By | August 5, 2007 386 Comments

7 points to remember about dating and predators

As human beings, we all want love and companionship in our lives. It’s a basic human need, right up there with the needs for food, water and shelter. When we are lacking an intimate relationship, most of us try to fill the empty space. That leads to dating.

Here is what you need to know about dating and predators.

1. Evil exists.
What the evil is called—psychopath, sociopath, antisocial personality disorder, narcissist—really doesn’t matter. There are evil people out there, and they can be found in all segments of society—rich, poor, male, female, all races, all religions, all communities. They look like everyone else, but they are predators.

2. If you are dating, you are a target.
As an unattached person, you’re probably feeling a bit lonely—that’s why you’re looking for dates. This is natural and understandable. What you need to realize is that predators specialize in targeting lonely people. They know exactly how to find this vulnerability and exploit it by seeming to take the loneliness away. They shower you with attention, flatter you and promise you a lifetime of happiness—exactly what you’re looking for.

3. Meeting people on the Internet is extremely dangerous.
Yes, there are normal people on dating sites. But there are also predators, and communicating via the computer you do not have the tools you need to spot them. Most of the true meaning of conversation comes from nonverbal cues—voice, facial expression and body language. None of that is available in an e-mail. So what do you do? You fill in the missing pieces with your imagination, and the person becomes what you want him or her to be. You fall in love with a fantasy. For more information, see Internet Threat and Online Seduction on

4. Predators are often charming.
If you meet someone who is glib, charismatic and has a quick answer to every question, be aware that these traits may indicate excellent social skills—or a psychopath. Pay close attention to what is actually being said. Are there gaps or inconsistencies? Is the person evasive? Does the person change plans or break promises—and always has an excuse? If you’re nodding your head, proceed with caution. For more information, see Key Symptoms on

5. Watch for the pity play.
According to Martha Stout, author of The Sociopath Next Door, the best clue that you are dealing with a sociopath is an appeal to your sympathy. If you’re dealing with someone who tries to make you feel sorry for him or her, blaming other people or “the system” for his or her problems, consider it a warning that the person may be a sociopath. For more information, see The Pity Play on

6. Predators are often great in bed.
Many people who were involved with sociopaths have told Lovefraud that the sex was amazing. Sociopaths are often skilled lovers for two reasons: First, with an excessive need for stimulation, they are hard-wired for sex. Second, they get a lot of practice, often with anyone who comes along. In reality, sociopaths want only two things: sex and power. They do not feel love.

7. Do not ignore red flags.
Maybe something seems wrong but you can’t put your finger on it. Perhaps there’s a nagging feeling in your gut. Pay attention. Do not let him or her explain away your doubts. Do not tell yourself he or she has gotten a raw deal and your love is the solution. To avoid becoming the victim of a predator, your instincts are your best defense.

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These are spot on, Donna!

Number eight is that the person seems to lack personal connections. All of their family is dead, geographically distant, estranged for some reason, or otherwise explained away. There may be lots of mentions of various friends in conversation, but you rarely if ever get to meet them. And there are NO friends of long standing (say, greater than 2 years).

Excellent post Donna and absolutely right!! We have an article about the same points, basically:

We never ever recommend Online Dating. It’s too risky. Period.

amr – we have seen Predators with big families – and the families LIE for them. Truly sick.


amr, it is interesting you mention that about “friends” of pyschos. Mine “claimed” to “have more than any one person has a right to”..but in the 7 mos. I knew him I never saw any of them. During the holiday season he never got invited to a party, or had any stories about past times with any of them. For his birthday he spent it alone, (we weren’t together then). I eventually came to the conclusion he was embellishing that part of his life. Which he was.

Also out of 5 other siblings of his, he had zero relationships with any of them, always their fault of some sort.


My “psycho” soon to be ex, family (mother and sister) live in London. I have met both, and his sister won’t have anything to do him. His mom comes to the states usually every summer to visit. Of course, I think she is clueless because of all his deception, of his situation, despite his 5 wives. She has mentioned though how she thought is was ödd that he has outlived 2 of his wives. I have no idea what lies he has told her about me since the split up. I want to write her SO BAD and tell her the truth! But I don’t know if she would believe me.

As far as friends, I never met any in 5 years AND he very slowly isolated me from any friends I had and my family. In fact, I NEVER could talk on the phone with my daughters or my sister without him staying on the other line.

Something I haven’t seen mentioned, although I am far from having read all the info on this site about sociopaths. I noticed almost from the very beginning of our relationship that he had to be with me every waking moment and involved in every aspect of my life including my job. He said Ï love you so much I just want to spend 24 hours a day with you”.

Is this a common trait?


Same story. Mine had at least 3 siblings, a mother, a stepfather, a father, various aunts, uncles, cousins, and he had zero relationships with all of them. Again it was always some fault of the other person in each case. Now I can see of course that it was probably the reverse.


I’m coming up on one year of no contact. The Psycho affair has become a “benchmark” that I refer back to most every day. I am over the addiction to the person, but the relationship is now a reference point.

Also, I must admit to the fascination with how strange and common this phenomenon is and that I had a textbook encounter.

After time away, I am now going through another wave of posting comments here.

My Psycho met all of those points. Especially the “no close friends or family.” He would receive phone calls and even let me hear a voicemail of someone he claimed was his mom. But there were no close friends except one who he “didn’t trust” (and who spoke in weird jokes like my psycho) and who I never met but heard once on the phone. There were no friends that were long-lasting at all.

I must admit, a year later, and I am still angry and extremely let down.


loserchooser, I never saw my pyscho wanting to be involved 24/7 in my life, in fact their were times I felt I wasn’t sure where he was, probably cheating on me, I think now.

But my pyscho’s mom I think also doesn’t have a clue about her son because she financially keeps him afloat. They live in different areas so it works for him.


In regards to #3, I’d like to say that while I agree, meeting on the internet is dangerous, especially the dating sites, and some of the people who troll on them & the games they play.
But it IS possible to spot some red flags on-line. I have. I met a guy on-line through my web site & his, forums, and let me tell you, all the flags were there in blazing red. I don’t know what his problem was but it was clear he had many.
I also had an acquaintance from the past contact me by e-mail. And I got a weird feeling about it, though I couldn’t remember specifically why I hadn’t liked him the last I’d seen him, peripherally, years before. But then he tried to lie about the past, saying we’d been intimate at some point, and we hadn’t been, I know that. Did he think he could Gaslight me?
Never met either of these guys in person, saw the red flags and discontinued contact.
Even though these 2 guys were very different, and the situations in which I’d interacted with them were different circumstances… Both seemed overly aggressive in their own ways.
The one sent multiple e-mails each time before I’d have a chance to answer even one. The other seemed at the point of obsession in regards of convincing me that I was wrong about something. Wasn’t very polite about it, yet wanted to hang out with me in person.

Creepiness, contradictions, evasiveness, show up in conversation in e-mails and on forums and such. You just have to be more observant.

And yeah, never fill in the blanks with your fantasy!

The other thing I thought of was #6. I dated a narcissist, and it seemed like for him sexual intimacy related interactions were a duty he had to do in order to have a girlfriend (to control). He acted like he was into it, but somehow I knew he wasn’t really into it the way I had sensed in the past with other men. He may have enjoyed it to some extent, but I remember saying I felt like I’d been with a prostitute. Though I’d never been with a prostitute, it just felt like it was for my benefit somehow. And it didn’t feel right or equal or something.
My experience was rather limited though as far as other men, so I didn’t think much about it until someone told me they believed him to have NPD, and I started reading about it.
But now reading here how sociopaths are “great in bed”… that relates to the whole duty/prostitute idea. And it makes sense. It’s a great way to seduce someone, to manipulate them. Sex can be like a drug in that sense. And in a more simple way, performing in bed can be likened to bringing roses or being very attentive.
And on a more basic level… Well, they’d have to be good in bed, wouldn’t they? If the sex was lousy too, who would put up with the rest of their s**t in a relationship? I’m sure they learned that pretty quickly.


Wp, the last “prostitute” reference is eery. My Psycho would refer to himself jokingly as a prostitute over and over. He claimed I was the one who he had been looking for, but he had been promiscuous like a prostitute before I came along (and during and after I’m sure).

His sex felt genuine. I’m just referring to his jokes.

Also, I never caught him in a lie. I guess he was that good. But all the other signs were there and blazing strong.


loserchooser, your observation about saying “i love you” all the time and wanting to be with you 24/7 definitely hits home with me. about a week after i had started hanging out with my “mistake” he would come over every day and i would basically spend almost every minute with him — which was strange for me, because im the kind of person that normally needs my own space and enough “me” time, especially when i barely knew the guy! a few months later after we had been dating, he left to study abroad for law school — and he flew me to italy, where he must have said “i love you” at least every 10 minutes. it got so redundant that i immediately sensed something was wrong and that he was cheating on me — which he was, with two other girls over in london who ended up contacting me. who even knows how many else there were. this must be some kind of common trait.


Oh the pity play and no close contact friends or family rings so true with my last ex husband psycho! I heard all about his ex wife and how she screwed him over and how his sister ripped him off of his inheritance when their father died and the list went on and on and on!! If I only knew then that things weren’t adding up, I would’ve ran like hell but he was so damn convincing and took complete advantage of my good-naturedness by going through a good portion of my savings. I finally had to hide my money and started gearing up to dump his lousy butt which took quite some time but I was able to finally walk away. It took him all of 3 months to find another sucker woman to worm his way into her family (which, go figure, have alot of money). I think he is the worst kind who gets in good with all a woman’s family and friends and then when things go bad, he turns on her, taking her money and friends and family with him, defaming her name all over town (as he did with his ex and then me). He ruined my good reputation so bad, that I had to leave the town I grew up in and start a new life, which has been very costly for me! When I look back on it, he was a very showy person in the beginning, showering me with lots of affection, playing the great guy and it all happened so fast my head was spinning. I couldn’t check his credentials because he kept that part of his life hidden from me and then little by little, his past crept up to him and the phone calls started coming. Some of them were from his ex-mother-in-law and own sister.


Here’s the thing. All these warnings, all these blogs from women. Would any of you run from the guy if you had read this say in the first few months of dating? I’ve been thinking about that. This is for the after the fact women. The thing about red flags, no one ever heeds them when they are having the pants charmed off of them. I even showed the guy/socio stuff I had read on the internet about sociopaths, obviously because my inner being knew to look into it…the outer one, not so quick to catch on. But he smoothly bullsh**ed his way out of it and I bought it. He said all the right things and then was cagey enough to cover his tracks and try a new tactic since he knew I could be suspicious. And it worked for months. Despite a few here and there incidences, but I made the carnal mistake of thinking my love could change him. All the other girls were different, he and I had a special bond. We were so alike…I was the only one in his life he could truely trust (after 2 months?) anyone see a pattern here?

i think another red flag is extreme patience. Just like a lion. They wait. They are stealth abusers. You can confront them with evidence and calmy, cooly they will assure you it’s someone else fault or problem. you could see the hotel bill in his hand from a rendevous with another woman and he could talk his way out of it and you’d be in bed with him that night. That’s how good they are. Patience, unwavering committment to duping you. It can go on an on, in fact, the more suspicious you become, the greater the hunt. It’s more fun for them to fool you even harder. Patience. A big red flag.

Sometimes I get so angry at myself for being manipulated like that. But socios are so good, if they get caught at their game they change and morph their game plan so you never see it coming. That is evil. The thing about the red flags is that they are the very things that make it so hard to see thru their act. Isn’t that ironic. The red flags disguise the red flags.

So to any woman reading because she thinks, hmmm. or found out about this sight surfing. It’s not different with you. He doesn’t love you anymore than the rest because he can’t. He’ll change and disguise his game and you’ll feel alright. For a while. Probably get some nice gifts out of it. But it ain’t worth. Someday it’ll come. And your life will never be the same.

So like these blogs warn, get out while you can. But you won’t. Because he made you believe it was different with you. Yeah, me too.


SMTP901, you’ve reminded me of this:


So very on target. My daughter is involved with one currently and cannot see the tree or the forest. He also wants to spend just about every moment of the day with her. He has been very effective in isolating her from her family. All of her ‘friends’ are people he knows because she didn’t have any friends of her own and was very lonely when he came on the scene. Too bad the people who need to understand these 7 traits cannot regonized them as problems.

“I’m sorry, but what can I do? He’s my son.”

This is what I heard from his adoptive mother, the banker, when I asked how she could have collaborated with him in emptying my corporate checking account into his personal account — to the tune of $20,000 .

Dopey me, I’d allowed him to take charge of finances at my company. But this woman, who had every reason to know what he was, put her hard-earned career at risk to do somthing she knew was wrong.

So family can be victims too. She was a nice woman — not too bright, according to him — but felt perpetually sorry for him. More than once, she called me to tell me he was “sorry” for something, or to beg me not to throw him out, at the few times I got close to finally having had enough.

His adoptive father, who he called a big loser, had no illusions about him. His sister left home as early as she could and made Special Forces in the Army. She was younger than him, also adopted, and he once let it slip they were sexually intimate as kids. I suspect she chose the Special Forces to make sure she’d be able to defend herself for the rest of her life.

If nothing else alerted me — and there was plenty I should have seen, but didn’t — I should have paid attention to the way he talked about his family and few friends. They were all stupid or misguided or crazy or broken in some way. And of course, he was adopted by the wrong people and forced to grow up in a place that wasn’t right for someone as gifted and talented as him — the changeling prince.

By the way, I got the money back by calling the bank’s lawyers and threatening to go to the bank regulators, if the money wasn’t returned to my account. He had signing authority, and it took a little time, but I got it.


10 years, 5 separated, and i still have nightmares that i’ve gone back to him. i took him in to my life, my heart, my home where he supplanted his 4 little children on my 3 young children. i lost my oldest teenage daughter for years- he was the push that shoved her over a precarious cliff she’d been dangling on- she wouldn’t bend to him like i did. i was well educated with a masters degree, had a good job, was debt free with family money. i owned my own home and was recenlty divorced.
He understood ‘everything i’d been through’.
He sympathized.
He had been wronged by his ex-wives, his ex-employers [he never held a full time job in all the years i’ve known him].
He was, after all, an ‘entrepreneur’ and i ‘did not understand the world of business’. [though my father had started and succeeded in building a company and financial success to which I was witness and participant].
He was for all intents and purposes, estranged from his family- all or most at any given time. His sister remains in contact with me. As does his ex wife [#2] with whom i have shared my heart and soul. Though she never loved him, she bore him 4 children [always my stepchildren] and we have shared many of the same horror stories.
He has of course moved on to his next victim- and she has on the same blinders as we did. She is well educated, has a great job, seems quite respectable, twice divorced, owns her own home- see a pattern? She’s ripe for the plucking!
He seduced me with sex and got money for years.
He criticized me daily about my weight, my ‘stupidity’, my ‘problems’, my children, my work life- pretty much anything he could find to critique.
He convinced me I was depressed and I took medication till my hair fell out.
He TRIED to convince me I had alzhiemer’s- luckily my doctor proved that i did not.
I would leave him, he’d stay away 6 months and then come crawling back, show up at my door, seduce me again- I’d let him back into my life and my pocketbook-which is all he ever wanted.
But i never let him move in again and consequently he eventually lost the house to foreclosure I’d bought and GAVE him – instead of selling it and making some money for both of us.
And he moved into a rental [from which he was eventually evicted after screwing that guy out of over 11k]. As i helped him unpack at the rental and waited for pizza for him and his son and friends- which I’d paid for of course, his son asked why was his picture and profile on a dating site [i often thank god for his son’s ‘seeming’ naivete]. I walked out that night and my divorce was final this past June. I did all the paperwork myself, all the filings, gave him not one cent more and gave away all of the crap he’d left in my yard- put it out on the street with a big FREE sign. it was all gone in 48 hours. Good riddance!
I don’t know why that ‘profile’ of what he wanted was the back breaking straw for me- perhaps it was the desire for a tall, lean, thin athletic woman [by the way- the new one is none of those things either!] put out there in black and white- that tipped the scales for me.
The good news is that I am out- not unscarred or emotionally intact- hopefully that will get better too- but at least OUT.
Healing has to start somewhere- one day at a time, one step at a time.
i’m lonely and it sickens me to say that there are times i miss him- how can that be? but it is the truth and has to be acknowledged. I know it is not HIM i miss but the illustion he portrayed, the sex he used as seduction, and the pseudo relationship he offered.
I remain strong and it does get easier.
I urge anyone who reads this to stay away from this man in the Metrowest area of Massachusetts. a 61 year old, once upon a time good looking, Italian descent ‘carpenter’, ‘salesman’ ‘window salesman’- he’ll want to borrow your car, sleep in your bed, cook you pasta, and ruin your life. BEWARE!!!!!!

I am just reeling from a 4 year relationship with someone I really believe is a sociopath.

We met when I was severely depressed and in the hospital for a suicide attempt I made after surgery.

He was there also for a “suicide attempt” though now knowing what I know it could all have been a fabricated attempt to have someplace to stay or to avoid prosecution for some crime commited.

He appeared sad and depressed at the time and told me the story of his abusive childhood and years of bouncing around foster care. I too came from a traumatic childhood having drug addicted parents and bouncing from one home to another. We connected on this level and he was so attentive to me showering me with affection and praise and helping me whenever he could.

He was living at a motel at the time and I helped him find a job, and let him move in with me and my roommate. He paid his rent on time and had two nice rooms downstairs while I had my room upstairs. We spend many nights together but some night if we were tired we would sleep apart. The sleeping apart happened more frequently.

He took a few jobs which never worked out and then the dry cleaners where I brough my clothes had an opening. He got hired immediately and worked there for a long time and even started managing 3 or 4 dry cleaners for the plant. He appeared to becoming successful and leaving his “old life” of crime (he had been in prison for 4 years). Our lives seemed to be headed in the right direction and he propsed marriage we became engaged and I didn’t like the ring he bought me so I traded it in and got another which angered and upset him but he was okay with it.

We went on an engagement vacation to the bahamas and had a great time. We were so “in love.”

I loaned him the money for a cheapy car so he could get back and forth to work, he fixed it up with his friend and the got into a small accident with it and said he didn’t want it anymore. His friend told me years later that he was driving recklessly and spun out on purpose and that is what caused the crash but he says he skidded on ice. Who knows what the truth is there.

When we got back he was still managing the cleaners, but he mentioned something about not being paid enough for his work and that he might start taking money. I told him this was a bad idea and to just ask for a raise and be patient. He called me a few weeks later to say that he was being accused of stealing but that he “didn’t do it.” It was someone else he said and because of his background he was being blamed. I spoke to the owner of the plant who state he “knew” he did it but couldn’t provide any proof.

I accepted that he didn’t do it and he immediately started working on business partnership with another dry cleaner owner. They opened another store and he was working it. This person co-signed for a car for him. He got into a car accident with this which wasn’t “his fault.” He started a lawsuit against the other driver and it was just a matter of time before his settlement came in.

He would “borrow” money from me which wasn’t so bad except it usually left me with little for my day. He had in the past given me money and was never stingy with gifts. I beleive of some level he really loved me.

I though couldn’t completely trust him after the incident with the dry cleaners, but I tried to put that behind us. I wasn’t as supportive as I should have been with his new business endeavor and I think he relied on me to rally him on.

He opened the new dry cleaners and I was reluctant to see the place and I should have been more excited for him.

For one reason or another he stated the business wasn’t working out because the person who sold it to them had been taking the business to his other cleaners. He was not really happy there I suppose and his car ended up getting repossessed after it was fixed from the accident. His partner claimed he was taking money from him though I never saw any of it. He stated that my ex was not really working the business but instead hanging out with his friends or walking around outside smoking or whatever.

In any event, he had the debit card for the business account and kept taking money out of it. I had in fact invested a small amount of money for business cards and advertising materials for the business and he gave me some of it back from the account. However, now he was without a car and a job again.

I was infuriated. I was dissappointed. I became verbally abusive toward him saying he was a loser and couldn’t do anything right. I know this made him feel even worse.

His partner then stated that it wasn’t that the business wasn’t making money but that he had been taking it out of the register and that is why the rent couldn’t get paid”etc.

I didn’t want to believe this I just couldn’t since he was given an opportunity to own his own place.

I was so mean to him I never accepted with gratitude any fo this gifts he gave me saying they weren’t what I really wanted. I am sure this made him really upset, but he never really showed it.

He would always do things for me to try to make me happy, if I needed anything done, he would always try his best and I would always say it wasn’t right or good enough. It was aweful the way I treated him, but looking back I see I was more angry about the things that I “didn’t know about.” Things he was secretive about or possibly hiding.

He said that whatever he tried I didn’t support him and stand by him and didn’t encourage him. This is true in some ways, I felt I was being lied to really. But I feel now if only I had been more excited about his business venture if only I had visited him at work when he was alone, things might have been different.

In any event, he now needed another car and another job. He got a job working at a gym and opened up every morning at 5:30am. I drove him to work every morning until we could get him another car. He got one from his friend which was a gas guzzler but it got him to work and I didn’t have to drive him every morning.

I was still pretty mean to him about things arguing that he was working for too little money and could do better and should have really tried to work the dry cleaners and just plain being nasty about the situation because it was not what I wanted. I was pretty selfish.

The gym thing started working well and he was about to get his settlement and I was still paying for some of his bills like his cell phone which was always like hundreds each month.

He would do strange things like text me instead of calling and emailing instead of talking to me face to face.

I didn’t mind. I was doing my own thing – running my business (which he helped me start up and gave me some money to help open and he was right there with me on the grand opening 3 years ago.) I find it hard to work the business now as he is gone.

This is really long and I am going to post this message and then continue—

Wednesday, 22 August 2007 @ 10:37am

holehearted says:
To continue”

He started managing the cafe of the gym and working the desk and he appeared to be working really hard.

I was doing my own thing and we were growing apart little by little and I became more and more mean to him.

He finally got his settlement and I begged for him to continue to work the gym while we invested the money in a small house or condo or something and then take money out to start another business (landscaping he wanted to do with his friend).

He got very angry with me and stated this is what he wanted and that he was taking his money and getting the landscaping business.

I felt it would be a waste of money and our furture would be in ruins. I told him he would not make it at the business or it would be too much work for him and he wouldn’t continue it.

He told me he was working at the gym and taking a 2 week vacation to open the business. He bought a truck from his friend and opened the business with him.

Turns out he got fired from the gym. His friend said it was because he stole money out of a safe. Don’t know how much at this point and that could have been a lie – He said he wasn’t feeling well and would open up and then leave and have someone punch out for him and that is why he got fired.

I think he may have also had another accident with his other car and that is why he needed the truck.

He gave me 5400 to put in my account to “invest in our future.” I took it thinking that at least we would have a buffer and I fully expected the business to not work and figured he would take it back from me little by little which he did.

He and his friend painted my business which at the time i was putting my heart and soul into. They did such a crappy job, there was paint on my floor, they didn’t tape anything up. There were streaks everywhere and he left the glass from a broken vase all over my floor downstairs. I was livid. I was crying so hard that he could treat my business this way. But then I guess in his mind I never supported him in his business and never went to see the equipment that he was so excited about that he figured why care about mine” anyway” I told him I was breaking up with him and I wasn’t going to give him his money back!

That started this whole big mess. He told me I was being unfair and that he loved me so much he wanted this to work. I told him if he tried to take the money I would have him arrested. Bad mistake to do to him and I know I should have been more understanding. Maybe I am the evil one” I can’t tell anymore.

He had moved out six months before and got his own place which was “not good enough for me” and I never vistited it. He said he was lonely and it didn’t feel like home to him.

I think he then really had it in for me. He told me his cat died and he needed money – I gave it to him feeling really guilty about what I had done.

He told me he needed money for other bills and things, and I have it back to him” his money” I guess” and little by little things started breaking down again.

He texted me that he was in another car accident with the truck and that he had busted ribs. I could not figure out why he was in so many accidents and to this day I don’t know if he really crashed his truck, because his friend was telling me so many wild and crazy stories about him.

I told him I would give him the money to get the car fixed but he said no he would pay it in time.

Then I get a call from his friend saying that he hadn’t seen him in days and wasn’t working with him. He had been with me and telling me he was working when he wasn’t with me.

Then his friend told me that his cat never really died.

I was PISSED. I came home and he was here and I said it’s over I am done with you.

We got into a fight about the crashed car and the business. he said he didn’t want to work the business with his friend anymore and that he was just going to give it to him.

I was really upset now. There were other times where I took off the ring and broke up with him, and it always upset him.

I know I sound like the bad guy in this story”.

Anyway, I railed into him and told him to leave and I have him whatever cash I had.

He called me later saying he was going to kill himself. He called me to pick him up and I called his friend to go get him which he saw as a betrayal. He had razors and was threatening to cut himself.

I went to pick him up and didn’t want to take him to my place meanwhile he said he couldn’t go back to his apartment because of a girl that was there and I guess he had not been paying his rent. So many lied and mixed truths, I don’t know what really happened.

Then, he’s screaming and telling me I never loved him and threatening to cut himself. I tried to take him to the hospital but he wouldn’t go. Then I just left him on the side of the road because he kept jumping out of my car.

I felt so guilty and he showed up at my door an hour later all bloody. I cleaned him up and was so angry at him still. I could not find any compassion in my heart for him.’

(I sound like the sociopath don’t I?)

I felt I was being manipulated by his lies. I don’t know. I woke up the next morning and ripped into him about being weak and not getting his life together and stealing. His friend told me he was smoking pot all the time. That he was really sick all the time taking himself to the emergency room. I thought he might be doing other drugs too. I don’t know anymore.

He left and called me later or texted me saying he wanted to die. I told him he did all this to himself. That I wasn’t trying to keep his money and that I was just angry about all the things that had gone on.

Well I started speaking to people who were telling me yes he stole from the dry cleaners and yes he stole from all his employers including the gym. Though some of the storied were lies and others were half truths. I still couldn’t figure it all out.

He called me from the hospital and I visited him. He didn’t seem suicidal to me. He said he did that so his friend (with the landscaping business) wouldn’t have him arrested which made no sense. He said that is why he couldn’t go back to his apartment. His friend had told me the police were looking for him which turned out not to be true since I called them and they said no they weren’t.

Sigh.. it gets so much worse”..

I called him at the hospital and told him he was a liar and a thief and I wanted nothing to do with him and that I was going to inform his employers he was a thief and that he stole over 3 years of my life. He called me back and told me if i messed with him I would lose everything” where I lived, my business” everything I loved”. and that is what he has been doing” under the guise of love and getting pity out of me and making me feel guilty for having been mean to him.

I ended up getting calls from him on an unfamiliar number after he was released from the hospital. It turned out to be a girl’s number. He was stating he wanted to kill himself and that he was sleeping in the park with these people who were released with him from the hospital.

Oh GOD” it goes on”. and gets worse and worse.

I ended up tracing the number and went looking for him” at this address connected to the number which turned out to be this girl’s parents house who pegged me for a unknown stalker and filed a complaint against me. I was no royally pissed and ended up finding him at a motel with her.

After all we had been through he shacks up with some whore at a motel” I was jealous and pissed and also guilty because I felt I drove him to this. That I somehow played a part in all of it I did in some ways.

I picked him up from the motel and asked him if this is what he wanted. I would give him whatever money I could. He started crying saying he still loved me and wanted to be with me and he ditched the girl at the motel and came home with me. He cried on the floor and all over the place and begged me to take him to another hospital. Which I did. He was there for a week and I then picked him up and brought him home. I was still pissed about the girl and all the stories of stealing and the car wrecks and the lies about the cats and everything.

We went to my mom’s and she was taking his side which pissed me off. I said how could it be that all these people are lying about you stealing. I just wanted the truth. But he made it out like I was the monster. In some ways I was.

I told him to go back to his whore at the motel if that is the kind of life he wanted to lead.

Well, he started crying again saying I was killing him and that I he was just rying to love me. I felt guilty once again and said I was sorry I was just angry and confused” which I was.

Then, that night he leaves with a bottle of ambien, leaves all his clothes here and takes $420 out of my account. The money I didn’t care about really, but thought well maybe he really is going to kill himself. So I filed a missing persons report”. another big mistake since the police have me on file as a stalker already.

They find him and he tells them he’s happy and well and that I am just a jealous jilted girlfriend (which is not entirely untrue), but I filed the report because he had me so twisted up I didn’t know what was real and what was not.

(to be ocontinued”.)

Wednesday, 22 August 2007 @ 11:10am

holehearted says:
Oh man, then he has his friend file a complaint against me because I had been calling him and going there to drop off his clothes and things. I don’t thing I was harrassing them in anyway. I mean they were both telling me so much lies. I mean if his friend really was lying about him why would he give the business to him? Why would he make up with him right?


Once the police came to my house and told me about the call, I was DONE.

Then about 45 minutes later I get a text message from him saying he’s going to be court mandated to a mental institution. Which was yet another lie.

He then tells me he’s out of state. Another lie.

Then he tells me he is right around the corner but had to lie to me to protect himself from me because he was scared of me.

I of course FEEL GUILTY again. And he tells me he wants me to pick him up on such and such date a specific time. I know he is with this girl and this girl’s father (who happend to be a cop) actually told me his daughter was a mentally unstable as he is (meaning my ex). He tells me they are out to destroy my life.

So I don’t go but I figure if I give him more money – he won’t hurt me. I give him about another $600 through meeting him at the train station and putting it in the mailbox.

SIGH.. I wanted him back” I felt so guilty like it was all my fault and that now he was going to go and be happy with someone else. My BOND with him got stronger and stronger”. this crazy love thing. I can’t explain it.

Well – he keeps insisting that I pick him up and that he can’t stand to be without me and only wants me and doesn’t love her.

Okay so I am a sucker and I pick him up. Bring him home. Long story – longer” he’s smoking pot (now I am smoking with him too), then he is using my computer and the laptop and I see him looking at jewelry and starter pistols. I am pissed.

I make up a screen name to text this girl and find out what’s going on. I tell her to send me the emails (she thinks I am him at this point). She send me pictures of them in bed together and all these emails from him about how I am history and how he loves her. I AM FUMING!!!

I tell him she’s sending me this shit and he doesn’t know at that point that I am asking for it. I ASKED FOR IT! I am a moron and a loser. I am the crazy one right?

So I call her a whore and tell her she’s being used and manipulated. Meanwhile they have this devious plan against me I am assuming.

Well, he winds up getting my roommate’s credit card number and charging up all this jewelry and a starter pistol.

He had been saying he is going to commit suicide by cop. He also tried to charge up a hotel for 1500 and more jewelry for 700 but the card gets declined. Once we found out he took the card number, my roommate calls the credit card companies and has all the charges reveresed and calls the Sheriff. (let me remind you I have like three striked aganst me already witht he police 1. this girl’s fater 2. his friend’s complaint 3. him on the missing person’s report saying I am out to get him.

So he plan is to blame me for the charges and get me arrested”. I am now trying to do everything to avoid this.

Then I get the phone call that he is in the hospital again and that he had put a gun in his mouth and his girl found him and brought him to the hospital (she says it was all a hoax because he didn’t have any more money for the room).

Anyway I am again in the middle of lies and feel sorry for him. Yeah I do and the way he sounds is so sincere so real so pitiful. I tell him I am sorry for everything that has gone on and maybe we can forgive each other and start over.

I go visit him in the hospital (mind you the police are looking for him and I filed a statement saying he had a starter pistol).

Ugh It all seems so UNREAL!!! But I couldn’t make this stuff up if I tried.

Okay so I go see him and he says not to come up” now I know this other girl is there” his next accomplice/victim love of his life that he is going to marry and have kids with and be happy while I am here miserable after 4 years of torment.

I see her leave and just watch” Then a few minutes later he comes running out in his bare socks” he snuck out or he says he busted the doors down. Who knows and there they are walking together. I pull over and look at him like what the hell??? She doesn’t even look at me so I know she’s just nervous. He tells me he broke out! Then all these cops start arriving. I had to go to work” so I leave”. Yes I leave him there with all the cops and shit” Aweful right?

Anyway I call her later and ask her what happened and she tells me they took him back to the hospital.

Which they did and drugged him up and I am like okay enough is enough! I am done with all this.

Then I get another call the next day that he is transferred to yet another hospital!!! Yes back to one of the one’s I took him too.

Like a fool I feel bad and I go visit him for the whole week (cops are still looking for him – you would figure the cops that picked him up would have whatever”. )

The local cops don’t know anything through and I am too afraid to tell them where he is.

I am still in my mind trying to help him!!

I pick him up from the hospital and we go to a motel – since he can’t come to my house (credit card thing).

I am trying to work it all out saying just apologize you weren’t in your right mind” we can get a place together it will all be alright.

Well we leave that motel the next day and he has me pay for another and go home to get some clothes.

I get back to the motel and he’s GONE!!! I try to get my money back but they won’t reimburse me”. I talk the guy into giving me half back.

UGH!! I feel like the biggest loser on the planet. I feel like maybe I was taken in by him from the beginning and he was just using me. Then I think maybe he really loved me and if only I had been more supportive of him and didn’t hurt him like I did.

So I call the police AGAIN!! To tell them that I was in touch with him and where he was the past few weeks. They are like do you know where he is NOW? Of course I don’t!

But I know he is with her and it is really pissing me off. I took him to get his haircut and he was so happy and I knew it was because he was going to go see her.

All this suicidal bullshit more lies and deception.

Part of me feels I deserve it.

Part of me feels like why should he go live a happy life now I am miserable” He should go to jail for all the crimes he commited. But I am afraid of him now. I am really thinking I am about to lose everything.

My roommate is pissed about the card and really wants me to move, I have not been working my business so it is failing. I am smoking like two packs a day. The cops think I am a crazy stalker who set up her ex boyfriend out of jealousy to get him arrested!!

And I am so depressed, miserable, alone, all my friends think I am nuts, no one will help me. I pray not to wake up in the morning. I think of him happy and frolicking with this other grils and that she is going to get the happy life with him I was supposed to have.

I feel cheated, manipulated, lied to. i feel like an abusive person for how I treated him through the relationshop. I am so confused angry hurt” I just don’t feel like I should live.

I feel like I deserve everything I get.

Please help!


Well, this was as though “I” had written this article. I just got out of an almost-year relationship with a socipath. I am happy to be out. He was having sex with at least 2 (that I now know of) former promiscuous “white trash” girlfriends, all the while claiming that he wanted a lifetime with me (along with all the usual promises and commitment lines). Trouble was, as you said in this article, everything was all “jumbled”, and typically when I felt my “antenna” go up and tried to (in a non-defensive way) confront him, he had ready answers to everything…the most recent being….”oh, you SHOULD write to be published…you have such a creative, active imagination”. Pathological lying (oh…well, if he was ‘breathing’….he was ‘lying’). I am not young.,..nearing 59….and he will be 60 in a few months. Sadly, way too late, I found out from his siblings that he has a string of failed relationships (3 failed marriages….cheated on all of them)…and since he’s been single again……he “overlaps” “good girls” (those with good jobs, money, good looks, and general societally acceptable) with the “bad girls”…..those he “pimps” (the sugar daddy….buys them gifts, gives them money….and in return, they themselves are wild sexually, and very promiscuous). Apparently, he always tells/told the “good girls” (when he met/meets them) that he just got out of a relationship with a “crazy”)……and when the all-night phone calls begin/began with one/two of those crazies…..the story was (his story) that they “just did that”….that he hadn’t had any contact with them, etc.. Oh…in reply to someone who talked about his lack of friends or invitations to normal holiday events……..he refused to go to any of the parties (Christmas and otherwise) that I was invited to (although he could have eaisly attended with me)….and never once in the time I dated him did he ever get an invitation from anyone (except I guess his trasy so-called “ex” girlfriends) to go anywhere, except to family reunions once in a while….and his family all lives within a few miles of him. One family member, the wife of eldest Brother, barred him from any of her family socials due to his having brought a local whore to one at which time they both apparently “acted out” since both were borderline drunk when they arrived (and this was with multiples of young children around). There is more, and even with that….and even with the obvious fact that I’m so glad to be away from him (almost 2 months now), I still miss the person “I thought” he “was”….the ulterior personality….the role he portrayed to keep me as long as he did. It took lots of strength and lots of cunning (on my own part) to finally get away from him for good. Little did I know, even though I am a psychology major myself, and utilized some of that in my endeavor….that I did exactly as some of the guidelines instructed related to getting away from him. I kept him “happy”…continued the “supply”, had planned my “getaway” for 3 weeks….and literally packed my things (I was at his house at the time for an extended holiday), sat down an wrote him a brief note telling him exactly what I knew about him, packed my car and left. He was at his part-time job that day, and though he’d called me twice that day, I just let him believe that everything was “normal”…that I was preparing to go to the store for food for dinner that night. I forbade him to every try to contact me again (in any form)…and told him that I WOULD take action if he did. True to their shallow egos..they are really “wussies” (and he is 6’2″)…and are frightended of any kind of exposure or legal action. Strength, respect, and greatest empathy to all those who have been through what I have……just GET OUT OF IT AND TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS!!!!


I have to say I agree with all these – but don’t forget that the sociopath is incredibly ingenious and manipulative.

1) They ‘compartmentalise’ – so you might meet some of the friends, but not all. I feel as if I was in the privileged position of ‘chief wife.’ So I met lots of quite old friends. But always felt that any relationships were superficial. NB: They lie to their friends, too.

2) They know no embarrassment – and they create new lies to cover up any noted inconsistencies in a heartbeat. So you feel mad for questioning them.

3) They don’t obey social norms, or feel under any pressure to. They take risks. Quite often, these brazen steps will convince EVERYBODY ELSE that everything they know is wrong, that he can’t be lying quite so much cos nobody would be that strange!

Also, don’t forget that sociopaths are probably (based on Stout, Hare et al) 50% nurture and 50% nature. So there is a high probability that they were raised by sociopaths as well. My ex-partner’s dad was distant then committed suicide. His mother was a religious freak who put the fear of God in him from his earliest days. The sister married twice to keep people in the country! All too weird. I used to feel sorry for them, but I now feel that was a whole family of sociopaths and the healthiest thing for the rest of the world is to just cut their losses and keep WELL AWAY from these ‘poor’ people. Rest assured – you’re not going to hurt them! RUN!


Check them out pretty early on. Dont just rely on what they tell you, cos they lie. Call on them as well, at home, at work, dont just rely on the mobile. My ex used his mobile phone to hide behind, he could have told me anything, and unless I went to his flat and knocked the door, he could be telling me anything. But I never knocked the door or called to his work because I didnt want to invade his privacy. In the end I was so suspicious and tormented I became like a detective and I even borrowed a wig and friends car to sit outside his flat. the last straw came when I found womens phone numbers on his phone and I suspect he tried to pick up a girl at a london market whilst I was elsewhere in the market. He was often testing me out, to see what I would put up with – in the end I realised he was grooming me for a sad wretched life, where I would end up living a subsistence life, whilst he was out drinking every night and no doubt being unfaithful and that I would have nothing else to fall back on – I JUST COULDNT CONTEMPLATE A LIFE LIKE THAT = THAT’S WHY HE HAD TO GO


The reason I think we dont see the red flags, is because in isolation they dont add to anything. If someone cancels a date because they are tired, you dont question it. If they tell you their last girlfriend went back to her ex – understandable, if they tell you they have to work Christmas Day because they are on a rota with other staff – how can you disprove that. But, on asking detailed questions, I never got detailed answers or answers that I could check on. He was very good at using excuses around his job (tired/got to work late) etc to lead a double life. When he used to tell me he loved me, it never felt right, it was like the words without the feelings. His behaviour was inconsistent at all levels. It was only after I finished the relationship and read more about the sociopath that all the pieces of behaviour, things he said, hints he dropped actually made sense, but they didnt make sense in isolation.


In the year an a half I knew him, I spent hundreds if not thousands of hours, talking about him, thinking about him, writing about him and although it has been over two months since I threw him out, he is still in my mind. The way he just used to walk out on me, when we had a minor disagreement, then he used to punish me by disappearing. I even spoke to his ex girlfriend to find out about him, because they had finished badly, but she didnt give me much information. I have enough information about him now to write a book in a strange sense, I know more about him as a person now I have finished with him, than when I was with him. I too am a kind nuturing woman and he totally took from me, and very cleverly censored what he gave back. He had a very abusive childhood and when I first met him he said he had demons in a box. Infact now I look back he dropped quite a few hints at the beginning, but I wanted to give him a go, that was a big mistake and I had no idea of the damage he would do to me emotionally – he never hits women (so I thought he was safe). I willingly opened myself up to this man, whilst he kept himself on the back burner. If I suggested meeting he would always turn me down. When we went on holiday, he would suggest spending a few hours apart. I said something out of turn abou this family and he never spoke to me for two days. I had prepared a great christmas for him, bought food and presents, and at the last minute he said he had to work. I got the impression he was seeing someone else. I could go on and on but in the year I knew this guy I was constantly on an emotionaly rollercoaster he was in no way worth it. I have used this to face my own demons, my relationship with my cold father, my shortcomings in relationship management, trying to nurture myself more and get my life back into balance. They are people who are sad, they will never have true love in their lives and that is sad, but they must be kept away from. There are so many tempting websites, chat lines for men who want to exploit themselves and others.





Very good article, and excellent points! However, to the casual observer or reader – very daunting. Having experienced a r/s with a flaming Narcissist, at times I feel overwhelmed and discouraged with the PROCESS of dating, sorting through the flakes and the painstaking eval. process of trying to discern if someone is TRULY sincere or if they are ‘mirroring’ me, my thoughts/desires/values/belief system/goals, etc… as part of a Narcissistic manipulation tool to “hook” me. At times, now that I know about N’s and P’s – I feel they are EVERYWHERE b/c I know what red flags to look for! You learn, after time in the dating pool – that it’s about looking for PATTERNS, no isolated or a one-time response.

Alas, I am in no hurry (anymore). Have learned the very hard lesson that it is far more important to learn as much as you can about a person and their history than it is to just have someone ‘special’ in my life. Right now, I am quite content learning to ‘fix’ my vulnerabilities.

I come from parents who exhibit very high degrees of Narcissism (though I don’t believe to be high enough for NPD). In my research and learning, I have repeatedly found one particular statement to be VERY true:

“we are attracted to what is familiar”

– in other words, if you come from backgrounds with little to no ‘healthy’ boundaries; where you were expected to not develope into your own healthy and competent person but rather exist to benefit OTHER people’s needs (were molded into a co-dependent) you are at MUCH greater risk of falling prey to N’s and P’s. ALL THE MORE REASON TO GO SLOW AND AT YOUR (repeat YOUR) own pace rather than allowing someone else to determine the pace of the relationship. N’s and P’s will EASILY be frustrated with this… after all, they move in strong and swift to ‘hook’ us before we even realize what’s going on or figure what they are about (b/c if we realize THAT, they wouldn’t be able to get what they want out of us – ATTENTION, ADORATION, and other forms of NS).

I think, alot of people are much harder on themselves than they are on others. Ending a relationship DOES NOT MAKE YOU A FAILURE or mean you are FLAWED in any way… bottom line, it means that you care enough about yourself, love yourself ENOUGH to NOT settle for anything less than you deserve (happy, healthy, authentic LOVE). Too many people, especially those hyper-criticized by N’s, feel that they ARE flawed when one or more relationship does not work out…. because DISORDERED people have drummed that into their brain over years or a lifetime. Why on earth would you believe a disordered person’s assessment of you or healthy relationships over your OWN assessment?? (food for thought).

To me… I believe, the KEYS are:

– Learning what healthy boundaries are, and PRACTICE implementing them and maintaining them. Some people need more boundary setting; other’s less. Even the SAME person may need more boundary setting in one area than another. HONE YOUR BOUNDARY SETTING SKILLS!! PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT.

– Learning what ‘red flags’ are AND what made/makes you vulnerable to them. Assess your own r/s patterns and history. With time, active examination – you WILL discover what made you vulnerable to that N in the first place. (for me, I am 38, biological clock ticking, and societal pressure not to become an ‘old maid’ factored HEAVILY into my ignoring/making excuses for some pretty huge hindsight red flags. That, the ‘charm’ and ‘charisma’; and believing things said by N, taking them at face value.. there’s ALWAYS two sides to each story – if ALL of their ex’s are ‘crazy’ – don’t ignore it… could be a HUGE red flag).

– GOING SLOW!!! Get off the relationship rat race! Who put a time clock on love anyway?? (probably YOU and society, family, etc…) But it is YOUR LIFE. You have to live with this person (ideally) for the rest of your lives – no one really enters marriage thinking it is ‘temporary’ until they find someone better (except an N or P, of course). Take your time, and the N’s and P’s will ‘out’ themselves!! Looking for dysfunctional and/or pathological patterns TAKES TIME, AWARENESS and GOOD BOUNDARY SETTING.


Someone please tell me if you think there was a female sociopath involved in the following true story:

Guy attends a random summer pool party. Is introduced to this attractive looking girl. In retrospect, guy finds out that the girl was asking everybody if he was single. Girls finds out that he was. Girl all of a sudden becomes interested with this guy. The party goers starts to play a drinking game. All of a sudden, the girl tells everyone she sleeps with a knife. No one calls her on that – it is lost in the mist. Guy & knife girl go swimming. Girl isolates the guy from others & lies thru teeth about accomplishments & drowns him with flattery & charm. They go back in the place. Girl gets more promiscuous with guy. Starts the initial contact – feeling or what ever. Lies even more about credentials. Guy then leaves place & learns afterwards that the girl got all angry & went nuts when guy left because she wanted to fuck him so “badly”. Guy also learns afterwards that she got desperate later on with the other present guys, spread her legs wide open, & asked any willing guy to fuck her. She was looking for a rebound guy.

All thoughts would be appreciated.


HR. I think if you read your own last two sentences, that will answer your own question.


Good point. What sort of category would you put someone like this in Beverly? Like a seductive sociopathic slut? Ultimately, what do these types of girls want? In your opinion, what do you think she really wanted out of fucking some random guy? I personally believe it was more than just fucking some random guy to have an orgasm or what ever. I really think she wanted something from that guy. What do you think? Girl was clever – had like a fake ID & everything. What do you think the point was by telling people she sleeps with a knife? Thanks!


After reading Hares’ book “without conscience” it almost seems that the sociopaths are the ones who personify the antichrist/


“Maybe something seems wrong but you can’t put your finger on it. Perhaps there’s a nagging feeling in your gut. Pay attention.”

There were many red flags and early on, I sensed my x-spath was hiding something. In all fairness to myself, after his very “Mr. Hyde” behavior on out third date, I told myself I was not going to contact him further. He was going back to London and that was going to be it. However, he did contact me.

I was honestly turned off to his first email to me, very cold. His first words were “I guess by now you have figured out this is me,” given his email address has a suffix. No “nice meeting you” or anything in reference to our dramatic evening two nights before. Just details of his plane flight home.

But then he began to “text bombing” me, saying things like he really wanted to get to know me more, that he needed to be more open like me and that he appreciated my honesty. So, again in all fairness to me, Dr. Jekyll started to work his charm again.

But the red flag was his next trip back. He was staying outside the city, so I told him I could stop by his hotel for a drink. His response “how will you get back home.” I found this very curious, as I would simply take the train home. What I did not realize is that London trains don’t run 24X7 and he clearly was uncomfortable with me perhaps being forced to stay in his hotel when the trains shut down.

I took this again that I was moving too fast for this “proper and reserved” British guy, so I quickly backed down.

Yet a week later he was OK spending the night at my place.

Calling him on all this one way or another would have saved me much grief.



I know…we will never figure them out. Never. Sometimes my head wants to explode and I find that keeping busy doesn’t help me. He’s still there…



In regards to this specific incident, one friend though he was clearly a flake, another thought he was involved with another flight attendant. This “advice” was from other gay men. The third cam from a straight woman who was also happened to be dating a British guy. She was the one who advised me to slow down little.

I basically dismissed the friend who told me he was a “flake,” even though this was true. I also paid very close to my phone conversations with the x-spath and was relieved when he stayed on the phone with me until almost 3 AM, indicating he was not having sex with another flight attendant.

In conversation the next morning, the x-spath further relieved me when he told me that his next flight had a longer layover and since he had more time, he would come stay by me. I took pressure off by saying no sex, cuddles only.

To this day, I believe this all ties into him hiding his HIV status. He was afraid to have me come to his hotel as maybe I snoop around and find medications. With him staying at my place, he did not have to worry about this since it was only one night…


ive been dealing with a horrendous sociopath for many years now..this monster….is worse than a con-artist…deranged cruel evil… on another level..he went so far as to dating a judge’s secretary so he can have charges pressed on me…and dsetroy my life…then he turns around and claims i destroyed his life….all while he did to me and keeps projecting…extremely twisted person…


he appaerntly dates judges secretaries to take control and dominate young women he’s victimizing thru the law beware of him… and they let this monster and maniac get away with this…he is a manipulator controller abuser very sick and cruel and treats people with cruelty….he is your average ‘charming’ sociopath with this personality and people might like him but deep down he is the devil and even claims he’s ‘dark energy’ he even does black magic on his victims and all sorts of weird crap…..he is also an extreme sadist and likes to see his victims scream in pain or suffer….evil twisted sick dark person beware



My spath did similar things – it was ok to come to my home, but not go to his – red flags everywhere – calling him on it would have made a lot of sense – but you are TRUSTWORTHY and YOU TRUST OTHERS. That’s why you didn’t see it.



Ox Drover

This is really a great article….and has very good advice in protecting yourself in the dating game….on line (not advised) or off line…knowing and honoring the RED FLAGS in life, with potential mates, friends and family, co-workers, any relationship, will keep you much safer!


Regarding online relationships, my ex spath is currently online with a blog playing the pity ploy big-time and he is on Twitter love-bombing any female that will give him the time of day. He is desperate for his next meal ticket/n-fuel/victim! He actually seeks out women that have been abused, claiming that he was also abused, so he “understands”! I will never seek a relationship with a man online, too risky!


My ex husband ticks every box. His current pity me ploy is the alleged suicide of his ‘cousin’; it is actually his nephew. During 13 very long years of marriage he never saw him once! Found out his mother (also a spath) has committed probate fraud, she hit me in front of him, my mother and children ..he just carried on with the washing up ..yellow to his core. He never saw her either until recently of course. The lies are endless, stupid, bizarre and they lie when it serves no purpose whatsoever ..because they can ..and of course they are pleased with themselves ..another sucker!

The ex met a sociopath (online Friends reunited), married her, she divorced him 15 months later. She certainly didn’t want ‘our’ children on the scene especially as they figured her out very early on. The jealousy emanates from every her every pore. 2 people who deserved one another, she has fleeced him and then kicked him out …karma.

Last week I was received a text from a married man I am working with inviting me to his hotel for a drink. Now he is pleasant enough, but I didn’t reply ..He is probably a bit lonely, but married all the same. The same week I received a letter from another man, someone I worked with years ago ..I have not replied and in October I received a letter from an old girlfriend (who used me), asking for contact ..I have not replied. At these times I think of Oxy (strange I know!) ..and think what would Oxy advise ..none of these individuals are spaths but I have a choice …as we all do.

I am finally at peace with myself; my children, family and real friends are all that matters. The past cannot be changed, but we can all shape our future by staying away from people who are toxic, selfish and inhumane ..whether they are online or not …EnnLondon is correct run away and stay away.

Excellent article by Donna (yet again). I actually printed this post and it is now in my handbag as a keepsake ..

Ox Drover

Dear Movingon,.

GOOD GIRL!!!! TOWANDA!!! My psychopathic son Patrick, was giving the prison psychologist a “pity ploy” so he could stay in a cell where his cell phone was less likely to be discovered than it might be in a dorm-type situation. He told her how he was grieving for the death of his “nephew” who was a 13 year old kid when my other son had married the boy’s mother—Patrick had never met this boy, never talked to him, never written him, had NO CONTACT with him, but was using the death of this kid at age 21 as a “pity ploy” and the psychologist felt so much pity for this poor inmate, locked up and couldn’t even go to the funeral of his “nephew” LOL Of course there was a 1% grain of truth in the story, and 99% falsehood, but if he had been called BS on this, he could have proven that his bother’s step son had indeed died. LOL (head shaking here)

When psychopaths want to put on the pity ploy or the “I have changed” face, especially after years have passed and they hope that you have forgotten how badly they screwed you the last time….yea, NO REPLY is the PROPER RESPONSE to these people. I’m glad your “internal OxDrover” is active! Makes me smile! (((hugs))))


Thanks Oxy, ((hugs to you too)). The ex spath told a judge he was unable to respond to letters posted and emailed to him as he was looking ‘for the body’ ..’really’ says judge, then he claims he had no internet access, judge to spath ‘I see you have a smart phone’, without missing a beat ‘I had no phone signal either’! Turns out he was out shopping and not within 200 miles of this alleged suicide! At every court appearance he mentions this ‘suicide’,’family tragedy’; they have never even found a body, his nephew is classified as missing. As we have the same judge in Feb, should be amusing, as she certainly didn’t believe a word out of its mouth. He is certainly milking it, he couldn’t careless of course, just like your son Patrick. ((my internal oxydetector is on and working just fine))


Movingon , Ox,

The ex …..yawn….stil trying to encroach on my life sending txts using pity ploy. Have maintained the NC approach and feel better in so many respects. But he is still in my head….get thee behind me Satan springs to mind. Lol. Seriously, when is this spath leave me alone.

Anyway, in ref to this great article I refer to a previous thread….. He, my ex used to love to say I dragged up the past if i ever dared to challenge him on his previous record of “I’m sorry, it won’t happen again, I love you baby, bla bla bla.
I took so much crap from him when, as my daughter pointed out to me when I was still seeing him.; “Mum, you’re such a strong person normally. Why do you let him treat you like s##t?”
Sorry to sound so self indulgent but finding it hard to forgive. Myself. Despite what I have read here, I feel guilty for my mistake

Ox Drover


Yea, “out looking for the body” LOL Gosh that is rich! ROTFLMAO

Well, I hope the young man didn’t kill himself or someone didn’t kill him, and I am sure that for those that truly love him, having him “missing” is devastating, but we know it isn’t your X is it? LOL

Our internal dialogs, our internal beliefs, do help guide us, and I am honored that you have an internal “oxy” detector! My own internal guardian is based on what my late and very beloved step father would have advised. He was a wonderful man, and though he too was hoodwinked by my egg donor, none-the-less, he recognized my son Patrick as a fake and not redeemable when Patrick was 15 or 16. He also advised me about other people that I was hoodwinked by and any time I didn’t listen, I found out later he definitely was right. I wish I had listened to his advice more when he was alive, but I don’t have any problem now knowing what he would advise…it is pretty simple…if the person is not 100% honest, avoid them.

Ox Drover


Forgiving yourself I think is the HARDEST PART, and I can definitely relate to that. But you are ALLOWED to not be “perfect” and still be OK….and so am I. That was hard to get through my thick head and sometimes I still have to remind myself it is OKAY NOT TO BE PERFECT. It is okay! It is OKAY!!!! (((hugs)))


Strongawoman, you loved someone who didn’t exist, how can that be your fault, you were duped, we all have been, some more than others. You made a mistake ..who hasn’t did however get away from him and are maintaining NC, which can be exhausting and as draining as being with a spath. You are doing brilliantly, and you clearly have a daughter who cares about you and your well being ..he’ll go away when he finds his next victim. Forgiving yourself is definitely the hardest part, especially if it has impacted others. If you were soulless like a spath, you wouldn’t care.



Good for you. All of those teases and you didn’t respond ONCE. Congratulations.



Ox, moveingon, thanks. Kind words of encouragement ….thank you. LF is a life saver.

the sisterhood

I am logging on because I need some encouragement tonight. I am upset with myself for even allowing my ex-spath to enter my mind tonight. I don’t want him to be there. But I am sure he would be tickled pink if he knew that I was thinking about him.

My ex-spath sought after me for five years. He would tell certain people that I was the girl he loved (even though he had a girlfriend) Eventually he won me over and I fell head over heels. He had put me on such a pedestal and wrote me the most elaborate, beautiful, intoxicating love letters.

Once I told him that I had fallen in love with him and that he would have to make a choice between me and his girlfriend because it wasn’t fair to either of us, everything changed. He was not the same person I thought he was. He became distant and irritated.

I took this behavior as just him being confused in love and didn’t want to hurt his girlfriend. I understood but thought that since I was the “love of his life” that he would still show me the same kind of love that he had shown me before. Our love was so intense before the ultimatum. But after he broke up with his girlfriend and was with me, he was completely different towards me.

Here is just a small list of what my experience was like with him:
-I could never measure up to his intelligence. I was always reminded of where I stood on the intellectual scale.

-He disliked my family and thought they were severe white trash.

-He would slander me behind my back to his friends and family telling them that I was too controlling and that he wanted out. All the while, telling me that he loved me and wanted a relationship with me.

-He humiliated me publically on several occasions and then acted like all was fine or that I was the one who caused all the fuss.

-He was very condescending to me when we were among his friends. His friends would join in with arrogant behavior towards me. He would also ignore me if we were around his friends unless it suited a purpose for him to show me any attention.
(We once went up to visit his friends at college where they were having a party. It was all guys and me. We were in a huge hot tub and he was hanging with his friends. All of a sudden he approached me and started kissing me. I was all excited because he was showing me attention and affection in front of his friends. He wound up slipping aside my underware and entering me a couple of times. I told him to stop because his friends could see, but he said not to worry and they couldn’t see. After the deed, he completely ignored me. He wouldn’t even kiss me anymore that evening citing that he was uncomfortable fooling around in front of his friends and that it was his friend’s appartment, so it wouldn’t be right. He barely talked to me the rest of the evening)

-He told all of his friends every initmate detail about our sexual experiences. His friends would then feel it alright to treat me like a whore. (A couple of his friends actually took advantage of me a year after my breakup with my spath. It was all very twisted)

-I was never allowed to be excited to see him or jump into his arms or show any kind of affection publically. He was noticebly crawling out of his skin when he was with me. But he would then get upset if I showed excitement when I would see an old friend and tell me, “You never show that kind of sweetness and excitement towards me.”

-His father was sexually deviant and had sex with his half-sister throughout his childhood. (His sister and father are not related) She was only 15-17 however. He would hear everything while he was downstairs watching T.V. and his mother was out of the house shopping. He continued to have a relationship with his father and just thought his father had a funny idea about love.

My ex never beat me and never stole from me. So I question weather or not he is actually a sociopath/ narcissist or just a guy who was doing what other guys in their early twenties do.

He married the girl he left me for and appears to have a lovely life. It kills me because I feel like his only victim. His ex-girlfriend nor his wife were treated to their faces the way I was treated. His friends LOVE his ex and his current wife.

I am struggling with the idea that my ex-spath is so gifted with convincing people that he is the victim, the good guy. He has made excuses for his treatment of me by telling people that he was just young and immature.

I guess I just needed to vent tonight.

Ox Drover

Dear the sisterhood,

You describe a man who is a TOTAL PSYCHOPATH….he shows total disrespect for you as a human being….everything he did to you was showing that he had NO RESPECT for you.

NO ONE treats anyone this way unless they are very high in psychopathic traits.

The thing is, Sister, the woman he married may think he is “in love” with her, but I can just about write you a guarentee that he has NO love for any woman.

What others think of him, or of the other women he is or was involved with is TOTALLY UNIMPORTANT. What IS important is that YOU KNOW what kind of a nasty piece of carp he is.

We must learn to validate our own thoughts, that they are true. Even if we are the ONLY person in the world who knows that, it doesn’t change the truth.

Back when people thought that the world was FLAT, Columbus thought it was round, but he was probably the only one who did. That did not change the shape of the earth though because no one believed him.

Believe in YOURSELF, Sister….God bless. Hang in there. (((hugs)))

the sisterhood

Thanks, Oxy! I need that reinforcement. I’m just so sad tonight. I have to keep reminding myself how blessed my life is now. I can’t compare myself to his wife. It gets me nowhere. I have to believe that I am good enough and that I certainly deserve better than my ex-spath.

Life isn’t fair sometimes. I’m really trying to learn my lessons from this. It is all such a shame.

Thank you again, Oxy. It means so much to me to hear your words of wisdom.


I agree with Oxy, “NO ONE treats anyone this way unless they are very high in psychopathic traits.” We can’t take it personally, it isn’t as if he is only that mean to you. His other relationships are just as psychologically abusive as yours was. More than likely, he is not capable of real attachment and love. Yes, we understand, it is very painful when they dupe friends and/or family that he is the victim. There is no excuse for the way he treated you! My ex did the same thing! I so agree with everything Oxy said!!

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