.

Yes, there are predators and run-of-the-mill jerks. Yes, we need to be able to recognize them. But if we expect that every male we meet will be toxic, then that is what we will find.


Donna, I so agree, not all men are spaths and predators. My lovely darling husband of 25 years is so good to me. Id moved in with him in 1983, and i came home from my teaching job, to find,
a} he was washing the kitchen floor,
b} He hada gin and tonic cooling for me in the fridge,
c] hed made shepherds pie, his speciality,
and d] I went into my bedroom, and hed folded all my panties and they were in a neat pile on my bed.
{To explain, altho wed had sex, I wanted my own room, and I wanted to pay him rent, as I didnt want to feel like a “kept woman”. The rent was peppercorn and tiny, but D knew it was important to me to pay it, and retain some independence at that stage.
I burst in to tears when I saw the folded pants, and he said,
“Whats wrong, Darling?”
I said,”Nothing! No-one has ever folded my underwear in my LIFE except for my Mum, ages ago!”
He said “Its nothing!”
I said,
“Believe me darling its NOT nothing”. When youve been married to an alcoholic slob for 19 years, with two destructive, abusive teenagers, Nothing it certainly wasnt!
I think it takes a real man to help cook, do the ironing sometimes, peg out the washing, and still be cute, loving, sexy
and gorgeous at 76!!
How lucky am I?
he is Gods reward to me for years and years of living with spaths!
Were looking forward to a wonderful Xmas with our new “kids”, seeing my gorgeous SIL, and the 3 precious kids,
and as for my girls, I have given them to God.
Have a wonderful Xmas, everyone! And a Spath free, healthy, safe, and prosperous new Year 2010!!!
Love, and {{HUGS!!}}} Gem.XXXX


Eileen.. I saw warnings on the first date with this man …. I was checking him out further on the second and BAM! Yes.. he was obvious as a manipulator and abuser..

Donna.. I have to beg to differ..I have been away from my last S for a year so it is not too soon to be dating and I have been dating off and on for awhile… and I am telling you.. I see signs in all of them.. the least of which is controlling…

I had a horrible break up with a man that I loved dearly that a was a narcissist and this was around 8 years ago.. I was alone for about five years and sure I went out some.. but had no desire to be with a man.. then an old friend came in and we had a fun three months.. then I meet this last man … and he appeared to be one of the nicest, good guys.. so spiritual, so moral, and so in love with me.. and such a good guy to his mother and on and on…but he came upon me too fast and was telling me that he loved me too fast and calling my home “Our home” and asked me to marry him too fast.. but he was handsome, and so attentive to me that it was too much. .. so I slowed it down. I have a good support system and my friends while they liked him were suspicious.. as it was all to fast… and they knew what I had been through. As it revealed itself.. the day that he moves into my house, I discover that he was being evicted.. so I of course, question does he love me or is he needing a place to live.. but he works hard and he treats me great and we talk and talk.. it wasn’t until his daughter and I meet that I see this family is weighted down with issues.. and I felt suffacated.. but I hand in there.. again this man and I make this great appearing couple.. and as the time goes on .. he begins to show his verbal abuse and it is very subtle.. I just feel icky and can’t put my finger on it.. then I talk to my friends and it becomes clearer and clearer.. so I pull away from him and it’s over.. now we communicate some.. but that was a long while ago.. so I begin to date and to live again.. and any and every man that I get to the second date with shows signs of manipulation, control etc… EVERY MAN! I kid you not.. Ugly, hadnsome, tall, rich, middle class.. EVERYONE.. even men that I interact on a business level… I do’nt know if it’s the economy or a sign of the times.. but what I am seeing is bad news … I am a strong woman and I am told that I am good looking and but I am kind and caring but I won’t put up with BS…and it is like they try to woo me .. then they start pulling this BS and I call them on it or just fade away… I think this latest on brought something clearer to me.. I am pretty so a man just assumes that I am dumb or puts me in this category and off he goes.. I don’t know because I know that some men consider me off putting because I am so independent..
then others are attracted by this… I am telling you .. I give up.. I won’t compromise myself ever again.. and often I d something to see how they will react…
Now, this last on waited about a year before the abusive side came out and I think it was when he realized that ‘it’ wasn’t working with me.. I wasn’t buying what he was selling…


Gemini Girl.. I am happy for you..
But I had a guy who did all that for me like you have and he even turned out to be a total sicko…

He would cook for me while l layed on the sofa in front of the fireplace and I never felt so safe with him… we were together for 4 years.. but when I moved into his house.. finally with plans to marry.. but he would show signs of a temper so I was being cautious.. after we got all the furniture in place and I was resting.. his mood and behavior turned into a crazed animal and I left in five days..and moved out.. my heart was so broken that it took me 5 ears to get past this.. and I am friendly with his ex wife and she told me that he did the same with her and we stayed in touch becuase she appreaciated how well I cared for her two boys and that he behaved better to them when I was around..I knew none of this until I did.. this man was movie star handsoem and I adored him.. but he did drugs behind my back.. I NEVER SAW IT EVER! but when I was there 42/7 he couldn’t hide it from me and he cracked for some reason..

so I am happy for you..and I hope it all works wonderfully for you..

but for me .. even what looks great turns UGLY … I still have love for this man and I would bet that he still loves me.. his ex even says this.. but he would’ve destroyed me so .. I left him.. then six years later I have this latest one.. totally different men but the SAME!



I meant 24/7.. I type so fast on here.. I make so many errors..

I don’t want to believe what I see.. but I am living it..

but what is one womans disaster is another’s dreamboat..
maybe I expect too much.. but I am not going to change at this late date.. settle.. and be taken advantage of..
it’s like men don’t respect the essence of a woman while they need and desire what she has so badly..

Look at Tiger Woods…. I was at the PGA two years ago and saw he and his wife.. they appeared a lovely couple, but look at what was going on… Tiger even stayed next door to the man I was with in the pool house.. and he commented they he never goes out.. but will move to a hotel suite when his wife arrives…
It’s like it is all being revealed.. the facades of the personas…


Style1 – I think what you might be referring to with the dates is a symptom of the changed dating landscape. People don’t tend to date exclusively then commit to one another these days – well some do but they are in the minority. A larger proportion of the population is seeking no strings attached sex or friends with benefits or a ‘discreet’ liaison. It’s incredible to me that the landscape has changed so much in such a short time. I too have been out on a few dates …. they were good men but didn’t really know what they were looking for and the sexual suggestions came up in the first date or second.

I don’t know the answer – certainly not the whole population is Spath! But there are a lot of people around who just want to get their kicks without strings attached. You are right in staying away from them – after we have been devastated by one of these relationships, the heart is very vulnerable and needs to be treated gently. I wonder if it is better to find a Christian dating group – not a website because everyone can lie on those and appear to be something they are not.

Don’t give up hope! There are good men out there. I have backed off from dating and am now forming platonic friendships with men – it is helping to change my assumptions about them. When I approach them as friends it is quite a different ballgame. I helped a friend move house yesterday – the intimacy involved in that activity was more than can be found in dating. I went through all his special things to pack them and met his dad and mum (they were helping too!). For me although it is a banal activity, I felt honored that he counted me enough of a friend to let me see him in a mess – not the perfect guy, but a guy struggling with a stressy situation. There was warmth there and support and great appreciation from him. I am filling myself up with these friendship activities so it shows me not all men are like my ex. Not all men are exploiters. Not all men are selfish. When I compared this friend’s behaviour and attitude with the likely way my ex would have been through moving, there was just no comparison. My ex would have been disorganised, rude, selfish and would have blamed me for everything. My friend on the other hand gave me easy tasks to do (on account of my bad back), thanked me profusely as I did them and then took me out for coffee with him and his dad to say thankyou for cleaning out his kitchen cupboards and packing the glasses.

I don’t know what it is about friendship, but it feels better right now than dating. Dating is all about expectations and false personas. Being friends and not sexually involved means both parties can be authentically themselves with no pressure. I could fart around him if I needed to and he wouldn’t think any the less of me! It’s filling up and blotting out all the memories I had of the ex when I think about men. It’s giving me some good memories with men and making me a bit more confident that I can relate positively to men and we can have fun together without there being sex or expectations there. I wonder if you might find it the same?

On the subject of Spath behaviours – what we look for we will find. We all know research can be manipulated to bring out conclusions the researcher WANTS to find there. And so it is the same in life – what we look for we will find. I am looking for men friends who are upstanding, warm, generous, funny and real … and I am finding it. When I look for deceit, signs of untrustworthinesss, possession … I can find those things when I date if I look hard enough. COmments can be interpreted in many ways to give me evidence to back up my case. So consider what you are looking for that you find and think about attracting some new male friends that you can get to know in depth – you never know – you might find your Prince that way! At least you would know the REAL him through friendship rather than not knowing much about someone you’re dating. Just a suggestion 🙂

I LOVE the Christmas titles!! What a hoot! Here;s one I’d like to see:

On the first day of Christmas my psychopath gave to me …
a yucky case of fungal nail infection

On the 2nd day of Christmas my psychopath gave to me…
two debtors letters and
a yucky case of fungal nail infection

On the 3rd day of CHristmas my psychopath gave to me …
three dirty looks
two debtors letters and
a yucky case of fungal nail infection

On the 4th day of Christmas my psychopath gave to me …
four hours of rage
three dirty looks
two debtors letters and
a yucky case of fungal nail infection

On the 5th day of CHristmas my psychopath gave to me …
five family dramas!
four hours of rage
three dirty looks
two debtors letters and
a yucky case of fungal nail infection

Your turn! Happy holidays everyone – even if alone, we are better off than the SPN who has no soul with which to appreciate this period of the year.


Pollyannanomore, that was hilarious! Thanks for the laugh!

I’m going into the holiday with a sociopath on my mind. Not the one that brought me to the site, but one I had a brief crush on for a few days last week from my reptile site. We talked twice, and I felt my heart open like it never has. I longed for him and missed him. When it appeared he was playing a few of us women, he started messaging me to tell me I’m the one he really wants and that nothing happened with the other woman and that she is lying. I must say it was pretty convincing. Her story was quite different. I wanted so much to believe him. But even if he was telling the truth, he still showed too many red flags. Thing is, after being a member here for so long, I KNEW he way lying, convincing as he tried to be. He even tried to send me documentation, and he admitted on the public forum that I was the one he had feelings for. Sadly, it was all too late because I had him figured out early on, thanks to Lovefraud.

The only thing is, I can’t make this longing go away. I hate it. Even though I know what he is, I’m still thinking about him. I totally get why it’s so hard to walk away from them. What IS this spell they cast on us? He kept telling me I was the one he was interested in, and I wanted so badly to believe him.

Looking forward to a very lonely Xmas this year.


Seriously, how can you get “hooked in” to someone in a matter of two phone calls over a 5-day period? I feel like this sick freak cast some sort of spell on me.


Hooked on someone after a couple of phone calls.. yeah right!Take a hot bath and have a good night’s sleep.. and get over it…


You know on the surface sometimes it does seem like a spell that they cast on people.
However I have a different theory. As much as these disordered individuals lack emotions they DO seem to have the uncanny ability to read us. How they can “play” our emotions SO WELL without having experienced this very emotion first hand themselves……It is just one of those things there is not a logical explanation for.

But even dealing with my son. He is young & not fully mature.
In some ways he is very nieve even for his age. He has very little life experience behind him, especially in dealing with different kinds of people. His world is very small because of his age.

YET he has that mind blowing ability to “work” people and read them just right. Its almost as if he plants a seed, (a lie) then waters it a little (a little manipulation) and pretty soon he has a garden….AND he is “working” on ADULTS…..
And each time he is sucessful it is as if he gets more power. However I also see that these “sucesses” (as he percieves it) as making him even more delusional of his own power…..And he convinces himself this power he percieves himself to have, that indeed the rules do not apply to him.

I also believe that he has this mind set, HIS perception of reality, and that conviction in him is SO strong, that his perception, regardless if it is off kilter, seems believable (somehow) because of his strong conviction behind it. Without much effort (or so it seems) he can be very persuasive to people.

As hard as it is to understand there is something that is intoxicating that they seem to put out there…..UNTIL you recognize that it all isn’t real. It is a performance if you will.

I wish I could explain it better…..But seeing it in a young person GROWING is absolutely unbelievable.


Stargazer you can get hooked in one conversation – it’s almost like they plant some kind of device in the brain that causes us to think obsessively about them. I am no expert in this matter (maybe someone who knows more can chime in here?) but I am wondering if we are much more sensitive to these encounters after we’ve been through the full scale relationship with a socio. It wouldn’t take much for the brainwashing to take effect again and it would feel so very familiar and comfortable.

I am glad you got a chuckle from the carol and that you’re questioning yourself – the memory of this scumbag will go quickly as you only had two conversations – don’t pursue it – I have red flags about it from halfway around the world just reading what you wrote about all the dramas. Remember if you have confusion or angst or someone is trying desperately to convince you of something (in this case that others are lying) there is something amiss and you should probably walk away. Witsend – the analogy of a spell is very apt – when I walked away from The Liar, I said to him ‘The spell is broken and I can leave now.’

There is something almost mystical in their ability to weave a web of deceit around us that we then become trapped in and can’t escape from. It is a pity you are seeing this manipulation and intoxication in your son – do you ever call him on his manipulation of people? Probably he would just deny it depending on his age.

Ladies we all need to be very careful with future men – our hearts have been tenderised by socios and we are vulnerable in their aftermath. Please look after your hearts and put yourself as number one – you’re so worth it.


They hook into us by compliments and seeming to understand us like no one has.. they give us attention and make us feel that we are being heard…

I could do this were I twisted…

Haven’t you ever been to dinner with a man.. have a glass of wine, feel all that energy of attraction and talk and wind the man around your finger.. look him in the eyes and make him feel like he is the master of the universe.. I have.. with a man that I loved.. then we went home and had the time of our lives..

This is what the con does all the time.. it’s a mind set.. and of course, all aren’t sociopaths.. but many almost all display manipulation and controll issues and predator traits whether it’s to get a woman into bed or whatever it is that they want.. they want your energy… they lack an inner compass, a moral adjuster of truth and honor….
they want to sweep you away into their agenda whatever it may be for one night or to live in your house or to take your money or your life.. I have learned to look at them through their words into their agenda..I have learned to ask what is it that they want from me.. then I look inside myself and ask what is it that I am looking for..
Is it just to get out of myself, for some interaction, or do I really have an interest in getting to know this person.. what is the attraction…
I look back on my last relationship with a conlike man and am comforted that I didn’t let him get in too deep into my psyche… and he had so much about him that would’ve wowed most women…being handsome, mannerly and intelligent…
dating again I am reminded how crude and obvious most men are on many levels…
I have been through many experiences and this last one was the strangest in that he appeared… to be real.. kind of.. and he had a refinement that I want..
To be hooked in a conversation to anyone to me states a large lack in yourself… like you are so needy that you let anyone in… that shows you some attention..
GeeZ! Play with them the way that they play with you.. Try turning the tables… focus on them, what are they looking for.. then provide it… say what they need to hear.. see what it is like to feel the power that they take from another…
I have done it.. and it makes me uncomfortable.. in that, I don’t like to be false on any level.. but if you do it.. it will give you a new outlook..
A couple of weeks ago .. I did this with a man … and I had him wrapped around my finger.. with no intention or caring on my part.. he had fun.. but I pulled away immediately…

play with who you are in relation to others.. don’t be so invested in their liking you.. but know that they want you.. so that is no issue..
It is insecurity and an empty hole that attracts the abusive and controlling situations to you..
Nip it in the bud…


I am doing a lot of thinking.. it is the energy exchange in any relationship that makes it viable…
And the con, sociopath.. is only thinking about that they can gain not the other person.. even as they may give a good show in the beginning trying to win your trust.. if someone is trying so hard to win your trust, get into your life, your bed your sphere of influence.. why is that? Being givers, we may just offer what we have up… instead of stopping to ask of think what’s in this for me? We may think that we are not worthy of getting that which we want and or need.. but we are.. I think this may be key…

I have decided I don’t want to be around a man that needs me.. I want to be around a man that likes me.. wants to take the time to get to know me who I am as a person and doesn’t tell me that he loves me until he does know me. This I love you in the first month is so superfical that it stinks. All anyone feels in the first month is attraction and affection… love takes time and deepens.. with time, experinces and enduring life together..
Love isn’t candlelight and roses.. it is really knowing a person good and bad…

Ox Drover

Dear Star,

I think it is our normal need to be “connected” to a man or in teh case of men, to a woman. I think this is a primevil need in humanity. I.e. We are programmed to be “needy” for a relationship.

BUT, this said, we must, as we all have learned be CAREFUL in filling this need. After my husband died, I was NEEDY AS HELL, I was AFRAID of being alone without a partner. The FIRST P that came along, sensed this need, flattered me, and BINGO I am HOOKED, visualizing a life with him of sex, loving, fun, and bonding.

Once he had me hooked (a short time) BINGO he started branching back out to his harem of long time girl friends scattered over several towns. If I had married him to give him a “respectable married man cover” like he had before his last wife of 32 years had found him out and kicked him out, I would have really had problems! Thank GOD that I caught on in time, but not in time to save myself months of pain, longing, and second guessing myself.

However, since then I have finally gotten to the point in my life that I am NO longer AS needy for a relationship with a man, and I am NOT going to fall for some guy without caution and PROOF that he is an HONORABLE MAN—first sign of dishonest and OUT THE DOOR BOZO!

I am very tolerant of MISTAKES but have ZERO ZILCH NADA NO tolerance for DELIBERATE uglies or dishonesty! A mistake is bouncing a check because you added 2+2=5, but bounding a check when you KNOW there is no money in there, or using a closed account, that was DELIBERATELY DONE and dishonest. BIG difference in my book. NO second chances for “deliberates”—and only ONE second chance for mistakes, because you should LEARN FROM MISTAKES, but Psychopaths don’t seem to do that, so RED FLAG in a person who makes the same mistake over and over.

I DESERVE to be around and interact only with honest and good people, people who are kind and considerate. I do not deserve to be treated poorly, and ALONE is a lot better than as BAD relationship. Been there and done THAT! So, like a while back when I got so excited cause what was apparently a NICE widower (brotehr of a local guy I know) asked me out for a date, I was really excited, but later, he asked me to do something dishonest and illegal, which would have put ME at risk so HE could go for a thrill ride in my UNlicensed and UNinsured airplane—I told him NO—and guess what, haven’t heard from him again, but wouldn’t go to a dog fight with him if HE was one of the contenders! He demonstrated POOR judgment (at best) and at worst, showed he was a dishonest person without any concern for someone else’s risk. Either way, would I want such a person in my life? NOPE!

So my CAUTION when I first met him and went out served me well, and it will in the future as well I think. I am FINE without a male love relationship, I am WHOLE without one, happy witout one, and IF I were to find a good relationship it would be to SHARE that happiness, and I realize that nothing and no one outside of me can make me happy. Only myself.

Work on being your own best friend, Star, work on being HAPPY, not seeking anything else to “make” you happy. It works, believe me. Love oxy


Agree totally… Oxy..

I recall back as this is the time of year that I met mine…
and I spent Xmas with he and his mother.. and it was warm and cozy..

And he began with the dream visons.. of we might move to Jamica when this deal of his closes.. that he wants to have a portrait painted of me.. that he wants to buy me ball gowns for the opening on and on.. and this was between all the normal living of my moving into a new house.. he could read that I was used to the kind lifestyle that he spoke of but didn’ have.. but would have according to him..

I had my mind on moving and decorating then his mother got ill and there was so much going on.. but if I met him today.. when I am settled.. I would be able to see clearly that he was hopeful talking.. I saw it then but he still hooked me with all his helpfulness etc….

I am content with me and my life.. sure I would like a man in it.. but only one that brings me good things and the truth.. dreams and goals are fine but what is real is what is…

While he was talking all this he was about to be evicted… had a sick mother and me and my life became his rescue team… little for me and all the good for him… I lifted him into a better life.. he helped me hang art.. my father took him to fine dinners.. his daughter told me that her mother molesterd her…

He got the good life through me… I got stress and trauma through him…



In the hall of mirrors
I have seen before
time twisted, ground shifting
but the face I could always trust
body language that always told the truth
but your expressions so perfected
emotions locked inside or merely
reflected as best you could
what you did not count on
what you could not see
was the only thing not distorted
was me; I can be manipulated
but never controlled
walk through your doorways
drawn down your halls
but always, always
come out the other side

Ox Drover

Dear Chrissy,

Thank you! “but always, always come out the other side.” TOWANDA!!!


Beautiful poem, my favorite part is :

what you did not count on
what you could not see
was the only thing not distorted
was me;

He wanted me to kill myself. But he couldn’t quite get the hook because even after 25 years he never knew me.


Good Afternoon ALL,
Another powerful thread just when I needed it the most!!!!!!!
Went to a charity ball last evening—-have you already quessed? YOU WOULD BE RIGHT. In walks MR. CATFISH. I go gray stone to the max—thanks Oxy. This is after 10 weeks NC. Surprizingly I felt nothing but total contempt for him. But it gets real interesting. (BTW he was there alone/ I had a date) on with the story. CF(catfish) was sitting at another table, gets up comes to our table ask my date if he could sit there. Date says yes. (holy s).
He engages date in conversation and trys to pull me in—I get up and go talk to other friends.
It was totally bizzar. I absolutely refuse to look or speak to him. My date is clueless.
CF would only dance when I would dance either with date or other men . It was obvious that he was trying to make me angry. DID’NT work. He was totally fustrated. He even had thte nerve to ask my date if he could dance with me. What an a**. I looked him straight in the eyeball and said I don’t know you and I don’t dance with strange men. Talk about a picture being worth a thousand words. Total gray rock all night. It is priceless. Do I miss him That’s a big HELL NO. May he live in Spath hell forever. TOWANDA DOUBLE TOWANDA.
Thanks for reposting this tread. Happy Holidays All and drink a round for me. Love you guys. Seeing Clearly
Stay Strong, Stay Safe and Stay Sane

Ox Drover

Dear SeeingClearly,

WOW!!!!! WOWWWWWW!!!! TOWANDA girlfriend!!! “I don’t know you and I don’t dance with strange men!” WAY TO GO GF!!!! WAAAAAY YO GO!!!

I can’t believe that he had the gall, ah, yea, I CAN believe he had the gall but I “can’t believe it!” LOL ROTFLMAO

Did you clue your date in after the fact? Or did the refusal to dance with the arsehole clue him in.

I would have given half my fortune to have seen his face when you refused to dance with him. They think because we are in a “social” situation where we would not want to “cause a scene” that we will buckle and let them walk on us.

My egg donor’s brother, Uncle Monster pulled one of those once when he thought I would not stand up to him because there was a large audience of my friends, and BOY was he wrong! We were all baling hay for him (as a favor actually) and when he got to verbally bad mouthing and showing off, I said to the crew, “come on boys, let’s go” and we walked off right then leaving UNCLE MONSTER’S HAY CROP in the field unbaled—-cost him a pretty penny, and it embarrassed me a bit, but I apologized to my friends and said “thanks guys, sorry for the problem.” Uncle Monster sure had EGG ON HIS FACE after it all. LOL He was the one that took the hit not me.

So they catch us where they think we won’t stand up to them because we don’t want to draw negative attention to ourselves socially. I have come to the conclusion that I could give a rat’s behind what the situation is, I am NOT going to let it be used against me and if I have to “make a scene” in order to enforce my boundary I will do what has to be done!

Good for you!!!! You did great!!!! I can’t think of a thing in the world you could have done BETTER! I THINK IT WAS PERFECT!!!! Can’t get better than that!!!! hee heee hee


Dear Oxy,
Give them an inch…..
Date is an old acquiantance. I explained after the fact. He said he would have given him a piece of his mind if he had known. I told him that’s exactly what he would have loved to have seen happen, and that my friend is why I made sure it didn’t. I love it when people underestimate me. She’s so pretty she doesn’t have a brain in her head. Give me a break!
He’s not worth talking about just thought you guys would enjoy the side show. What a stupid a** he is. Can’t you just picture it all. LOL
Trust me Oxy I have no trouble putting him or anyone in there “rightfulness” place and I’ll do it with total charm and good grace. LOL After all I was born and raised in the South.
Love ya Oxy girl—-you keep it real and straight to the heart of the matter—I relate.
Stay Stong, Stay Safe and Stay Sane… Seeing Clearly

Ox Drover

Dear SeeingClearly,

The thing it took me so long to realize is that Southern “good manners” are so badly used so many times to MASK BAD BEHAVIOR….and I learned to COVER up my pain and embarrassment with a Southern Smile. Pull my apron over my bleeding heart and pretend that “everything is lovely!” even when I was BLEEDING TO DEATH.

“What would the neighbors think?” and “let’s pretend we are a nice normal family” were so ingrained into my thinking I didn’t know there was any other way to think. COVER UP the dirty laundry in the family, hide it, it didn’t matter what it was as long as the neighbors didn’t know about it, then it was okay.

Don’t express your pain in any way, your feelings don’t count as long as you keep the secrets. It never felt right to me, but I was confused about why it didnt’ FEEL RIGHT. Now I am learning and really could give a rat’s behind what the neighbors think…I already know most of their secrets anyway, they’ve lived next door for 6 generations and I know their grandpa used to go drinking and whoring with my great grandpa…LOL I know who stuffed the ballot boxes and who killed John Clayton in 1889 (a political murder here in my county that made national headlines) I also know whose daddy and granddaddy were stealing from the county and who were riding at night with sheets over their heads. I know who was in the lynch party —but as long as we ALL PRETEND IT NEVER HAPPENE, EVERYTHING IS LOVELY. Go to the charity ball all dressed up and dance with the crooked politician and keep on smiling. NOT any more. I’m done with playing PRETEND. I’m a grown up now. Only kids and crooks play “let’s pretend we’re a nice normal family.”


I hear you loud and clear—-been there and have been washed in fire. I learned to use my southerness to disarm those that would do me harm. But let someone abuse me not since I was 28 and that was 30 years ago. I am nice but not a doormat. I refuse to be a victim for someones amusement.
I hear you on the politician thing too. No NADA not going to happen. Been there too and I will call them out—might not get a straight answer but at least they know. YOU CAN’T FOOL ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME.
My friends know where I stand and my enemies can all go to _____. (fill it in) I am totally not a game player. I take my lumps straight up. And that my friend is why you have my deepest respected. You tell it like you SEE IT!!!


I don’t think the pain is gone. I just learned to cope and create a new life without the sociopath. I adapted to this new life but the effects and damage brought by this person remains. He is long gone and yet not a day goes by I do not see and feel the impact he had on my life. After 2 years I am still single and alone – unable to trust myself and others…unable to give myself to anyone. And I resent him for that with all my heart. He took away my ability to hope and believe that not all men are like him – heartless, cruel, manipulative, cunning, deceitful. He killed my ability to trust in the goodness of people and I will forever hate him for that. Hate does not even begin to describe how I feel about this man and the anger I feel at what he took away from me. So no the pain is not gone…I just learned to live with it.

Ox Drover

Dear Deceived,

Don’t give up the HOPE that you can reclaim yourself…you were naive, but not stupid….and you got burned by a bad man, but that doesn’t mean that all men are bad or that you care not wise enough to protect yourself from those who ARE BAD in the future.

You lost your trust in YOURSELF, but you can regain it! Sure, hate him for what he did to you, but learn to love and TRUST YOURSELF. Just cause you got fooled once doesn’t mean that it must happen again. YOU ARE A WISER WOMAN NOW THAN BEFORE, stronger, and more determined to keep yourself safe!

You can overcome that pain, that fear of having it done to you again…two years isn’t a long time in the healing process, so don’t rush it, but don’t give up either. ((((Hugs)))) Read here and learn, take that knowledge and let it grow, make you stronger, and heal. My prayers for your peace and healing!


And you did it with class, grace, balls,style,and guts!!
Couldnt have been better ! WOWEE again!!
HI 5 to you!!
Mama GemXX!

Ox Drover

Dear Seeing,

Thanks, the validation I get here helps me to stay strong and to grow. Validation from gutsy and strong women and men who have been through the fires of hell and survived….maybe singed a bit, but still whole!

Even the best of virtues can be turned around so it becomes a problem, and patience can be one of those virtues that becomes a big FLAW. As southerners we are taught to “be patient” with others, to be caring, and “bless their hearts….” when someone does something nasty…but I am no longer patient with EVIL. I no longer TOLERATE anything that is mean. I am impatient and intolerant and prejudiced against folks who hurt others.

Makes me a b1atch down here! LOL


I have a plaque in my bathroom which read:
I AM NOT A BIT__! I AM THE BIT__. enough said? LOL
There was a movie with Kathy Bates (not green tomatoes) where the woman that she worked for said something to the effect of : sometimes being a bit__ is all we have to hang on to. I like that!! Ya’ll be sweet now ya hear LOL


Mama Gem:
Right back at ya. It’s great to be in the company of all you wonderful women and you to gents.

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