I want to express my deepest appreciation and thanks for this site. I have questions for which I can’t find answers. Admittedly I’m new to this forum and I’m sure my story isn’t unique as I’ve read MY story over and over LOL! I’m clearly among my peeps. I say that with humor and with heartache because my family and friends do not understand my situation by no fault of their own. 1- having never been exposed to a sociopath their advice was based on a normal relationship. And 2- I didn’t share most of what happened out of embarrassment.
I didn’t even realize my X was a sociopath until recently, 3 years after the final breakup. I couldn’t figure out why I wasn’t bouncing back, why I had no desire to date again albeit being very lonely, why I missed him so much even though I was only a mouse to his cat, and why I was not be able to heal. I was mistakenly trying to handle it on my own thinking he was just a jerk and basing my “recovery” on past normal relationships.
I found this site by accident and in reading, actually devouring, other peoples’ stories (because it was finally all making sense to me) really bad feelings that I had clearly repressed are coming to the surface. So I’m experiencing this as if we just broke up.
In a nutshell, I was in absolute heaven those first 2 years. I had just gotten divorced from a rather loveless marriage. I married my best friend who turns out was a lousy husband…but that’s another story. He was normal, just not marriage material. We’re still friends to this day and have 2 children together.
So there I was at 45, optimistic, ready to start over. I met my spath just one week later. I had no plans to fall in love, thinking I would date a bit and maybe get lucky in a year or two.
My spath had never been married and never had children. Warning!! He was 5 years my junior; but he said he was finally ready for a family and immediately included my kids in his plans. He coached my son’s little league, mowed my lawn, we went on family vacations, he upgraded his truck to an extended cab with back seat for the kids, offered a shoulder to cry on when my sister passed away, expensive gifts. Total love bomb. But then it changed.
You know the drill. I was looking for commitment, wanting to plan a real future. Silly me. Don’t get me wrong, the sex remained fantastic and we still took vacations. But I started seeing him less and less, except for weekends I didn’t have the kids. I told him I’m a package deal and we broke up for the first time.
Three more times we got back together and three more times we broke up over the course of the next 6 years. Each time was worse than the one before. The mental and psychological abuse wore me down to having no self esteem, no friends, being alone on holidays, and gift giving stopped. So did his interest in my children. I realize now he was wooing someone else but I didn’t see it back then. He always had a good excuse.
Now that I know what he is and that I didn’t do anything wrong (other than let it continue), I feel I can get on with my recovery – finally! I used to be a secure, strong loving person; surely I can find her again. Hopefully I can trust again.
My questions are:
Why didn’t his family warn me? We were together 8 years (on and off) Why did they sit back and watch yet another woman be crushed? I think I’m more angry with them than I am with him or myself. Did they choose to stick their collective head in the sand? Any ideas or experiences you can share with me to help me with this newly found anger?
Mary Ann Glynn on why a support group helps recovery from a sociopath
shescomeundone – I know of four reasons why families may not warn you:
1. The family is clueless. The family may not see the predatory behavior, because the perp isn’t around that much. This happened in my case – my ex had left his native Australia and moved to the US. He visited, but he was putting on his act with his family, so they really had no idea what he was really like. I met the family, and they all seemed to be normal. No one discouraged me.
2. The family is complicit. Personality disorders are highly genetic, so often the perp’s parents, siblings or other relatives are also disordered. They’re all in on the game.
3. The family hopes you will fix the perp. Sometimes they may know the perp has problems, but don’t realize the extend of the disorder. They hope a good partner will “straighten him/her out.”
4. The family wants you to take him off their hands. They know very well that the perp is a disaster, and are tired of dealing with it. I know of one mother of the perp who said to his new bride on their wedding day, “He’s your problem now.”
Thank you Donna. After reading this I think it’s a combination of 2, 3, and 4. We visited with them often. But I could tell he was trying to impress them with how we got along. He always told me to “be sweet” when we went over there. His sister kinda clued me in by saying I was so normal, which at the time I didn’t pick up on. Of course I’m normal. So I dismissed it as being a weird comment. Looking back, I think she was trying, but since the whole family spoke in half truths and incomplete sentences much of what they said left you jumping to your own conclusions aND fwelding a bit confused. His mom said “you better marry this one cuz you know you’re not the easiest person to live with.” so I that was clearly #4. Then the visits stopped. I felt used like “proof” he could get a normal girl and once that was done, he expected them to treat him better. He was always a victim of someone – so mistreated. Basically he’s a bully and deserves any mistreatment he gets in my opinion.
Yes, and my son would tell stories of his abusive childhood to reel the victim in.
Some families only get the good side of a spath…he charms them and they all exist in a fake bubble, where he plays the funny, good, sweet brother/son. So long as this works for them, and he does his evil outside of their family, they really don’t care. All they care about is that its happy families for them.
I’m of the opinion spaths have to come from highly dysfunctional families and one of the traits is that they deal in lies, illusions and fakeness. Where do you think the spath learnt it from?
So basically, some families could not care less and are complicit in the lie…they know deep down what he is, but so long as on their time he plays his happy brother/son role, they don’t care what havoc he is causing someone else. These kinds of families are also like cults. They reward those who play the game in their family (keep up the lies/illusion and who have undying loyalty even at expense of truth, and turn on anyone who dares to break ranks.) Many decent, truth loving in laws have suffered that fate.
Look at families of people like Ted Bundy (his mother) and Scott Peterson (Lacey Petersons husband.) Their families did not care about the truth and only cared about worshipping their son/brother. They are just as sick and evil in my opinion and helped to create the monster.
Shescomeundone, You will surely recover now that you know what actually happened. I was involved with several of these sorts, over an extended period of time, before I finally understood what I was up against. Initially this made me quite emotionally labile, unable to focus, just kind of a mess. But once the initial shock and despair wore off I felt very capable of redirecting my life, and reclaiming my heart and mind.
Prior to that I did what you have done and processed those experiences like any ‘normal’ loss. But the knowledge of how these types operated helped me re-frame all my experiences, place responsibilities where they belonged, and start to let go of my feelings of inadequacy, loss, and shame.
It also helped me avoid further entanglements, and find a loving partner.
Keep reading and venting and processing. You are on your way.
Slim
Thanks slim. I do feel a weight being lifted. I have been a mess. Because I wanted my friends to like him I didn’t tell them the things he did. But I feel like I can here. He was so many different people I really thought he had DID. How can you make love with someone then turn on a dime, call them names, stupid, weak, fat, then say “I’m just joking honey”? Who does that? What kills me is that I took it. Over and over I took it. I felt so comfortable with him and uncomfortable at the same time, if that makes any sense. One time we broke up because he flipped out when driving us from my house to his, and threatened to drive to the BAD part of town, drop me off with the rest of the Crack Ho’s and see how I like getting gang raped. Wtf!?! I dont even know what set him off. I was so scared he would do it I jumped out of the truck when he stopped at a traffic light and started walking back to my house, about 2 miles away. I called a friend (back when I still had them) to pick me up. He kept driving in circles screaming it was a joke and to get back in the truck. No way! But 4 months later he came crawling back begging forgivness and I let him back in. Doh! It was a roller coaster. Punish for no reason, love like there’s no tomorrow, then isolation. I was always on shaky ground. It was like I was in a fog for years. So when I finally left for good, it took all my willpower to ignore the texts and phonecalls. He tried so hard to get me back, even proposed. I thank God, or my guardian angel, or some small part of who I still was deep inside to stay strong and ignore him. Wow… you are right – it feels so good to put that out into the ethers and let it go.
shescomeundone – just so you know – everything you describe is typical sociopathic behavior. He is textbook. Nothing you could have done would have made a difference.
Thanks Donna! What y’all are doing is very good work. I just wish I hadn’t wasted so many years trying to fix him, adjusting to his ever-changing demands. Then more wasted years trying to get over him, until fully realizing what I was up against. I feel so stupid. But i know im not alone. Because of this site, im enlightened and have done more healing in 2 weeks than I did in 3 years on my own. I signed up for the group therapy session on Sunday and scheduled a healing massage on Monday! Im so done being a victim. But I’m also very pissed off. I think these past years got me through the grief part, but not the rest of it. I want him out of my head.
shescomeundone,
All of us have had these bizarre experiences, some more so even, and somehow tried to make sense of them. We have stayed for varying lengths of time, or maybe had a string of these bad experiences for most of our lives. I TOTALLY get what you say about being comfortable and uncomfortable at the same time. A HALLMARK feeling of being with someone who is disordered.
The behaviors of disordered individuals are highly calibrated to effect the target in very certain way; emotionally, biologically, and psychologically. Our whole being is effected. I would say these behaviors are hardwired into these people to perform them. Though they can control them from moment to moment they cannot stop being what they are, and the cycle will happen regardless of a momentary suspension of behavior. Overall the behaviors that they perpetrate on us maximize the success of the abuser to control us and extract whatever they need from us.
We respond on all levels, because our hard-wiring is stimulated by their behaviors. So we need to heal on all fronts: physically, mentally, emotionally; attending to our whole being in order to reclaim ourselves.
The easiest (not that it’s easy) way is first to cut, 100%, all contact. Then we can attend to our bodies (sleep, food, movement, maybe medications), minds (counseling, friend support, family support, and maybe medications), and our emotions (facing them fully, and going through the stages of grief). All of this work happens in concert to create healing.
I hear you! Control was his middle name! I’ve been reading sandra brown’s articles and finding strength in each one. As a single mom, chouffure, school events, employee, home owner, my burdens are many. So there wasn’t time left over for ME. Or so I thought. Now I’m making time for me and not feeling guilty about it. Well, I still feel a little guilty. I’ve shared with my kids what I’m going through, now that they’re old enough to understand, instead of putting on that brave face that mom’s have to do sometimes. They are totally behind me and get that i need to fix me. My son said, better late than never Mom! And my daughter volunteered to do the cooking for a bit so i can go out after work if i want to. Dont know what i would do without them. At least that SOB focused on me and not them! I asked if they had any “feelings” about him they wanted to share and both said they are doing just fine, glad he’s gone. Now that I know what I know, I’m keeping an eye out to make sure they really are okay. Thank you for your kind words and insight. It means a lot!
BECAUSE IF THEY DID—-> YOU WOULDN’T BELIEVE THEM! That’s why!!!!
He’d convince you that his family (or friend, friends, co-workers and ESPECIALLY other Xs) that they were all crazy. Or some other reason that you’d ignorantly believe- that is until YOU became an X!!!!!!
Duh…Your comment definitely rang true in my case! I always chose to give him the benefit of any doubt, regardless of mounting evidence to the contrary, because I wanted and needed to believe his lies.
But, I did ask his family members about his boastful past and never once received any confirmations or denials from any of them.
One exception… his SIL did tell me (more than once) that due to my influence, his behavior had really improved.
Agreed, what I was trying to say – and in my case my son had an abusive Dad which I divorced then went into another unhealthy relationship. But he was already on his own path much before this.. It’s hard to say what sets them off or if it’s simply genetics. He has a younger brother, who is 180 degrees different and, I know for sure, is a happily married man and finally a dad. His brother knew his older brother was bad news, but didn’t say too much and kept distance from him. I finally let go of all this stuff in my life and went into a Spiritual healing process for 5 years before I trusted myself to finally meet someone that was a regular human being and it’s working now – almost 20 years. Now I am in the process of healing from this enlightenment in my life and am gradually, with the knowledge, finding Peace.
I should have mentioned that when he was 19 I tried to get help for him because he kept getting into trouble – mostly over money which he was scamming in different ways. But that didn’t work very well because he conned the Psychiatrist into believing it was all my fault! Some help!
shescomeundone, I wondered the same thing after my breakup with my ex. I too, didn’t realize he was a sociopath until months after our breakup.
We have a child together so unfortunately, I have had to stay in contact with his parents. Luckily they only pop up once a year or so, although I’m considering cutting ties, but that’s a whole different subject for another thread.
In conversations following our separation, his dad straight up told me that my ex has sociopathic tendencies. I had had this realization before his dad mentioned it to me, but still I wondered for months: WHY DIDN’T YOU WARN ME?! It seemed so cruel to just let someone go headfirst into a relationship with a person that you know is evil. Over time I’ve realized that Donna is right in so many ways, in the answers that she laid out for you. In my case — A) His parents don’t realize the extent of his issues (especially his mother, she almost seems to be in complete denial). B) They DESPERATELY want him fixed. I think they believe that a good woman will fix him, or at least calm the beast that is within him. I think more than anything, they’re embarrassed and ashamed of the person they’ve raised. They want to walk proud among the rest of their extended family. For them, life is very superficial and all about appearance. They’ve definitely bred that into their son as well.
My ex is now in a new relationship and, as with his other relationships following ours, I’ve wondered: Should I warn this woman?? The answer for me is no, and my reasoning is different than his parents’. I won’t warn her because she won’t believe me. His ability to lie and put the spin on things is unlike anyone else I have ever known. He’ll convince her I’m crazy, I’m a liar, I’m jealous and just want them to break up so I can have him back, etc. I’d only be putting myself and my daughter in danger, putting us in his line of fire again. Meanwhile, my ex’s father is encouraging this new relationship, with “likes” and encouraging comments on Facebook when the spath posts about the two of them and their “wonderful” partnership. These days I find his father to be more despicable and disgusting than my ex, and that is really saying something.
Good luck to you in your healing process. It’s taken me a long time, but I’m able to trust again. I’m still single and haven’t even been on one date since our breakup five years ago, but for a long time after our relationship ended I didn’t trust a word anyone said to me. I was very jaded and angry for a very long time. Things are much better now. There is light at the end of the tunnel for you too!
Warning potential partners has been discussed a lot on this forum and Donna’s comments ring very true to me. In addition, warning your replacement is futile, she won’t believe you.
My ex moved on in classic style; within a year he realised that he’d met his match, initially she was very pleased with herself and cruelly plastered photos of them together over social media, this is how I found out that our break was not temporary. However, he soon found out that she’s a controlling and demanding person, not something a narcissist takes kindly to.
In her partial defence, she must have thought she’d found her dream partner: she sold her house, moved and bought them a house to live in as I did, I hear from friends that’s she’s very bitter about what’s happened to her, perhaps she would like to listen now?
All that Donna said is true regarding the reasons that a family may not warn a potential victim of the spath.
The family members who are spaths themselves, or flying monkeys, will never warn a person for obvious reasons. The so called ‘normal’ family members may actually be denying the truth, and hoping that THIS time, the spath may ‘turn’ normal and be able to treat someone else in a normal manner. Of course, this will never happen.
It’s tragic, really, having a spath or spath/s in one’s family, and knowing that something is very off and wrong, yet not knowing what that REALLY means until research and absolute acceptance is done.
These words ring so true for me! Thanks for sharing! I have not dated in over 3 years. Still don’t want to. Not ready. Definitely have trust and anger issues to resolve. I’ve never been an angry or spiteful person so these feelings aren’t sitting well with me. But I’m hopeful.
Why don’t they warn you? I was also married to an abusive (physically, sexually, emotionally) narc/spath. His family knew and they all eventually disowned him completely. There had abuse and violence before I ever met him. I think they hoped I would fix him, plus they were ashamed. Plus I was nothing to them, they had no bond with me and pretty much didn’t care.
his family didn’t warn me, because his mom, his grandmother (even worse)..were as dysfunctional as he was! his mother had been in mental hospitals for shock treatments, years before. In fact, the first time I met her, she had just been released from a hospital! It was almost like being ‘the new normal’..I had NO clue how widespread mental issues were, in his family. (and he had the gall to tell me how crazy MY people were). His mom’s mother (we farmed the farm they had lived on)..was a control freak, a compulsive talker. In a way, I believe, they were GLAD that somebody (anybody) would marry him, so they didn’t have to deal with him. Unfortunately, it was me.
Yeah my ex-MIL was a very manipulative narc. She trained her son well! And he was also always trying to convince me that my family had “mental health problems”. Well after meeting him I did develop massive anxiety which I now know is PTSD. Then he used that against me to say I couldn’t handle anything without getting angry and stressed out. The GREAT news is that once he packed his crap and left he packed the crazy with him. No more anxiety unless someone mentions his name.
the morning of the day before our wedding, my MIL to be, came to my apartment, woke me up and took me downtown for breakfast. I thought it was odd, even for HER. She hemmed and hawed around, about making sure her son took his pills (for bi polar) on time, got his monthly bloodwork done, and oh, by the way, was I SURE I wanted to marry him? It was a beginning of many strange, odd conversations I was to have with her, in the years to come. I figured it was HER way of trying to cut me off of marrying her son. In retrospect, I should have thrown the engagement ring back at him, called off the whole sorry mess and took my parent’s offer to get a bus ticket to an uncle’s house in Michigan! There WAS a definite strain of crazy in his mother’s family line!
Thanks everyone for your insight and sharing. Very much appreciated! We all seem to relate to at least one of the situations Donna listed. I’m an analitical person by nature, so for my own healing, I’ve not been able to just accept he’s gone, I was trying to understand why. But through reading and talking and finally opening up about what happened, I’ve learned my biggest lesson so far: it doesn’t matter “why me?” It’s the “why him” which helps the most. Helps take the burden of shame off me and places it where it belongs!
So now I’m working through the anger of it all. I’m sure that while I was his targeted punching bag, their time with him was probably more bearable. They like when he has someone cuz he’s calmer in their world when he does.
Don’t know how normal this fantasy is, but I would love to run into them at some point and just shame them back. No words, just shaking my head and maybe the mom finger (index not middle) back and forth at them; then turning my back walking away head held high. I’d be smiling for sure! For me not them.
Sorry, I realize this conversation is coming to a close, but your “why me” note caught my eye. I realized that my ex targeted me because I was an “easy” target. Not because I’m a weak, dependent woman who needs a man in her life for support in all aspects of life — quite the opposite actually — but because I was kind, happy, generous, trusting and I make decent money. He took advantage of all of that. At first I thought I was such an idiot for falling for his BS, but now I’m able to look at it differently. He chose me because I stood out in a good way, because I was a good person. He fooled me because I never could have fathomed someone could be as devilish as he is. Now I know better. I am no longer quite as kind, generous or trusting as I was before I met him. Hopefully one day I’ll get back to the old me.
Anyways, my point is to say, don’t blame yourself for falling victim. My ex wasn’t the brightest bulb in the box, but he could win an Oscar for his acting abilities and he had a real knack for reading people and setting his target on the type that would bend over backwards for him, only to kick them while they were in mid-bend.
Thank you! All insight helps. It really does. I too was kind, accomplished, generous, friendly. I see your point. I want to share something. I took action in healing ME and went to a licensed massage therapist who also happens to be a life coach and healer. It was fate (if you believe in those things) that I found her business card in front of my office door after a building fire drill. It wasn’t there before. In reality, someone probably accidentally dropped it hurrying out of the building, but I choose to believe it was meant to be. I normally wouldn’t have paid attention and just threw it away. But I looked at it. I was amazed that it appeared just as I started dealing with all this. I told her an abridged version of my life with my SP. And I said the same thing to her. That I wanted to get back to the person I was before I met him. She calmly, and with so much compassion, said that is not my goal. My goal is to be the best i can be from this point forward. To unite body mind and spirit, the parts of me that he broke. She said I had a form of PTSD and going back isn’t the path I should take. Going forward and embracing all that I am, all that i have (not what I lost), and all that I’ve experienced is the right path. And her job is to help me along the way. I cant change the past any more than i could change him. I have another session with her this week and am looking forward to it very much. Was it luck I found her? Or fate? Or answered prayers? I don’t know. All I know is the timing was perfect. I miss that girl I was, that innocent one. I am no longer her. But I will be someone just as awesome. Don’t know when…. but I’m working on it.
The healer gave you very wise advice. We can’t go back. In fact, I wouldn’t want to go back to the naive person that I was — a clueless walking target. But we can be stronger, with more wisdom and compassion, than we ever were. And that’s a good thing.
BTW – yes, your meeting with the woman was meant to be.
To answer your question, because a lot of time we, the parents, didn’t know. As a parent of a son that I now know is Phycho or Socio Challenged, it didn’t dawn on me what he really was because I never knew of such people or terms. But I’ve finally learned a lesson and a sad and hard one as he went one step too far in his last relationship. I finally was fed up. and finding this site through Google search for Narcissistic and Sociopathic personalities, I’ve learned a lot. I thought he was just a selfish, mean, manipulative, sneaky and lying person to me and many others – but now I know he has a mental illness that can never be cured. I don’t hate him, but I’ve chosen for my own health to distance myself from him and warn as many people as I can and become aware of and leave him to the Universe. There is nothing that I or anyone can do about this type of behaviour and am in the process of finally healing. from the on-going heartbreak. He has done so much hurt and damage since he was a young teenager until this time (50 years old) in his life. His second wife asked me once why I hadn’t warned her. At that time I thought maybe he found the right one, so didn’t really think about it until the break up and what he was doing in that marriage relationship. The only answer I could give her was, that she wouldn’t have believed me, and she agreed that she probably wouldn’t have. He had his victims so taken in. What a shame. and a waste of time for all these women in his life and the children he helped produce (4) as well as his family. I will continue to bring awareness in anyway I can to alert people to beware of this type of Personality Disorder, it’s the least I can do. And there is so much around us, no wonder the world is in the deplorable state it’s in!
So much more I could say, but that’s enough to get my message through. I just wish I had known sooner.
I hope it helps you in some way and to know that the only one to blame is the abuser themselves even though they don’t realize they are ill or would even admit it if they were accused, and not the victims, including the families in most cases, and I can only speak for myself, that get left in their wake!
All the Best to you. My wish for you is to find Peace within yourself.